Effective Online Communication

girlie · Post by **girlie** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:25 pm

I've only recently joined the e-Playa and have been enjoying it so far. But i must admit that i’ve found it rather depressing to see so many grown men and women communicating in such negative tones. Seems to be a very ineffective way to get your points across and build community.

May i ask that people please try pausing for a second before posting to consider whether the text of your message is really going to convey the tone and message you want to get across. And please… consider playing nicer with each other. Not everyone has to like one other, but please remember that these are not nameless faceless computer avatars behind the words on your screens – these are real people. Thanks.

I'm pulling some tips off of http://www.fullcirc.com/community/communitymanual.htm and posting them here, in case there is further interest in working with each other on this.

girlie · Post by **girlie** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:28 pm

<b>General Tips for Online Facilitation</b>

-- Assume good intent. Remind others of this simple trick.
-- Role model the behavior you wish others to use.
-- Practice and encourage active listening/reading.
-- Be as explicit as possible in your communication.
-- Don't automatically assume understanding -- ask for clarification as needed.
-- Build trust by doing what you say you will do. Encourage others to do the same.
-- Trust is slow to be granted, easily taken away. Encourage an environment that values trust.
-- Use irony and humor with care as it does not always come across online as you might have intended. You can always use emoticons to clarify!

-- Think before you hit the button and a post goes up.
-- Approach every contribution with curiosity, expecting surprise and wonder . .

(from http://www.fullcirc.com/community/facilitips.htm)

antron · Post by **antron** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:29 pm

effective communication...just another thing you can find on the eplaya...what else you got?

girlie · Post by **girlie** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:46 pm

antrony wrote:what else you got?

oh boy, i don't think we have time to get into all that i've got. :-)

seriously though, i don't mean to be a pain in the ass by bringing this up -- but i've seen so many folks here fighting instead of talking that it seemed silly not try to talk about it a bit.

those who have been here for a while and have hardened to this style of communication might not realize it, but overall the e-Playa comes across as a very unwelcoming forum. and i'm guessing it isn't really anyone's intent to be unwelcoming.

anyone else have any links to good tips to making this whole online communication thang work better for us?

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:50 pm

Were you ever on the old eplaya, girlie? I'm just wondering if, from an outsider's perspective, this new stuff is more hostile than the old one. It certainly feels that way to me.

But then again, I'm not part of the solution, now am I?

Zane5100 · Post by **Zane5100** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:55 pm

I know I'm part of the problem.

...and I like it.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:57 pm

May i ask that people please try pausing for a second before posting to consider whether the text of your message is really going to convey the tone and message you want to get across. And please… consider playing nicer with each other.

Sweet, naive child. Are you a hippie?

Most of us aren't here to play nice. Most of us are here to communicate ideas, play with opinions, and exchange thoughts about a good many things that some of us are passionate about.

Sometimes this place rocks with empathy, understanding, compassion and brilliance. Other times it can be a fucking shark tank. Both sides work for me - especially when there's a fusion of the two.

Rember what they say about that hot ol kitchen...

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:08 pm

> Sweet, naive child. Are you a hippie?

She isn't. Really. And I do think that given how incredibly hostile things
have been these past two weeks, we could consider her points.

I'm not going to stop being crotchety, mind you, and people who come in
and ask about where they can buy drugs or ask how to get out of their
possession fine are going to get an earful. But flame wars are boring.
Really boring. Tawnee Lynne almost got me to give up on the eplaya for
a while, because everywhere I turned, there was her fucktarded self.

Then again, girlie, it is a cantankerous bunch that makes up the old guard.

girlie · Post by **girlie** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:16 pm

>>Most of us are here to communicate ideas, play with opinions, and exchange thoughts about a good many things that some of us are passionate about.

I realize that that is the intent, but my point was that from a newcomers point of view many folks don't seem to be doing that very effectively. If you are happy with how you communicate certainly continue on the way you have been. I just brought this up for those who might wanna look into other ways of getting their ideas across.

>>Rember what they say about that hot ol kitchen...

Gawd, girl, as far as online stuff goes i'm use to a kitchen that's on fire 24 hours a day -- so don't you worry about me.

I *am* very interested in community building though, and for me a big part of that is being supportive towards other people (and yes, that sometimes includes coming down hard on them when appropriate). I was surprised to find that many posts in this forum seem designed to drive people away from here instead of welcoming them in.

How are you gonna be able to share your ideas and opinions if there's only a handful of people left to read them?

Zane5100 · Post by **Zane5100** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:22 pm

girlie wrote:...that sometimes includes coming down hard on them when appropriate

Funny, I think that's the same motivation behind the harsh posts when this turns into a "shark tank."

girlie · Post by **girlie** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:27 pm

Isotopia wrote:Sweet, naive child

oh, and by the way... i am not a child, nor am i very naive. though i have heard that i am, in fact, quite sweet.

