New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

[lemur]

im glad i dont have to write the email that quells all of these fears with the final info.

[wh..sh]

No. The JRS clearly states that you can only win one ticket from each lottery.

Actually no

"- You will only be able to purchase tickets from one lottery
- Yhere will be a limited number of tickets per person"

You can buy tickets from only one lottery, but the number of tickets a person can buy is not yet defined.
I hardly think its going to be 1 person = 1 ticket. Might be 2 to 4. Who knows!

[Bob]

Know who thought he was an expert at Friday press releases? Nixon. Look where it got him.

[AntiM]

I only read page 1 of 22 so someone else may have already mentioned this, last year one person requested tickets for four people, this year all four people will request 4 tickets each, so instead of removing four tickets from the 50,000 available they could end up removing 16 tickets, 12 tickets they will have to sell on afterwards.

No. The JRS clearly states that you can only win one ticket from each lottery.

That is not how I read it. I'm reading you can only buy one set number of tickets from one lottery, and that number has not yet been decided. Once you've been selected for one lottery, you are out of the others. Sheer speculation though.

[Elderberry]

Thanks for the links. They are to the new Board of Directors, six of which are the original founders of the organization. The board does not run the organization, it can act in an advisory capacity, but it elects officers who's job it is to actually run the company. It would be more interesting to see who the officers are. And, again just guessing, I'd say Larry and several of the founding members will be on that list.

I think they are just converting the LLC to a non-profit Corporation and doing whatever is necessary to meet those requirements. I would be very surprised to hear there are different people at the helm. But I could be wrong.

The LLC
http://www.burningman.com/whatisburning ... t_bio.html

The Project
http://www.burningmanproject.org/board-of-directors

Looks like they added in a bunch of people, and kept the founders of the LLC.

[wefish]

How about a lottery that you do not have to pick a price point - everyone should go into the same lottery and and the first draw can be for the lowest price then the next level etc. I think anyone serious about attending is willing to pay any of the prices!!! Forcing people to sign up for only one price level drastically limits the possibility of getting selected for tickets!!! The odds are not our of 50,000 they are only out of the number of tickets avail at the particular price level!!

[Miss Molly]

@ the guy who wants to get X number of friends to game the lottery (hey I actually read all of this and it was about 5 pages back so I don't remember who he was): Are you the same guy who bitched & moaned about the system crashing on day 1 last year and then let slip he had 4 computers running the queue? Shit like that doesn't help the system...and contributes to the problem since that kind of shit is what overloads the servers to begin with. So is fucking up the lottery for the 10 or 20 people you are bumping. And even if you sell at face value? Do I know you? Do I know your ticket isn't a fake, or you aren't a scammer? Your attitude just really sucks IMHO. Screw whoever else is out there since you can.

It's no good attacking someone for what many people are going to do, and others have brought up as well. I'm not saying it's ethical, it's just one of the many flaws of the system a huge reason it won't work very well.

So y'all want a better chance at getting tickets? Do what I did in years when I was more flush....buy during the presale. I did that for a few years since...hey, I could afford to pay more and so I did. Isn't that one of the 'rules'? Pay the highest price you can. The last two years I joined the first day fray since I'm a bit more broke, but I'm giving up a bunch of stuff so I can make sure the important things are taken care of, like my BM ticket. I suggest some of the out of the country burners try the first lottery. And to read the JRS notice (it's in full on another thread) rather than base your panic on interpretations of the JRS announcement, the panic driven ruminations and speculations of people that apparently haven't read the announcement either.

The problem is, even if you are willing and able to pay for the highest priced ticket, you are not guaranteed you are going to get one. As I understand it (from reading and re-reading the JRS), if you register for the highest tier and you don't get picked, you are SOL. And what with people entering the lottery multiple times and scalping most likely being much more rampant (due to last year's sell out), there is definitely a chance people will not win, even if they enter the highest tier.

I don't know what the solution is - it seems that non-transferable tickets wouldn't really work, due to people gifting, etc. The best idea I've heard is to sell the highest priced tickets first so that those who can afford them will buy them, leaving the lower priced tickets for those who actually need them. But this doesn't address scalpers at all. Not that BMORG probably cares - they just want to sell all of their tickets, no?

[junglesmacks]

No. The JRS clearly states that you can only win one ticket from each lottery.

