Soveriegners

maryanimal · Post by **maryanimal** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:07 pm

I was reading an article in the Sunday paper this morning, and saw this article about the Sovereigners. As I read the article it said that they were violent people. There's a young man, Adrian B Shannon, here in Spokane, who went to court to fight a speeding ticket. He seemed well-versed in his rights as a Sovereigner.

I'm wondering if it's againt the law to become and live the life as a sovereigner. I mean as read I the article , and I'm paraphrasing what I read, "they believe they're not american citizens, they believe they are exempt from birth certificates, drivers licenses and question the legitimacy of local goverment agencies such as federal,state and local, using a series of leagal maneuvers".

Could this be the trend we'll be seeing with more unrest towards our government?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:22 pm

I know several.
They will say "yes" we are "natural citizens" or some such, and exempt from U.S. gov. control.
but, they'll also happily use the roads, schools, free (no insurance, but the hospital still has to care for them) and take anything free the gov. will give them.

interesting concept, but so far, the ones I've encountered are hypocritical.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:11 pm

The shootout in West Memphis involved evangelical soverign citizens.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:13 pm

fuck government and fuck big business! this includes you hospitals! This can only happen, when people get their heads, out of their political ass.

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:23 pm

ygmir wrote:I know several.
They will say "yes" we are "natural citizens" or some such, and exempt from U.S. gov. control.
but, they'll also happily use the roads, schools, free (no insurance, but the hospital still has to care for them) and take anything free the gov. will give them.

interesting concept, but so far, the ones I've encountered are hypocritical.

I've seen the same thing around here.
I would invite those people to all take an excursion to a country that has no law, no personal or property rights and no services. If they make out well there then they could start a society. Oh wait! Then they would have to have rules and a government to keep things the way they want it. No no....that's no good. Won't do.

I think it is the same thing seen in many fringe affiliations. It is about setting ones group apart from society, picking an unwinnable fight and then gnashing teeth and beating chests over the man trying to get you down.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:26 pm

It only requires common sense. I know..its not that common.

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:54 pm

a guy i know told me about this in england, though its called free man on the land.

I think the real prupose is to stop people simply letting gov. tell them they can do what they want, when they want to who they want.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:23 pm

sounds like anarchy to me

maryanimal · Post by **maryanimal** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:35 pm

This is what;s going on in Spo-cane warshington.

http://www.spokanarchy.com/

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:18 pm

When I was living in rural Butte county, one of the neighbors was involved with something like that. Probably because there was a lien against the other parcel of land (that he didn't live on) because he didn't pay child support. So, he met with the group and got all daring and didn't buy car insurance.
He got pulled over by the cops and went into his "natural born citizen" or whatever it was rap. He bought insurance. (I don't know exactly how he folded, but pretty much the moment authority looked in his direction he changed his tune.) So yea, the hypocritical stands in my experience.
I think that at some point it shades into Posse Comitas, which is a bad place to end up.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:03 am

Oh, sure, like you could appear in court and declare yourself "sovereign" and they just drop the chanrges like that. And I am a Hobbit.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:33 am

I'd be much more reassured by that if I hadn't seen how hairy your toes are.

BBadger · Post by **BBadger** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:53 am

They're just like the people who pick and choose what religious beliefs they follow at their convenience.

By all means, Sovereigners should be allowed to be sovereign. They'll simply need to rescind their citizenship and apply for the appropriate visa if they wish to stay here. As Sovereigneristan is currently not part of the Visa Waiver Program, such resident aliens will need the proper qualifications for extended stays in the US, including work visas, assuming their employer takes the proper measures to obtain such a visa. As with all resident aliens, Sovereigneris are still subject to US law while on US soil, and their property and income can and will be taxed as necessary.

Should the Sovereigneri visa holder wish to travel abroad from US soil, the proper forms must be filled out to ensure that the terms of their visa are not violated. Possession of a US visa does not, in an of itself permit a Sovereigneri to enter foreign nations, and the individual must contact the necessary embassies in Sovereigneristan for permission to visit other countries. Should a Sovereigneri overstay his or her visa time limit, forcible deportation to Sovereigneristan (international waters) may be necessary.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:08 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:Oh, sure, like you could appear in court and declare yourself "sovereign" and they just drop the chanrges like that. And I am a Hobbit.

there is conjecture and speculation related to this subject.
Evidently (and, I only know what I've heard, so can be very wrong), there is constitutional law, maritime law, and, congressional law ( I think those are the terms) and, they have different jurisdictions and powers. And, are routinely misused by our judicial system.
If, you know the "ins and outs", you can make certain declarations and demands, such that, it becomes such a pain, they will at times drop charges. All subjective of course.

the bottom line, though, is it seems it's all great, until TPTB get pissed, and then, you get thrown in jail, anyway..........unfair or not.....you're still there. Just like the IRS does.

you gotta pick your fights, IMHO.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:28 pm

ygmir wrote:...you gotta pick your fights, IMHO.

Amen, bro.

My approach is not to stand in the way of the oncoming tank.

Here's a book about true freedom that changed my life:
http://vishaldevgon.com/wp-content/uplo ... _world.pdf