Ivy · Post by **Ivy** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:27 pm

I realize that that is the intent, but my point was that from a newcomers point of view many folks don't seem to be doing that very effectively.

Kepp in mind that some newcomers aren't exempt from that, either.

I know the eplaya seems harsh and negative to a lot of people. Guess what...so does Gigsville.

I know I'm guilty of it sometimes, we all are. Personally, I try to take everything, everyperson, an a case-by-case, situation-by-situation basis, hence the reason I can bitch someone out in one thread and love them in another.

I admit I have a low tolerance for stupidity, but yet again, I keep answering the same "stupid newbie" questions over and over again without (I think) being harsh.

I think for me, it has less to do with whether you're a newbie and more to do with how you present yourself.

That said, I think there is a bit of a "hazing" process on the eplaya (I went through it myself) and I'm undecided about how I feel about that.

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:27 pm

girlie wrote:I've only recently joined the e-Playa...i’ve found it rather depressing to see so many grown men and women communicating in such negative tones. Seems to be a very ineffective way to get your points across and build community...

Nearly all of the negativity amongst long-time E-Playa contributors is due to the B.Man LLC's dumping of the old E-Playa. Most of them felt at home there despite it's few shortcomings, and are deeply frustrated with the cluttered graphics and general clunkiness of the new system interfering with their written communication.

And a few had a mixed-to-lousy time at B.Man this year and it shows through their messages.

Stick around--they'll get happier as time goes on. Especially if the BBS administrators continue to improve things. They have a lot to say that might change your mind about some fundamental things. And if you're good at stating your points you'll change some of their thinking too.

girlie wrote:...Use irony and humor with care as it does not always come across online as you might have intended. You can always use emoticons to clarify!

A decent writer's humor (or mere irony) should be obvious to a reader with even a room temperature IQ. Emoticons are tools for lazy and inept typists unwilling to work toward creating lucid written expression.

girlie · Post by **girlie** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:31 pm

>>>>that sometimes includes coming down hard on them when appropriate

>>Funny, I think that's the same motivation behind the harsh posts when this turns into a "shark tank.

So where do things go wrong? Or do most folks really see no problem with the vibe of these boards?

RebA! · Post by **RebA!** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:34 pm

Woo we have reached the "cant we all just get along stage"

I so need a nap.

girlie · Post by **girlie** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:35 pm

precipitate wrote:Were you ever on the old eplaya, girlie? I'm just wondering if, from an outsider's perspective, this new stuff is more hostile than the old one.

I was only on the old e-Playa a few times. I seem to remember a lot of pompous behaviour, and a hell of a lot of partronization, but not the outright harshness that seems to be prevalent here.

But i didn't stay long 'cuz it seemed like the kind of place where you'd need to get to know all the people first to really be able to get anything out of it. And i just didn't have the time for a new online community.

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:37 pm

girlie wrote:...I *am* very interested in community building though, and for me a big part of that is being supportive towards other people...

The main complaint from long-time residents is: if the goal is community building, why has so much been done to drive away the long-time residents? The general feeling is that the goal was simple growth in E-Playa population numbers at all costs. Hence the pandering to the lowest common denominator with a user interface that has lots of blinky attention getters and fences to keep people in place.

Do Larry et al believe that, since network TV has more viewers than Atlantic Monthly has readers, therefore network TV is better? I don't want to think that's the case.

girlie · Post by **girlie** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:45 pm

PJ wrote:The main complaint from long-time residents is: if the goal is community building, why has so much been done to drive away the long-time residents?

PJ -- thanks for explaining about the interface change. I wasn't on the old e-Playa nearly enough to get a sense of it's environment.

I can see now why the core group of posters here seem so separate from the rest.

Has anyone taken any steps to get the web team to change the format of the forums at all?

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:47 pm

girlie wrote:...i didn't stay long 'cuz it seemed like the kind of place where you'd need to get to know all the people first to really be able to get anything out of it...

It didn't take long to get useful information or wisdom out of the regulars. (As long as your question wasn't foolish, of course. "Like, where should I buy E if I, like, didn't have time to buy any before leaving home?" would result in a sarcastic reply or ten.)

But yes, hanging around awhile was necessary to learn the personality quirks of the regulars. Just like when you move to a new job, new health club, new whatever. Most everybody was worth knowing. The handful of trolls that came and went haven't shown up here yet; they needed to be ignored. And newbies always were welcome: some people that are now "regulars" didn't join until a couple of months before the burn and they fit in great. They were razzed, embraced, chided, encouraged--often in the same post. But they "got it."

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:52 pm

girlie wrote:...the interface change. I wasn't on the old e-Playa nearly enough to get a sense of it's environment.

It was flawed, but it worked very well for ongoing and drifty conversations. It was an elegant system for a "community"; less so for a newbie needing a FAQ-type answer.

girlie wrote:I can see now why the core group of posters here seem so separate from the rest.

