Burning Man Liability Insurance

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri May 20, 2011 1:35 am

Dustdevil wrote:Just got my quote. Theme Camp serving alcohol, 40' tall scaffolding, fire art and in operation from 8-20 thru 9-7..... 1M liablility coverage, $500 deductable. Premium is $770. Whether that is worth the investment is a tough decision. AND many of you who are home owners may not be aware of this, but your homeowners policy may very well cover you. Sounds far fetched, but I was an expert witness on a wrongful death case involving pyrotechnics and the defendant was covered by his homeowners insurance. It was NOT a commercial show he was doing so they took care of him.

I would suggest checking with your insurance company to find out exactly what is covered. You don't know what sort of coverage that defendant had. He might have had an expensive Cadillac plan. My car insurance doesn't cover our rental truck, they won't even give us a rider at any price (Geico).

Post by **Sham** » Fri May 20, 2011 1:38 am

I just want to bump my post to page 2, since this is important stuff!

Shambala wrote:Are these insurance quotes that you're talking about based on the one week during the Burning Man event? Most insurance quotes are based on a 12 month cycle, so the quote MDMF got would really be $54,600 by comparison. This is really an outrageously high number if you look at it this way. My art car costs me about $8.65 per week for $300,000 worth of coverage, and it's covered by my homeowners umbrella as well.
My point is that maybe you should be getting a quote from an agency that is NOT Burning Man savvy to see what they want for this type of coverage.
Another illustration is, on commercial/retail property with about $5,000,000 worth of coverage costs about $4,000 per year or $77.00 per week.
A little homework here can save a shit-pot of money. I hope this info helps!

peachandpapa · Post by **peachandpapa** » Fri May 20, 2011 3:16 pm

My quote of $853.00 was for $1,000,000 general liability for one week...not for the year.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Fri May 20, 2011 3:45 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Please, don't call her a dumb bitch. You don't have to like her, and you can show your disapproval, but it was a horrible thing that sent out lots of waves through various communities, and to some of us the name calling is a turn of a knife.

Perhaps a bit harshly worded. I just have no tolerance for people that cause misery for others by their own stupid actions.

Yes, it's horrible that she was killed. I don't debate that at all. I do feel bad for her and for the loved ones she left behind. That however will not keep me from calling a spade a spade. She died as a direct result of her own misguided actions and no one else should have to suffer for that.

If telling the truth is a "turn of the knife", then perhaps some deeper examination of why you're carrying a knife in the first place is in order.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled semi-drifted thread... (before we drift it any further)

-Badger

Post by **Sham** » Fri May 20, 2011 8:00 pm

peachandpapa wrote:My quote of $853.00 was for $1,000,000 general liability for one week...not for the year.

There is definitely a premium for a policy that is just for a week, but look at my math and illustrations above. That would be $44,356 for that policy for a year---and just for a million dollars of coverage.
Again, you may have to pay extra for a fair quote if the policy is just for a week, but this appears to be something like 20 times what it should be.

I will suggest again getting a quote from an agency that is NOT playa savvy to see what that is. My guess that amount of coverage should run you about $150 for that period. If you up the coverage to 2 million, it will probably add another $50.

I hope my rantings make sense!

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Fri May 20, 2011 8:34 pm

until the latest e-mail newsletter from bmorg that mentioned the insurance company, folks generally believed the fine print on the back of the ticket ( attendee assumes all risks ) could cover them if they were a camp operator, mv owner, or artist.

NOW SINCE BMORG BROADCAST:

'HERE'S WHERE TO GET YOUR INSURANCE'

IT APPEARS THAT INSURANCE IS NOW "REQUIRED" BY BMORG..........sort of 'you must have insurance, or you are obviously careless and therefore logically at fault' if anything happens. enough to kill a lot of creativity.

Disneyland, here we come!

(not sure but I believe insurance for large fireworks shows is cheaper)

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri May 20, 2011 9:32 pm

Business insurance can be much cheaper.
They usually have more discretion too.

Insurance rates are about leverage, not facts or risk.

There was an interesting saga some time ago, when a Countach was given away to a normal human being.
He was never able to obtain coverage for it.

I know someone with a 1200 pound car powered by a supercharged big block.
After initial balking, allstate insured it for $400 a year.
This was due to leverage.

(I wouldn't trust geico to insure a nail.)

Post by **Sham** » Sat May 21, 2011 3:37 am

These insurance quotes remind me of what car rental companies try to do when you pick up your car. "it's just $18 per day, and you don't have to worry about anything"! Since your (premium) credit card will cover you, as well as your own car insurance, why would you pay what comes to $6570 (per year) extra for duplicate coverage? So many people just say, "it's only $126 for the week, and I don't have to be concerned if I have an accident". This is nothing but a pure profit center for the rental companies. That's why they push so hard and try to scare you into taking it.

