When Are Apologies Necessary?

Post by **Sham** » Mon May 30, 2011 2:11 am

I swear that something is going on the world that is making everyone fucked in the head. I'm not sure what it can be--maybe so many wireless signals bouncing in the air, or the immediacy of the internet world. I am noticing the same thing that Maryanimal is seeing. Irrational and selfish outbursts with no explanation whatsoever seems so prevalent lately.
What ever mystery is going on, it seems that the person going off feels fully justified in the rant and the hurt feeling that they're causing.
There is no logical reason for this behavior, but I hope it helps MA to know that others are noticing this nuttiness with people too.

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Mon May 30, 2011 3:19 am

Just a rage against the machine.

MyDearFriend · Post by **MyDearFriend** » Mon May 30, 2011 6:18 am

I would say, that the ease and prevalence of vicarious experience via the internet leads people to believe they would enjoy things that, in reality, they don't, and this disappoints and confuses them. Hence the seemingly irrational anger when they fail to sort this out.

But, I am married to a man who has been falling into this kind of thing with me for 31 years, so

can't blame that on the interwebs, hmmm. He just doesn't know in advance what things might upset him, and, if he's already told me he's okay with whatever, then, he doesn't like to go back on his word if he discovers otherwise!

So mysterious out-of-proportion anger is a big red flag for me, and a signal to call him on whatever else might be going on. And to give him an out, if I can.

Not going to bail on my 'camping trip' though, no matter how pissy he gets about these piles of gear...

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Mon May 30, 2011 8:08 am

My responce to undeserved rant directed at me is "Take that garbage and put it back where you found it cause you did'nt get it from me"!

neon tetra · Post by **neon tetra** » Mon May 30, 2011 8:29 am

Shambala wrote:I swear that something is going on the world that is making everyone fucked in the head. I'm not sure what it can be--maybe so many wireless signals bouncing in the air, or the immediacy of the internet world. I am noticing the same thing that Maryanimal is seeing. Irrational and selfish outbursts with no explanation whatsoever seems so prevalent lately.

It really does seem that way. Maybe it's all the chemtrails & HAARP & everything else!
Or just the culture of selfishness that keeps getting stronger.
Definitely something.

Psychocybin420 · Post by **Psychocybin420** » Mon May 30, 2011 9:00 am

neon tetra wrote:
Shambala wrote:I swear that something is going on the world that is making everyone fucked in the head. I'm not sure what it can be--maybe so many wireless signals bouncing in the air, or the immediacy of the internet world. I am noticing the same thing that Maryanimal is seeing. Irrational and selfish outbursts with no explanation whatsoever seems so prevalent lately.
It really does seem that way. Maybe it's all the chemtrails & HAARP & everything else!
Or just the culture of selfishness that keeps getting stronger.
Definitely something.

lmao

... yeah or all those "elf towers" they put up everywhere. Better get those tinfoil hats ready!!! Shit....if its this bad already i dont even wanna know what 2012 is gonna be like. Before i read ur post i was thinking the exact same thing.

Blame the illuminati.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Mon May 30, 2011 10:44 am

It seems the word "PATIENCE" is all but gone. Instant gratification,,,, the entire world literally at our fingertips,,,, communicating electronically more than face to face,,,, mouth to ear,,,,

We've actively been trying to bring together people locally who ordinarily communicate through forums such as this. On a whim, a couple of us just announced, "Let's meet up at this restaurant for dinner and go to this bar afterwards." We had FOURTEEN PEOPLE show up! I think there is a hunger for people to actually breathe the same air for awhile.

We who remember the meaning of "Dialing a telephone" were probably raised with certain abilities of interpersonal communication. In the "Information Age", we have an abundance of "DATA". But manners, etiquette and general respect and consideration of others seem to be whithering.

Sometimes I think a big-ass solar flare knocking out everything electric would be just the ticket to get us back in touch with our humanity.

