Fine Art and the photo policy

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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Simon of the Playa
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:33 pm

+100
"we are all naked under our clothes"

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Roberto Dobbisano
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Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:38 pm

Photino Bird wrote:Hold on...
Before I ever said Weekend Warhol I was told, in no uncertain terms to "fuck off." I was also to that BM wasn't a good platform for contemporary fine art. I explained my side and said that while it is mostly Weekend Warhols (and I said it was a blunt term), I was going to do my thing, etc.

So to follow...

Ask a question.
Told to fuck off.
Told that BM is a very weak art platform.
Agreed by saying that yes, that is how it would be viewed by the fine art crowd.

And I am the condescending on?

A guy told me to fuck off within minutes. Someone else say BM is a weak art platform and when I agree, it gets dumped on me?

Seriously?

And "creepy"? Creepy is "fuck off" right off the bat.

My concerns are legit. I have to survive off of my work. So I am always doing work. Now, maybe I would never sell or even market any work from BM, but under the current contract, I am seemingly at risk of being sued should certain vague lines be crossed. That ain't kosher. The policy is very aggressive and exclusionary.

I would have no problem with working with them for some "tit for tat." Artists get to shoot (following the rules), and then maybe leave open the option for the Corp to get some use for promotion (as long as they credit the artist of course). Very usual and standard.

Then there is this update...

"I hereby appoint Burning Man as my representative to protect my intellectual property or privacy rights, recognizing that Burning Man has no obligation to take any such action."

Holy Steiglitz! Did I just hire a lawyer?

Come on....

Separate the wheat from the chaff in your language. Make it simple, and make it inviting. If I make $500 off a picture of an installation I built there am I "ripping off" this corporation?



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capjbadger
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Postby capjbadger » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:06 am

P Bird...

What part of "No Commerce" are you not understanding?

Don't expect to come out to make money. Period. If you want to take pics to sell, take them elsewhere.

Simple, yes?

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Sic Pup
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Postby Sic Pup » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:12 am

Photino Bird wrote:As I have said, I do installation and then do a photo series off of the interaction between the installation and the people I invite in to interact with it.


Just out of curiousity, what sort of installations do you do?

Were you really planning on it being by invitation only?
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Simon of the Playa
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:38 am

Boudoir Photography mostly...







Image
"we are all naked under our clothes"

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Bin Noddin
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Postby Bin Noddin » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:04 am

There are dozens-scores-hundreds of professional, fine-art photographers at Burning Man. While most of them record the event, some of them have put up interesting installations and photographed participants' interactions with the installations. Somehow they were able to work with the guidelines. You have some legitimate concerns about the scope of the rules and how they may affect your art and livelihood, but your best bet is to clarify things with the "Mistress". Stretch yourself a little and look beyond her silly title. Stretch yourself a little more to discover how you might participate in the event by creating and using art in a way you haven't done before.
"I have gobs of mustard and ketchup on the front of my shirt, which does not make me a hot dog." Sam A. McKeen

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Ugly Dougly
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:28 am

Bob wrote:Wow, haven't had an indignant photographer in here for a while.

Welcome to Burning Man! Now go the fuck home!


Would you speak to them like that in person, "Bob"?

I'd advise unscrambling your priorities.

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theCryptofishist
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Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:40 am

Photino Bird wrote: If for whatever reason BM prints 1,000 posters with my work on it (as they would legally be allowed to under this contract), the print series I did would be devalued.

And if the policy wasn't in place, 49,999 of us could each take as many pictures of your work as we liked and well "devalue" it in anyway we want to.
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some seeing eye
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Postby some seeing eye » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:49 am

Despite the wandering nature of this thread, the original poster does touch on some interesting issues. There is a whole body of participatory art booming in the museum-gallery-biennial-contemporary non-profit branch of the art world called social sculpture, new genre public art, social practice, urban interventions and several other names. Some BM art is running parallel to this.

And actually the corporation that is BM likely salivates at being acknowledged by that branch of the art world.

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Bob
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Postby Bob » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:08 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:
Bob wrote:Wow, haven't had an indignant photographer in here for a while.

Welcome to Burning Man! Now go the fuck home!


Would you speak to them like that in person, "Bob"?


Shucks, I was being polite, compared to how I've reacted to photographers with similar attitudes at the burn since 1996, including a few of the org's own photo staff. Amazing how a two-inch water hose will make a photographer taking unsolicited art pics jump out of his crisp cargo shorts.

