The SF vote on circumcision

[illy dilly]

/

Producing a child dose not make this human one 's property.

Inflecting your pagon cult onto a child is not your right.

I do not believe in child slavery.
I agree that having a child does not mean that child is the parent's "property".

But, if that same child were to go out and get in fights constantly, or start stealing, or be an all around bad kid, who would be blamed? The parents.
For the first 18 years of a person's life their parents are their guardians and it is their job to make what they believe is the best decision for that child. If that means they choose to circumcise that child, so be it.
Parents cannot be expected to be responsible and make the best decision for their children on the right hand, then on the left hand be accused of mutilation for a medical procedure that is commonly practiced with few long term risks.

[Snow]

But, if that same child were to go out and get in fights constantly, or start stealing, or be an all around bad kid, who would be blamed? The parents.
For the first 18 years of a person's life their parents are their guardians and it is their job to make what they believe is the best decision for that child. If that means they choose to circumcise that child, so be it.
Parents cannot be expected to be responsible and make the best decision for their children on the right hand, then on the left hand be accused of mutilation for a medical procedure that is commonly practiced with few long term risks.

I thought removing all my child's hands would keep them out of trouble, so there's no problem with me cutting them off right? Amputation is also a medical procedure that is commonly practiced with few long term risks.

[goathead]

Producing a child dose not make this human one 's property.

Inflecting your pagon cult onto a child is not your right.

but if you decide you don't want the child you can always abort it.

Which is worse a little snip of skin or no life at all?

Not your call ujh

[Elderberry]

Producing a child dose not make this human one 's property.

Inflecting your pagon cult onto a child is not your right.

but if you decide you don't want it you can always abort it.

Which is worse a little snip of skin or no life at all?

Not your call ujh

Not a valid comparison.

But on circumcision, I think I come down on the side of it being illegal for parents having it done to their kids without their consent; with the minimum age at which this can be done is whatever the legal age is to get a tattoo.

That this is a religious ritual is again beyond my comprehension. You have to have your dick cut to enter a covenant with god??? Why are almost ALL religions fixated on sex/sexuality/genitalia in some way, shape or form???

Now that's perverted if you ask me.

[goathead]

Not a valid comparison.

But on circumcision, I think I come down on the side of it being illegal for parents having it done to their kids without their consent; with the minimum age at which this can be done is whatever the legal age is to get a tattoo.

That this is a religious ritual is again beyond my comprehension. You have to have your dick cut to enter a covenant with god??? Why are almost ALL religions fixated on sex/sexuality/genitalia in some way, shape or form???

Now that's perverted if you ask me.

Bullshit.

Its a PERSONAL DECISION.
I don't know anyone who has suffered from it.

I don't like abortion, but IT"S NOT MY CALL is it.
And I do know women who have lived with the guilt the rest of their lives.

Your an atheist, what the fuck do you care

My parents are not religious so what reason should I blame them for
mutilating me?

Would rather deal with real problems then stupid SHIT out of SF.

and this is about as fucking dumb as it gets.

Circumcise or don't, should be the parents choice, not the states.

fucking dumb.

[Elderberry]

Not a valid comparison.

But on circumcision, I think I come down on the side of it being illegal for parents having it done to their kids without their consent; with the minimum age at which this can be done is whatever the legal age is to get a tattoo.

That this is a religious ritual is again beyond my comprehension. You have to have your dick cut to enter a covenant with god??? Why are almost ALL religions fixated on sex/sexuality/genitalia in some way, shape or form???

Now that's perverted if you ask me.

Bullshit.

Its a PERSONAL DECISION.
I don't know anyone who has suffered from it.

I don't like abortion, but IT"S NOT MY CALL is it.
And I do know women who have lived with the guilt the rest of their lives.

Your an atheist, what the fuck do you care

My parents are not religious so what reason should I blame them for
mutilating me?

Would rather deal with real problems then stupid SHIT out of SF.

and this is about as fucking dumb as it gets.

