Birthers

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:57 am

theCryptofishist wrote:Sorry, JK, I'm not good at this.

What gets me is that it was all "why doesn't he show us the birth certificate? he must have something to hide." And he showed us the paper, and there seems to have been nothing there, at least I didn't hear a big media "aha!" And then it's "show us the transcripts" (and I have to guess that Donald Trumps are much more embarrassing, why doesn't anyone say anything about that?) And then it's "he must have something to hide." Yeah, what's next? Marriage certificate? High School Diploma? Book reports from 3rd grade? How long does this absurd fishing expedition last? When do people start saying "All the other paper he showed us was clean, maybe we should stop?"
Is this really how we want our president to spend his time? Aren't there more important things he could be doing?

Whan a person is BARRY SOETORO as a child in Indonesia and BARACK OBAMA before and after childhood, does that not raise eyebrows just a little bit? When did his name change? WHY was his name changed? Again, unlike anyone in history, this President has more convolutions and disjointed "facts" in his past than anyone in my experience. But many of you say, "He's BLACK! None of that matters!"

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:59 am

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:02 am

ygmir wrote:

..............................................................Barren

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:02 am

Trishntek wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:Sorry, JK, I'm not good at this.

What gets me is that it was all "why doesn't he show us the birth certificate? he must have something to hide." And he showed us the paper, and there seems to have been nothing there, at least I didn't hear a big media "aha!" And then it's "show us the transcripts" (and I have to guess that Donald Trumps are much more embarrassing, why doesn't anyone say anything about that?) And then it's "he must have something to hide." Yeah, what's next? Marriage certificate? High School Diploma? Book reports from 3rd grade? How long does this absurd fishing expedition last? When do people start saying "All the other paper he showed us was clean, maybe we should stop?"
Is this really how we want our president to spend his time? Aren't there more important things he could be doing?
Whan a person is BARRY SOETORO as a child in Indonesia and BARACK OBAMA before and after childhood, does that not raise eyebrows just a little bit? When did his name change? WHY was his name changed? Again, unlike anyone in history, this President has more convolutions and disjointed "facts" in his past than anyone in my experience. But many of you say, "He's BLACK! None of that matters!"

Obama had a Indonesia passport. Even if he was born in Hawaii, didn't he give up his claim when his mother married the Indonesian and they all became Indonesian citizens? Why does no one question this...?

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:20 am

Jesus fucking Christ, you people all have a screw lose somewhere. SOETORO was his step father's name and his stepfather used that name when enrolling his stepson in school. Stop it with all your conspiratorial bullshit already and just accept the fact that Barack Hussein Obama is a NATIVE BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bi ... dental.asp

I'm out of this thread. This time I mean it.

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:21 am

jkisha wrote:Jesus fucking Christ, you people all have a screw lose somewhere. SOETORO was his step father's name and his stepfather used that name when enrolling his stepson in school. Stop it with all your conspiratorial bullshit already and just accept the fact that Barack Hussein Obama is a NATIVE BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bi ... dental.asp

I'm out of this thread. This time I mean it.

Ya got to wonder who has the blind faith here....

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:23 am

theCryptofishist wrote:Sorry, JK, I'm not good at this.

What gets me is that it was all "why doesn't he show us the birth certificate? he must have something to hide." And he showed us the paper, and there seems to have been nothing there, at least I didn't hear a big media "aha!" And then it's "show us the transcripts" (and I have to guess that Donald Trumps are much more embarrassing, why doesn't anyone say anything about that?) And then it's "he must have something to hide." Yeah, what's next? Marriage certificate? High School Diploma? Book reports from 3rd grade? How long does this absurd fishing expedition last? When do people start saying "All the other paper he showed us was clean, maybe we should stop?"
Is this really how we want our president to spend his time? Aren't there more important things he could be doing?

No need to apologize, thanks for trying. Nobody can be good at arguing with irrational conspiracy theorists. Time to let them wallow in their own insanity.

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:27 am

irrational conspiracy theorists

Do you realize that the legal definition of conspiracy is when two or more conspire against a third?

This happens all the fucking time...

Why is is irrational? Seems fucking rational to expect it rather than deny it.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:41 am

Donna Matrix wrote:irrational conspiracy theorists

Do you realize that the legal definition of conspiracy is when two or more conspire against a third?

This happens all the fucking time...

Why is is irrational? Seems fucking rational to expect it rather than deny it.

Like i said earlier stick to your sewing and costume making. It's definitely your strong suit.

Donna Matrix · Post by **Donna Matrix** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:47 am

jkisha wrote:Like i said earlier stick to your sewing and costume making. It's definitely your strong suit.

And who are YOU to tell ME what to do?

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:53 am

jkisha wrote:I need help! JStep, where are you?

HHEEERRREEEEE I come to save the day!

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:55 am

Trishntek wrote:
Whan a person is BARRY SOETORO as a child in Indonesia and BARACK OBAMA before and after childhood, does that not raise eyebrows just a little bit? When did his name change? WHY was his name changed? Again, unlike anyone in history, this President has more convolutions and disjointed "facts" in his past than anyone in my experience. But many of you say, "He's BLACK! None of that matters!"

That is a patently silly argument. No one has ever said that.

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:58 am

Again:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/03 ... ris-mooney

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:03 am

JStep wrote:
Trishntek wrote:
Whan a person is BARRY SOETORO as a child in Indonesia and BARACK OBAMA before and after childhood, does that not raise eyebrows just a little bit? When did his name change? WHY was his name changed? Again, unlike anyone in history, this President has more convolutions and disjointed "facts" in his past than anyone in my experience. But many of you say, "He's BLACK! None of that matters!"
That is a patently silly argument. No one has ever said that.

I think TnT was using JK's "by implication" thing against him there.
No, no one has really said that.
JK seems to imply, that if you hack on BO, you must be racist. Or, that's the flavor I get from it.
Any, and every prez, is subject to wild accusation and innuendo......

(Bush I flying in an SR71 to Iran to make "the deal" so Reagan could be elected, etc, etc.)

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:26 am

ygmir wrote:
JStep wrote:
Trishntek wrote:
Whan a person is BARRY SOETORO as a child in Indonesia and BARACK OBAMA before and after childhood, does that not raise eyebrows just a little bit? When did his name change? WHY was his name changed? Again, unlike anyone in history, this President has more convolutions and disjointed "facts" in his past than anyone in my experience. But many of you say, "He's BLACK! None of that matters!"
That is a patently silly argument. No one has ever said that.
JK seems to imply, that if you hack on BO, you must be racist.

No, that was not what I said at all, and certainly didnt mean to imply it either.

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:39 pm

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:
JStep wrote: That is a patently silly argument. No one has ever said that.
JK seems to imply, that if you hack on BO, you must be racist.

No, that was not what I said at all, and certainly didnt mean to imply it either.

Thanks, When I read ygmir's post (love ya guy, but really...) I just gave up. It's hard to keep going when no matter how clearly and explicitly you explain something, the doggedly tenacious refuse to see it.

Nothing JK has said implies anything like what you said. Neither do my posts here.

Just reading through the thread shows the absurdity:

Obama wont show his birth certificate, why?

Well because it's against Hawaiian law to release it.

Obama went to the trouble, to finally release the birth certificate but it's a fake!

Well, no it's not, as proven by ample evidence.

Why did Obama have a different name in school.

Well, he didn't, it was his step fathers name when enrolling him.

Obama should prove how he got into the Ivy League, his transcripts are fake.

It just goes on and on, going further and further out on the limb of insanity. These constant delegitimizing efforts are desperate. And no, no other president has been subject to such far out criticism of such a provably irrational nature *and had it actually gain and maintain traction in the public dialog*.

I know the apologists will refuse to see the double standard... just as doggedly as they seek any reason, no matter how far out, to cast doubt that Omaba is really one of "us". No matter how much evidence you show them, no matter how bankrupt their own info sources, they will continue to believe (or at least entertain the notion) that Barrack Obama is a foreign born marxist muslim terrorist plant and the newspapers and hospital in Hawaii conspired together decades ago to fake the birth of this child so they could raise him up and make him president some day in an evil plot to reform Americas broken medical system. Or something equally stupid.

The most obvious answer is usually the correct one. In this case, the question is "why?..." Latent, unconscious, bigotry seems to be the most obvious answer. It could be something else, but nothing else makes real sense or fits the bill so perfectly. Whole sections of the population have completely changed their views on economic priorities and policies and the only real historic difference is we have our first president with brown skin.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:57 pm

interesting schism:

JK:
I totally realize and understand the first part:

No, that was not what I said at all, and certainly didnt mean to imply it either.

but it's interesting, that, I glean from the way you accuse others of racism for "attacking" (or whatever verb fits), Obama, that, you are implying they are racially motivated in their attacks.

All I've been saying, all along, is that there are those who question and attack on any and every point, not because they are racist, but, because they just don't like him.
It seems somewhere, I've said that, and also acknowledged that there certainly are racial motives, for SOME of the people.

I still see or feel anyway, you using "the race card" in his defense, more than I think is warranted.

I saw you guys (the left) shred bush over all sorts of things...intellect, military service, "nucular" (hahaha, that one is dang funny, though), religion, drugs, alcohol, etc.........some of the stupidest attacks and unwarranted.
Mostly, I just see it as "it's the other guy, so, golves off, vs. he's our guy, trust him and give him a break"

Not even saying that's not ok, in that, if you are a partisan, then, it's natural you'd be that way.

seems the same defenses and such, came up with Clinton........
"oh, no one should look into his real estate dealings, how good an investor Hillary is in cattle, what he does in the bathroom with an aid, etc, etc."
I remember screams of unprecedented investigation, even then.

I have no sympathy for any of the oval office'ites........ream 'em.
don't lie, don't fabricate or convict by innuendo, but, dig, if you wish, and dig deep.
If all is ok, nothing will come of it.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:31 pm

ygmir wrote:interesting schism:

JK:
I totally realize and understand the first part:
No, that was not what I said at all, and certainly didnt mean to imply it either.
but it's interesting, that, I glean from the way you accuse others of racism for "attacking" (or whatever verb fits), Obama, that, you are implying they are racially motivated in their attacks.

Some of the substance of what they are attacking is racially motivate...some explicitly, most implicitly; both just as incidious and some who are actually doing it don't even realize the motivations themselves; while others use certain 'code' words knowing that they resonate in the ears of this certain group of people like a dog hears a dog whistle and are using it for their own selfish purpose of political gain.

Like it or not, it's happening. Believe it or not, it's happening. Recogize it for what it is or not, it's still happening.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:42 pm

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:interesting schism:

JK:
I totally realize and understand the first part:
No, that was not what I said at all, and certainly didnt mean to imply it either.
but it's interesting, that, I glean from the way you accuse others of racism for "attacking" (or whatever verb fits), Obama, that, you are implying they are racially motivated in their attacks.

Some of the substance of what they are attacking is racially motivate...some explicitly, most implicitly; both just as incidious and some who are actually doing it don't even realize the motivations themselves; while others use certain 'code' words knowing that they resonate in the ears of this certain group of people like a dog hears a dog whistle and are using it for their own selfish purpose of political gain.

Like it or not, it's happening. Believe it or not, it's happening. Recogize it for what it is or not, it's still happening.

I don't think I've denied some of the attacks are racially motivated.
IIRC, I've stated some are. I think I'm just trying to make the point, "all" are not. And, also trying to point out, a defense, based on race, is not always right.

I don't know that we're that far apart in agreement......I'm just not so good at elucidation.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:01 pm

Ygmir, I do not accuse you or trishntek of racism. And if I implied or said so earlier, I am sorry.
However, the continued attacks, are, in the aggregate partially racially motivated consciously and unconsciously, and this racism is the lube that keeps this ungainly contraption running in the hearts of the american public.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:02 pm

ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:interesting schism:

JK:
I totally realize and understand the first part: but it's interesting, that, I glean from the way you accuse others of racism for "attacking" (or whatever verb fits), Obama, that, you are implying they are racially motivated in their attacks.

