To preserve the Burn... we must...

[TD-2441]

I'm stuck in the UK watching the live feed - it's night on the Playa at the minute and I wish I was there. I reckon that the live feed will attract more and more people to try BM each year, for how can you NOT be tempted by this oasis of neon and propane? It looks SO beautiful anyone with an adventurous spirit will be thinking "I *HAVE* to try that!"

As I sit here and watch the feed I too wonder "How big can the Burn get?" When will it reach maximum capacity for the Playa to cope with, the roads, the traffic? At what point will BM say "absolutely NO MORE people - we max out at 60k", or whatever. And then gradually as more and more people want to come, the rush for tickets - even with the great web queueing system, will turn nightmarish. Many people will miss out on tickets and be bitterly disappointed How can you feed the animal if it wants to eat more and get fatter, but if it does it will burst out of it's pen? How can you keep happy the thousands of people who want to attend but who have trouble getting tickets as the years go by and demand rockets? Will "topping out" the number of attendees at BM eventually be the death of the event?

Going to the "Nowhere" event is not an option for me, I just don't think it'd be the same as BRC. Two cities on the same Playa? No way, FAR too many people at once and a logistical nightmare.

[Lady V]

Agree, TD. I watched ustream now and then from Monday through tonight, and had the same thoughts. My friend just returned this morning--he hadn't been since 2006, left just before the man burned; felt there were just too many people now, too many RVs, Anniversary & Birthday streets were inches deep in dust from traffic. He camped out at the end of the end of the world (which used to be somewhat peaceful), but it was like a rave out there--6' and 7' speakers lining the street. People shoved and pushed him to get closer to the horse burn, knocked him off his bike. He is 6'4", in good shape, polite. He went out early to see the FLG fireworks and was shoved aside by some hula hoopers who came at the last minute... on and on. Examples of burner (vs tourist) behavior, too--of course!--but he was surprised at how much has devolved in 6 years with 15K more people. The last 2 streets were mostly empty, though, so maybe that's where the additional 17K are going to go.

We are going back next year with our small camp, Hearts Gone Wild. Probably we will arrive early and leave early.

[TD-2441]

There is still a part of the city reserved for no sound systems though isn't there? Only when you arrive at 3am and everythig is dark, you can't always find the street where it is

Crowd etiquette for a lot of things seems to be going out the window, I've been going to live gigs for years and the aggressiveness, territorial behaviour and sense of entitlement among the crowds is getting much worse. The whole "I've queued here for 4 hours you can't push past me" thing. FFS life's too short.....as yet though I've never had any bad crowd experiences at BM, though in 2010 I did overhear one girl screeching that she'd been sitting at the man perimiter for 4 hours in a dust storm on burn night so nobody was going to stand in front of her......

[theCryptofishist]

There is still a part of the city reserved for no sound systems though isn't there? Only when you arrive at 3am and everythig is dark, you can't always find the street where it is.

YOu need to reserve room in Hushville before you arrive and even that doesn't guarantee space in a place granted less land than its potential population would merit. And after they weren't placed this year, I wouldn't be counting on staying there.

[Lady V]

? Hushville wasn't placed? But I saw them on the laminated city map posted all over.

[theCryptofishist]

Hushville wasn't placed. There was an outcry. A smaller Hushville was placed. Look at the placement threads in the 2011 Theme Camp sub-forum for more.

[Lady V]

Hushville wasn't placed. There was an outcry. A smaller Hushville was placed. Look at the placement threads in the 2011 Theme Camp sub-forum for more.

Thanks for the... interesting... history. Yikes.

[hookahdude]

The only thing two cities would do is cause the deconstruction of the Burning Man ethos.

It is in human nature to become competetive. First is is friendly. Then people start to circle wagons. Then they start to fall into old habits. Two cities would eventually evolve into a situation where the one tribe becomes two. The original and the copy - the old fashioned and the new blood.. Soon it becomes Original VS Copy - then North VS South.

BRC is in no way a city that needs to divide. It has created a life cycle of division with the Regional events. Yes everything must evolve and it is in a way that is unique to this organism.

I had tickets and was unable to go - I sold them at face value. I bought my tickets in January because I had a commitment to go and had planned for the cash to buy the tickets way ahead of time - then life bit me on the ass. But I had tickets because I PLANNED on purchasing them as early as possible and did not ASSUME that there would be tickets available at the gate or even a month or two before. Watching the growth over the last few years - is anybody really suprised this happened?

I mean - really?

Just my two cents - but Imay be a complete asshat. (Standard disclaimer)

[Cheyenne]

I thought it was going to be much busier than I actually saw - we were placed at 3 and espl. and to be honest - after the first night, I wasn't even having any trouble sleeping in the van. Compared to any other temporary event here in Europe, the space was a dream... I was expecting to be pushed around like mad.. but it didn't happen - I was a bit concerned about the number of people riding around without ANY bike/personal lights on however - that was just damn dangerous..I really wished some of them had been knocked of their bikes!

I agree that Nowhere would never be a replacement for BM - although I'd like to go at least once...

[theCryptofishist]

...smother it in pine resin and have it fossilize as amber.

[theCryptofishist]

Has someone said:

...We must destroy it

, yet? Because if not, well, we are forgetting our history.

[RedHeaven]

Nice. Desssstroooyy. I decided this year that I am going down with the ship

[Simon of the Playa]

whattya thinking, Masada? or maybe Rhodes...

[goathead]

Krakatoa

[goathead]

[ygmir]

illudium Q-38 explosive space modulator! ...