OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

[Sola Gangsta]

The problem is not big business per se, it is the influence their money is allowed to buy in politics and government.

organizedcrime.jpg

[BBadger]

part of my dilemma, is I like the idea of some big companies.
With size and scale, they can do things faster, better, cheaper a lot of times. and , fund research and stuff that small scale companies just can't do.

Exactly. These are natural systems: richer, bigger companies have greater flexibility than poorer, smaller companies. Microsoft can throw billions of dollars at its XBox console despite naysayers because it can stay in the game for the long run; the investment paid off. A small restaurant with little capital may not survive because it can't become "established."

Likewise, this is--fundamentally--why the "rich get richer" and the "poor get poorer". The rich have the financial flexibility to invest in the longer-term and reap rewards. Time ultimately means money. The poor suffer from the opposite phenomena: a lack of flexibility means that small problems become major issues, draining investments. It's not the rich stealing from the poor, but just why it is always good to be rich.

This is where credit comes in: credit gives you flexibility that you would otherwise not have. Buying time with money. Credit should only be used for investment, and emergencies. It should not, for example, be wasted on college degrees that you do not have direct plans for employment (not just being "college educated"). It should not be spent on luxuries to make you feel "middle class". It should not be spent on risky investment behavior like flipping homes.

Unfortunately, credit was abused quite a bit in the last 10 years. Even worse, those who did not abuse credit now have less access to it. To add insult to injury, they are also having to bail out people and institutions who abused their access to credit.

I sort of resent, painting all "big business" as "bad", or even greedy.
Some have big profits, but, also sustain big losses, at times.
The "broad brush" approach, I guess, is bothersome.
Just imagine, being able to afford a hand made car.................

Greed or whatever, I figure companies are companies, and they're designed for only one purpose: to make profit. They're legally considered "people" and as "people" they have no soul. They grow big and fat because that's what companies do if they're successful. It's like expecting your dog to curb his appetite and not eat himself to death: he won't, not unless you hold back his food dish.

So why complain to the dog, when you should be complaining to the owner that helped that dog get too fat and/or allows that dog to go steal food from your yard and pets? Think that the dog cares about your complaints? Hell no. Replace dog with corporations, and replace the owner with the government.

Why are they protesting at Wall Street again?

[theCryptofishist]

Because it seems to be working a lot better than any other protests in the past twenty years?

[Bob]

How's that anti-war movement working for you?

[BBadger]

Because it seems to be working a lot better than any other protests in the past twenty years?

Working a lot better doing exactly what?

[Sic Pup]

Triumph @ OWS! .....no, really.

(BM reference at 1:40ish)

http://teamcoco.com/video/triumph-occupy-wall-st

[ygmir]

part of my dilemma, is I like the idea of some big companies.
With size and scale, they can do things faster, better, cheaper a lot of times. and , fund research and stuff that small scale companies just can't do.
I sort of resent, painting all "big business" as "bad", or even greedy.
Some have big profits, but, also sustain big losses, at times.
The "broad brush" approach, I guess, is bothersome.
Just imagine, being able to afford a hand made car.................

Nothing wrong with big companies...as long as they follow the rules and aren't able to buy favors from politicians, and pay their fair shar of taxes. (don't forget, if you don't make a profit, you aren't required to pay taxes.)

Additionally, business will only invest big bucks to fund research that will return big profits. There are many equally important research projects that need funding which may not be profitable, which is where only government funding will make these projects and their benefits to society possible.

The problem is not big business per se, it is the influence their money is allowed to buy in politics and government.

agreed.

[Elderberry]

[youtube][/youtube]

[Elderberry]

650,000 people have already moved their money from big banks to credit unions to the tune of $4.5billion! And today is the "official" day to make the move.

Hmmm... No wonder BOA and other banks backed down on the $5.00 debit card fee. Too little, too late, if you ask me. I wonder why the reporting on the numbers of people and the amount of money hasn't gotten much reporting?

[ygmir]

650,000 people have already moved their money from big banks to credit unions to the tune of $4.5billion! And today is the "official" day to make the move.

