Birthers

[unjonharley]

s//
So, who is this Donold Tromp? Is that a real name? Is it true he was born to a street whore and dump in a garbage can?

This guy can ask some far out questions.. Why can't I?

He's at that birther shit again.. I saw part of his crap from Fl.

I did not have a birth certific until I was 17.. Some one messed up.. I had to find the mid wife for a statement.. She passed away three days later. It wasn''t enough that I was listed in family bibles.. My brother was listed in both father and mothers side family bible. Also the county but three diferent dates.. All in a row.. So he get drunk for three day each year..

Whats tat big flap over Obama being hatched in the Islands

[theCryptofishist]

I'm sure that a good percentage of american birth certificates are irregular in one way or another. Or could be construed that way. It's racism, pure and simple, desperately trying to find a way to ignore the truth they don't like.
Pretty fucking human, I know, but really pathetic.

[lucky420]

yep what fishy said...

[Elderberry]

If that's pretty human, can you please tell me how I can resign my membership to humanity?

[MisaBlue]

I'm sure that a good percentage of american birth certificates are irregular in one way or another. Or could be construed that way. It's racism, pure and simple, desperately trying to find a way to ignore the truth they don't like.
Pretty fucking human, I know, but really pathetic.

Fishy, can you explain this to me? Do you mean they are not reall, that people fake them?

[AntiM]

Small mistakes are made and not corrected. My fancy certificate has me named as Baby Girl Castle. Fortunately, my county one is alright.

[Elderberry]

Let me give you an example of what I think fishy means. My grandfather was actually born on a ship when his parents were immigrating here from Russia. He never had a birth certificate and we never even knew his official birth date because it was never recorded. It never gave him any problems until it was time to retire and collect social security it took quite awhile to get that worked through.

Also, in many small towns, those records used to be kept by the church in file boxes. Sometimes they were destroyed by floods or fires and the original records were lost forever.

Those types of things don't happen as much anymore with today's more modern record keeping systems.

[lonestoner916]

When I was born I was given my mother's maiden name, unbeknownst to my father, who was drinking in a bar somewhere. Shorty afterwards my parents split up. All through school, up until I was a sophmore in High School I used my father's last name. When I landed my first real job and needed a birth certificate I learned the truth. On paper there is NO record of any of my education.

[Sic Pup]

I don't know the particulars because anyone who might know is gone but we always celebrated a birthday and an "unbirthday" for my dad.

Somewhere along the line they found out what he always thought to be his birthday really wasn't.


When my paternal ancestors got to Ellis Island they changed an "o" to an "a" turning what was typically an Italian surname into a more typically Spanish one. I receive a lot of junk mail and phone soliciations geared towards Hispanics most in Spanish, in fact, one of my daughters just received an unsolicited copy of "Latina" magazine yesterday.

Doesn't matter to me as I answer to anything, just don't call me late for dinner.

[ygmir]

I'm sure that a good percentage of american birth certificates are irregular in one way or another. Or could be construed that way. It's racism, pure and simple, desperately trying to find a way to ignore the truth they don't like.
Pretty fucking human, I know, but really pathetic.

This part, I don't understand.

[Elderberry]

I'm sure that a good percentage of american birth certificates are irregular in one way or another. Or could be construed that way. It's racism, pure and simple, desperately trying to find a way to ignore the truth they don't like.
Pretty fucking human, I know, but really pathetic.

This part, I don't understand.

The fact that Obama is black is the underlying reason for all of the attacks against him. But since that isn't 'politically correct', let's find some other lunacy as the "true" reason for not liking him. This might even be subliminal motivation for many of those acusing him of not being born here or not being a Christian or whatever other over the top nonsensical accusations being made.

To clarify "all of the attacks" I do not mean legitimate political disagreements. I am specifically referring to all of the irrational attacks based on fear and racism, conscious or not.


Now we know why Obama doesn't have a birth certificate.
(the person that originally sent this to friends in an email had 'no idea' it had any racial connotations. She was the head of the republican party in orange county.)

[dr.placebo]

To be honest, Democrats can be pretty irrational as well.

What I find the most dangerous part of this whole mess is not that there are bigots who vote, but that highly placed Republicans are courting them. For example, what rational reason did Huckabee have for stating that Obama grew up in Kenya? It was not, as some claimed, a simple slip of the tongue, since the exchange went like this:

HUCKABEE: I would love to know more. What I know is troubling enough. And one thing that I do know is his having grown up in Kenya, his view of the Brits, for example, very different than the average American. When he gave the bust back to the Brits –

MALZBERG: Of Winston Churchill.

