I really want a dirty martini...right now!

[TomServo]

....or maybe some tequila, a few lemons and some salt.

I moved into this recovery house just 3 months ago...though it feels like 6. I came with an open mind towards A.A. I've done meetings before, but thought maybe I wasn't really taking it seriously. Maybe it's the location (Bakersfield), but I'm starting to have serious doubts, surrounding the "purpose" of alcoholics anonymous, it's real motives....and the motives of certain speakers...and it's bible thumping undertones (they've hijacked agnosticism and twisted it into some creepy recruiting tool). The meetings, once tolerable..and sometimes enjoyable, are becoming more and more grating. The self depreciation, the self pity and downright arrogance towards those that are incapable of accepting the program..are really wearing me down. I didn't want a drink when I got here, and have surprisingly had no urges to drink...until now.
Returning from an A.A. meeting in Oildale, we stopped by a book burning. Our driver's wife was involved in that little party. It all made me extremely uncomfortable, and was glad when we got the fuck out of there. We had all been invited to a meeting that Saturday, when a "prophet" (their word not mine) was supposed to speak. I'm normally accepting of all faiths, practices and degrees of sanity, but when religious intolerance becomes popular and socially acceptable, it becomes a huge problem for me. In the name of sobriety? It would have made a lot more sense, if they were all shit faced drunk. Our house was not affiliated with that particular group, but everyone...except me.. attended that "revival."
"Religion is like a penis
It's fine to have one
It's fine to be proud of it
But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around
And Please don't try to shove it down my children's throat!"
- thank you for posting that jkisha!

....that, and the 10 principles, I use on a daily basis, to keep my sanity in this program.

I'm convinced that A.A. is a cult. I became completely convinced of that, at our last book study. I even make the Kool Aid in this house. Seriously! I make 5 gallons of it each day, as one of my house chores.

Some of the Truly religious, in this house, must share my sentiment. Last Wednesday, a new house mate and hardcore christian left after only 3 hours. Minutes before he ran out, I caught him screaming obscenities, at Satan, in the kitchen.

I've made a promise, to a few friends and family members, that I would stick with this program....and I will, completely sober. But I long for that day, when I can sip on that dirty martini, and recall my time spent at the "stupid museum." My room mate came up with that one. He plans on making a career out of this shit.

[Elderberry]

There are other ways to quit besides AA. But I'm sure the fact that your meetings in Bakersfield is a big part of the reason you don't like them. You ought to try a few meetings in West Hollywood or Beverly Hills!

[TomServo]

Deep down, I really don't want to quit. I can live without booze, but I like it.

and I like to finish everything I start

[Elorrum]

Are any of your migivings really good reasons to drink? I still miss my magic moments of drinking, but I am pretty certain they are inextricably intwined now with shit I do not want. Find another meeting. Find another house. You can seek like mindedness in the program. Getting disgusted with how other people recover is not productive for you. I don't think I could hang with the scene you describe, but it's a bunch of drunks, God love 'em. Why do you expect it to work perfectly?
Don't expect that martini to treat you better. This sober burner wants to express her imperfection and solidarity and love for you, Tomservo. You don't have to never ever drink again for the rest of your life, just not before you go to sleep tonight, and we'll let tomorrow rest for now.

[Savannah]

I have heard good anecdotal things about Rational Recovery, an alternative to A.A.

Their site:
https://rational.org/

And a wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_Recovery

Note: I have no personal experience with it and cannot vouch for it. I only know folks who have been through A.A. and their criticisms of it, and I can understand some of their objections (for example, the religious overtones, which R.R. does not use).

[hookahdude]

I can only relate at the level from when I quit smoking. The one thing you said that struck a chord with me was not wanting to quit and liking it. That was how I felt about smoking... I genuinely enjoy it and I had no desire to quit. I knew I should, but really didn't want to. Then my wife and kids said something about my health and then my dad died of cancer associated with it... I figured it was time to say good-bye to my old friend and move on. If I were to say that I never have the urge to light up - I'd be a fucking liar. Every day I have the urge. What I discovered is that even more than my not liking to quit one thing, I dislike the thought of failing at another even more. I just think about it backwards - I am not trying to succeed, but I refuse to fail.

