So this is how liberty dies...

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:12 pm

It seems Misa's link demonstrates perfectly the fact that Government and Liberty are diametrically opposed.

Sic Pup · Post by **Sic Pup** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:09 pm

jkisha wrote:Actually, they are giving away half or more of their worth and encouraging others to do the same.

Well sort of:

"The Giving Pledge is an effort to invite the wealthiest individuals and families in America to commit to giving the majority of their wealth to the philanthropic causes and charitable organizations of their choice either during their lifetime or after their death.

Each person who chooses to pledge will make this statement publicly, along with a letter explaining their decision to pledge. At an annual event, those who take the pledge will come together to share ideas and learn from each other.

The Pledge is a moral commitment to give, not a legal contract. It does not involve pooling money or supporting a particular set of causes or organizations.

While the Giving Pledge is specifically focused on billionaires, the idea takes its inspiration from efforts in the past and at present that encourage and recognize givers of all financial means and backgrounds. We are inspired by the example set by millions of Americans who give generously (and often at great personal sacrifice) to make the world a better place. "

Individual pledges are here.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:02 pm

MisaBlue · Post by **MisaBlue** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:01 am

ygmir wrote:I'd say, JK, she's trying to post to the actual thread topic.
And, it is spot on, regarding that.

Dang Misa, did they really do that?
These days?

wow, I had heard, rumors, that the former communists are making inroads into eastern Europe again........

Oh, yes, i was referring to the name of the thread...sorry, should mention that.

I was just so shock/angry about what happened. The military just came in the public tv with guns and not only to the office of that one particular journalist but to other offices as well...with no objective reason...they just took all the notes and computers (some of them were private)...I think they just wanted to see what the journalists are working on and of course to show they are fucking strong. After that two politicians said it was mistake, so they are sorry...that is insane!!!

And with the communists..yes, they are rising again and that is scary!

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:55 pm

No brown-bag lunches in Chicago;
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookou ... food-fight

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:04 am

Suppose instead of pooling our money to put a man on the moon, we sent that money back to the taxpayers in hope that one of them would apply that money into their own private space program.
Apollo cost: $170 billion ($170,000,000,000).
US population in 1970: 203,211,926
Use a sharp #2 pencil.

$836.57 per taxpaying citizen.
That would basically fill up your pickup truck with fireworks, but Neil Armstrong would still be a test pilot.

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:10 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:Suppose instead of pooling our money to put a man on the moon, we sent that money back to the taxpayers in hope that one of them would apply that money into their own private space program.
Apollo cost: $170 billion ($170,000,000,000).
US population in 1970: 203,211,926
Use a sharp #2 pencil.
$836.57 per taxpaying citizen.
That would basically fill up your pickup truck with fireworks, but Neil Armstrong would still be a test pilot.

I think there are at least two private space ventures already. Most of the money spent by the government for space exploration is actaully justified for military, technical, medical and scientific applications that are usually spawned by such ventures.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:41 pm

True; it's just a thought experiment.

I like the idea of having $800 worth of fireworks in the back of my truck.

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:49 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:True; it's just a thought experiment.

I like the idea of having $800 worth of fireworks in the back of my truck.

I can appreciate that.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:06 pm

jkisha wrote:I think there are at least two private space ventures already. Most of the money spent by the government for space exploration is actaully justified for military, technical, medical and scientific applications that are usually spawned by such ventures.

Yeah, don't forget, the space shuttle program had quite a few "secret, classified shuttle missions" back in the early days... a lot of folk forgot about those, but it was a way of justifying the huge cost of putting those birds (shuttles, not *those* birds) up there and keeping them going all these years... now that the program is ending, I wonder what will replace them...

Probably "Secret, classified missions". Except aren't most of the common heavy lift vehicles in... um... Russia and China???

THERE'S the rub...

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:23 pm

x-37b

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:49 pm

Unhappy in Ohio;

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:31 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:Suppose instead of pooling our money to put a man on the moon, we sent that money back to the taxpayers in hope that one of them would apply that money into their own private space program.
Apollo cost: $170 billion ($170,000,000,000).
US population in 1970: 203,211,926
Use a sharp #2 pencil.
$836.57 per taxpaying citizen.
That would basically fill up your pickup truck with fireworks, but Neil Armstrong would still be a test pilot.

It seems to me a fair investment for the future of mankind. Our gubmint BORROWS $170Billion every every 50 days! So what's the BFD?

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:05 pm

can't sit still wrote:Unhappy in Ohio;

He was in a doc I watched about voter fraud and the dibold machines.

Cant remember the name of the doc, but they showed counties with 1000s of votes more than there were registered voters in those counties.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:24 pm

Found it!

I think it's a "must see".

[youtube][/youtube]

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:30 pm

DIEBOLD....during the 2004 election, the HEAD of the Ohio GOP and OWNER of DIEBOLD promised Ohio to bush..

until 3:30 pm est....we had ohio won...then we started getting all kinds of screwy returns from cuyahoga county and other key voting districts...precincts with 90% black votes coming in 65% for bush....seriously...

anyway, Kerry got Fucked....all part of the game....water under the bridge.

never forget, though.

BBadger · Post by **BBadger** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:32 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Yeah, don't forget, the space shuttle program had quite a few "secret, classified shuttle missions" back in the early days... a lot of folk forgot about those, but it was a way of justifying the huge cost of putting those birds (shuttles, not *those* birds) up there and keeping them going all these years... now that the program is ending, I wonder what will replace them...

Probably "Secret, classified missions". Except aren't most of the common heavy lift vehicles in... um... Russia and China???

