Some Villages don't teach manners to their burgins

[marck]

We've almost always backed up to TC and once I dressed in camo/guns to infiltrate your barbed wire (rubber) and snuck into the Kantina for a drink with the Kurnel. All this, sadly, went un-noticed as I was hoping to get "caught." I suppose I should have staged a coup. that's a random story but it was fun.

Apok's barbed wire fence is hilarious. The last I camped with them, '08, was the year they had problems with the MV. After we put up the fence, our Espy neighbors complained to the Rangers that Apok was being unburny by not letting them cut through and put up a very dangerous fence.

The barbed wire is made from heavy cotton thread and latex paint, kinda like Apok, all bark no bite(unless you ask nicely). But it fit very well with their camp's theme and worked until the Rangers let the cat out of the bag.

If you want to invade Apok it needs to be done in a big manner, better if it is accompanied with a soundtrack. Back in '06 the Kiwi's did a great job, even lobbed PBR granades into tents to keep potential combatents from entering the fray.

(sorry for any misspelled words, my phone's spellcheck is not cooperating right now and I still have fat fingers from the Playa)

[marck]

We were neighbors to the Hive (on esplanade) as well and we didn't have any problems with them, but the wall of RV camp of brits by us kept using my personal shade area as a backdoor to their camp.

Usually we don't have problems with nextdoor neighbors, in '10 Altitude was awesome to camp next to. Only some nextdoor neighbors are problematic. In '09, a group decided to use Apok's shower unit without permission, left it a mess and gifted them with 5-10 gallons of gray water.

Corner camps might have two, maybe more, neighboring camps that treat your camp as their backdoor. We've found that it is usually your backdoor camps that turn out to be assholes. Mainly because their campers are too lazy to walk the extra bit to get to or from their area. What I really would appreciate is those campers taking the extra half hour to introduce themselves and make friends with us, maybe stop by just to chat or share a drink. If they did that, we usually don't mind friends cutting through our space. In '09 we had just that, they were good neighbors.

[The CO]

If you want to invade Apok it needs to be done in a big manner, better if it is accompanied with a soundtrack. Back in '06 the Kiwi's did a great job, even lobbed PBR granades into tents to keep potential combatents from entering the fray.

Hey, credit where it's due. That was M*A*S*H 4207th that invaded in '06. I was the one lobbing PBR grenades. We even left a M*A*S*H flag on the stripper pole so the culprits would be known.

[The CO]

We were also camped by REDACTED CAMP. Two of my senior officers spoke with an organizer of that group after a crapton of cut-throughs. They explained that poor planning on the part of REDACTED CAMP did not mean our camp was to be used as a thru-way. A significant portion of their worker bees were in the middle of the block, and REDACTED CAMP did not provide any means for them to enter & exit. This led to most of that group cutting through our camp. We showed them where a clear path was located by the TC parking gulag & encouraged them to use it.

My personal favorite was the bumblebee that came through, was told to go around, said "I'll just go this way", and hopped a fence WITHIN THE CAMP, where he then proceeded to trip over about 8 of the guy wires that we put the fence up to keep people from tripping over. Good choice on his part not to complain about the tripwires.

[Snow]

It was more of an infiltration than a full scale invasion. Just probing the defenses. There was even a guard in the tower at the time.

[atomicray]

“Full moon calls thee--
Shai-hulud shall thou see;
Red the night, dusky sky,
Bloody death didst thou die.
We pray to a moon: she is round--
Luck with us will then abound,
What we seek for shall be found
In the land of solid ground.”
― Frank Herbert

Full moon...is the opportunity of the event

Shai-hulud...is the man

Red the night...is the playa

Bloody death...loosing one's birginity

...she is round...celebrate the female form, cause women are worth noting

Luck with us...gifting

What we seek...escape from the mundane

*****

"what Frank taught me about Burning Man"
Atomic Ray

[BBadger]

We were also camped by REDACTED CAMP. Two of my senior officers spoke with an organizer of that group after a crapton of cut-throughs. They explained that poor planning on the part of REDACTED CAMP did not mean our camp was to be used as a thru-way. A significant portion of their worker bees were in the middle of the block, and REDACTED CAMP did not provide any means for them to enter & exit. This led to most of that group cutting through our camp. We showed them where a clear path was located by the TC parking gulag & encouraged them to use it.

After this year I've been thinking that all these hippie-friendly safety measures such as covering up guyline stakes with stuffed animals and tennisballs, helping people light themselves up, etc. should be discouraged, and we should let nature take its course. The guylines should be rubbed down in ground glass (like fighter kite strings), and the poles tipped with spikey mace tops. It wouldn't be a trap; there'd be fences set up as adequate warning, but the morons who feel they must take the low road in all cases should be punished for their stupidity. It's not like we actually want to preserve the existence of such people anyway, so why protect them from themselves?