Hmmm... No wonder BOA and other banks backed down on the $5.00 debit card fee. Too little, too late, if you ask me. I wonder why the reporting on the numbers of people and the amount of money hasn't gotten much reporting?

the other thing with credit cards, bank fees, atm's........well, what's wrong with paying cash, for stuff? Why not cash your paycheck, or, withdrawn it after direct deposit? no card, no fees?
Just a thought.

[Elderberry]

650,000 people have already moved their money from big banks to credit unions to the tune of $4.5billion! And today is the "official" day to make the move.

Hmmm... No wonder BOA and other banks backed down on the $5.00 debit card fee. Too little, too late, if you ask me. I wonder why the reporting on the numbers of people and the amount of money hasn't gotten much reporting?

the other thing with credit cards, bank fees, atm's........well, what's wrong with paying cash, for stuff? Why not cash your paycheck, or, withdrawn it after direct deposit? no card, no fees?
Just a thought.

Did you know, if I wrote you a check from my bank and you go to cash it (at my bank), but you do not have an account at the bank, they will charge you a fee to cash the check! I haven't verified this lately, as I don't write as many checks to people as I used to, but that was something I found infuriating!

And, remember back to how debit cards came about. Once checks became popular, most people paid for everything by check. There was never a fee to do this. But manually processing checks, and even electronically processing them was expensive, but banks NEVER charged for this service. Then, to save money, they started to charge if you wanted to receive your cancelled checks back, then they simply stopped doing that at all. Then debit cards hit the scene. Banks encouraged their use because it saved them money on processing fees...a ton of money. Plus, they could have the extra benefit of being able to charge the merchants for accepting the care. (remember, they never charged merchants for accepting checks).

So, considering the history, banks really have a hard time justifying all of these new fees. Banks traditionally made their money from making loans. They needed people to deposit money for the banks to loan out. All of the checking and other services were provided as enticements for people to put their money in the bank for the banks to use.

Once they started making more money with all those fancy new financial instruments, they no longer cared how they treated the customer. Until all that, what should have been illegal, gambling backfired and they had to be bailed out by the taxpayers-the people they were raping for years with exorbitant fees and illegal foreclosures, etc.

All this extra fee crap is greed, plain and simple. Which is why pulling money out of those too big to fail banks is a very appropriate thing to do right now.

[unjonharley]

.

Hmmm... No wonder BOA and other banks backed down on the $5.00 debit card fee. Too little, too late, if you ask me. I wonder why the reporting on the numbers of people and the amount of money hasn't gotten much reporting?

the other thing with credit cards, bank fees, atm's........well, what's wrong with paying cash, for stuff? Why not cash your paycheck, or, withdrawn it after direct deposit? no card, no fees?
Just a thought.[/quote]

SS and military disability is payed into a debt card instead of a paper check..
I only shop at store where debt cards are free.. Age discounts, disabled military discounts, coupon and careful spending get me about 5% savings..
Not mention GoodWill Shopping.. 25 to 50% on the dollar. Oh! Craig's List.
Burning teaches me to not use disposable, which save a bunch.
With all this saving I can buy corp BM tickets..

Chase Bank's ATM at the VA hospital has a $6 withdrawal fee..

[Bob]

Ssshhh, Unjon, don't give the hipster real estate tycoons any ideas about cleaning out Goodwill to stage property sales.

[Elderberry]

Open up a Schwab account, they rebate all ATM fees, as do most small banks.

[Sola Gangsta]

[youtube][/youtube]

[ygmir]

650,000 people have already moved their money from big banks to credit unions to the tune of $4.5billion! And today is the "official" day to make the move.

Hmmm... No wonder BOA and other banks backed down on the $5.00 debit card fee. Too little, too late, if you ask me. I wonder why the reporting on the numbers of people and the amount of money hasn't gotten much reporting?

the other thing with credit cards, bank fees, atm's........well, what's wrong with paying cash, for stuff? Why not cash your paycheck, or, withdrawn it after direct deposit? no card, no fees?
Just a thought.