As far as camp insurance, I think people should talk with their local insurance agent about this just for guidance. They may not offer this type of coverage, but they will tell you what they think you should be paying, and can even review the policy before you sign for it.

The liability and exposure at theme camps are pretty low, compared to other activities, like car racing, skydiving, scuba diving, rock climbing etc. As I look at this, I say that 3 million dollars of coverage should be about $250 for the week.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat May 21, 2011 5:36 pm

Apart from the fact that everyone looks uglier without compassion, and the particular horrors that were said on this board, my husband was at the scene, and I think he had some sort of ptsd from it. Bad anxiety disorder for the next year. It certainly broke a corner of his heart. And I'm not going to talk about how Scott was killed. But you can feel free to hate him for his stupidity. And my little sister too.

And I will miss your avatar, but I can live with that.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Sat May 21, 2011 11:39 pm

Who said anything about hate? 0_o

If you choose to make assuptions about who I am and my level of compassion, so be it. *Shrug* I guess that means I got plonked. Interesting.

I'm pretty sure I have never even heard of this Scott person or your little sister, so I'm not sure why that was even mentioned.

I hope that your husband has healed from that since then.

-Badger

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat May 21, 2011 11:58 pm

Scott was her husband, and by all accounts an excellent person.

He was killed risking his life to help others.

It does seem a lot of assumptions are being made about the death and the lawsuit.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun May 22, 2011 10:24 am

Shambala wrote:
I will suggest again getting a quote from an agency that is NOT playa savvy to see what that is. My guess that amount of coverage should run you about $150 for that period. If you up the coverage to 2 million, it will probably add another $50.

I hope my rantings make sense!

If an insurance company were not "playa savvy" how could they properly assess the risk? if they went from the insured's representation of the event and there was a claim; might they not get "playa savvy" rather quickly and possibly deny the claim?

I'm only guessing, but I'd bet that the rate this company charges is because the know the risks and charge appropriately, and most other insurance companies won't offer insurance for this event.

I am certainly no expert here, but just wondering. Usually the market sets the price, so it doesn't make sense that they would charge a rate so much out of line with the industry unless they cornered the market.

Post by **mdmf007** » Sun May 22, 2011 11:02 am

Shambala wrote:
peachandpapa wrote:My quote of $853.00 was for $1,000,000 general liability for one week...not for the year.
There is definitely a premium for a policy that is just for a week, but look at my math and illustrations above. That would be $44,356 for that policy for a year---and just for a million dollars of coverage.
Again, you may have to pay extra for a fair quote if the policy is just for a week, but this appears to be something like 20 times what it should be.

I will suggest again getting a quote from an agency that is NOT playa savvy to see what that is. My guess that amount of coverage should run you about $150 for that period. If you up the coverage to 2 million, it will probably add another $50.

I hope my rantings make sense!

It is misleading to say that the one week insurance plan's rate equals 50,000.00 a year. The maht may work out for it that way - but the reality is different.

The policies cover the stated period, which for our quote was about a two week period for 1070.00 This doesnt mean that if I wanted insurance all year it would be 26 times that. It means that 100% of the risk the insurance assumes is at burningman. Why wouldn't they get 100% of the premium calculation for that risk? If BM was a year long event the odds of claim and injury are that much higher, but not 26 times. a base rate has to start somewhere.

Post by **Sham** » Sun May 22, 2011 7:33 pm

I guess I need to clarify what I mean by playa savvy. A company that is familiar and accustomed to quoting rates for the festival, may be throwing out high quotes and getting takers. There are other companies who can quote the same coverages for the same festival, and may have much lower rates.
My art car roamed the playa with the liability and regular coverages on it for just $8.65 for that period. If there was an accident and someone was hurt, the insurance would have kicked in. If I contacted an insurance company and told them I would be at the BM festival and I want all these coverages, I would probably have to pay $200 for that week.
It's all a matter of backing into the insurance so you don't get taken.

MamaVit · Post by **MamaVit** » Thu May 26, 2011 4:18 pm

I just want to clarify that the liability quotes for the art cars are intended for non-plated vehicles that are driven on the playa but are otherwise not legal to drive on public roads. If an art car is plated and legally driven off the playa, then an auto policy is the mandatory and appropriate coverage to have. This is stated very clearly on our website. Our intention is to provide an option for liability that someone with a non-plated art car would otherwise not be able to obtain.

Post by **Sham** » Thu May 26, 2011 7:21 pm

MamaVit, I wouldn't ever expect to see a tiny quote for 2 weeks worth of insurance. Telling someone that a policy like this is $20 would be insane.
On a regular passenger car that you may insure, the exposure of this hunk of steel hurtling down the highway at 80 MPH is much greater than an art car on the playa--but there are other risks involved at BM. Someone falling off or getting run over etc.
I'm sure you offer great insurance and good coverages, but I am just suggesting that people don't assume that an $800 quote is their only option, and illustrated this with my funky math.

Burning Man Liability Insurance

Art Car Liability