I wouldn't say "core." "Old" applies. (But "old" can mean, "Was here part of the last year.")

girlie wrote:Has anyone taken any steps to get the web team to change the format of the forums at all?

Yes. Also, complete alternatives to this BBS are being explored privately.

Hana Hou · Post by **Hana Hou** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:53 pm

Girlie,

You ARE quite sweet - and have a helluva lot more patience than others might have.

I was GOING to post about 3 minutes ago when you first started this thread, and then looked back to 21 or something replies.

I'm relatively new to BM, and also spent probably too little time on the old eplaya to fully grok it (oh shit, now I aged myself). But I also see an awful lot of hostility both here and on another BM list that I'm on..

Dunno why, but a lot of people came home grouchy. Maybe it's still that (some) people haven't gotten back into it yet (there's another thread elsewhere talking about this, and it's affected me), maybe it's the pecking order, maybe it's just that they're grouchy...

But... You're right that there is some work that Emily Post could do here... In her absence, you've got my vote to continue what you're doing..

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:05 pm

> Has anyone taken any steps to get the web team to change the format
> of the forums at all?

Well, yeah. They solicited beta input and got some -- mostly about
functionality that really worked well in the old forums and is either
broken or missing here.

There was a conspicuous absence of "general chat" area at first, which
seemed deliberate, as it was one of the primary requests both in the old
system and for the new. But here we are using it, so I'm thinking it was
either an oversight or a battle they don't really feel like fighting.

There are a number of feature requests that address the core issues that
I have, and that I think many others share. I'm fairly confident that
given time, the web team will get to them. But as Technopatra said
somewhere (I'll be damned if I can remember where), it's a team of
volunteers, so "fixing" stuff is contingent on them having a person with
the skillset and the time.

When Mayor Jim put up a version of these forums as a test last year, I
looked through the code a bit, and several of the changes I'd like to see
I could do. Alas, I don't have the time.

herself · Post by **herself** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 5:07 pm

If anyone is brave enough to try an alpha piece of software, feel free to check out my new forum:

http://famouslibrarian.com/servlet/Login

I'm still debugging.

If your name appeared in my Playa Address List, http://famouslibrarian.com/servlet/List , you should be able to use your login from that to login to the new forum.

New users will have to create a login, there are links supplied to do so. Some links are hard to read because the colors are odd but I'll fix that soon.

There are still bugs. I will write a form for submitting bugs.

Don't know if this new forum is a viable alternative for discussion but would love to get some feedback. I was able to base most of the programming on stuff I had done for another project.

Will be offline till later tonight.

toodles
harriet

ps. many features have not been implemented yet, like tracking last read post in each thread, but I'll be adding those if it seems people like this alternative forum.

III · Post by **III** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 5:53 pm

>outright harshness

i mentioned a while back that i've noticed that i'm not as thoughtful here as i used to be on the old eplaya, and precipitate mentioned somewhere else that this format seems to be more conducive to talkit *at*, rather than with people. i think there's a measure of truth to that. it may also be that navigating the blinky stuff and extraneous visual stuff, along with trying to figure out what i've already read, what i want to ignore, and what i want to pay attention to leaves me with a mild sense of irritability that no doubt leaks over into my posts. i'm getting better at just keeping mouth shut (sometimes, at least) but i can imagine that i still contribute to the ugly parts of what's going on.

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:24 pm

Two groks in two days. WTF?

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:29 pm

III wrote:...a mild sense of irritability that no doubt leaks over into my posts. i'm getting better at just keeping mouth shut (sometimes, at least) but i can imagine that i still contribute to the ugly parts of what's going on.

In my case, keeping my mouth shut might be more of a case of apathy than anything else. All those heated discussions in the 'Experiences' forum? Seen every one of 'em before on the old E-Playa.

III · Post by **III** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:29 pm

to groks, from groks, it's all the same, isn't it?

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:59 pm

Trey, do you think it's possible to make the young calf's eyes change color (like your avatar does) while its nose is up PJs ass?

Ivy · Post by **Ivy** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:59 pm

I didn't post on the e-playa immediately after the burn last year. i didn't get involved until after the SM hangar party got shut down, sometime in November.

I know there used to be a section for "afterglow" and then for the "upcoming year."

I'm wondering is some of this just has to do with the large influx of "afterburn." Like people coming to post in lost and found, missed connections, etc. On the "old" e playa, most of these people posted once or twice, or for a short time, but didn't stick around. i admit I'm curious to see if that happens to a greater or lesser extent with this interface.

Since I didn't see much of it last year, I wonder if there was the same "negativity" in the "afterburn" sections on the "old" eplaya (how that for " " use?)

Booker · Post by **Booker** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 7:12 pm

>>-- Be as explicit as possible in your communication.

You're lookin' for the Fuck! threads. They're around here somewhere. Not that I'd know anything about that . . . .

Effective Online Communication

Effective Online Communication

General Tips for Online Facilitation

Re: Effective Online Communication