I doubt the Shuttle had many missions for military or classified purposes. It'd be a huge waste of resources to use it because it's meant for sending humans up into space, not just cargo. So the Shuttle gets a bulky jet-shaped design, extra life-support cargo, and a bunch of humanoid water balloons to transport to space and back, rather than just burn up after delivery, which would cost less. The Shuttle program is the "human" side of the space program that people get to see, along with other hokey projects like the ISS which accomplish little.

As for the military and classified launches, most are launched using unmanned expendable launch vehicles like the (for heavy payloads) Titan IV, Atlas V, and Delta IV rockets. They carry useful loads of around 20,000kg, which is usually enough for most military purposes.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:22 am

Trishntek wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:Suppose instead of pooling our money to put a man on the moon, we sent that money back to the taxpayers in hope that one of them would apply that money into their own private space program.
Apollo cost: $170 billion ($170,000,000,000).
US population in 1970: 203,211,926
Use a sharp #2 pencil.
$836.57 per taxpaying citizen.
That would basically fill up your pickup truck with fireworks, but Neil Armstrong would still be a test pilot.
It seems to me a fair investment for the future of mankind. Our gubmint BORROWS $170Billion every every 50 days! So what's the BFD?

Yes! My point is that a lot can be accomplished by pooling resources.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:53 am

I've been on base for some of the classified shuttle missions.
I recall quite a few.
The way it works is that everything operates the same, except for being given information about the payload and mission.
After the launch, all the many cameras continue to play until some point which it is decided will give away too much information.
Then the screens go black and they replay the launch videos over again.

The shuttle is much more cargo truck than people space.

Smaller rockets didn't have the same weight capacity, but another issue is size.
The shuttle cargo bay is quite large.

I can't address the military and nsa satellites for obvious reasons.
Much of what is available is in Bamford's books.

Did you know both usa and ussr had manned surveillance stations in space at one time?

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:14 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:True; it's just a thought experiment.

I like the idea of having $800 worth of fireworks in the back of my truck.

increase that by 15 - 50 times...someone elses truck with the cdl & hazmat endorsement... and we are having REAL FUN

someone elses money, but I get to light them!!

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:35 am

Seeing and feeling millions of pounds of thermite burning is why I go to launches, besides the obvious interest in the science.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:35 am

Could'nt find this song on youtube, but I like the lyrics.

http://www.joshwoodward.com/song/WrongS ... Revolution

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:39 am

gyre wrote:Did you know both usa and ussr had manned surveillance stations in space at one time?

To clarify, that one time being the sixties.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sat May 07, 2011 3:26 pm

The Clean Water Act was recently amended to give GOV control of ALL drainages. It looks like the EPA will get ultimate control. ANY water that might run or connect to any other body of water will be under the jurisdiction of the EPA and army Corps. Your swimming pool is supposedly safe.
http://www.naturalnews.com/032278_water ... s_EPA.html
I have a friend in New Mexico who had a well drilled and a pump installed. GOV showed up 2 weeks alter and put a meter on it,,, and charges her. Another friend in Texas is forbidden from using his well. He has to use surface water.
There is expected to be a lot of strife over water in the near future.
http://www.bluegold-worldwaterwars.com/

Mulholland coined the phrase, "whiskey is for fighting,,, water is for killing"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Water_Wars

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sat May 14, 2011 5:10 pm

Well the courts have been busy. "Overturning a common law dating back to the English Magna Carta of 1215, the Indiana Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Hoosiers have no right to resist unlawful police entry into their homes."
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/govt ... 29697.html
"We believe ... a right to resist an unlawful police entry into a home is against public policy and is incompatible with modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence," Judge David said.
AHH, so a modern interpretation of the fourth amendment says,,,, "you have no rights".

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sun May 15, 2011 10:35 am

War without end??
http://www.aclu.org/new-authorization-w ... ithout-end

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sun May 15, 2011 9:27 pm

There is an interesting senate bill, S. 3081
"It describes how anyone considered "an enemy belligerent" can be detained indefinitely without trail. It makes no distinction between US citizens, who thought the US Constitution provided some protection of their rights, and non-citizens. You need only to be suspected of activity and designated a threat for the full weight of this bill to put you under the jail ... pretty much forever."
http://rofasix.blogspot.com/2010/03/s-3 ... -free.html
This sounds EXACTLY like a witch hunt. You're suspected of thinking of doing something wrong. They lock you up and throw away the key.
This is a well-traveled roadmap. When empires collapse, they try to change to a police state.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun May 15, 2011 11:56 pm

LOL where have you been all this time since 9/11? Can you say "Patriot Act"? haven't read the bill, but I'll bet it's tame by comparison.

BTW if you're not happy about the legislation, why not go here and let your voice be heard http://www.popvox.com ? I'll read the bill tomorrow and be sure to voice my opinion where it at least stands a chance of counting.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Mon May 16, 2011 7:43 am

JK, the Patriot act seems to have some "sunset" provisions. This senate bill would not have them,,, presumably.
This from the JBS,, April 21.

Oppose Patriot Act Extension, Round 5

"Currently there are nine different bills introduced in Congress, three in the House and six in the Senate, that would extend the provisions of the Patriot Act for one to three years. Four of the Senate bills are already out of committee and scheduled for a vote on the General Calendar. One that sees much press but has no co-sponsors is Sen. Patrick Leahyâ€™s (D-Vt.) S. 193: USA PATRIOT Act Sunset Extension Act of 2011, and is a likely vehicle for furthering the dictates of the original Patriot Act. "

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Tue May 17, 2011 8:19 pm

I heard the supreme court ruled today that cops don't need a warrent anymore to barge into your house if "they believe" evadence is being destroyed.

I don't want to depend on what "they believe"!!!!!!!!