Did you know, if I wrote you a check from my bank and you go to cash it (at my bank), but you do not have an account at the bank, they will charge you a fee to cash the check! I haven't verified this lately, as I don't write as many checks to people as I used to, but that was something I found infuriating!

And, remember back to how debit cards came about. Once checks became popular, most people paid for everything by check. There was never a fee to do this. But manually processing checks, and even electronically processing them was expensive, but banks NEVER charged for this service. Then, to save money, they started to charge if you wanted to receive your cancelled checks back, then they simply stopped doing that at all. Then debit cards hit the scene. Banks encouraged their use because it saved them money on processing fees...a ton of money. Plus, they could have the extra benefit of being able to charge the merchants for accepting the care. (remember, they never charged merchants for accepting checks).

So, considering the history, banks really have a hard time justifying all of these new fees. Banks traditionally made their money from making loans. They needed people to deposit money for the banks to loan out. All of the checking and other services were provided as enticements for people to put their money in the bank for the banks to use.

Once they started making more money with all those fancy new financial instruments, they no longer cared how they treated the customer. Until all that, what should have been illegal, gambling backfired and they had to be bailed out by the taxpayers-the people they were raping for years with exorbitant fees and illegal foreclosures, etc.

All this extra fee crap is greed, plain and simple. Which is why pulling money out of those too big to fail banks is a very appropriate thing to do right now.

again, though, JK, that's my point about paying cash.............
you pay me cash, no fooging check.

In UJH's case, if his only option is direct deposit to a bank card, I dunno. But, if they'll direct deposit to a standard bank account, just withdraw it all, each month, once, and pay no fees. pay with cash, when you can.
Of course, some things don't work that way, I understand, but, as much as possible, it seems, would help.

[Elderberry]

Great video. We live just up the street from the studio and go to see him live at least a couple of times a season.

[unjonharley]

In UJH's case, if his only option is direct deposit to a bank card, I dunno. But, if they'll direct deposit to a standard bank account, just withdraw it all, each month, once, and pay no fees. pay with cash, when you can.
Of course, some things don't work that way, I understand, but, as much as possible, it seems, would help.

No this is some thing new.. It is a federal debt card.. No banks involved.. There are no charges or fees.. The card is e loaded and the money sits there until used.

I opted for this.. Chase bank was hosing me to handle my account. The one day after the bail out, I went in to cash and deposit my checks.. I wanted more money out "that day" than I had in the bank.. Chase would not allow withdrawals from my just deposited federal check for 24 hours.. They wanted to be sure the check would clear. They would not trust the people that had bailed them out.. This came under the WTF thread.. I asked for all of my money and closed the account. They would not give me my money. Claiming the transaction had already been inter .. I little yelling out loud changed there minds.. The next two month they tried to bill me for account fees.. I had to go into the bank twice to tell then to fuck off.. So you see I way out in front of Occupy.. I stopped yelling and stared doing..

[Elderberry]

[youtube][/youtube]

[moonrise]

650,000 people have already moved their money from big banks to credit unions to the tune of $4.5billion! And today is the "official" day to make the move.

Hmmm... No wonder BOA and other banks backed down on the $5.00 debit card fee. Too little, too late, if you ask me. I wonder why the reporting on the numbers of people and the amount of money hasn't gotten much reporting?

Might be a very good idea to wrtie the website addresses for the OWS movement on the signs the OWS protesters carry. Before they try to shut the internet down, or control it in the name of 9-11 safety. (I think plenty of the unaware masses will then surf it up and wake up)

It seems countless can move their money queitly, with computers & phones, away from the big banks, or just go withdraw in cash and deposit into the small banks and safe/real credit unions. Change.org (MoveOn.org sent out a civic action series of emails) and many more organizations are sending out mass emails explaining how to do it safely. (If one person reading here moves just $1000.00 I'll be happy, hopefully many more will....and not just a lousy $1,000.00)

Most importantly; How and how long will it take to block the Supreme court's descision to give corporations the same rights as humans? (a horrific decision; it must be blocked)

[Simon of the Playa]

lets get something straight.

i support the OWS movement. Go back and read my posts SG, and you'll find that we actually are on the same side, minus the need for violence, however.


i have participated in the OccupyRochester marches and sit-ins.

i don't use banks.

but here's a thought, occupy locally.