[TomServo]

The consequences of both alcohol and cigarettes are staring me in the face. A house mate died last week from cirrhosis, and another was taken to the hospital last night, I'm assuming, because of his lung cancer. I do enjoy sobriety, at times....just like I enjoyed drinking, at times. I actually hate smoking, but even worse, I hate the withdrawals. I was fortunate enough to miss that part when I quit drinking. My observations of this program, are from a sober mind. I can't justify my rant more than that. I can't predict how this will end...I can say with all certainty, that AA has done absolutely nothing to curb my desires, compared to my own choice to quit. If anything, it's sparked that urge to sneak a drink.

In NO WAY, do I regret (anymore) my decision to come down here! I love learning new things. Even if they are disturbing

[Elorrum]

90 days sober. You want to sneak a drink . Give it 'till tomorrow. Go to bed early. Talk to someone.

[unjonharley]

Hate to see a 12 step program get yet another bad rap..

I came into recovery at a much different time..
I come into AA at 24 and an addict.. I was the youngest and the first junky to set foot in there meetings in 1962..

The meetings were for 12 step.. The speakers only wittnessed how the 12 steps had help them.. If you were interested you were assigned a sponsor.. I was assigned six.. These guys were in my hourly life until I was stable enough to be alone.. We introduced our self as being sober these past 24 hours.. I was most impressed by how others reach out to me.. Then there was a guy in the outback of Aussieland that did his meetings by mail with my home group in Wisc.. I learned what the second A stood for.. One person came to meeting dressed like all the rest of us.. One day a big Caddy beeped it's horn and the driver waved.. He was a priest that come to meetings dressed down.. Every one was on the same level.. Being sober only these passed 24 hours, we did not have program birthdays..

At nine years in recovery I moved to Salem.. I went to the only show in town.. Two meeting a week by the same group.. At this time , not like now.. You did not jump in and whine about what you had done to yourself.. While trying to lay the blame off on some one or thing else.. You sat down shut up listened and waited to be called on to wittness your own recovery..

Not being sponsored into this group I was an outsider and never called on to speak.
I think those good ole boys smelled an addict.. So I went about my own 12 step work.. Started a group in the local nut house and was one of two people that opened the first rehab in the area.. Also become knowen as that son of a bitch.

Six years later at a old timers speakers meeting ( 15 years or plus) the chair person skipped over my name.. A guy I had sponsored called him on it.. The chair person said " Well, Where is that son of a bitch" I was three feet in front of him.. Called on , I spoke of my recovery and politely sat down..

Then I went out and co introduced NA to the area.. ( Got a better name than son of a bitch) Had to be careful no one pissed in my coffee

I stopped going to meeting after i retired.. Tired of hearing about how sitting around whine in meeting is not working.. Then some one come up with this load of shit.. Take what you need and leave the rest.. WTF. If I had be well enough to pick what I did and did want I would not have 49 years in recovery today at 75 years old..

There only three steps to recovery and the rest are for cleaning up "your"act..
!. you have a problem.. 2. your not able to handle this problem.. 3. you need some help to solve this problem..

No matter how you chose to recover from your problem, It all boils down to noe thing..YOUGOTTAWANNA

[moonrise]

Hiya TS!!

I think about you often after I noticed you weren't frequenting the board...I asked grai and MDF where you went off to, what was up? stuff like that....they knew and were quiet about it.

I can SEE the clarity of your post (and perhaps less anger/frustration?) give it more time, and I think everyones' thoughtful, helpful, well written replies are amazing (even unjohn wrote a good long post for you) so, I hope things improve, little by little.

[junglesmacks]

See..

I've always wondered why instead of stone cold self torturing full on sobriety.. that we all can't just learn a little moderation.. or how to have the will power and self control to moderate anything and everything?

I mean.. it's more than just alcohol. It's buying shit on ebay. It's cutting people off in traffic. It's coffee. It's that extra je ne se quoi. It's SELF CONTROL.. and yes.. you too can learn it and embrace it!

Alcohol.. coke.. weed.. ex.. chocolate.. guns.. whatever what have you.. I'm sorry, but me personally.. I don't feel that they are inherently "bad".. it's the out of control nature that surrounds them that is the bad part. Don't blame the gun, blame the fucking owner.