Circumcise or don't, should be the parents choice, not the states.

fucking dumb.

Sounds like you feel pretty strongly about this issue. I agree though, it is, or should be, about choice. The person's penis who's being waked off is the person that should have the choice.

Hey, here in West Hollywood it's illegal to get your cat declawed. I would have liked my penis to have been as protected by the law as my cat's claws!

[goathead]

Sounds like you feel pretty strongly about this issue. I agree though, it is, or should be, about choice. The person's penis who's being waked off is the person that should have the choice.

Hey, here in West Hollywood it's illegal to get your cat declawed. I would have liked my penis to have been as protected by the law as my cat's claws!

Don't really give a shit jk. Parents choice at birth, personal choice later on.
To compare it to sexual mutilation, amputations of limbs.
BULLSHIT.

If I need to put my dog down I am going to do it.
State or no state.

[unjonharley]

/

Religious ritral rebellion against a parent is common around the world..

Parents tormenting thair kids in the name of thair pago cult is a bunch of shit.

If some one wants to be a control freak.. Control some one your own age..
Leave the kids out of it..

Most religious ritural ends up sniffing in some ones underwear..

[goathead]

/

Religious ritral rebellion against a parent is common around the world..

Parents tormenting thair kids in the name of thair pago cult is a bunch of shit.

If some one wants to be a control freak.. Control some one your own age..
Leave the kids out of it..

Most religious ritural ends up sniffing in some ones underwear..

Bet more damage has been done giving kids stupid fucking names.

Why sniff the underwear when you can smell the hippy a mile away?

[goathead]

If some one wants to be a control freak.

Kind of funny coming from the person who wants to take away any choice.
Just who is the control freak?
Its not your choice.

[Elderberry]

Sounds like you feel pretty strongly about this issue. I agree though, it is, or should be, about choice. The person's penis who's being waked off is the person that should have the choice.

Hey, here in West Hollywood it's illegal to get your cat declawed. I would have liked my penis to have been as protected by the law as my cat's claws!

Don't really give a shit jk. Parents choice at birth, personal choice later on.
To compare it to sexual mutilation, amputations of limbs.
BULLSHIT.

If I need to put my dog down I am going to do it.
State or no state.

I'd bet money if a parent gave their 8 day old baby a full body tattoo or full body scarification ritual they would be arrested and thrown in jail for child abuse.

The only reason this is legal is because of the absurd religious aspect.

However, I will give you that there are probably more important things for our lawmakers to be spending their time on.

[goathead]

I'd bet money if a parent gave their 8 day old baby a full body tattoo or full body scarification ritual they would be arrested and thrown in jail for child abuse.

The only reason this is legal is because of the absurd religious aspect.

However, I will give you that there are probably more important things for our lawmakers to be spending their time on.

Is it your choice jk?
Do YOU want to take that choice away from parents?

[Elderberry]

I'd bet money if a parent gave their 8 day old baby a full body tattoo or full body scarification ritual they would be arrested and thrown in jail for child abuse.

The only reason this is legal is because of the absurd religious aspect.

However, I will give you that there are probably more important things for our lawmakers to be spending their time on.

Is it your choice jk?
Do YOU want to take that choice away from parents?

Just for the sake of argument (discussion), where do you draw the line regarding what parents are "allowed" to do with/to their own children?

It used to be legal for kids to work as slave labor, now it's illegal because "society" has come to believe that isn't in the best interest of the children, to spite what the parents might want.

It is already unexceptable for parents who's religion prohibits medical treatment to withhold treatment from their children if said treatment could save the child's life.

There are already countless examples of "parental rights" being usurped by government.

I think in a more enlightened society, it won't be a big leap to putting restraints on infant circumcision.

The only skin I have in this game is that I wish I hadn't been circumcised. Im thinking the numbers of other men that wished they hadnt either will be growing, and those are the people who will be making the laws. Puns intended.