[This Woman]

I don't know, those guy wires you're imagining sound like they'll make a big bloody mess. Who will clean that up?

[atomicray]

I don't know, those guy wires you're imagining sound like they'll make a big bloody mess. Who will clean that up?

I believe the standing rule is that you bring out what you bring in...it is their blood so they are responsible for the cleanup...the blood came in with them after all.

Atomic Ray

[Cactus Pete]

Hi there marck.
After being a multi-year lurker, I decided to create a profile to respond to your posting. Let the n00b posts fly.

First of all, I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the Hive. I was not in charge of the Hive this year, but I was the Camp leader at The Automatic Subconscious, the largest camp in the Hive this year. Our Camp has worked hard to be good neighbors by walking around and talking to all of our neighbors and hosting Block parties each year. Based on this work, we have built lasting relationships with past neighbors (DOTA and Space Cowboys).
I admit to being a bit negligent in these duties this year, as I was getting married, but I do know that one of our Veterans made it over to chat with Terminal City folks to check in about any neighborly issues.

I would like to clarify a few things first and then offer a way to reach a good solution for everyone.

First of all the Hive is a very loose, free-form Village. It does not exist every year and when it does, its frequently made up of different Camps. We're ostensibly
Boston-based, but this year I'd guess only about 60% of the Hive population was from the Boston area. Additionally, of the eight camps in the Hive this year, three of those Camps were brand new and only two have existed for more than two years (AutoSub and KAOS). Its not an excuse, but it may be a reason that there seemed to be a large number of 'burgins' in the area.

Next, all of the issues you mentioned, we were dealing with as well. As in years past, we were dealing with a very large number of people trying to 'pass through' to the A street. Its a perennial problem. What isn't a perennial problem is poop. I am shocked and sickened to hear that you had an issue along your fence line. I'd like you to know that we also found several piles of poop beneath our shipping containers towards the end of the week. Disgusting and no fun to clean up. I would LOVE to know who left them there.

As far as mutant vehicles go, there were none registered with any of the Camps in the Hive. I'd have known about it and seen it. Our Camp did have a Mobility Vehicle registered. Mainly so that my senior-citizen mother-in-law with emphysema could make it out to our wedding at the Temple and get around during the week. If she was the one cutting through your camp, please let me know. Everyone needs more ammo against their mother-in-law.

On that note, I understand and appreciate your redaction of some information. I would suggest now that you have someone to contact within the Hive, you would consider sending me a PM with more info. I can contact the Hive leader and any Camp leader within the Hive.
There's no excuse for repeated or truly rude behavior of this sort. I would appreciate the chance to figure out who in the Hive was so intently working to undermine our good name.

[Jered]

Hi there,

I was the village coordinator for The Hive, and I'd love to hear more details about complaints related to our member camps. (Well, I wouldn't love to hear complaints, but you know what I mean.) I heard nothing negative while I was on playa, and I'm upset to hear some of your anecdotes about rudeness. Two relevant things I can think of:

1) We had several incidents of poop under our shipping containers, and in previous years we've had people wake up with poop in front of their tents. I am 99.9% certain that this is not due to village or camp members, and is simply an unfortunate fact of life on the Esplanade. The fact that I've only ever seen this occur on Friday or Saturday makes me pretty confident in this. Still, it sucks, and... yuck.

2) This year Placement did something interesting -- they did not allocate any camps or villages contiguous from Esplanade to A. (At least, not in any of the areas that I saw.) We requested 200' x 400', and received 300' x 300' (ish). From an interaction perspective, I thought it was great -- the Man-side of A tends to be the back alley of Esplanade camps, and this design meant that A was fully interactive on both sides.

Unfortunately, this means that there's no access to A for Esplanade camps. It doesn't surprise me at all that we had villagers cut through to A through other camps, because otherwise it's an additional few minutes to get out to the porta-potties, which really sucks. I totally believe that you had some of our villagers cut through to A, but that's no excuse for them being rude. I talked with some of our A neighbors early in the week, and we made there was a clear walking access path to A near the middle of the village.

I'm not sure what to suggest other than that people should be considerate of where they cut through, and that they should be polite. We were completely land-locked except for Esplanade, and there are definitely situations in which its unrealistic for someone 100' from A to go all the way to Esplanade and then across to 3:30 to get back to C. (That's about a quarter-mile detour.)