So hey.. HAVE THAT DIRTY MARTINI. The martini is ok! It's fine! It's the out of control nature behind it that's the beast. THAT'S what needs the attention and focus, not the gat' damn martini. The martini is just the band-aid and surface scratcher for what's really goin' on.


You can do this. Just.. recognize the beast and target THAT.. instead of the martini.


I mean.. honestly.. that is my beef with the whole 12 step. It's that whole thing about being "powerless". BULLFUCKINGSHIT.

YOU ARE THE MOST POWERFUL THING HERE!!! YOU CONTROL AND HAVE THE POWER TO DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING!!! YES!!! YOU!!!

You CAN do this. ALONE.. because you are powerful. You. Are. Powerful.


Do this.


(my $0.02 FWIW)

[theCryptofishist]

I think some people find that it's all or nothing with them and the beast.
If Tom Servo really is an "addict" (and let's just stipulate that we could have a long, interesting, complicated, contradictory conversation about what that word might mean) then maybe you've provided him with a justification to drink again.


The people you're with, Tom, sound a little "off" to me. I don't always trust my own judgement. I have blind spots you could drive a truck through, but, yes, book-burners are not "okay" in my world. I mean, there are plenty of books that I think should be pulped, and there are even authors I directly recycle because I find their message nasty and these are million selling authors, so I'm not actually preventing anyone from reading it. (Dr. Laura is in that group.) So there you have me saying I hate book burning, and then I go on about what I'd burn. My little self-justification.

[Elderberry]

JS this is the most misinformed post I have ever seen you make. Far below your usual standard. I have to say that, in this case, your two cents isn't worth a plug nickel. Do a little more reading on the nature of chemical and biological and psychological addiction and please come back and do a rewrite to redeem yourself.

See..

I've always wondered why instead of stone cold self torturing full on sobriety.. that we all can't just learn a little moderation.. or how to have the will power and self control to moderate anything and everything?

I mean.. it's more than just alcohol. It's buying shit on ebay. It's cutting people off in traffic. It's coffee. It's that extra je ne se quoi. It's SELF CONTROL.. and yes.. you too can learn it and embrace it!

Alcohol.. coke.. weed.. ex.. chocolate.. guns.. whatever what have you.. I'm sorry, but me personally.. I don't feel that they are inherently "bad".. it's the out of control nature that surrounds them that is the bad part. Don't blame the gun, blame the fucking owner.


So hey.. HAVE THAT DIRTY MARTINI. The martini is ok! It's fine! It's the out of control nature behind it that's the beast. THAT'S what needs the attention and focus, not the gat' damn martini. The martini is just the band-aid and surface scratcher for what's really goin' on.


You can do this. Just.. recognize the beast and target THAT.. instead of the martini.


I mean.. honestly.. that is my beef with the whole 12 step. It's that whole thing about being "powerless". BULLFUCKINGSHIT.

YOU ARE THE MOST POWERFUL THING HERE!!! YOU CONTROL AND HAVE THE POWER TO DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING!!! YES!!! YOU!!!

You CAN do this. ALONE.. because you are powerful. You. Are. Powerful.


Do this.


(my $0.02 FWIW)

[maryanimal]

JS this is the most misinformed post I have ever seen you make. Far below your usual standard. I have to say that, in this case, your two cents isn't worth a plug nickel. Do a little more reading on the nature of chemical and biological and psychological addiction and please come back and do a rewrite to redeem yourself.

+100 Ad Infinitum

[unjonharley]

See..

I've always wondered why instead of stone cold self torturing full on sobriety.. that we all can't just learn a little moderation.. or how to have the will power and self control to moderate anything and everything?

I mean.. it's more than just alcohol. It's buying shit on ebay. It's cutting people off in traffic. It's coffee. It's that extra je ne se quoi. It's SELF CONTROL.. and yes.. you too can learn it and embrace it!

Alcohol.. coke.. weed.. ex.. chocolate.. guns.. whatever what have you.. I'm sorry, but me personally.. I don't feel that they are inherently "bad".. it's the out of control nature that surrounds them that is the bad part. Don't blame the gun, blame the fucking owner.


