dropping out

[jaytro4]

Hi
I went to Burning Man for the first time this year, and given my experience, thought that maybe this might be the only place I can talk about this... I'm kinda desperate.

I made a very stupid mistake and read a lot of Daniel Quinn while growing up: Ishmael, My Ishmael, the Story of B, etc. These books changed the way I looked at the world and made me realize that we need to change. We need to change a LOT: we've basically got one global society living in a certain destructive way, and it's accelerating at an exponential rate. There are TOO MANY people on the planet, and we live in ways that are killing entire ecosystems and altering the world's climate.

I have always felt like there's something wrong, that we all live distracted lives, caring more about watching television and making money than connecting to one another. Commerce is a drug; you need to make money to live the life you want to lead, even though it's just a piece of paper that has no intrinsic value. People just buy whatever advertising tells them to, expecting that their laptop or their handbag or their car or their house will make them happy, and then those things break or they upgrade and the cycle starts anew.

I have watched my parents work their asses off so that they could send me through college without debt, and now I watch them working so that they can retire and travel around the world. I have experienced school systems that teach people who conquered what when and how to multiply unreal numbers, but left people with no idea how to really take care of themselves, what plants are edible, how to start a fire with a pair of sticks, and when to tell that a natural disaster is about to take place (hint: if all the animals around you are freaking out, something bad is about to happen, go in the same direction as them). I see a country where people spend more time talking to each other over the internet than they do face to face, and where people fight the government providing basic health care for all it's citizens. I see neighborhoods where people don't know who lives next door.

I don't want to be a part of this system. I think it is unnatural, and unhealthy, and I don't have the patience to work to change it from the inside, because I don't want to participate in it. However, if I were to drop out and live off the grid on land that i didn't own, I'd be considered a squatter and could get sent to prison if caught. If I did own land though, then I'd be expected to make money so that i could pay taxes on the land to the government.

I need there to be other people out there that feel like I do, who want to leave so badly, who could help me think up how to leave society. I can't be the only one who thinks that Christopher McCandless had it right, he just brought too few people along, right??

Please help me. I just feel so lost. I don't know where to go from here. How do you drop out of the world??

[Savannah]

It is commonly advised around these parts not to make any sudden moves immediately after a Burn, but to allow a few weeks to really know your own mind while you take care of your physical needs, do your laundry, stow your gear, think, and write. The Burn can be an overwhelming experience that forces you to recognize a desire (and a need) for change in your life. But it's wisest to do it in a way that does not cut off your nose to spite your face. You will not forget your inspiration in that amount of time. It may morph or twist. Or you may change your serotonin levels and decide you have a different goal.

If you find that you still want to "drop out" after three weeks, do it a piece at a time. Are you already an accomplished gardener and hunter? Can you chop down trees? Do you fish? How are your fire-building skills? . . . Do it with skill, not desperately, not randomly. And don't think that you must do it so utterly that anything less than "perfection" is failure. There are many, many shades of grey here.

(A funny thing: being in prison for squatting would be the ultimate in dropping back in!)

[Eric]

I can't be the only one who thinks that Christopher McCandless had it right, he just brought too few people along, right??

McCandless went out into the wilderness with no solid, functioning, practical knowledge of how to survive & he died because of it. You can romanticize him all you want, but his death rests solely on the fact that he thought he was smarter than nature and that a few books could replace actual experience.

Savannah has it right:

If you find that you still want to "drop out" after three weeks, do it a piece at a time. Are you already an accomplished gardener and hunter? Can you chop down trees? Do you fish? How are your fire-building skills? . . . Do it with skill, not desperately, not randomly. And don't think that you must do it so utterly that anything less than "perfection" is failure. There are many, many shades of grey here.

Think carefully about your decisions (the Burn has a way of altering peoples perceptions of the world) and if you do decide to "drop out" learn how to first. Practice the skills you'll need to survive before you actually need them- you will have a much better chance of survival then.

[Ugly Dougly]

If you can't find a reasonable alternative society to drop in to, then make one.

The image of the individual living wild and free is partially a myth. Small societies have always done much better at that. And they stick together better if they have some sort of shared relgious or cultural affiliation.

[BAS]

Both Eric and Savannah offer good advice-- jumping right in to dropping out can be lethal. I can understand the desire, although I have never really tired it (I'm too dependent upon Prozac and other meds.) There are communities of people who have more or less dropped out of mainstream society; for example, Slab City in California (which was in both the book and movie versions of Into the Wild.) Slab City, or somewhere like it, is probably as far as I would go toward dropping out (I'm keeping that open as a retirement option, for what its worth.) You need to weight the pros and cons (and risks) carefully before making too major a move.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[mdmf007]

As you can see, dropping out of society is a choice you need to really, really think about. It sounds like a change is necessary - maybe it does not have to be as drastic as your thinking. Travel is a great way to recharge the batteries and put things into perspective.

Like Savannah suggests, take some time before making that decision. If its right today, it will be just as right in a month.

mdmf

[hookahdude]

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/of ... _the_mesa/
One possibility. Gives a fairly unromanticized look at what you are talking about. Not so much the "wilderness" adventure, but a realistic look at community in an off-the-grid environment.