Occupy your front yard, clean it up, moop it. Occupy your neighborhood, go outside, meet people, talk to them, know your community, get involved. Occupy your City...The suburbs are a death knell for TRUE community and the sustainable metropolis...Occupy your world just like it's Burning Man...live the Ethos, ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE in the ten principles ALL THE TIME, EVERYWHERE.

if you want it, do it, build it, make it....it's up to you, it's up to us.

one of the coolest viral videos is of the typical social dynamic of a group who, will participate, if they think it's all right.

one guy dancing wildly to the music is a weirdo, the moment the second person joins in, it's a Party, as everyone else will get the social cue, that indeed, they can do it too.

if you want to make a difference, make a difference, it's really that simple.

posting on eplaya in an obsessive antagonistic myopic tone wins you no adherents nor furthers the discussion as people become entrenched in their positions.

love the New Avatar SG, Stealing it....

[moonrise]

[youtube][/youtube]

Uh! Why wasn't there more covergae, or was under covered? Get real(er) youngturks, It has to be censorship, either from within the news or the governement or both.
Maybe they're getting scared? How does it feel?

[Sola Gangsta]

Most importantly; How and how long will it take to block the Supreme court's descision to give corporations the same rights as humans? (a horrific decision; it must be blocked)

[youtube][/youtube]

[unjonharley]

[youtube][/youtube]

Uh! Why wasn't there more covergae, or was under covered? Get real(er) youngturks, It has to be censorship, either from within the news or the governement or both.
Maybe they're getting scared? How does it feel?

The media is one of the greedest of corporations..Those pretty people in frint of the cameras are the poster child for greedy corp Am.

[moonrise]

Most importantly; How and how long will it take to block the Supreme court's descision to give corporations the same rights as humans? (a horrific decision; it must be blocked)

[youtube][/youtube]

Good one, the whole video clip is, I like best when it hits 6:32.

SG, I, we in my circle, hope you're using your smarts to spread our side beyond just eplaya!

And Ygmir, thanks for asking for explanations a 6th grader can understand and thanks simon (and whomever else) for posting them.

Yes, unjon, something is wrong, ain't it? If only there were ONE monkey wrench to throw into the gears and stop the machine from eating us alive. We need countless moneky wrenches, countless and it'll take years to fix the mess, but so worth it!

[Sola Gangsta]

The media is one of the greedest of corporations..Those pretty people in frint of the cameras are the poster child for greedy corp Am.

[youtube][/youtube]

[Sola Gangsta]

SG, I, we in my circle, hope you're using your smarts to spread our side beyond just eplaya!

[youtube][/youtube]

[unjonharley]

Yes, unjon, something is wrong, ain't it? If only there were ONE monkey wrench to throw into the gears and stop the machine from eating us alive. We need countless moneky wrenches, countless and it'll take years to fix the mess, but so worth it!

This years garden was over planted.. All the extra food was given to people that live on our street.. Saved a bunch of seeds. Plans are to grow much more to give away.

Freedom Gardening..

If you have 4 square foot of patio.. Hang a garden over it.. Give any extra away..

[theCryptofishist]

Because it seems to be working a lot better than any other protests in the past twenty years?

Working a lot better doing exactly what?

If you cannot appropriately parse "seems", I cannot help you.

[BBadger]

Because it seems to be working a lot better than any other protests in the past twenty years?

Working a lot better doing exactly what?

If you cannot appropriately parse "seems", I cannot help you.

That's what I'm asking: I want to know why it seems better. As compared to what? Why is it working? And by "working" what is it accomplishing?

Hell, I'd probably even agree with that statement. There just haven't been that many protests of note in the last 20 years, and those that did occur like those with Cindy Sheehan were particularly ridiculous. The last impactful "protest" I can remember was the Rodney King Riots, but I'm not sure if comparisons between OWS and that incident is all that complimentary.