So hey.. HAVE THAT DIRTY MARTINI. The martini is ok! It's fine! It's the out of control nature behind it that's the beast. THAT'S what needs the attention and focus, not the gat' damn martini. The martini is just the band-aid and surface scratcher for what's really goin' on.


You can do this. Just.. recognize the beast and target THAT.. instead of the martini.


I mean.. honestly.. that is my beef with the whole 12 step. It's that whole thing about being "powerless". BULLFUCKINGSHIT.

YOU ARE THE MOST POWERFUL THING HERE!!! YOU CONTROL AND HAVE THE POWER TO DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING!!! YES!!! YOU!!!

You CAN do this. ALONE.. because you are powerful. You. Are. Powerful.


Do this.


(my $0.02 FWIW)

Yes JS I have a very powerful willpower.. First my willpower drove me into a corner with drugs.. So I ask for and recieved some help to handle my will power..

I changed my way and went in a different direction by 180 degrees..
My want/will power has given me a whole new life of friends family and life..

I payed back for the help I had ask for and received by reaching out to other that needed the same help..

I would never tell or preach to people not to have that drink or use that drug..

I do say drug are illegal and to break the law is stupid.. Or driving and drinking you should be locked up for a long time.. Or I think if you need drink or drugs to have a good time your fucked up in the head..

I sure as hell would never tell a person that is in a corner to keep banging there head on the same wall..

Some people need a little help getting out of the corner they put there self in..

[maryanimal]

Yes JS I have a very powerful willpower.. First my willpower drove me into a corner with drugs.. So I ask for and recieved some help to handle my will power..

I changed my way and went in a different direction by 180 degrees..
My want/will power has given me a whole new life of friends family and life..

I payed back for the help I had ask for and received by reaching out to other that needed the same help..

I would never tell or preach to people not to have that drink or use that drug..

I do say drug are illegal and to break the law is stupid.. Or driving and drinking you should be locked up for a

long time.. Or I think if you need drink or drugs to have a good time your fucked up in the head..

I sure as hell would never tell a person that is in a corner to keep banging there head on the same wall..

Some people need a little help getting out of the corner they put there self in..

Well said UJH...well said.

[Elorrum]

yes, thanks jk. People who say it just takes a strong mind, well, I hope they don't counsel any of their loved ones struggling with addiction. I don't hate alcohol, or wish nobody drank. All I can share is my personal experience, like Unjon said. I can't be moderate with it. I don't know why it deserves an argument. some folks can, some folks can't. It runs in my family. I trained and trained, practiced and practiced, promised and swore to do better. I could not master it, though I desired nothing else more. My liver and I made the U turn from the ability to process a lot (increased tolerance) to damage (from increasing amounts) and the subsequent lessening of my physical ability to process alcohol... when things became, shall we say, unpredictable. I stopped and started a few times, and each time it was harder to stop again. I fooled myself into thinking that a clear head from a month or more of sobriety would allow me to exercise my newly "strengthened" will, that I would never return to the dysfunction I had "weakly" allowed. That fantasy never materialized for me.

here's the picture I have in my mind: I was in the ocean, NOTHING around me, treading water and tiring. A boat was coming by and it had a rope hanging over the side. Was I going to wonder if that boat was the perfect boat for me? I didn't think there was going to be another one, or another one soon enough, so I grabbed the rope. Once on board, I decided to take instruction on how to stay on the boat.

[moonrise]

Hmmm, some/most of us are products of our environment. JS may have been raised in an extremely stable household and just happens to have willpower drawn from that, or more of it than most.
Give him a break, he's probably still fired up and decompressing.


jkisha and others are correct, alcoholism is a serious addiction. If it requires medical/professional attention, please seek it. Soon enough you'll be in the zone safe enough to say 'Bring it on mother fucker' and whatever else works for YOU to beat those cravings, then eventually, this drinking habit gone too far will just be a memory. Keep up the good work TS!!

