New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

[trilobyte]

@vargaso, then by all means continue with your freakout.

@gyre, stay tuned, there will be more low income opportunities in 2012 than there have been in the past.

[BeachBum]

I remain saying that tickets need matched to a name. The scalpers will get heavily involved if this is not done. While not having tickets matched to a name would not hurt the BMOrg and those who are guaranteed tickets due to their volunteer contributions (THANK YOU!), this will cause pain for participants and for us trying to provide camps/art/art cars/interactivity/... to the event.

I realize that a ticket-name match will cause some difficulties, but the descriptions of the difficulties seem overblown. There's no need for a big computer upgrade, or matching tickets to photos, ... Put a line on the tickets for the participant's name, and fill it in by hand with a check-ink pen when it is to be mailed. If the legalities of this require the ticket agreement to be changed from a "contract" to a "license", and an address hand printed on the ticket, so be it. Charge like $50 for returned tickets to pay people processing them and re-issuing them, more as the event draws closer.

At the gate, the ticket taker would do a quick check. No need for anything more complicated. Just from my experiences coming in the gate, the delays seem caused by the search, not the next step of the ticket takers. As well as unavoidable delays being caused by the dust storms, ... Just do a cursory search of the cars and tickets-name, instead of intense ones, and shunt the people who have issues to the side somehow. I know gate people have detailed knowledge of their processes, which i don't have, and they deserve our thanks for doing this function, maybe one of them can weigh in with an informed response on this.

I believe that this would substantially cut down in the initial over-demand by groups and scalpers trying to game the lottery to lower than the expected 50K or so cap, and provide far less pain for us trying to legitimately obtain tickets to this wonderful event.

[A Jester]

I remain saying that tickets need matched to a name. The scalpers will get heavily involved if this is not done. While not having tickets matched to a name would not hurt the BMOrg and those who are guaranteed tickets due to their volunteer contributions (THANK YOU!), this will cause pain for participants and for us trying to provide camps/art/art cars/interactivity/... to the event.

I realize that a ticket-name match will cause some difficulties, but the descriptions of the difficulties seem overblown. There's no need for a big computer upgrade, or matching tickets to photos, ... Put a line on the tickets for the participant's name, and fill it in by hand with a check-ink pen when it is to be mailed. If the legalities of this require the ticket agreement to be changed from a "contract" to a "license", and an address hand printed on the ticket, so be it. Charge like $50 for returned tickets to pay people processing them and re-issuing them, more as the event draws closer.

At the gate, the ticket taker would do a quick check. No need for anything more complicated. Just from my experiences coming in the gate, the delays seem caused by the search, not the next step of the ticket takers. As well as unavoidable delays being caused by the dust storms, ... Just do a cursory search of the cars and tickets-name, instead of intense ones, and shunt the people who have issues to the side somehow. I know gate people have detailed knowledge of their processes, which i don't have, and they deserve our thanks for doing this function, maybe one of them can weigh in with an informed response on this.

I believe that this would substantially cut down in the initial over-demand by groups and scalpers trying to game the lottery to lower than the expected 50K or so cap, and provide far less pain for us trying to legitimately obtain tickets to this wonderful event.

Nice idea, but I think banning DJs is going to be a lot eaiser

[theCryptofishist]

Some consideration of logistics for the gate line. Note, I know some of the gate staffers that chimed in, and believe that they are not exageratting for effect.

[junglesmacks]

Some consideration of logistics for the gate line. Note, I know some of the gate staffers that chimed in, and believe that they are not exageratting for effect.

That will keep 'em busy and quiet for a while. Quick thinking.

[BeachBum]

Some consideration of logistics for the gate line. Note, I know some of the gate staffers that chimed in, and believe that they are not exageratting for effect.

Geez, Cryptofishish, that thread was long in their discussions. But it's main point is that the delay at the gate is primarily due to the search, and secondarily by people not following the directions of the people who kindly volunteer for gate. My experience entering the gate is that the search is done, then i have moved up a touch to have the ticket taken. What i am commenting on is that the delays by the search is the determinant of the entrance lines delay. Not a subsequent potential delay by a name-ticket match with the people needing to have both the ticket and an ID ready up ahead of the search and the need to shunt them to the side if they could not come up with the ticket and an ID in short order. If there is a gate person who provided a detailed response to this, if you could kindly quote this response, it would be appreciated. Thanks.

[A Jester]

Some consideration of logistics for the gate line. Note, I know some of the gate staffers that chimed in, and believe that they are not exageratting for effect.

Geez, Cryptofishish, that thread was long in their discussions. But it's main point is that the delay at the gate is primarily due to the search, and secondarily by people not following the directions of the people who kindly volunteer for gate. My experience entering the gate is that the search is done, then i have moved up a touch to have the ticket taken. What i am commenting on is that the delays by the search is the determinant of the entrance lines delay. Not a subsequent potential delay by a name-ticket match with the people needing to have both the ticket and an ID ready up ahead of the search and the need to shunt them to the side if they could not come up with the ticket and an ID in short order. If there is a gate person who provided a detailed response to this, if you could kindly quote this response, it would be appreciated. Thanks.

Not a gate person, but I can tell you what I got from that thread wasn't "it's only the searches that take so long" but rather "It's very hard and takes a long time and you have no idea how hard we work to get it as good as it is. If you change anything it will probably get worse."

[theCryptofishist]

The shunting is it's own problem. Plus, how are you going to match the ticket with a name. Writing it on there is ... goofy...

[wh..sh]

The shunting is it's own problem. Plus, how are you going to match the ticket with a name. Writing it on there is ... goofy...

Ticket with name is bad idea! If I am a scalper, I would get say 50 tickets with really common names. Then I would start a business of providing fake IDs as well. From what I see, most burners with no ticket will be desperate enough to pay more for fake ID along with the ticket from the scalper. Tell me I am wrong.

[gyre]

Using a fake id is now a serious crime in most places, thank you patriot act.


At the least, scalpers could face a financial loss when caught, providing the right ticket terms.


They do it for two hour concerts now.


I have confidence in the gatefolk handling this.

[Canoe]

Using a fake id is now a serious crime in most places, thank you patriot act...

Some places you can use up to five fake names, provided you're prepared to answer to any and all charges you, um, "acquire" under that name.
But with something as simple as fingerprints, DNA and such, that has been eclipsed.

[gyre]

Using different names used to be legal as long as no fraud was intended or committed.

This comes up in business, performers, etc.

Some things once allowed in banking are now prohibited, effectively, due to id law.

In nevada, cursory search says zero time to twenty years in prison for id fraud, depending on circumstances.

[A Jester]

Using a fake id is now a serious crime in most places, thank you patriot act.


At the least, scalpers could face a financial loss when caught, providing the right ticket terms.


They do it for two hour concerts now.


I have confidence in the gatefolk handling this.

I have no doubt they could handle it. They're bad ass. However, the monkey wrench it would through into the gate line, and the resulting longer lines, would be difficult for people to handle.

I bet people just like you would come up with clever sounding solutions they couldn't understand why the Org didn't enact.

Frankly, I think the whole thing is a non-starter from having someone hand write a name on each ticket. 50,000 is a lot of names not to get wrong.

[theCryptofishist]

I bet people just like you would come up with clever sounding solutions they couldn't understand why the Org didn't enact.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

[trilobyte]

Have no fear, tickets will not be matched to a name.

[gyre]

I bet people just like you would come up with clever sounding solutions they couldn't understand why the Org didn't enact.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

This probably means something.

[theCryptofishist]

Full dna scan, huh.

[lemur]

having tickets connected to names would cut down on the lucrative collectibles market for such cultural ephemera..

[gyre]

I have no doubt they could handle it. They're bad ass. However, the monkey wrench it would through into the gate line, and the resulting longer lines, would be difficult for people to handle.

I bet people just like you would come up with clever sounding solutions they couldn't understand why the Org didn't enact.

Frankly, I think the whole thing is a non-starter from having someone hand write a name on each ticket. 50,000 is a lot of names not to get wrong.

This sounds clever, but, perhaps ironically, doesn't mean anything.

I never suggested handwriting names.
Accuracy is important, but they already have to get names right for you to get your ticket in the mail.

Someone from gate, lor maybe, wrote a long treatise about how many other things slowed entry besides the first gate search. especially during the heavy traffic.
Ticket taking doesn't appear to be an issue thnough.

Can you explain why looking at an id adds an insurmountable amount of time?
Will call does it and that part takes them seconds.
The only time cost would be transfer of tickets.


Scalping is so invasive in the ticket market for concerts that even when you don't buy from one, just attending supports them.
Promoters may think they are untouched, but enough people won't participate at all in that game now.
I'm starting to see empty venues that "sold out".

If scalping becomes a problem for us, it is worth removing.