Actually no

"- You will only be able to purchase tickets from one lottery
- Yhere will be a limited number of tickets per person"

You can buy tickets from only one lottery, but the number of tickets a person can buy is not yet defined.
I hardly think its going to be 1 person = 1 ticket. Might be 2 to 4. Who knows!

Isn't that what I just said?


Symantics.


EDIT: I see the confusion. I worded what I was trying to say incorrectly. It was only mid-way through my first cup of coffee on a Monday morning..

[junglesmacks]

I only read page 1 of 22 so someone else may have already mentioned this, last year one person requested tickets for four people, this year all four people will request 4 tickets each, so instead of removing four tickets from the 50,000 available they could end up removing 16 tickets, 12 tickets they will have to sell on afterwards.

No. The JRS clearly states that you can only win one ticket from each lottery.

That is not how I read it. I'm reading you can only buy one set number of tickets from one lottery, and that number has not yet been decided. Once you've been selected for one lottery, you are out of the others. Sheer speculation though.

I mean that you can only purchase tickets from one lottery as per the JRS. I was responding to someone thinking that if they bid for tiers 1, 2, 3 and 4that they could potentially win all 4 and have unwanted purchases which isn't going to happen. Whatever tier you win in the lottery, your CC# is ran and your ticket purchased. It doesn't mean that for every individual ticket request with multiple accepted tiers that you will win 4 times for 1 request. Only 1 ticket per ticket request.. not 1 ticket per requested/approved tiers.

[wh..sh]

No. The JRS clearly states that you can only win one ticket from each lottery.[/color]

Actually no

"- You will only be able to purchase tickets from one lottery
- Yhere will be a limited number of tickets per person"

You can buy tickets from only one lottery, but the number of tickets a person can buy is not yet defined.
I hardly think its going to be 1 person = 1 ticket. Might be 2 to 4. Who knows!

Isn't that what I just said?


Symantics.

You can win more than one ticket from each lottery (we just dont know how much). I just don't want you to think that you can't buy a ticket for me if i don't win it

[illy dilly]

My questions:

How many lotteries will there be?

How many tickets are offered in each draw?

Who is validating the draw? An outside authority to make sure it's legit and not just a list of people that are part of large theme camps or A listers?

If I enter a lottery for say - up to the 3rd tier, will I be entered for the drawings that are in lower tiers? And if my name is not drawn in the first lottery, will it stay in the second, third, fourth, ect - if there are any more? Or will I have to re-register? Can I re-register?

If I win in an early lottery, can I sign up for another one to get more tickets for my camp mates?

How many tickets can I sign up for in each lottery? In the past I could buy two tickets at a time, will that be increased to say, four?

What happens if my entry is drawn and my CC is declined that day (for a reason out of my control)? Will I get a chance to give another card number or am I shit out of luck?

I can handle the tickets being shipped in the summer - as long as I know I have a ticket coming at some point I trust the org to send me one if they charge my card.

I have always bought my ticket (2012 will be my fourth burn) on the first day they were available and this whole lottery thing has me pretty freaked out. Get rid of the tiers, put names on the tickets, sell them in person only, whatever - just don't punish us with a lottery chance because your "system" can't handle the load. Buy temporary server space from the cloud if you have to. This isn't rocket science, it's the burn. Figure out a way to make it first-come, first-serve.

Wow, thats pretty much exactly what I was going to say!

I truly feel that this is kinda scary.

I hate to say this so early, but I have a feeling that in 2012 "Last year really was better".
Like so many people have said. Until you know your entire camp has a ticket, you cant plan jack shit.
So much for starting theme camp meetings in January.
There goes trying to be prepared.
Cant reserve the box truck,
Cant reserve an RV, if you need one,
Do I bother to take the time off work? (might as well I guess, can't hurt)
How do I bother to fill out the theme camp registration?
In the question how many people are in your camp do I answer "I don't know! You tell me!"

[junglesmacks]

Jesus H Christ, Illy. Come on now. You're smarter than that.. I know that for a fact.

Did you know if you would have a ticket last year? No. Did you get one anyway because you planned early? Yup.

Will you get a ticket early this year if you plan early? Yup.



See your bitch ass in the dust. NOW GET BACK TO WORK! I have boating to do.

[trilobyte]

@jkisha & @A Jester - keep in mind that the event still falls under the domain of (and is managed by) the LLC. Also, the 'new' people to the Project's board are individuals who are very familiar with Burning Man, the BMOrg, and the principles. They bring to the table additional expertise in both leadership in the non-profit space as well as working with municipal government, which is in line with what the BM Project hopes to do in both the short and long term. Over time (a couple years away, assuming everything goes smoothly) the event will transition to the BM Project, but the various departments within the org that run the event under the LLC are expected to continue to have the same involvement under the Project.

[remi]

Sorry if this was already mentioned time and time again, but why don't they just make it a lottery for the first (and maybe second) tier of ticket prices?

Many pros.. can't think of any cons.

One pro: The people that can afford the expensive ones will purchase them right away, rather then try to use the lotto to get cheaper tickets.

[Nipple]

To use the logic I've seen elsewhere here...

To do a lottery for the cheaper tiers but first come first served for the more expensive...

It would come across as saying "People who have money may come at will... if you don't... good luck."

[Sham]

I would like to offer up what I think may be the simplest solution to the ticket issue yet. So many times problems are over thought to the point of disaster. SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!

This past year, the servers crashed due to everyone getting on at 10:00 sharp to order their tickets. What a mess that turned out to be.

Tickets are sold in tiers to encourage early buying and to keep cash flowing into the org during the early parts of the year, and slowly increase in price as the lower tiers sell out.

Why not make all the tickets sold pre-event one price---let's say $265 each. They will sell steadily, and will continue to sell with a fear that the event may sell out altogether. The reasons for having tiered pricing are no longer valid, and it's only causing anguish and resentment at all levels.

One price of $265 pre-event, and tickets at the gate $400 each.

[remi]

To use the logic I've seen elsewhere here...

To do a lottery for the cheaper tiers but first come first served for the more expensive...

It would come across as saying "People who have money may come at will... if you don't... good luck."

This will free up more of the cheaper tickets for the people who can only afford the cheaper tickets.. so it would be in their best interest to shut their mouth and smile. If they raise there prices, people could say the same thing.. about only people with money being able to "come at will."

Nevertheless.. thank you for pointing out a con in using that system.

[illy dilly]

Jesus H Christ, Illy. Come on now. You're smarter than that.. I know that for a fact.
Did you know if you would have a ticket last year? No. Did you get one anyway because you planned early? Yup.
Will you get a ticket early this year if you plan early? Yup.

I have feeling that you are correct. But for now, there is no guarantee that EVERYONE will get a ticket. If there was then the lottery system would not be necessary.
And you are right, by some means or another, I will get a couple tickets for me and the misses. But, will the rest of my theme camp?
I must also add: I got to my desk, checked my email, saw the JRS, went instantly to the tickets portion.... then proceeded to freak out, and post on eplaya as quickly as possible.

See your bitch ass in the dust. NOW GET BACK TO WORK! I have boating to do.

FUCKER!!!!
I'll work if I want to work!
"your not the boss of me"

Enjoy your boating! I hope it rains!

[Simon of the Playa]

who really gives a flying fuck about this bullshit?

Havent you HEARD?

ROOT SOCIETY IS COMING BACK!!!

all is well in the universe, so sit down, shut up, and have a bloody mary with us on sunday morning after sunrise, come for the vodka, stay for the ice cold celery sticks.

[illy dilly]

Why not make all the tickets sold pre-event one price---let's say $265 each. They will sell steadily, and will continue to sell with a fear that the event may sell out altogether. The reasons for having tiered pricing are no longer valid, and it's only causing anguish and resentment at all levels.

One price of $265 pre-event, and tickets at the gate $400 each.

I think this would be the best bet. And people that wait to long to get there ticket well simple They waited too long to get their ticket.

Or maybe even do it at $280 and use the little bit of delta revenue between all the $240 and $260 tickets to offer more low income/scholarship tickets.
Folks will grip and bitch over the raise in lowest tiers, so let them apply for scholarship tickets.

But, we can make all the suggestions we want, the BMorg has already decided how they plan to sell tickets for 2012.

[Savannah]

Do I bother to take the time off work? (might as well I guess, can't hurt)

YES. YES, you do.

You do not want to hear how loudly I will laugh at you, if you-&-yours get your tickets . . . and your boss says "no".

But you will hear me laugh, because 1) you know better 2) I'm loud 3) and you're only in Colorado.

[Roberto Dobbisano]

who really gives a flying fuck about this bullshit?

Havent you HEARD?

ROOT SOCIETY IS COMING BACK!!!

all is well in the universe, so sit down, shut up, and have a bloody mary with us on sunday morning after sunrise, come for the vodka, stay for the ice cold celery sticks.

