Effective Online Communication

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Sep 11, 2003 7:21 pm

Isotopia wrote:do you think it's possible to make the young calf's eyes change color (like your avatar does) while its nose is up PJs ass?

Whaddya mean, "young calf?" That's a fully-grown adult COW. Sheesh, what sort of pervert do you take me for? Everybody knows what young unweaned calves are for.

RebA! · Post by **RebA!** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 7:51 pm

or better yet!

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 8:19 pm

RebA I don't think I've fully appreciated before what an evil genius you are.[/i]

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 8:23 pm

You know, the irony and sarcastic wit of some folks around here is may be the largest part of what I come here for. I'd hate it if anyone toned it down for the sake of effective communication and so raw of the playa I don't know if I can (my internal editors seem to have broke out there this year).

It probably *IS* elitist and naive but I find I only really want to communicate with people who have the creativity to recognize it and the spine to stand up to it.

It has been harsh though - maybe that will mellow out some.

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 8:48 pm

as much as i hate to admit it - harshness is a part of it. much of what e-playans have to say to each other and the world at large is harsh, yet laced with wit and levity. it's exactly this bone-crushing reality check that makes it what it is; great fun and thought provoking.

the princess[/i]

herself · Post by **herself** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:32 pm

Somewhat embarrassed

This forum lacks attention

Because of respect

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:31 am

Sigh... sad that people like "girlie" don't have the patience to hang for more than a week on a forum before telling the regulars how to act. He/she'll be gone in another week when the Lilith Faire or something comes up.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:36 am

Speaking of Emily Post, this was written by a long-time Burning Man attendee:

http://www.templetons.com/brad/emily.html

PJ · Post by PJ » Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:41 am

RebA! wrote: or better yet!

Reba, you're a graphical genius. I've saved both of those animations for the day when they're needed.

Next, somebody will have to animate that guy doing the cow exam...

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:31 am

Next, somebody will have to animate that guy doing the cow exam...

The master plan was to add a chicken humping the left cheek. Feel free to pick up where I felt off, it seems I can't even get my avatar in action.

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:35 am

I hesitate to post the actual picture because the new eplaya has been wonderfully ass free thus far. Here is the link in case you would like to get prepared for retaliation.
http://members.cox.net/duffb/assexam.jpg

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 9:32 am

You know, a simple Italian gesture or two would suffice.

RebA! · Post by **RebA!** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:00 am

Reba, you're a graphical genius. I've saved both of those animations for the day when they're needed.

Next, somebody will have to animate that guy doing the cow exam...

I wanted to put in a tongue in on the 2nd one, but I figured it would be to hard to animate. Maybe some other day.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:57 am

> wonderfully ass free thus far

Oh no, my dear, you just missed it. Probably because of the lack of a way
to follow unread threads.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:00 am

wonderfully ass free thus far

wonderful is a matter of perspective

and no site could be considered ass free with PJ's avatar around

Post by **actiongrl** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:15 am

>The general feeling is that the goal was simple growth in E-Playa population numbers at all costs.

"At all costs" isn't quite right. That's ignoring the fact that some folks actually like the new format, and that changes are being made. Hell, the office itself just reopened on Wednesday - two days ago. Cut a staff a break, hey?

But yes, the project would like to see the Burning Man BBS used by more participants, and in more ways. So, why is this bad? It seems to me that opening up the forum and making it more useful (well, so far, I find it more useful, so there - there is still bugginess, but I'm a Virgo, so I like the organization of it much better) means more people will be connected and more information will be sliding around in the universe.

Not that I didn't always laugh when the picture of Trey's ass got posted again, but I fail to see how TRYING, anyway, to expand the ePlaya's usefulness negates the drifty conversation? Granted, I just started using the eplaya again, and I was already a fan of PHPBB, but while I realize some things just aren't working yet, I think the furor over thinking it meant someone was purposely "shutting out" some users is rather comical.

I hope that after this initial period of adjustment, all "sides" will be happy.

Also, as to the weird vibe on the ePlaya vs. how I know Burners really are, I have never understood it, and I hope I have never contributed to it.

girlie · Post by **girlie** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:40 am

>>Sigh... sad that people like "girlie" don't have the patience to hang for more than a week on a forum before telling the regulars how to act.