Some of the substance of what they are attacking is racially motivate...some explicitly, most implicitly; both just as incidious and some who are actually doing it don't even realize the motivations themselves; while others use certain 'code' words knowing that they resonate in the ears of this certain group of people like a dog hears a dog whistle and are using it for their own selfish purpose of political gain.

Like it or not, it's happening. Believe it or not, it's happening. Recogize it for what it is or not, it's still happening.
I don't think I've denied some of the attacks are racially motivated.
IIRC, I've stated some are. I think I'm just trying to make the point, "all" are not. And, also trying to point out, a defense, based on race, is not always right.

I don't know that we're that far apart in agreement......I'm just not so good at elucidation.

We can agree here.

Though if I were to add that I am pretty sure that those people that are bending over backwards to prove he is not a citizen or that he is not a christian, no matter what excuse they use, to spite all evidence presented, are actually racially rooted, whether knowingly or not, poorly disguised (or possibly poorly justified) with some sort of "I only want to get at the truth" or "There is so much we don't know" or any other versioin of the above; I think we might not continue to agree.

OH, and you elucidate extraordinarily well.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:03 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Ygmir, I do not accuse you or trishntek of racism. And if I implied or said so earlier, I am sorry.
However, the continued attacks, are, in the aggregate partially racially motivated consciously and unconsciously, and this racism is the lube that keeps this ungainly contraption running in the hearts of the american public.

On the very far edges I am sure it is.
For the most part I disagree with you though. All I see is mostly hyperbole left/right politics.

Fighting about stupid shit. While ignoring what is really important.

And of course what is really important to me, will not be to others.

That's ok.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:06 pm

In your opinion, is this picture racist or have racial undertones? If yes, why; if no, why not?

Now, let's play another little game. Watch this movie and see if you can find all of the old black stereotypes that have been used in "humor" or campaign signs referencing Obama. See why those things just "MIGHT" be considered RACIST?

[youtube][/youtube]

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:33 pm

Yep is racial with racial overtones. Not something I would endorse.

Unless I was camping with BDC&WB and just wanted to piss a bunch of you off.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:44 pm

and then we have all seen pictures of different presidents hung and burnt.

so if BHO was hung and burnt by student war protesters would it be a racial statement? or just another political statement?

hmmmm we still have two wars going on, where have all the protesters gone?

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:45 pm

goathead wrote:Yep is racial with racial overtones. Not something I would endorse.

Unless I was camping with BDC&WB and just wanted to piss a bunch of you off.

LOL. In that case I would think it would be funny. It's sort of like it's OK for you can say bad things about your mother, but it's not OK for someone else to do it kind of thing.

I was brought up in a pretty racist family, though my mother would never admit it and my dad didn't care...sort of like Archie Bunker. To this day, my sister uses the N word like a sailor uses swear words.

When I was in Junior high school, there was only one black kid in our school, in the same year as I was and we were in band together. We bacame pretty good friends. One day I decided to invite him over. My mom was very cordial, fixed bologna sandwiches for us, and we did what ever kids do at that age until it was time for him to go. My mom commented on what a nice friend he was and in the same breath asked if it might be possible to have him come over in the evening next time so the neighbors wouldn't see.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:48 pm

goathead wrote:and then we have all seen pictures of different presidents hung and burnt.

so if BHO was hung and burnt by student war protesters would it be a racial statement? or just another political statement?

hmmmm we still have two wars going on, where have all the protesters gone?

It would be a distasteful and inappropriate protest poster to use with any president, it would not be racial, in my opinion.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:52 pm

WE had a pretty mix bunch of kids growing up farm kids, small town kids and kids from the NAS Fallon. Never really did understand the racial crap, we where all just kids.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:56 pm

goathead wrote:WE had a pretty mix bunch of kids growing up farm kids, small town kids and kids from the NAS Fallon. Never really did understand the racial crap, we where all just kids.

Wish more people were brought up that way.

Old habits are hard to break--sometimes even hard to recognize.