[goathead]

Just for the sake of argument (discussion), where do you draw the line regarding what parents are "allowed" to do with/to their own children?

or how soon you draw the line, they can abort them, and so your worried about a little foreskin?

It used to be legal for kids to work as slave labor, now it's illegal because "society" has come to believe that isn't in the best interest of the children, to spite what the parents might want.

You haven't been around a farm much have you.

It is already unexceptable for parents who's religion prohibits medical treatment to withhold treatment from their children if said treatment could save the child's life.

and again comparing a life to a little bit of skin. Big jump here jk. If the kid gets infected and dies from the parents refusing treatment put them in jail.

There are already countless examples of "parental rights" being usurped by government.

and some I agree with, and some I don't.

I think in a more enlightened society, it won't be a big leap to putting restraints on infant circumcision.

enlightened society, LMAO......

The only skin I have in this game is that I wish I hadn't been circumcised. Im thinking the numbers of other men that wished they hadnt either will be growing, and those are the people who will be making the laws. Puns intended.

Sort of like wishing it flopped to the right instead of the left?

[unjonharley]

/

So, If some one wants to snip a bit off a baby..

It's not the public votes call..

If I want to wack off a triger finger.

The pro snippers make the call"no"

Where are you drawing the line . How much can be wacked ..

[goathead]

/

So, If some one wants to snip a bit off a baby..

It's not the public votes call..

If I want to wack off a triger finger.

The pro snippers make the call"no"

Where are you drawing the line . How much can be wacked ..

and if they don't even want it born is it your choice?

[unjonharley]

/

So, If some one wants to snip a bit off a baby..

It's not the public votes call..

If I want to wack off a triger finger.

The pro snippers make the call"no"

Where are you drawing the line . How much can be wacked ..

and if they don't even want it born is it your choice?

I am not my brothers keeper..
BUT If i see a child be abused I will and have take steps to stop the abuse.

Altering a baby for life is abuse..

I suffered religious abuse as a kid..Those ophages and homes were nuts with thair self rightous crap.. My attempts to escape at age 4-8 were viewed as needing the devil beat out of me.. Then kneeing while they prayed for forgivness for ruining an eye or haveing to lock me in the celler so peole could not see the welts. I worked for childerens services with abused babys and toddlers.. Religious abuse is one of the most offten comitted.. We all snicker about the PKs we have known that went wild or turned to crime.. It's rebellion from the iron fist of religion..

So where are the lines drawen?

[Elderberry]

Abortion has nothing to do with parental choice regarding a child, which a fetus is not. Which is why abortion is not an appropriate comparison to use in this discussion. It deserves a discussion of its own, so let's not cloud the issue at hand. Again, pun intended.

[Bob]

/
circumcision is a sex assult on a child..

There is no difference if the child is 12yr old and in a 3000 year old cult.

As Earl Butz said about the Pope -- He no playa da game, he no make-a da rules.

It's as useless as Frisco trying to outlaw selling goldfish and hamsters. Fix the potholes first.

[goathead]

I am not my brothers keeper..
BUT If i see a child be abused I will and have take steps to stop the abuse.

Altering a baby for life is abuse..

I suffered religious abuse as a kid..Those ophages and homes were nuts with thair self rightous crap.. My attempts to escape at age 4-8 were viewed as needing the devil beat out of me.. Then kneeing while they prayed for forgivness for ruining an eye or haveing to lock me in the celler so peole could not see the welts. I worked for childerens services with abused babys and toddlers.. Religious abuse is one of the most offten comitted.. We all snicker about the PKs we have known that went wild or turned to crime.. It's rebellion from the iron fist of religion..

So where are the lines drawen?

Bullshit, this is more about you and your life on this issue.
An excuse to get even with those who abused you.
Save those from real abuse then. Good for you.
Have no tolerance for real child/spouse/or any other abuse myself.

This vote is SF is bullshit though.

[unjonharley]

/
circumcision is a sex assult on a child..