HUCKABEE: The bust of Winston Churchill, a great insult to the British. But then if you think about it, his perspective as growing up in Kenya with a Kenyan father and grandfather, their view of the Mau Mau Revolution in Kenya is very different than ours because he probably grew up hearing that the British were a bunch of imperialists who persecuted his grandfather.

In other words, Huckabee states that Obama grew up in Kenya, implies that he dislikes the British and deliberately snubbed them (a discredited Glenn Beck theory, http://mediamatters.org/blog/201103020011), uses the "Mau Mau" code words to tie Obama to a violent rebellion, and finally pretends falsely that this was not at all what he meant. See http://mediamatters.org/blog/201103030017 for more details.

My opinion is that Huckabee said this to burnish his reputation among the racist wacko wing of his party. That he felt motivated to do so should be an embarrassment to Republicans, just as the much more overt racism of the Dixiecrats should have been shameful to Democrats.

The American Civil War. 150 years and counting.

[Elderberry]

Usually when democrats are irrational, it tends to be a bit more benign...like hugging trees, or protecting some obscure fly or beetle, rather than killing abortion providers or trying to get creationism into science textbooks thereby undermining our preeminence in the world, or requiring a birth certificate to register to vote, thereby preventing minorities from voting.

[ygmir]

I don't buy the statement that the reason people are against, or "attack" Obama is because he's part black.
I think he/they (his political machine) try to use that, to deflect derogatory ideas.

Find me a politician, especially at or near that level, who is not criticized, constantly, on any issue, or minutia associated, let alone any decision, former associations, and on a nearly constant level.

I'm sure, some people have a problem with his skin.
But, some have a problem with people from "the south" or "texas" or,
Portland............or gender, or religion.......ad infinitum.......

[Elderberry]

I don't buy the statement that the reason people are against, or "attack" Obama is because he's part black.
I think he/they (his political machine) try to use that, to deflect derogatory ideas.

Find me a politician, especially at or near that level, who is not criticized, constantly, on any issue, or minutia associated, let alone any decision, former associations, and on a nearly constant level.

I'm sure, some people have a problem with his skin.
But, some have a problem with people from "the south" or "texas" or,
Portland............or gender, or religion.......ad infinitum.......

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

[Eric]

Usually when democrats are irrational, it tends to be a bit more benign...

That would be the current Democrats- before Nixon's "Southern Strategy" most of the anti-Civil rights people in the South were Democrats ("Southern Democrats", but Dems nonetheless). Southern Democrats led the secession movement before the Civil War and were decidedly pro-slavery (Northern Democrats of the same period were opposed to slavery). Just because a party seems "benign" now doesn't mean it always was.

Never forget, the slaves were freed by a Republican.

Yggy- John McCain was IN FACT not born in the United States (he was born in the Panama Canal Zone before it was recognized as US Territory. Later legislation rectified that). No one ever brought it up. Barack Obama's legal "Certificate of Live Birth" from Hawaii was released, and it's valid, just like every other citizen of Hawaii. Never has any other elected government official from Hawaii been questioned on their legitimacy to serve just because it's against Hawaiian state law to release the long-form birth certificate. Every Congressman & Senator from Hawaii uses the exact same form of legal proof of residency, yet not one of them is questioned. It is not a legitimate question, it is not "minutia", it is an attack based on lies & distortions led by the losing party in the last Presidential election.

[ygmir]

Usually when democrats are irrational, it tends to be a bit more benign...like hugging trees, or protecting some obscure fly or beetle, rather than killing abortion providers or trying to get creationism into science textbooks thereby undermining our preeminence in the world, or requiring a birth certificate to register to vote, thereby preventing minorities from voting.

or spiking trees, destroying private property, etc.

wasn't Ted kaczynski a democrat?
Although, i'd say it more accurate, to use left/right wing to denote politics, since, both parties are pretty interchangeable.

I'd bet, plenty of bad stuff, has been perpetrated by people on "the left".
ELF
ALF
ANC (Mandella et al) (on the world stage)
Weathermen.
Black Panthers.
(historical)

Just sayin, there's plenty of "nuts" in the tree...........

how about, just calling "nuts", "nuts".......and, not painting a whole segment of society, with whom they may share a passing association or small amount of shared philosophy, with that big ol' brush on generalization?