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Mon May 30, 2011 11:02 am

Trishntek wrote:It seems the word "PATIENCE" is all but gone. Instant gratification,,,, the entire world literally at our fingertips,,,, communicating electronically more than face to face,,,, mouth to ear,,,,

We've actively been trying to bring together people locally who ordinarily communicate through forums such as this. On a whim, a couple of us just announced, "Let's meet up at this restaurant for dinner and go to this bar afterwards." We had FOURTEEN PEOPLE show up! I think there is a hunger for people to actually breathe the same air for awhile.

We who remember the meaning of "Dialing a telephone" were probably raised with certain abilities of interpersonal communication. In the "Information Age", we have an abundance of "DATA". But manners, etiquette and general respect and consideration of others seem to be whithering.

Sometimes I think a big-ass solar flare knocking out everything electric would be just the ticket to get us back in touch with our humanity.

I agree, except for one minor point. without this here i wouldn't know any of you at all and my burning man experience will would be a different thing indeed

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Mon May 30, 2011 11:42 am

Grai,,,, the same could be said for those 14 people I got better acquainted with over the past few weeks! I'm not saying internet communications are bad in and of themselves. I AM saying that there is a generation coming up that has lost,,, or never practiced the art of interpersonal communication on a personal level.

Texting can be so abrupt and to the point without the traditional "greetings and salutations". The freedom to express oneself anonymously without recognizing the consequences those expressions on the recipient creates a mindset. Tact, manners and sensitivity are easily dismissed for the sake of "efficiency". Looking the other person in the eye and reading body language are amiss and often disregarded for the sake of "self-expression".

Some are able to express emotion and mindful thought via the written word better than others. Some cannot bring themselves to take the time to actually read what is said AND read between the lines to get the full meaning of the words. I see this flaw in the real world more and more. And it translates into real-life conversations which do not contain the fullness of being able to separate WHAT is said from HOW it is said.

Skills in interpersonal communication is an art. I'm just saying the information age has crippled certain individuals' ability to actually have a rational, metered and patient conversation with others. LISTENING is the more important half of a conversation. Part of listening is observing and getting a sense of meaning behind the words.

Mojojita · Post by **Mojojita** » Mon May 30, 2011 11:53 am

maryanimal wrote:I swear,ok...I have a question, you're talking with you friend SO, whom ever, and they're feeling really upset and can't be consoled but try as you might all you can do is let them lean on you, then for some reason they go off on you, accusing you of stupid things, just being unrealistic! Like a switch clicked on and BOOM, you don't know what hit you!

You try to remain calm and try to realize they're hurting, but it doesn't help some times when vile things are being said to you.

Frankly, it sounds as if the friend was drowning his/her sorrows and some alcohol is involved with that kind of unthinking quick mood swing. Even if not, there are just some things that should never be said because they just can't ever really be taken back - even with a sincere apology.

It may be the best thing for you to chalk it up on the "No good deed goes unpunished" list.

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Mon May 30, 2011 11:53 am

Trishntek wrote:Grai,,,, the same could be said for those 14 people I got better acquainted with over the past few weeks! I'm not saying internet communications are bad in and of themselves. I AM saying that there is a generation coming up that has lost,,, or never practiced the art of interpersonal communication on a personal level.

Texting can be so abrupt and to the point without the traditional "greetings and salutations". The freedom to express oneself anonymously without recognizing the consequences those expressions on the recipient creates a mindset. Tact, manners and sensitivity are easily dismissed for the sake of "efficiency". Looking the other person in the eye and reading body language are amiss and often disregarded for the sake of "self-expression".

Some are able to express emotion and mindful thought via the written word better than others. Some cannot bring themselves to take the time to actually read what is said AND read between the lines to get the full meaning of the words. I see this flaw in the real world more and more. And it translates into real-life conversations which do not contain the fullness of being able to separate WHAT is said from HOW it is said.

Skills in interpersonal communication is an art. I'm just saying the information age has crippled certain individuals' ability to actually have a rational, metered and patient conversation with others. LISTENING is the more important half of a conversation. Part of listening is observing and getting a sense of meaning behind the words.