There is no difference if the child is 12yr old and in a 3000 year old cult.

As Earl Butz said about the Pope -- He no playa da game, he no make-a da rules.

It's as useless as Frisco trying to outlaw selling goldfish and hamsters. Fix the potholes first.

But you will have to admitt.. I sure know how to stir shit..

[goathead]

Abortion has nothing to do with parental choice regarding a child, which a fetus is not. Which is why abortion is not an appropriate comparison to use in this discussion. It deserves a discussion of its own, so let's not cloud the issue at hand. Again, pun intended.

Maybe not for you, makes perfect sense to me though.
Seem comparisons to sexual abuse, amputations, full body tattoo's.
But compare it to a fetus and well that can't be compared to?
One's in the womb, one is out of the womb.
Hypocrite.

[Elderberry]

Abortion has nothing to do with parental choice regarding a child, which a fetus is not. Which is why abortion is not an appropriate comparison to use in this discussion. It deserves a discussion of its own, so let's not cloud the issue at hand. Again, pun intended.

Maybe not for you, makes perfect sense to me though.
Seem comparisons to sexual abuse, amputations, full body tattoo's.
But compare it to a fetus and well that can't be compared to?
One's in the womb, one is out of the womb.
Hypocrite.

We disagree on when life begins. That does not make me a hypocrite. But that does support why I don't feel abortion belongs in this discussion.

[goathead]

Abortion has nothing to do with parental choice regarding a child, which a fetus is not. Which is why abortion is not an appropriate comparison to use in this discussion. It deserves a discussion of its own, so let's not cloud the issue at hand. Again, pun intended.

Maybe not for you, makes perfect sense to me though.
Seem comparisons to sexual abuse, amputations, full body tattoo's.
But compare it to a fetus and well that can't be compared to?
One's in the womb, one is out of the womb.
Hypocrite.

We disagree on when life begins. That does not make me a hypocrite. But that does support why I don't feel abortion belongs in this discussion.

LMAO, we could disagree about that.

[ygmir]

this has got to be about the toughest discussion (for me) I've seen.

How, the hell, do you approve the government, telling anyone how to live? How to raise their kids.

But, how do you look the other way, when abuse is taking place.

The problem, is, who dictates the parameters of "abuse".

Going to the dentist is a bad scene. Or, can be.
My parents, took me to a dentist, until I was about 12, who didn't believe in Novocain for kids. So they'd strap my arms to the chair, the doc would sometimes straddle my legs so I couldn't kick around, and, the nurse would hold my forehead, and press against the headrest to keep my head still, while they drilled and pulled teeth.

the abuse thing, gets so "grey" in the middle zones.........yeah, we all know extremes, but, well.......it's a dang tough call.
I tend to want gov. out of private lives, and decisions, though.

[unjonharley]

Bullshit, this is more about you and your life on this issue.
An excuse to get even with those who abused you.
Save those from real abuse then. Good for you.
Have no tolerance for real child/spouse/or any other abuse myself.

Nope, Got even.. Took 58 years.. Walked up on that son of a bitch in his garden at sunrise one morning.. I said "I'm jon berning and i'm still alive". He almost swolled his face,, His fucked up sister couldn't say anything except 'I'm sorry I'm so sorry" over and over. My sister asked if i had spit in his/hers face.. No I had not.. Those people knew the wrong they did and it had been on them for all those years. The other main SOB in this story died hard.. Heart attack begging for help while his own family just stood and watched.. I understand it took a couple of hours. ( You live mean, you die mean)

I call bullshit on religious assult on a baby/child..

[Bob]

Once you're past 40, who's going to notice the difference?

[Kinetik V]

Oh. My. Gawd!

Tea all over the laptop.

Perfect Bob. Just perfect!

[Bob]

He's got tendon problems, too.

[unjonharley]

Once you're past 40, who's going to notice the difference?

Damn it Bob.. You promised you wouldn't show my picture to any one..