[theCryptofishist]

I'm sure that a good percentage of american birth certificates are irregular in one way or another. Or could be construed that way. It's racism, pure and simple, desperately trying to find a way to ignore the truth they don't like.
Pretty fucking human, I know, but really pathetic.

Fishy, can you explain this to me? Do you mean they are not reall, that people fake them?

No, that there are fields aren't filled in, spelling mistakes, other mistakes--nothing serious, but plenty of fodder if you're going to make something of it. I found Unjon's examples interesting, although I'm guessing that sort of thing is rare for children born today. I guess I don't have much trust in the human animal's ability to fill out bureaucratic forms...

[ygmir]

Usually when democrats are irrational, it tends to be a bit more benign...

That would be the current Democrats- before Nixon's "Southern Strategy" most of the anti-Civil rights people in the South were Democrats ("Southern Democrats", but Dems nonetheless). Southern Democrats led the secession movement before the Civil War and were decidedly pro-slavery (Northern Democrats of the same period were opposed to slavery). Just because a party seems "benign" now doesn't mean it always was.

Never forget, the slaves were freed by a Republican.

Yggy- John McCain was IN FACT not born in the United States (he was born in the Panama Canal Zone before it was recognized as US Territory. Later legislation rectified that). No one ever brought it up. Barack Obama's legal "Certificate of Live Birth" from Hawaii was released, and it's valid, just like every other citizen of Hawaii. Never has any other elected government official from Hawaii been questioned on their legitimacy to serve just because it's against Hawaiian state law to release the long-form birth certificate. Every Congressman & Senator from Hawaii uses the exact same form of legal proof of residency, yet not one of them is questioned. It is not a legitimate question, it is not "minutia", it is an attack based on lies & distortions led by the losing party in the last Presidential election.

I'd wonder, though, had McCain been elected, would it have become an issue, where he was born?
I don't remember birth status being brought up during the election.
and, I don't see that attack as being based on skin color.
True, it may well be "malcontents" but, I don't see race playing into it. That's my point. I don't think it comes from race, as eluded to by JK.


but, I just don't see or agree with using the "race card" as a legitimate way to deflect criticism, whether rational, deserved, or not.

[theCryptofishist]

I'm sure that a good percentage of american birth certificates are irregular in one way or another. Or could be construed that way. It's racism, pure and simple, desperately trying to find a way to ignore the truth they don't like.
Pretty fucking human, I know, but really pathetic.

This part, I don't understand.

I think that if Obama were "white" that the birth certificate wouldn't be a focus for those who are so discontented. There was plenty of whispering and muttering about Clinton, but it didn't take that form.
And then there's that woman who sent out a "joke" email of Obama as a member of a family of apes, and doesn't understand why people aren't laughing. (I do wonder what she thought of those pictures of GWB as a monkey...Did she laugh? I did and now I'm having to rethink that...)

Edited to add: And JK beat me to that pic.

[theCryptofishist]

I don't think Kaczinski had any political affiliations.

[ygmir]

I'm sure that a good percentage of american birth certificates are irregular in one way or another. Or could be construed that way. It's racism, pure and simple, desperately trying to find a way to ignore the truth they don't like.
Pretty fucking human, I know, but really pathetic.

This part, I don't understand.

I think that if Obama were "white" that the birth certificate wouldn't be a focus for those who are so discontented. There was plenty of whispering and muttering about Clinton, but it didn't take that form.
And then there's that woman who sent out a "joke" email of Obama as a member of a family of apes, and doesn't understand why people aren't laughing. (I do wonder what she thought of those pictures of GWB as a monkey...Did she laugh? I did and now I'm having to rethink that...)

Edited to add: And JK beat me to that pic.

yeah interesting.........to me, though, the "birther" thing, is not about, or the result of, his race. IMO, it's coming from folks who "lost" and, can't accept that, so, are grasping at straws to find a way to reverse an outcome, that to which they disagree.

And, yeah, it's gotta be something, to have laughed at all the picks of GWB as and near monkeys.....but be pissed when it's Obama.......
and, good on ya, for at least re-considering your thoughts.
I for one, enjoy laughing at and teasing any politician, PC or not, if it's a joke about them, and I find it funny, I giggle.

Heck, "they've" (politicians) always been targets for rank, unfair, and hurtful jokes.

[unjonharley]

I'm sure that a good percentage of american birth certificates are irregular in one way or another. Or could be construed that way. It's racism, pure and simple, desperately trying to find a way to ignore the truth they don't like.
Pretty fucking human, I know, but really pathetic.

.