Tek that is simply the most accurate description of the flaw with modern communication i have ever read, without actually seeing someone or hearing them talk you can never really know what they mean when they write something, its why i fervently beleive if you are going to mantain an written communication with someone you need to meet them, to better understand them. The written way of communication is so long winded if someone has never met you, because you need to be so precise - which as you say isnt Efficient, so is forgotten

Mojojita · Post by **Mojojita** » Mon May 30, 2011 12:41 pm

maryanimal wrote:I swear,ok...I have a question, you're talking with you friend SO, whom ever, and they're feeling really upset and can't be consoled but try as you might all you can do is let them lean on you, then for some reason they go off on you, accusing you of stupid things, just being unrealistic! Like a switch clicked on and BOOM, you don't know what hit you!

You try to remain calm and try to realize they're hurting, but it doesn't help some times when vile things are being said to you.

Frankly, it sounds as if the friend was drowning his/her sorrows and some alcohol is involved with that kind of unthinking quick mood swing. Even if not, there are just some things that should never be said because they just can't ever really be taken back - even with a sincere apology.

Post by **Sham** » Mon May 30, 2011 1:10 pm

I think something important was stumbled upon in this thread. The technology of computers and instant communication has evolved so far, that it appears to be on the verge of destroying society as we knew it.
I don't say this lightly. When your ride shows up to pick you up at your house, a text message is sent, "I'm outside".
This generation has digressed pretty sharply due to these fairly new devices. Imagine what the next generation and another 20 years is going to do to humanity. This was all science fiction from the past, but holy shit, it's really happening!

moonrise · Post by **moonrise** » Mon May 30, 2011 1:48 pm

((((MA))))

"No good deed goes unpunished" is a tough pill to swallow; but sometimes it's all there is. Bad things happen to good people all the time, I know, ask me.

Perhaps extra stress, the recession, other factors brought out the ugly comments. I hope it smoothes over for you and your SO/freind, soon.

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon May 30, 2011 1:51 pm

Shambala wrote:I think something important was stumbled upon in this thread. The technology of computers and instant communication has evolved so far, that it appears to be on the verge of destroying society as we knew it.
I don't say this lightly. When your ride shows up to pick you up at your house, a text message is sent, "I'm outside".
This generation has digressed pretty sharply due to these fairly new devices. Imagine what the next generation and another 20 years is going to do to humanity. This was all science fiction from the past, but holy shit, it's really happening!

I'm sure the same could have been said for fire, the wheel, electricity, the telephone, type setting, the list goes on and on. We will survive the Internet and whatever other technology is invented. But the truth is, when rubber hits the road, it's still face to face communication that closes the deal.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Mon May 30, 2011 1:56 pm

jkisha wrote:
Shambala wrote:I think something important was stumbled upon in this thread. The technology of computers and instant communication has evolved so far, that it appears to be on the verge of destroying society as we knew it.
I don't say this lightly. When your ride shows up to pick you up at your house, a text message is sent, "I'm outside".
This generation has digressed pretty sharply due to these fairly new devices. Imagine what the next generation and another 20 years is going to do to humanity. This was all science fiction from the past, but holy shit, it's really happening!
I'm sure the same could have been said for fire, the wheel, electricity, the telephone, type setting, the list goes on and on. We will survive the Internet and whatever other technology is invented. But the truth is, when rubber hits the road, it's still face to face communication that closes the deal.

I do not disagree there,,,, but if there is no PRACTICAL KNOWLEDGE of how to communicate face to face,,,, the "deal" is never realized IMO.

edit to add: As Trish and I are discussing this and consider what Sham said about texting "we're here" when someone arrives to pick you up,,, we wonder: Whatever happens to actually getting off your ass and walking to the door,,,, ringing or knocking,,,, waiting,,,,, door opens,,,, hugs and salutaions,,,, a short chat,,,, help with coat or whatever? Those are the things that are disappearing from society.

edit #2: Fire actually brought people together. Wheels expanded horizons and help people come together with more frequency. Electricity and technology is not "bad" by nature. When these things replace gracious mannerisms, actual smiles and real huggggggs, I truly feel we are becoming less human and more like avatars.

H.G.Crosby · Post by **H.G.Crosby** » Mon May 30, 2011 2:31 pm

Psychocybin420 wrote:
neon tetra wrote:
Shambala wrote:I swear that something is going on the world that is making everyone fucked in the head. I'm not sure what it can be--maybe so many wireless signals bouncing in the air, or the immediacy of the internet world. I am noticing the same thing that Maryanimal is seeing. Irrational and selfish outbursts with no explanation whatsoever seems so prevalent lately.
It really does seem that way. Maybe it's all the chemtrails & HAARP & everything else!
Or just the culture of selfishness that keeps getting stronger.
Definitely something.
lmao ... yeah or all those "elf towers" they put up everywhere. Better get those tinfoil hats ready!!! Shit....if its this bad already i dont even wanna know what 2012 is gonna be like. Before i read ur post i was thinking the exact same thing. Blame the illuminati.

oh please, we have nothing to do with it.

maryanimal · Post by **maryanimal** » Mon May 30, 2011 9:51 pm

Shambala wrote:I swear that something is going on the world that is making everyone fucked in the head. I'm not sure what it can be--maybe so many wireless signals bouncing in the air, or the immediacy of the internet world. I am noticing the same thing that Maryanimal is seeing. Irrational and selfish outbursts with no explanation whatsoever seems so prevalent lately.

What ever mystery is going on, it seems that the person going off feels fully justified in the rant and the hurt feeling that they're causing.
There is no logical reason for this behavior, but I hope it helps MA to know that others are noticing this nuttiness with people too.

THIS really hit the nail on the head Sham! And thank you! Did you happen to see a show that said there is something/someone that's causing us to stutter or have trouble finding the word we're trying to say? I can't remember the show.

Btw, How ya doing?? Nice to see you again!

Post by **Sham** » Tue May 31, 2011 3:21 pm

maryanimal wrote:
Shambala wrote:I swear that something is going on the world that is making everyone fucked in the head. I'm not sure what it can be--maybe so many wireless signals bouncing in the air, or the immediacy of the internet world. I am noticing the same thing that Maryanimal is seeing. Irrational and selfish outbursts with no explanation whatsoever seems so prevalent lately.

What ever mystery is going on, it seems that the person going off feels fully justified in the rant and the hurt feeling that they're causing.
There is no logical reason for this behavior, but I hope it helps MA to know that others are noticing this nuttiness with people too.
THIS really hit the nail on the head Sham! And thank you! Did you happen to see a show that said there is something/someone that's causing us to stutter or have trouble finding the word we're trying to say? I can't remember the show.

Btw, How ya doing?? Nice to see you again!

In today's news, there is a story of the radiation from cell phones. http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/2 ... ?hpt=hp_t1 To have a transmitter that strong pressed against your skull for hours at a time has to cause some sort of problems to our brains. In addition, think of all the people who are having conversations, downloading pictures and videos and all other cell/WiFi type crap that is all in the air for us to absorb. There are hundreds of frequencies for all different devices that are fill our airspace.
Even if all this digital signaling is destroying our brains, can we really stop this progress? There is hardly a device around that's not WiFi enabled.

Hi Maryanimal, I'm doing fine. Thank you for asking, and how are you doing?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue May 31, 2011 6:18 pm

So I finally looked at the apology that a friend from high school offered me after blowing up and getting abusive because my behavior on facebook wasn't up to her exacting standards. She sent the first note (which I simply could not finish it was so toxic, although my therapist says she calls me a cripple) and a week or so later, while I was still reeling, sent the second. (All this was in February.) First she tells me she's very, very sorry then tells me that everyone plays nice on Facebook (hm, my experience is that people play nice in the public part of face book but are vicious in private messages) and that I'm a difficult friend.
If I cared to respond to her, I'd say that I am an impossible friend, because I find it impossible to be friends with those who abuse me.

illy dilly · Post by **illy dilly** » Tue May 31, 2011 6:34 pm

Shambala wrote: There are hundreds of frequencies for all different devices that are fill our airspace.
Even if all this digital signaling is destroying our brains, can we really stop this progress? There is hardly a device around that's not WiFi enabled.

I agree.
I've always said that if you look at the rise of cancer over the last 30-40 years it coincides with the rise in unnaturally occurring radio frequency over the last 30-40 years.
And there really is no way to say that being exposed to all the different radio for 50 years is what makes you more likely to get cancer.

......But 40 years ago people also died of 'natural causes'. When was the last time you heard of someone dieing of 'natural causes' now its always cancer or failure of a major life system.

But for argument sake I'm sticking with radio waves....
O hold on my cell phone is ringing.

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue May 31, 2011 6:56 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:So I finally looked at the apology that a friend from high school offered me after blowing up and getting abusive because my behavior on facebook wasn't up to her exacting standards. She sent the first note (which I simply could not finish it was so toxic, although my therapist says she calls me a cripple) and a week or so later, while I was still reeling, sent the second. (All this was in February.) First she tells me she's very, very sorry then tells me that everyone plays nice on Facebook (hm, my experience is that people play nice in the public part of face book but are vicious in private messages) and that I'm a difficult friend.
If I cared to respond to her, I'd say that I am an impossible friend, because I find it impossible to be friends with those who abuse me.

I think if it were me if she was sending you those nasty communiques in private messages, I might just publish them to my wall making sure everyone knew who sent it. I think if you @hername it automatically tags her.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue May 31, 2011 7:03 pm

illy dilly wrote:
Shambala wrote: There are hundreds of frequencies for all different devices that are fill our airspace.
Even if all this digital signaling is destroying our brains, can we really stop this progress? There is hardly a device around that's not WiFi enabled.
I agree.
I've always said that if you look at the rise of cancer over the last 30-40 years it coincides with the rise in unnaturally occurring radio frequency over the last 30-40 years.
And there really is no way to say that being exposed to all the different radio for 50 years is what makes you more likely to get cancer.

......But 40 years ago people also died of 'natural causes'. When was the last time you heard of someone dieing of 'natural causes' now its always cancer or failure of a major life system.

But for argument sake I'm sticking with radio waves....
O hold on my cell phone is ringing.

1--People are living longer, giving more time for any pre-cancerous cells more time to develop into cancer.
2--They are now being more specific about what the natural causes are, cancer, heart attack, kidney failure, etc., being natural causes.

Why does this seem to track with the rise in radio waves? Both come with the rise and spread of technology.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue May 31, 2011 7:04 pm

jkisha wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:So I finally looked at the apology that a friend from high school offered me after blowing up and getting abusive because my behavior on facebook wasn't up to her exacting standards. She sent the first note (which I simply could not finish it was so toxic, although my therapist says she calls me a cripple) and a week or so later, while I was still reeling, sent the second. (All this was in February.) First she tells me she's very, very sorry then tells me that everyone plays nice on Facebook (hm, my experience is that people play nice in the public part of face book but are vicious in private messages) and that I'm a difficult friend.
If I cared to respond to her, I'd say that I am an impossible friend, because I find it impossible to be friends with those who abuse me.
I think if it were me if she was sending you those nasty communiques in private messages, I might just publish them to my wall making sure everyone knew who sent it. I think if you @hername it automatically tags her.

I don't need to do that. I have the messages if I ever do, but I can just sit back and hope nothing happens. She hasn't sent me anything since the "apology" and that's a few months ago.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue May 31, 2011 7:07 pm

illy dilly wrote:
Shambala wrote: There are hundreds of frequencies for all different devices that are fill our airspace.
Even if all this digital signaling is destroying our brains, can we really stop this progress? There is hardly a device around that's not WiFi enabled.
I agree.
I've always said that if you look at the rise of cancer over the last 30-40 years it coincides with the rise in unnaturally occurring radio frequency over the last 30-40 years.
And there really is no way to say that being exposed to all the different radio for 50 years is what makes you more likely to get cancer.

......But 40 years ago people also died of 'natural causes'. When was the last time you heard of someone dieing of 'natural causes' now its always cancer or failure of a major life system.

But for argument sake I'm sticking with radio waves....
O hold on my cell phone is ringing.