Oh, I HERD...

[Ugly Dougly]

Admit it, we're all feeling a little entitled right about now.

[Jewel Man]

Franklin1948- I've worked for non profit organizations. .... Some are true non-profit most are not.  Idk about bmorg. 

Jewel_man- if you do go through with this, I seriously hope u get kicked the fuck out with no vehicle, water, food.  I am no hippie, nor am I a raver.  I don't like dubstep, trance or any of that shit.  I am not afraid to hate,  I constantly yell at people on playa, it's my way of countering the huggy hippy happy crap. But you sir, I would love to see get kicked out. Put down your Starbucks and get a clue.

Joshy - Wow, easy with the hating! I am starting the Occupy Balck Rock City Movement for all of us who have felt the oppression of the Elders decision to unilaterally decide what is right for the whole community without considering the People's input. We the People fund the whole experience so why shouldn't we have a say on who gets selected to participate. I'm sorry that you feel that I don't have the right to protest their Lotto decison in a peaceful manner. I am not asking that you participate so please do not wish me ill will. It is my butt on the line and I would think you would cheer me on in my cause to bring the Lotto down and all the lack of transparency that goes with it. The Lotto presents a perfect environment for someone to become the ultimate "Decider" of who get's to go and who doesn't. And by the way I don't drink coffee but maybe you need to pickup the pipe and mellow out.

[illy dilly]

Do I bother to take the time off work? (might as well I guess, can't hurt)

YES. YES, you do.

You do not want to hear how loudly I will laugh at you, if you-&-yours get your tickets . . . and your boss says "no".

But you will hear me laugh, because 1) you know better 2) I'm loud 3) and you're only in Colorado.

It might just be worth screwing it up, to hear the thunderous laugh of Savannah from 4 states away!

But in all actuality it is implied that I have the 15 days right around Labor Day off work, out of town, and absolutely out of range of cell phones. And after returning to work with a renewed energy and drive in 2010, its was encouraged that I go in 2011.

[Simon of the Playa]

Joshy - Wow, easy with the hating! I am starting the Occupy Balck Rock City Movement for all of us who have felt the oppression of the Elders decision to unilaterally decide what is right for the whole community without considering the People's input. We the People fund the whole experience so why shouldn't we have a say on who gets selected to participate. I'm sorry that you feel that I don't have the right to protest their Lotto decison in a peaceful manner. I am not asking that you participate so please do not wish me ill will. It is my butt on the line and I would think you would cheer me on in my cause to bring the Lotto down and all the lack of transparency that goes with it. The Lotto presents a perfect environment for someone to become the ultimate "Decider" of who get's to go and who doesn't. And by the way I don't drink coffee but maybe you need to pickup the pipe and mellow out.

shut up, hippy.

[Jewel Man]

Joshy - Wow, easy with the hating! I am starting the Occupy Balck Rock City Movement for all of us who have felt the oppression of the Elders decision to unilaterally decide what is right for the whole community without considering the People's input. We the People fund the whole experience so why shouldn't we have a say on who gets selected to participate. I'm sorry that you feel that I don't have the right to protest their Lotto decison in a peaceful manner. I am not asking that you participate so please do not wish me ill will. It is my butt on the line and I would think you would cheer me on in my cause to bring the Lotto down and all the lack of transparency that goes with it. The Lotto presents a perfect environment for someone to become the ultimate "Decider" of who get's to go and who doesn't. And by the way I don't drink coffee but maybe you need to pickup the pipe and mellow out.

shut up, hippy.

Wow, more hating. Are you on the Berkeley police force? This hatred just strengthens my resolve. I refuse to take it personally, instead I will channel it into positive energy that will help me defeat the tyranny of the BMORG and their Lotto cause.

[Savannah]

This hatred just strengthens my resolve. I refuse to take it personally, instead I will channel it into positive energy that will help me defeat the tyranny of the BMORG and their Lotto cause.

Good. You might do okay here.

[Nipple]

It's OK Jewel... just be sure to have a spray bottle with a equal parts mix of Malox, Vodka, and Orange Juice. If Simon gasses you, just spray it into your eyes and mouth.

Be prepared to guide other people to you and spray them as well.

[illy dilly]

shut up, hippy.

Don't worry Simon, the joke wasn't lost on all of us.

On another note, your new icon/avatar thing is awesome!