Sorry Bob, i think you misunderstood the intent of my initial post. I was simply trying to open up a dialog on the subject. Perhaps i should have waiting longer on it, but believe me, i'm not the type to tell anyone how to act. If you are an ass i might say "hey, you are an ass", and in some cases i might ask you to consider not being an ass, but i'm not gonna tie you down, put flowers in your hair and force you to say please and thank you all the time. (i reserve that behaviour for the *special* people in my life :-)

I figured folks here would be self-assured enough to be able to handle hearing other people's opinions on how the forum appears to newcomers and accept hearing some reminders on other ways to communicate. (And most have been) Plus i was curious as to why the fighting here sometimes seems to stand in the way of actually exchanging ideas.

I feel much better now that i've heard from others that there apparently has been a recent spike in the negativity here. The reasons for that seem to make sense, and hopefully a balance is in the process of being formed.

>>He/she'll be gone in another week when the Lilith Faire or something comes up.

I am very much a she. And nice try, but you'll probably be stuck with me for a while.

RebA! · Post by **RebA!** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:53 am

I'm sorry I cannot be effective online commincation, until i am able to know where exactly in a thread I left off.

yesterday I clicked on a link that i had never read before and all the posts were "marked" that I had read them. What sense does that make?

ANother point. Another thread, i totally missed posts and had to "backtrack" 2 whole pages to figure out where I left off. How is that effective.

it isnt. It wastes time, it wastes effort and it tries my patience.

Looking at the board now. I see various threads with 1.2.3.5.6. etc pages under them. From looking at that. How am I supposed to know which page i am to click on. HOW am i to know where I left off in the thread, as opppsed to where it THINKS I left off..
As it seems that even if I personally dont read the thread after a certain time, it makes it look like I have. Missing important information.

Very NOT effective communication at all.

"but i'm not bitter"

Post by **actiongrl** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:58 am

agreed. These things are sucky, but hopefully they can be fixed.

jaywalker · Post by **jaywalker** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:47 pm

Bob wrote:Sigh... sad that people like "girlie" don't have the patience to hang for more than a week on a forum before telling the regulars how to act. He/she'll be gone in another week when the Lilith Faire or something comes up.

Um. not true.

Girlie is a pretty incredible person that is quite level-headed and will consider all opinions. She is usually a pretty good voice of reason. And she was never telling, she was inquisitive to get a feel.

And she's not a hippy! Quite a snazzy dresser, actually. She is as serious in building community, as I am when it comes to free booze!

III · Post by **III** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:49 pm

not that she really needs it, but i'll vouch for girlie as well. good brain.

clandyone · Post by **clandyone** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 2:03 pm

Another vote for girlie here. She makes good points, and has serious figurative cojones. Brava.

I had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to the OP myself, but having thought about it a bit there's no reason why we can't be tart and scathing and also humane. Just my $0.02.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 3:25 pm

> here's no reason why we can't be tart and scathing and also humane

Fuck the humane bit. It's all about clearly communicating your tart
scathingness so there can be <i>no doubt whatsoever</i> that the
person has been scathed.

Oh, and knowing when to be tart and when to just be clear is a good
start too.

Post by **actiongrl** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:14 pm

Big vouch for the Girlie Girl over here, too. Hardly some stranger we're talking to.

PJ · Post by PJ » Fri Sep 12, 2003 7:25 pm

actiongrl wrote:
PJ wrote:...The general feeling is that the goal was simple growth in E-Playa population numbers at all costs...

"At all costs" isn't quite right. That's ignoring the fact that some folks actually like the new format, and that changes are being made. Hell, the office itself just reopened on Wednesday - two days ago. Cut a staff a break, hey?.

Thus far the biggest fans of the new format are newcomers; the extent of their experience with the old BBS might be limited. Or they might have tried to sign-up to the old system years ago and became confused--nobody has polled new users find out. My impression is that newcomers are comfortable with the new BBS because it mimics the look and feel of many blogs and other new BBSs.

The loudest complainers have remained aware that the LLC staff is only now returning to the real world of offices and complaining customers, and that anybody that can fix the bugs is a volunteer that not only has real responsibilities, they're winding down from B.Man too. We're annoying, but we're patient and realistic.

actiongrl wrote:...the project would like to see the Burning Man BBS used by more participants, and in more ways. So, why is this bad?