If there are any more details or anecdotes that you'd prefer to share privately, please contact me.

Thanks,
--Jered

[theCryptofishist]

an undeserved sense of self-entitlement.

neighbors to the Hive

If you were from Boston you'd understand why you were better than everyone else too.

Ah. Some sort of Cabots talking only to God thing. Gotcha.

[theCryptofishist]

Jared and Cactus Pete
I have no snooty remarks to make about newbies. You both sound reasonable, and like people we can work with.
This is good.

[Lassen Forge]

Hi there,

I was the village coordinator for The Hive, and I'd love to hear more details about complaints related to our member camps. (Well, I wouldn't love to hear complaints, but you know what I mean.) I heard nothing negative while I was on playa, and I'm upset to hear some of your anecdotes about rudeness. Two relevant things I can think of:

1) We had several incidents of poop under our shipping containers, and in previous years we've had people wake up with poop in front of their tents. I am 99.9% certain that this is not due to village or camp members, and is simply an unfortunate fact of life on the Esplanade. The fact that I've only ever seen this occur on Friday or Saturday makes me pretty confident in this. Still, it sucks, and... yuck.

We've had camps on the Esplenade side of A before, and we've NEVER had the fun of having someone take a dump in our camp. Maybe because if I caught them they would get the unhousebroken puppy treatment, probably go whining to Rangers because they tripped on some stairs, and would be rather famous for they would get a free portrait posted thereabouts.

I can't say this sounds like an "Esplenade" problem... I've known plenty of other esplenade camps, and they don't have this problem either... I'm not accusing anyone, but... it sounds like a localized problem that, personally, I would be watching out for like a hawk. Esp. if it were happening in my camp, and especially if it happened more than once. You say this happens with frequency in your camp... as the camp mojo and stalwart leader of Hive, maybe you should be on the lookout for this. Just saying...

2) This year Placement did something interesting -- they did not allocate any camps or villages contiguous from Esplanade to A. (At least, not in any of the areas that I saw.) We requested 200' x 400', and received 300' x 300' (ish). From an interaction perspective, I thought it was great -- the Man-side of A tends to be the back alley of Esplanade camps, and this design meant that A was fully interactive on both sides.

Unfortunately, this means that there's no access to A for Esplanade camps. It doesn't surprise me at all that we had villagers cut through to A through other camps, because otherwise it's an additional few minutes to get out to the porta-potties, which really sucks. I totally believe that you had some of our villagers cut through to A, but that's no excuse for them being rude. I talked with some of our A neighbors early in the week, and we made there was a clear walking access path to A near the middle of the village.

I'm not sure what to suggest other than that people should be considerate of where they cut through, and that they should be polite. We were completely land-locked except for Esplanade, and there are definitely situations in which its unrealistic for someone 100' from A to go all the way to Esplanade and then across to 3:30 to get back to C. (That's about a quarter-mile detour.)

Thanks,
--Jered

I walk from our camp on A down to 3:00 or 3:30 to access the Esplenade all the time, and I have fubarred feet which make it not easy to do. I think it's QUITE realistic for people to walk the few hundred feet from their camp to a radial (especially if I can hobble that far) rather than thru someone's camp. If it's not my camp, and I don't know the people running it, I'll be damned if I get caught in some camp's private space without them knowing about it beforehand. EVEN IN OUR OWN VILLAGE.

Your access is the streets, just like the rest of us. Just because you're on Esplenade does not confer special privilege. Not saying you're saying that, but still... you know.

Now, I *have* made friends with camps, we've done beer exchanges and sat on each other's patios, and extended pass-thru courtesies to each other (see above about fucked up feet) and made some damn good friends in the process... But again, they know who I am, we know who they are. If someone decides to make our camp their private pathway, and can't face me, or my campers, or at least say "Hey how are you", then I wonder why they can't face us... Maybe because I've had yahoos try to boost shit from us and do that, I dunno... but yeah, knowing what I do to people who get caught doing shit like that to our camp, and knowing a buttload of other camps (esp. on the esplenade or A st) who would take the same action I would...

I might suggest - KNOWING your neighbors. Come on over (through the front door, please) and share beer or munchies or whatever. Become one of our FRIENDS, instead of assuming privileges. Things will go a LOT smoother if this happens, and hell, you never know - someone may even gift your camp a walk-thru to use. Maybe.

/soapbox,
bb

[This Woman]

Never had poop, knock wood. But I have had altercations around our bathrooms, followed up by several pee spots surrounding them - arrogant responses from entitled asshats.

We're a bar, so we understand the need to pee and always make sure we are near public restrooms and can give ready directions to them. But we've had people get belligerent - you're a bar, you have to let us use your bathrooms, why are you such a bitch? Um, no I don't, and no I fucking won't.