I will admit that photographers on the whole have seemed more respectful in recent years, hopefully due to the Media dept's diligence. Nothing the OP has said gives me reason to think he doesn't intend anything but a big Fuck You to that.
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theCryptofishist
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Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:18 am

Anyone else getting the feeling that we've been trolled?
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Minxy
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Postby Minxy » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:20 am

Gosh, I kinda felt like we were trolling him. :D

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theCryptofishist
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Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:22 am

That also seems possible. I"m just hoping that the bird slept on it, decided it was a fool's game to post anymore and called the event directly, instead of spending time scolding people who have no control over the issue.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Minxy
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Postby Minxy » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:48 am

Yep. We told him several times where to go for a "real" answer. *shrugs*

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theCryptofishist
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Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:54 am

Minxy wrote:Yep. We told him several times where to go for a "real" answer. *shrugs*

There are none so blind as those who will not see. Which is ironic for a photographer. Hm. We could go all "art brut" and have blind, or at least blindfolded pictures taken for an installation, now that I think of it...
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Homiesinheaven
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Postby Homiesinheaven » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:56 pm

geez Photino Bird, you really need to lighten up. :) there's tons of photographers at BM that do exactly what you are looking to do (see below). the fine print is overly restrictive in my opinion to keep corporations and people away that want to just pop in and solely profit from the event. if you do a little research you'll find that the right attitude goes a long way. play nice, dont be so demanding and arrogant, and you'll get what you want.

read ALL of these articles:

http://blog.burningman.com/digitalrights/

and find out how these guys do it:

http://scottlondon.com/photo/burningman/index.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k1LK6pmozs
http://www.silentcolor.com/projects/burningman2008/

cheers!

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Simon of the Playa
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:16 pm

Homie, pearls before swine...save them.
"we are all naked under our clothes"

yogi berra.

Frida Be You & Me

A gift for the Playa

THIS YEARS POSTERS

2015 posters

burn,burn,burn 2016

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moonrise
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Postby moonrise » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:54 pm

I suspect P. Bird doesn't like what he/she read in the photog blog.

http://blog.burningman.com/digitalrights/

I like what that fucko guys says. Loosely quoted "Art, even RAW art is something there should be more of at burning man."

Right on fucko! Even though you're trapped on Tribe.
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oneeyeddick
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Postby oneeyeddick » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:56 pm

Minxy wrote:I'm guessing, but I'm pretty sure 99.9% of people out there would be offended if you hand them a business card.



I have a small stack of said business cards, and have tried to contact everyone of them, only two responded and gave me access to the pics of what they took which was my dick to begin with.
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.

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Simon of the Playa
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:01 pm

i posted them on BighotgreenCock.com already.
"we are all naked under our clothes"

yogi berra.

Frida Be You & Me

A gift for the Playa

THIS YEARS POSTERS

2015 posters

burn,burn,burn 2016

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Roberto Dobbisano
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Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:05 pm

"10 principles? you cant HANDLE the 10 principles..."

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Kinetik V
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Postby Kinetik V » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:18 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:Boudoir Photography mostly...







Image


Reposted...just because it made me laugh my fucking ass off.
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Minxy
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Postby Minxy » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:34 pm

I want to take a picture of your dick, OED. :D

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Simon of the Playa
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can i get a whut whut?

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:45 pm

man, this is some good thread drift.
"we are all naked under our clothes"

yogi berra.

Frida Be You & Me

A gift for the Playa

THIS YEARS POSTERS

2015 posters

burn,burn,burn 2016

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oneeyeddick
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Postby oneeyeddick » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:52 pm

Minxy wrote:I want to take a picture of your dick, OED. :D


No problem!

Come by Terminal City, I am in the Big RED bus, right behind the frontage of the Playawaste Raiders theme camp, come by anytime!

most people there just call me Dr. Jet., I would be easier to find if you just call me that on playa too.
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.

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oneeyeddick
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Postby oneeyeddick » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:55 pm



that's no prototype.
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.

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Savannah
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Postby Savannah » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:57 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:Homie, pearls before swine...save them.


I dunno; I enjoyed it. :lol:

(Homiesinheaven always seems both sane and calm. At least on ePlaya.)

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Simon of the Playa
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:01 pm

on playa as well...
"we are all naked under our clothes"

yogi berra.

Frida Be You & Me

A gift for the Playa

THIS YEARS POSTERS

2015 posters

burn,burn,burn 2016

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TomServo
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Postby TomServo » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:17 pm

Im gifting disposable cameras, to everyone I meet!
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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Dr Jet Sinister
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Postby Dr Jet Sinister » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:05 am

oneeyeddick wrote:
Minxy wrote:I want to take a picture of your dick, OED. :D


No problem!

Come by Terminal City, I am in the Big RED bus, right behind the frontage of the Playawaste Raiders theme camp, come by anytime!

most people there just call me Dr. Jet., I would be easier to find if you just call me that on playa too.


Again? Everyone already knows my dick is bigger than yours.
Suck it.
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