[graidawg]

Hey TS, always knew that you had a good head on your shoulders, I see what you are doing here.
You are venting at people who's opinion actually matters to you. The people in that house you have no regard for, nor the system they use with it religious overtones. So you turn to us, because we do matter to you. Our religion is very different and its personal to al of us, we have our ten principles, that we hold dear and you are ising them and us to help you remember why you are there.
So Tom keep it mind and when we finally do meet we can have a virgin mary (hehe) without compromise

[Sham]

Tom, stick with it. Your head will feel so much better in the morning. Just remember how foggy and beaten down you feel the next day. Stick to this soberness and you will feel much happier in the morning.

[junglesmacks]

I stick by my statements thankyouverymuch. Go ahead and shake that old man cane at me, JK.

The only "disease" is one's lack of self control.

To quote the Baldwin Research Institure.. "History and science have shown us that the existence of the disease of alcoholism is pure speculation. Just saying alcoholism is a disease, doesn't make it true."


Also, to clarify.. the point I was trying to make is that the concept that you are "powerless" is a load of horse dookie. Sure.. some people need help with it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just remember that you're NOT powerless. You're POWERFUL.

[unjonharley]

Also, to clarify.. the point I was trying to make is that the concept that you are "powerless" is a load of horse dookie. Sure.. some people need help with it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just remember that you're NOT powerless. You're POWERFUL.

I beg to differ with you on this point.. The human has little to no control over other persons, places or things.. Any control you gain and hold is always short term.. Your wife leaves you, your dog dies and so on.. You put on a roof to control "your" inviorment, short term it leaks.. You become king, short term you get your ass kicked.. Every thing keeps going.. Mans ego makes him run along side and hold on and control.. Lot like a car that rolls away.. You might even risk your life to regain control of it before it crashes.. Some do some don't.. Some times your powerless and it's better to let it go.. You can always repair it or replace it.. That is unless your die trying to regain control..

Please reread the three step I layed out in the above post.. You will find I never mentioned powerlessness, alcoholic or addict.. The sooner a person sees they have "a problem", sees they have lost control of "a problem" and learns to change "a problem" .. Just that much faster will there ego driven ass fine some thing else to " try " and control.. If you do or don't give up you control all things will end, good or badly

Just as sure as I must stop typing now.. My body has taken over my willpower.. If don't go and take a shit.. I will surely shit my pants..

[unjonharley]

oops

[junglesmacks]

I'm in agreement with you, UJ. My response was directed at the traditional 12 step and to JKs cane/saber rattling.

[Sic Pup]

oops

No, you didn't.



The only thing I can offer to this conversation is that I am acutely aware that someone with enough conviction, willpower, motivation and stamina can beat addiction without outside help but as it's already been said, they have to want to.

That's not to say that a disease might not be at the cause of it or that AA and other orgs/methods can't be a tremendous help but it depends on the individual.

I'll also add that if it's truly an addiction, the thought that one can imbibe in moderation is a fallacy, sure they may be do it for awhile but sooner or later something will drive them back to the familiar and all too comfortable. Until that notion is absorbed one isn't ready to heal, sad to say.

[Elorrum]

We admit that we are powerless over (insert substance). The statement is specific, not an over reaching claim to helplessness. It makes me sad, JS, that you want to have a friend dip again into the shame of not having the strength you believe we all possess, especially at a time when he is tryng to fight his hardest. I'm certain I cannot convince you how for some, zero is far easier than one. Suggesting there is an untapped well of self control is to my mind cruel, or at best , oblivious.

[unjonharley]

oops

No, you didn't.

No..oops as in double post

[FIGJAM]

The AMA says it's a disease!!!

The advice before going into treatment, to test your control, was to have 1 average drink a day for 90 days.

No more than 1 and no less than 1.

If you could do it, you were in control of your drinking, if not you were'nt.

I never knew anyone that thought they needed that test to pass it sucsessfully.

I know too damn much about this subject.

[unjonharley]

We admit that we are powerless over (insert substance). The statement is specific, not an over reaching claim to helplessness.

Looking at the 12th step closely..You will find instead of (insert substance) you are invited to insert any or all of life's bumps.. Along with a payment plan for what you have received.. This can be done without being beaten to death by a god stick. Or you don't need to bee gang fuck by a formed cult a.k.a. single group..

The 12 steps offer a whole life plan..

[theCryptofishist]

A desperate attempt to inject humor and cuteness into the thread: