Pakistan

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Mon May 02, 2011 7:03 pm

Soooooo what the hell should we do with Pakistan? Now that we know that they know that we know that they're either BIG FUCKUPS or siphoning OUR $$$$$$$ while aiding and abetting the ENEMY! What Say You?

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon May 02, 2011 7:18 pm

There is little doubt in my mind that they are colluding with the enemy in spite of the fact that we have given them something like $18 BILLION in aide.

Now that we know how effective J-SOC and other small covert operations really are, I think we should totally pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan (we aren't technically in Pakistan), and use those resources in a lot more of these small, intelligence based, in and out strike missions. That would keep us a whole lot safer with a whole lot less money and lives lost.

I'm just reiteration something that I have said here many times before.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon May 02, 2011 7:45 pm

We should give them a very cold look and close our purse.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon May 02, 2011 8:05 pm

Or we may just want to wait till we have more facts before doing something rash.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Mon May 02, 2011 8:23 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Or we may just want to wait till we have more facts before doing something rash.

I was thinking more about this!

http://www.prisonplanet.com/musharraf-b ... istan.html

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon May 02, 2011 9:57 pm

They fear India more than they do us.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Tue May 03, 2011 8:04 am

this would explain all the currying.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Wed May 04, 2011 3:20 pm

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Wed May 04, 2011 9:27 pm

Soooooo what the hell should we do with Pakistan?

You write as if Pakistan was some place that was ours to do something with.

I'll admit though that the tenor of your question is consistent with your well-documented conservative credentials and certainly not surprising - or unexpected.

Reading your post the word 'hubris' comes to mind.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed May 04, 2011 9:43 pm

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Wed May 04, 2011 9:55 pm

Ditto.. but we payed Pakistan the rights to kill him in their country. Fuck it! Hes dead! Let's move on!

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Wed May 04, 2011 11:25 pm

Isotopia wrote:
Soooooo what the hell should we do with Pakistan?
You write as if Pakistan was some place that was ours to do something with.

I'll admit though that the tenor of your question is consistent with your well-documented conservative credentials and certainly not surprising - or unexpected.

Reading your post the word 'hubris' comes to mind.

Seeing as Pakistan is the only land route into Afghanistan and we use their airspace on a regular basis;

Seeing as we have been giving them BILLIONS per year in aid;

Seeing as we are involved in other countries in the region;

and, Seeing as the possibility of changing our relationship with them is greater at this time;

I did not intend to insinuate any ownership or possession of Pakistan, but was merely soliciting opinions pertaining to the most obvious choices we could entertain.

There never was an assumption that whatever we express in this forum would by any means influence the outcome of our gubmint's relationship with Pakistan in the least.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu May 05, 2011 10:12 am

Isotopia wrote:
Soooooo what the hell should we do with Pakistan?
You write as if Pakistan was some place that was ours to do something with.

I'll admit though that the tenor of your question is consistent with your well-documented conservative credentials and certainly not surprising - or unexpected.

Reading your post the word 'hubris' comes to mind.

Maybe your hubris kept you from hearing the real questions that are asked: How would you deal with Pakistan? Do you trust them now that we found that Bin Laden was hiding a stone's throw from a Paki military installation? Do we owe them any aid money at this point?

penrose · Post by **penrose** » Thu May 05, 2011 12:27 pm

When you refer to Pakistan, who do you mean? There are many Pakistans, and we must engage in their dangerous dance of keeping the rival factions at each others' throats rather than at the nuclear buttons. This operation did not reveal "Pakistan"'s collusion with "the enemy" so much as the multi-layered and dysfunctional nature of their government. It's never been a secret that powerful Paki factions support the Taliban, and it's ridiculous to suppose bin Laden was there without anyone in power knowing it. The question is, which power should we strengthen, and which undermine? If we choose to keep our hands largely off, then we must accept that as a whole they cannot be trusted even while we absolutely depend on them for our strategic goals.