Of course, my favorite solution would be to fine tune the demand in the first place, removing scalpers from the equation.

Burning man can't be everything, though it may seem so.

[Paloma8]

So hours of frustration (the result of which is a ticket, maybe not at the price tier you hoped, but still, a ticket) will, apparently, turn into weeks if not months of frustration and worry as you wait to see if your number is picked to get a golden ticket. Seems reasonable.

RIGHT ! ! ! I'd take the HOURS versus the months... there is little information about how they are going to conduct this, but it's clear they want it spread over months. MONTHS is too long for the 30pages of reasons listed prior.

Forget that the same horrid waiting period will not automatically result in a ticket.

With zero information added to the pool AND "they" must be aware everyone is freaking out.... I begin to think they are just trying to wear out the first tier of burners, after all there's only so much we can say without repeating ourselves 100 times. First announce on JRS...

[theCryptofishist]

With zero information added to the pool AND "they" must be aware everyone is freaking out.... I begin to think they are just trying to wear out the first tier of burners, after all there's only so much we can say without repeating ourselves 100 times.

Actually, they are trying to induce baroque conspiricy theories in the minds of burners...

[A Jester]

With zero information added to the pool AND "they" must be aware everyone is freaking out.... I begin to think they are just trying to wear out the first tier of burners, after all there's only so much we can say without repeating ourselves 100 times. First announce on JRS...

I think that mark has been hit. If only there were an option other than freaking out.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Can you explain why looking at an id adds an insurmountable amount of time?
Will call does it and that part takes them seconds.
The only time cost would be transfer of tickets.


Scalping is so invasive in the ticket market for concerts that even when you don't buy from one, just attending supports them.
Promoters may think they are untouched, but enough people won't participate at all in that game now.
I'm starting to see empty venues that "sold out".

If scalping becomes a problem for us, it is worth removing.

Of course, my favorite solution would be to fine tune the demand in the first place, removing scalpers from the equation.

In a perfect world, looking at a ticket won't take much more time. But if you forgot your id, or if you smeared your name, or if anything at all goes wrong, it suddenly becomes a 30 minute to two day problem. Now Gayte has to find a way to shuffle you off to the side, and they have said that creates a huge problem for them.

In a more philosophical manner I say, if this system is already overworked and still gets complaints, how could making it more complicated really help?

I'm not convinced that a name on a ticket (one that I'd assume isn't embossed, so could probably be changed fairly easily) is going to stop scalping. I do see how it might result in a lot of dedicated burners with bad luck not getting through the gate.

Demand was pretty well fine tuned until last year, when we were on a temporary permit. Seems like we might be able to hit that metric again if we're lucky.

[TEFKAA]

Not sure if this has been posted already: http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-th ... et-lottery
It's a petition to stop the lottery. At least it'll give folks an outlet for their ticket rage...

[junglesmacks]

Not sure if this has been posted already: http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-th ... et-lottery
It's a petition to stop the lottery. At least it'll give folks an outlet for their ticket rage...

Yeah.. a few times.

Do me a favor. C:\>format c:*.*

[TEFKAA]

[quote="junglesmacks"][quote="TEFKAA"]Not sure if this has been posted already: http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-th ... et-lottery
It's a petition to stop the lottery. At least it'll give folks an outlet for their ticket rage...[/quote]


Yeah.. a few times.

Do me a favor. C:\>format c:*.*[/quote]

There were so few signers I thought maybe it hadn't made it to eplaya yet. Sorry for reposting. What does "Do me a favor. C:\>format c:*.*" mean?

[tamarakay]

It means junglesmacks is getting cranky, ignore him.
Most of us on eplaya are waiting for more details before we go into full blown panic mode. And we are all hoping that Junglesmacks has to purchase his ticket on the black market and has to blow Shambala's mom.

Hi! How are you?

[TEFKAA]

...backing away slowly from angry ticket lottery thread...

Hi Tamarakay - thanks for the reply. I knew folks were getting uppity over the ticket lottery, but geesh.

I am fan-freakin-tastic...and I hope you are as well. I think I saw your posts in another thread...painting fabric as I recall? Love the idea...Good luck with that!

[tamarakay]

fanfreakingtastic just about describes it for me to! We are extremely excited about our little camp, hope we both win the lottery and you get to come by and paint with us.

[TEFKAA]

Would love to...can't wait!

[junglesmacks]

lol.. it's Friday. Take a joke.