Newbies are a good thing. However driving away loyal users is a bad thing. If the overall quantity of users goes up but nobody cares to notice that all your long-time users went away because they don't like the new product your success is mixed. But nobody is paying to use your E-Playa service so there's little real-world incentive to say, "We screwed up: too many people don't like what we've produced" like there would be if you were a company that was selling the product instead of giving it away. (Of course it's too early to condemn the new BBS--it might be possible to tweak it to make old users as happy as they were in the former online community.)

actiongrl wrote:...It seems to me that opening up the forum and making it more useful (well, so far, I find it more useful, so there - there is still bugginess, but I'm a Virgo, so I like the organization of it much better) means more people will be connected and more information will be sliding around in the universe.

"Information" comes from a well-indexed FAQ. "Community" comes from creative chaos. Both are a good thing and there should be room for them. I realize that programmers just hate it when customers are allowed to do a compare-and-contrast study of old software vs. new software but that's how I'd let people decide which BBS is best for their chosen purpose. If those aching for an online Burning Man community a la the old E-Playa's General Discussion section, it'd be worth the effort to replicate that atmosphere here. (Maybe in the basement and not on the carefully-indexed and organized section that appeals so much to newcomers.)

Simply adding a "General Discussion" link is merely a start. There were fundamental structural characteristics--which may have been completely accidental--that lent themselves to meandering chats that frequently contained world-shattering insight. ("World" being "inside our bent little minds"...but it was very important to some of us.) I'd need to see the old system beside the new to quantify just what I think those graphical and textual differences are.

actiongrl wrote:...I think the furor over thinking it meant someone was purposely "shutting out" some users is rather comical.

So how come it's not comical to so many of your loyal members? Imagine you're hosting a party of old friends and new neighbors at your new house. If the old friends leave after three minutes that's a clue that something is making them uncomfortable.

actiongrl wrote:I hope that after this initial period of adjustment, all "sides" will be happy.

My hope is that "happy" doesn't merely mean that the unhappy people simply quit coming back. I really like the people I met here. Their departure would leave a big sad empty hole in my continuing Burning Man experience.

actiongrl wrote:Also, as to the weird vibe on the ePlaya vs. how I know Burners really are, I have never understood it, and I hope I have never contributed to it.

My impression has always been that, like Burning Man itself, some people "get" the E-Playa, some don't, and some start off feeling out-of-balance but "get it" after awhile.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:13 pm

oh my god - the "spirit of the eplaya"

Fuck yer day!

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:16 pm

Not to say I didn't agree with everything you just said PJ

It's just that I suddenly saw a few parellels between the starry-eyed newbie adoration of burning man and my own starry-eyed remembrances of the old eplaya...

PetsUntilEaten · Post by **PetsUntilEaten** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:02 pm

1 - almost shot mac n cheese thru my nose when i read the intial girlie post

2 - i'm computer/net retarded so other than format i don't feel a big difference in the new vs. old eplaya - sorry guys.

3 - i think that unlike the playa, some people who waltz in here haven't necessarily commited to even one bit of the ideals, work, or planning that burners go through - so sometimes its hard to greet them as if they're old friends and not some wanker - especially if they're acting like a total wanker. or a troll. or an idiot.

people come here for easy answers - and since the regulars are the defacto "Playa Info" - sometimes newbies get a very playa info / brcpo answer. unfortunately - bob is one of the rudest guys & also the most helpful - how unplaya-like is that?

4 - i'm jealous that herself & i's ocassional pleas for people to ease up were well ingored while this excessive earnest post of girlie's was actually listened to. so bitter . . .

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:41 pm

PetsUntilEaten wrote:1 - almost shot mac n cheese thru my nose when i read the intial girlie post

Oh, you're so much sexier in my eyes now. <purrrrrrrrrrrrrr>

{quote}4 - i'm jealous that herself & i's ocassional pleas for people to ease up were well ingored while this excessive earnest post of girlie's was actually listened to. so bitter . . .[/quote]

don't be bitter. give me a cigarette, cocktail and hug, and I'll be nice to you too

PetsUntilEaten · Post by **PetsUntilEaten** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:12 pm

who or what is a "Guest" ?

Effective Online Communication

Hey Trey, your avatar is blinky

Re: Hey Trey, your avatar is blinky