Aspects are appealing - others - not so much.

[maryanimal]

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/of ... _the_mesa/
One possibility. Gives a fairly unromanticized look at what you are talking about. Not so much the "wilderness" adventure, but a realistic look at community in an off-the-grid environment.

Aspects are appealing - others - not so much.

If that's dropping out, I think I'll stay in. Maybe I'll have to watch the whole thing because my questions are:
How do they take care of essentail needs?
Are they in welfare? Disability?
Do they hunt for food?
where do they get money for guns and ammo? Booze and smokes?

I'm sorry but that isn't a life I would want.

[Isotopia]

Step back and re-read Savannah's post.

Give yourself some time, breathe for a few days/weeks and come back to your question.

Good luck with whatever purposeful and honorable direction you choose.

[theCryptofishist]

You can't really drop out. There simply isn't a place on earth where you're not part of the global society. Kalahari bushmen and Australian Aborigines aren't actually very far removed, and their way of life includes a lifetime of skill building that you don't have.
If you want to do something like permaculture, you have to earn the money to buy the land and you're likely to have to continue to function in the greater society while you transition. I spend two years in the foothills of CA before I came back with my tail between my legs. I know a family who lasted longer, and now have to worry about having enough money to retire on.
It's all very romantic to contemplate dropping out, but did you know that Emerson ate lunch with his mother, at her house, regularly when he was living on Waldon Pond?

[maryanimal]

Step back and re-read Savannah's post.

Give yourself some time, breathe for a few days/weeks and come back to your question.

Good luck with whatever purposeful and honorable direction you choose.

+100

[Elderberry]

I suggest therapy. You need to get back in touch with reality, no matter how ugly it might seem, life wasn't meant to be easy.

[hookahdude]

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/of ... _the_mesa/
One possibility. Gives a fairly unromanticized look at what you are talking about. Not so much the "wilderness" adventure, but a realistic look at community in an off-the-grid environment.

Aspects are appealing - others - not so much.

If that's dropping out, I think I'll stay in. Maybe I'll have to watch the whole thing because my questions are:
How do they take care of essentail needs?
Are they in welfare? Disability?
Do they hunt for food?
where do they get money for guns and ammo? Booze and smokes?

I'm sorry but that isn't a life I would want.

Lol.. Kinda my point.

[gyre]

You drop out by playing the game differently.

You don't have to live an agrarian life.
There are some long running communes and societies that have done this for a long time.
Try visiting one.
Pick cotton a couple of days.
I never had any romantic notions about farming, but two hours in a cotton field would have removed any if I had.
People are serious farmers because of an emotional attachment to it.

There are many ways to drop out, even on the grid, but you may not find it as satisfying as effecting change.

There is a lot written about this from Wells to Heinlein to Bacon.
Spend a few years thinking about this one.

Know yourself.
The hardest battle.

[BBadger]

Honestly? Cry me a fucking river. The people who start rejecting the world around them in this way are usually the ones who have never had to endure any real problems in their lives in the first place. The description of your past life fits this pattern almost exactly.

Going back to the land will give you nothing. Your problem isn't with your survival skills, or mankind's. Your problem is perspective, especially from observing rather than experiencing. Don't naively assume that the world is the problem. If you're the only one feeling a dysfunction, chances are that you're the source. Don't tear down what you have until you fully understand what you're going to replace it with.

Want some perspective? Go join the Peace Corp or something that'll expose yourself to the way others live, so you gain an appreciation for the civilization you live in, and the civilization others do. You'll encounter people who don't even have time to worry about such trivial matters as you've just laid out now. People who worry about their next bite to eat, people who must watch what they say for fear of being imprisoned, people with no means of advancement because they can't read or write, people who hear gunfire and explosions day in and day out, people who have buried members of their own families with their own hands. Maybe then the skills and knowledge you find so little value from here will be put to use, a luxury that others simply have no access to.

[goathead]

+100

[666isMONEY]

Dropping out is a good idea, unfortunately U can't completely drop out until the Babylonian money system no longer exists. (There are many famous people who believe(d) in eliminating money: http://666ismoney.com/MoneyQuotes.html .)

Arizona, where I currently live, is a desert totally dependent on electricity from nuclear & coal, plus no water. There are a lot of off-the-grid ppl living here -- much of the land I own is off the grid but when (not if) "civilization" collapses, the desert and Arizona is not the place to be.

My goal is to buy some acres in Oregon (I'd like to go to Australia but can't afford to start over there), where there are many more environmentally conscious ppl into sustainable living. Plus, they have plenty of farm-land.

One Burn I met a couple from Oregon; she was on an official City (Salem?) commission to study what to do if the system collapses.

Best Wishes!

[Isotopia]

The people who start rejecting the world around them in this way are usually the ones who have never had to endure any real problems in their lives in the first place.

<swoon>

Might even be Post of the Week.

[Token]

Posts like these prove evolution.

Sir Charles Darwin is a rockstar!!!