My father died of natural causes, and although she died of heart disease (endocarditis?), mom was 83, so that was pretty natural for her age and health.

I'm going to say my two cancers were enabled by genetics, poor diet and lack of exercise, alcohol use, and possible exposure from Dog Knows What because as a child I lived at China Lake Naval Weapons Testing Station in the Mojave Desert for a coupe years in the early 60s. My oncologist turns a bit pale at that last factor.

illy dilly · Post by **illy dilly** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:42 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
illy dilly wrote:
Shambala wrote: There are hundreds of frequencies for all different devices that are fill our airspace.
Even if all this digital signaling is destroying our brains, can we really stop this progress? There is hardly a device around that's not WiFi enabled.
I agree.
I've always said that if you look at the rise of cancer over the last 30-40 years it coincides with the rise in unnaturally occurring radio frequency over the last 30-40 years.
And there really is no way to say that being exposed to all the different radio for 50 years is what makes you more likely to get cancer.

......But 40 years ago people also died of 'natural causes'. When was the last time you heard of someone dieing of 'natural causes' now its always cancer or failure of a major life system.

But for argument sake I'm sticking with radio waves....
O hold on my cell phone is ringing.
1--People are living longer, giving more time for any pre-cancerous cells more time to develop into cancer.
2--They are now being more specific about what the natural causes are, cancer, heart attack, kidney failure, etc., being natural causes.

Why does this seem to track with the rise in radio waves? Both come with the rise and spread of technology.

I pretty much agree with you.
And when I say 'people don't die of natural causes any more' what I mean is that the cause of death is rarely natural causes. A doctor or someone always gives you a reason. Where as I ask my parents why their grandfolks died and the answer is 'they were old, they died of natural causes' Not 'they heard failure' or 'the cancer finally caught up with them'

True, there really is no way to link radio waves to a rise in cancer besides the rise in both, and technology, over the last 30-40 years. I just like to say that radio waves cause cancer. I'm by no means saying I'm positive I'm correct. But who knows, maybe I am?

Post by **Elderberry** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:16 pm

illy dilly wrote:I just like to say that radio waves cause cancer. I'm by no means saying I'm positive I'm correct. But who knows, maybe I am?

Well that's absolutely the most asinine thing I've read today, if not all week. Yea, who knows, maybe you're right, the same way a broken watch is right...twice a day.

Post by **Sham** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:27 pm

I guess the point and the reason for this thread is that something in our environment is causing people to be very high strung and uppity. We as a society seem to always be on edge and ready to snap at the slightest provocation. Could it be what we're eating, what's in the airwaves or are we just evolving in to a bunch of high maintenance assholes?

What were we like as a civilization 50 years ago? Were we a kinder, more compassionate people, or am I just perceiving it that way?

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:00 pm

Technology definitely contributes to an increase in short attentions spans and the expectation of immediate gratification. Would this not lead to less patience in general?

And then we have an entire generation raised to suspect every "stranger" whom they come in contact. There are contrived dangers everywhere! Heaven forbid a child rides a bike without a helmet or play in the local pond or simply throw dirt clods at each other. I'm convinced that there is so much paranoia and insecurity, compounded by the feeding frenzy of video games and fingertip shopping, that we are indeed becoming a bunch of jumpy, distrusting, narcissistic assholes!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:16 pm

Shambala wrote:I guess the point and the reason for this thread is that something in our environment is causing people to be very high strung and uppity. We as a society seem to always be on edge and ready to snap at the slightest provocation. Could it be what we're eating, what's in the airwaves or are we just evolving in to a bunch of high maintenance assholes?

What were we like as a civilization 50 years ago? Were we a kinder, more compassionate people, or am I just perceiving it that way?

It's been a while since the law set dogs on people who were simply peacefully protesting the unfulfillment of their voting rights.
I don't know exactly when lynching ended, but it's within living memory. I once read something to the effect that everyone looks back to a golden age when s/he and her/his mother were one, and that gets translated into a golden age set before he/she was born. I don't know if I believe that, but it's something I like to hold on to when the conversation takes this turn.