Fishy, can you explain this to me? Do you mean they are not reall, that people fake them?

No, that there are fields aren't filled in, spelling mistakes, other mistakes--nothing serious, but plenty of fodder if you're going to make something of it. I found Unjon's examples interesting, although I'm guessing that sort of thing is rare for children born today. I guess I don't have much trust in the human animal's ability to fill out bureaucratic forms...

Just watch a bunch of low payed data input people in an office run on donuts.

I spent weeks working on a 60 foot boom.. Then sent it over seas.. It was off 6 inches at the padocks.. Two weeks to find the mistake.. Data input struck a S instead of a 5.. That was back in the old Unavac days. Still cost a quarter mill to fix. Computer tecks were getting 60 buck an hour then. Tow of them for two weeks. With20 tons of scrape metal fabed, fit & tack,(myjob) welded, broke down and shiped and reassebled..

How many tired stroke are made each day for records in this county

[Elderberry]

No way to prove this, but I'd bet that had McCain won, his birth certificate would never have become an issue. It has never been an issue before with any other president or candidate. Why this one? Just the fact that the other side lost certainly doesn't explain it.

[Elderberry]

(I do wonder what she thought of those pictures of GWB as a monkey...Did she laugh? I did and now I'm having to rethink that...)

Doesn't take a whole lot of thinking. GWB was a white guy, and monkeys have a different connotation and history when they are used to portray a white guy than they do when portraying a black guy. For the white guy portrayed as a monkey the meaning is he is silly or stupid. For the black guy it is implying he is subhuman.

[ygmir]

No way to prove this, but I'd bet that had McCain won, his birth certificate would never have become an issue. It has never been an issue before with any other president or candidate. Why this one? Just the fact that the other side lost certainly doesn't explain it.

I disagree. but as you say, it's moot.

perhaps, it's never been an issue, because, well, it's never been an issue.
Maybe, all former prez's and candidates were born on U.S. soil?
interesing, that both could have that in common, in theory, anyway.
can you say "Manchuria"?..........hahahaa
There are those who would say, people disagreed, or made fun of JFK because he was Catholic.........

And, I'd say, because "the other side" lost, exactly explains it:
They're looking for ANYTHING to reverse what they don't agree with.
and, I'd bet, if the shoe was on the other foot it'd be the same....just different faces, pro and con.

Since when, has not "the loser" looked for anything they can find, to overturn a vote they disagree with?
Didn't the final, long after the fact re-counts in Florida disprove the accusations against "the winners"?
Could not the "hanging chad" debate, be somewhat similar?
in that, the losers grasp at whatever they can, to "win"?

Cripes. if he's eligible, and, you believe it, why care what others say about it?
If not worried, why does it matter?

Doesn't take a whole lot of thinking. GWB was a white guy, and monkeys have a different connotation and history when they are used to portray a white guy than they do when portraying a black guy. For the white guy portrayed as a monkey the meaning is he is silly or stupid. For the black guy it is implying he is subhuman.

no, realy?
that's pretty shallow, JK.
totally debatable, the context.
how do you know, they weren't implying the prez is silly or stupid?
and, how do you know, they didn't mean GWB was not sub human?

sure, there are people in both camps......but, why always accuse those you disagree with, of the worst possible thoughts and inferences?

and, why can't something be non pc, and funny?

I dunno, just seem a "tempest in a teapot" in the whole scheme of things.

[unjonharley]

No way to prove this, but I'd bet that had McCain won, his birth certificate would never have become an issue. It has never been an issue before with any other president or candidate. Why this one? Just the fact that the other side lost certainly doesn't explain it.

Shit, WE had Hitlers SS build our rockets to the moon..

Back to the stupid Trump.
Evening news.. He wants us to take the oil by force.. It's not the oil fields or the gas crackers that robbing us. It's wall street.. I'll be there when it falls flat.. Do your think I will feed one of those bastards??

[Elderberry]

JFK was an interesting president to bring into this. I was pretty young when he was elected, but I remember my parents discussing the fact that he was catholic. The worry was that if a catholic was elected that the pope would be making all the calls.

Proved not to be the case. Then he was shot.

[TomServo]

The right is good at "Grabbing at Straws!" In a way, I appreciate it! I thought the Daily Show and Colbert would be boring, after Obama won.

[dr.placebo]

I'd say that Trump has the principles of an alley cat, but the cat might sue me for slander. He has changed his position so many times he looks like a porn film on fast forward. See:

http://www.slate.com/id/2291263/