Which is a whole nother discussion I don't want to get into. Point is, we can't "do" anything with Pakistan but continue the realpolitik as usual. This was a good strong move, though, despite its obvious moral shortcomings, and the people of that part of the world who hate us respect strength above all.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Thu May 05, 2011 1:04 pm

Yeah I kind of figured maintaining the status quo was a given and left it off the pole. That is probably what will take place anyway.

dr.placebo · Post by **dr.placebo** » Thu May 05, 2011 6:37 pm

A few more things to throw into consideration:

1. Pakistan has nukes.
2. Pakistan and India are mutually hostile.
3. India has nukes.
4. The US has a national interest in keeping things from exploding there.

IMHO, we can't disengage without increasing the risk. Staying engaged with them does not mean that we have to be nice, but it does mean that we have to continue to give them sufficient reason to stay engaged with us, although we should not expect them to be nice, either.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Fri May 06, 2011 9:51 am

Meh, those nukes merely enforce a stalemate, just as it does/did between the USA and the USSR. Contrary to common opinion, the Pakis and Indians are rational people as well, and don't want to kill and die unecessarily. The USA is not the only thing keeping them from nuclear armageddon.

But, if somebody gets it under his turban to create a pan-Arab empire, seizing the Paki nukes would certainly be part of his plan.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri May 06, 2011 7:07 pm

So if it's true that the CIA was next door and didn't figure it out either...

I'm sorry, the idea just makes me laugh.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri May 06, 2011 7:11 pm

really........does anyone think, we're getting the "whole story" let alone the "real" one?

c'mon.......

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Fri May 06, 2011 10:58 pm

It was interesting how many different opinions I heard today. MD's who think the Pakistan gubmint had to know,,,, ON SOME LEVEL,,,, that UBL was about to be tapped. It could be whoever really controls those nukes AND probably gets a tidy cut out of our foreign aide may have felt UBL was getting in their way. I maybe they finally noticed what happened to Sudan and Afghanistan was starting to happen in Pakistan,,,,, all because of that hatefully sick MutherFucker.

Others said NAWWWWWW NO WAY! could they have had a clue those stealth choppers were coming!

I still think a 6'4" Arab in Pakistan,,,,, in the same place,,,,, for over FIVE YEARS,,,, just might draw a wee bit of attention to SOMEBODY!

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Sat May 07, 2011 9:34 am

theCryptofishist wrote:So if it's true that the CIA was next door and didn't figure it out either...

I'm sorry, the idea just makes me laugh.

Were they next door? Surely they have an office in Islamabad. Obviously they tracked this courier down over a period of years...

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat May 07, 2011 11:25 am

Isotopia wrote:
Soooooo what the hell should we do with Pakistan?
You write as if Pakistan was some place that was ours to do something with. I'll admit though that the tenor of your question is consistent with your well-documented conservative credentials and certainly not surprising - or unexpected. Reading your post the word 'hubris' comes to mind.

Jesus fuck, a couple billion a year in aid should buy something more than a curry flavoured pizza.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Fri May 13, 2011 12:57 pm

Isotopia wrote:Reading your post the word 'hubris' comes to mind.

Oh wow. Coming from Isotopia!

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Fri May 13, 2011 2:19 pm

Bob wrote:
Isotopia wrote:
Soooooo what the hell should we do with Pakistan?
You write as if Pakistan was some place that was ours to do something with. I'll admit though that the tenor of your question is consistent with your well-documented conservative credentials and certainly not surprising - or unexpected. Reading your post the word 'hubris' comes to mind.
Jesus fuck, a couple billion a year in aid should buy something more than a curry flavoured pizza.

You'd think it would be okay that we stipulate that they don't try to kill our boys.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Fri May 13, 2011 2:22 pm

Nice that Pakistan was so quick to share their "trophy" with the Chinese.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ds-newsxml

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Fri May 13, 2011 2:27 pm

They also named the CIA station chief in Islamabad. That sounds like retaliation for us removing their beloved leader, rather than relief at seeing him go.

Pakistan

What should we do with Pakistan?

Pakistan