[Dr Jet Sinister]

Have you considered renting potties from USS? I would have done that just to make sure it wasn't my village mates that couldn't make it down the street in time. I'd also put lights in those dark areas if it's a recurring problem.

[theCryptofishist]

Never had poop, knock wood. But I have had altercations around our bathrooms, followed up by several pee spots surrounding them - arrogant responses from entitled asshats.

We're a bar, so we understand the need to pee and always make sure we are near public restrooms and can give ready directions to them. But we've had people get belligerent - you're a bar, you have to let us use your bathrooms, why are you such a bitch? Um, no I don't, and no I fucking won't.

We got some of that too. Well, we buy the potty service so that we don't have trashed potties. It's not cheap. Here's the number to call for next year.
Whatever...

[Snow]

Been an esplanade camp for 6 years and NEVER had had a single poop incident. I don't think its an esplanade issue, but its NASTY why would you crap in someones camp WTF!

[BBadger]

Have you considered renting potties from USS? I would have done that just to make sure it wasn't my village mates that couldn't make it down the street in time. I'd also put lights in those dark areas if it's a recurring problem.

That's just inviting a whole slew of assholes to make pit stops at your local toilet. I'd rather invest in land mines than something like that.

[atomicray]

I suspect that it is the work of Bro's, Agro Fratboys, and or porta potty shy sparkle ponies...but I agree with the above...anyone caught crapping on the playa, especially in someone's camp should...at the minimum...receive the bad puppy treatment...the full long pig mud facial.

Atomic Ray

[MOOP_Nazi]

MOOP offenders will be corralled. Poop offenders will be buried up to their necks, covered in honey, and introduced to trained fire ants.

The brigade will be looking for MOOPers and POOPers...

[Dr Jet Sinister]

Have you considered renting potties from USS? I would have done that just to make sure it wasn't my village mates that couldn't make it down the street in time. I'd also put lights in those dark areas if it's a recurring problem.

That's just inviting a whole slew of assholes to make pit stops at your local toilet. I'd rather invest in land mines than something like that.

That's why they stay locked. I didn't think I had to explain that part.
Terminal City has rented their own pots for years. Every camp pays a 'fanny fee' and gets a couple of keys to the locks. If you're clever enough to hide them a little there isn't a problem with passer-by trying to get in them.

[The CO]

. I talked with some of our A neighbors early in the week, and we made there was a clear walking access path to A near the middle of the village.

I'm not sure what to suggest other than that people should be considerate of where they cut through, and that they should be polite. We were completely land-locked except for Esplanade, and there are definitely situations in which its unrealistic for someone 100' from A to go all the way to Esplanade and then across to 3:30 to get back to C. (That's about a quarter-mile detour.)

It may have been our camp you were speaking with. We made sure that there was a walking footpath available at the end of our village, led to about the middle of the Hive.

Our biggest issue was not the same people doing it over and over. It usually takes just one time through. Once they ignore the advice not to go that way, they usually figure it out why after hitting Tripwire Alley. Our fence isn't just a way to be assholes, it's there to keep people away from dangerous areas.

My personal peeve was any the several people that wanted to explain to me or even argue with me about how it was my fault that they could not get to their camp within the Hive. Made even more annoying when a) they have just arrived & are still setting up, next to our camp that has been in place for 5+ days. b) get huffy with us when we show them the footpath we mad sure was available for them at the end of the Gulag.

[StevenGoodman]

"2) This year Placement did something interesting -- they did not allocate any camps or villages contiguous from Esplanade to A. (At least, not in any of the areas that I saw.) We requested 200' x 400', and received 300' x 300' (ish). From an interaction perspective, I thought it was great -- the Man-side of A tends to be the back alley of Esplanade camps, and this design meant that A was fully interactive on both sides."

The only Village I know of this year with 200' x 400' setup was Fandango. Placement seems to be trying to get more visual and interactivity on "A", which is often a dark camping ghetto.

Martini Steve

[Bluemandrew]

FWIW-

I know that Bubbles and Bass (2:15&E I think) had some people shit under their storage containers too...

[marck]

It was probably the same people from the Hive hanging out at Bubbles and Bass.

Seriously people, even animals know not to shit where they eat or sleep.

[atomicray]

It was probably the same people from the Hive hanging out at Bubbles and Bass.

Seriously people, even animals know not to shit where they eat or sleep.

True...but these animals are assumed to be shitting where others sleep, which is quite common...marking territory

Gross...no excuse for a human though.

Atomic Ray