[BAS]

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/of ... _the_mesa/
One possibility. Gives a fairly unromanticized look at what you are talking about. Not so much the "wilderness" adventure, but a realistic look at community in an off-the-grid environment.

Aspects are appealing - others - not so much.

If that's dropping out, I think I'll stay in. Maybe I'll have to watch the whole thing because my questions are:
How do they take care of essentail needs?
Are they in welfare? Disability?
Do they hunt for food?
where do they get money for guns and ammo? Booze and smokes?

I'm sorry but that isn't a life I would want.

Well, apparently some of them raise pot, others grow their own food (vegetables and animals), and there is some food donated by charity. So the answer seems to be a little bit of everything. I found it a pretty good film.

[Packoderm]

I dropped out in a small way a month or so before the burn, and I haven't joined back. I created a second facebook account under my playa name to hide some of the stuff from my default world contacts. I practically live on my playa facebook account sharing photos and stories.

[ctys20]

This is one of the more interesting subjects - and like burning man itself is just unrealistic (non monetary system operating inside a for profit corp). The "drop out" I think you are referring to is called a bum, a homeless person, the same person who is rejected by this org (for profit LLC) called burning man.

[Box Burner]

Not all homeless people are bums.
Not all bums are homeless.
And, to my knowledge, the org does not reject bums. Or homeless people.

[ctys20]

Not all homeless people are bums.
Not all bums are homeless.
And, to my knowledge, the org does not reject bums. Or homeless people.

What's the real answer? Could a REAL homeless person attend BM? Of course not.

[gyre]

Seen it done.

[hookahdude]

Having been briefly homeless before, I think that anyone who automatically puts "Homeless" and "Bum" into the same catagory needs to lose a job they left the military for due to 'unannounced' corporate bakruptcy after a divorce that costs you approx. $1300 a month in court ordered alimony and see if working three jobs, living out of your car, and finally finding a place to stay after nearly a month in your car makes you a "Bum". Mind you this was 10 years ago, but it was probably one of the harshest reality checks a person can get.

So in the most polite manner I can, I wish to say - Fuck you.

There vented and everything is shiny again....

[ctys20]

Having been briefly homeless before, I think that anyone who automatically puts "Homeless" and "Bum" into the same catagory needs to lose a job they left the military for due to 'unannounced' corporate bakruptcy after a divorce that costs you approx. $1300 a month in court ordered alimony and see if working three jobs, living out of your car, and finally finding a place to stay after nearly a month in your car makes you a "Bum". Mind you this was 10 years ago, but it was probably one of the harshest reality checks a person can get.

So in the most polite manner I can, I wish to say - Fuck you.

There vented and everything is shiny again....

The FU reference, is that really necessary? Can't you control your emotions just a LITTLE better. It will make little difference to the cop or the court after you get a ticket for being homeless whether it is for a valid reason or not. They simply do not care.

[hookahdude]

So that makes it OK to label all homeless people as bums...

Gotcha.

We understand each other better now.

That response seems appropriate to such a myopic view of issues of homelessness. We arent talking legality - nice attempt at a misdirection/subject change BTW. We are discussing your view/attitude towards the homeless and "bums".

Regarding the sttitudes of the LEOs - because they don't care, this makes it OK to label the homeless as "bums"?

I find the logic train one I would like to remove myself from at the next station.

I will close with something that, in my mind at this moment means the exact thing that you were offended by in my previous post:

Have a nice day full of sunshines and rainbows.

PS- I was rousted one eve by a LEO, explained my situation and he recommended a shelter that I had no clue existed. Had that been you as a LEO why do I get the feeling I would have been cited and told to move along?

[ctys20]

So that makes it OK to label all homeless people as bums...

If a person is really homeless and the worst thing that happens to them is being called a "bum" then by god they would be extremely fortunate. If you're homeless you are already an outlaw - engaging in behavior that is illegal. I wouldn't even be concerned about the cops as much as the public. A few months ago someone picked up a life sentence in L.A. for dousing a homeless man with gas and setting fire, though an extreme example most of the public despise the homeless - I'm just stating a fact. (It was nice to see the LAPD do some REAL dective work and catch the prick, turned out he was a barber who worked in the area and simply hated homeless people).

So basically I think you're upset about something that is pretty petty (the name)...........................

[Box Burner]

So that makes it OK to label all homeless people as bums...

If a person is really homeless and the worst thing that happens to them is being called a "bum" then by god they would be extremely fortunate. If you're homeless you are already an outlaw - engaging in behavior that is illegal. I wouldn't even be concerned about the cops as much as the public. A few months ago someone picked up a life sentence in L.A. for dousing a homeless man with gas and setting fire, though an extreme example most of the public despise the homeless - I'm just stating a fact. (It was nice to see the LAPD do some REAL dective work and catch the prick, turned out he was a barber who worked in the area and simply hated homeless people).

So basically I think you're upset about something that is pretty petty (the name)...........................

In this case I bet "most of the public" is just your opinion. Are you sure that most of the public doesn't despise you? They might you know.