International question

[quadraspleen]

Ok, here's the thing: we reckon, after much exhausting research (we guessed over a drink) that international burners, such as myself and our crew, make up up to a third of the total attendees at BM.

Usually, and in order to alleviate the tedium and crush (last year excluded) of will call, we all get our tix mailed to one of our many US friends houses, and they meet us in SF, Reno, wherever. Whatso, this year?

Is it the case that you will ONLY be able to pick up at will call? If so, you've just re-created a problem that was nearly eliminated last year..the first time I went to BM I stood, in a dust storm mostly, at will call for over four hours, in what can only be described as a throng, not a line, a throng. It didn't so much as move, than blob, as people pushed in, saw friends and amalgamated etc. It sucked, much as I imagine not being American sucks

Please tell me that if I have got as far as actually winning the "auction" (which is a really dumbshit idea in the first place - I mean, credit cards only?. Wtf? What about all of my PayPal money I've been hoarding for exactly this?) that I'm not going to be able to give an alternate US address?

Say it ain't so, ma...

Yes, I've read and re-read the FAQ.

[trilobyte]

Hi quadraspleen, welcome to ePlaya! Information about service fees, taxes, and shipping will be posted by the time registration begins. Shipping rates/methods have not changed from last year.

[delle]

Actually, they didn't go up in the States, but there appears to be a $10 increase to Canada, judging by what you posted elsewhere. (was $19 last year and $29 this year according to your rates listed)

I just wanted to remind those considering going from Canada that we CAN get tickets mailed. So many seem to think that Will Call is the only option once out of the States, but we are the exception.

[junglesmacks]

FWIW, there's no way I'd peg the number at a third.. not even close. More like.. 1/8? If that?

[quadraspleen]

Hey all,

Thanks for the informative and speedy replies.

@ Trilobyte: so, on that basis, I will be able to get a ticket sent to an address that is NOT the primary CC address, as I did before when I used Paypal.

@ Junglesmacks: You think? That low? It's still a large number of people >2000 I'd bet..Imagine if they all decide to come on Monday! Will call will be a mess again!

It seems to me this whole thing is a bit of a pig in a poke..Uneccessary unless your aim is to make the whole process a) more complicated than it really needs to be, and b) you are trying to maximise profit. I did read somewhere that this Burn is being run by the LLC rather than the project. Not really sure what that means bar companies having to file tax and so on..does seem to be taking a bit too much of a corporate turn...let's hope we all "win" one of the "auctions" or our party is screwed!

Thaks again for your help, fellow burners. I love you all!

[junglesmacks]

@ Junglesmacks: You think? That low? It's still a large number of people >2000 I'd bet..Imagine if they all decide to come on Monday! Will call will be a mess again!

Complete speculation on my part, of course. Actually.. 1/8th of a population using last years numbers would be 6750. That seems about right to me. I'm just going over the basic ratio in my head of people that I meet.. and I feel like the number could be possibly lower..? More like.. 1 in 20/30?

No matter, you're an important part and I for one wish there were more! I love the outside influence and the determination that it takes to travel overseas to make it to a festival such as BM. If you're that determined to make it, you definitely want it bad enough and are that much more happy to be there.

Welcome!

[Dustyrusty]

In 2007 & 2008, the census showed 15% (+/- 1%) of people who answered the census were not eligible to vote in the us. So somewhere below that would be the international population...assuming you can extrapolate from the census data.

[trilobyte]

@quadraspleen - I've been told that the shipping rates have not changed. Read through the registration form carefully when that opens up in the coming weeks to see what the specific rules/limitations are.

[Eric]

I did read somewhere that this Burn is being run by the LLC rather than the project. Not really sure what that means bar companies having to file tax and so on..does seem to be taking a bit too much of a corporate turn...

Every single Burn since '98 has been run by this version of the LLC; i.e. If you've been to a Burn since then, you've been to one run by the LLC. It's changing to a non-profit, not away from it; and the change to the Project is supposed to take something like 5 years (I don't have the number at hand, so I may be off on that. It is a multi-year transition however)

[junglesmacks]

In 2007 & 2008, the census showed 15% (+/- 1%) of people who answered the census were not eligible to vote in the us. So somewhere below that would be the international population...assuming you can extrapolate from the census data.

Not sure if that's a reliable way to extrapolate the data. I'm inelligible to vote in the US, and I'm a citizen. There are many with my type of case..

[BBadger]

In 2007 & 2008, the census showed 15% (+/- 1%) of people who answered the census were not eligible to vote in the us. So somewhere below that would be the international population...assuming you can extrapolate from the census data.

Not sure if that's a reliable way to extrapolate the data. I'm inelligible to vote in the US, and I'm a citizen. There are many with my type of case..

Was that from all your black rhino horn powder trafficking?

[junglesmacks]

In 2007 & 2008, the census showed 15% (+/- 1%) of people who answered the census were not eligible to vote in the us. So somewhere below that would be the international population...assuming you can extrapolate from the census data.

Not sure if that's a reliable way to extrapolate the data. I'm inelligible to vote in the US, and I'm a citizen. There are many with my type of case..

Was that from all your black rhino horn powder trafficking?

Nope.. concealing a deadly weapon in my crotch.

[graidawg]

it seems to me that BMorg is relying on the burner community a bit TOO heavily here. for a start it is relying its volounteer mods to smooth over this lottery fiasco. then about 80% of the tickets are being sold in it. with only 20% being sold in direct sale, the one that people who plan can do their best to obtain a ticket and relying on the aftersale market for people to get tickets.
Now I was told that 50% of the people at BM are people who have been before thats 25000 for 2012 say they all apply for 2 tickets thats the lottery oversold straight away forget scalpers or people using multiple cards in different names. so before we even start we have 10000 people looking for tickets lets say half of them have got tickets through friends or multiple cards.
so we have 5000 people who wanted tickets but failed to get them in the first round. now we add in the other 50% the newbies by my earlier count thats 25000 people so now we have 30,000 people after 10,000 tickets. thats a massive over subscription but. big but its still only 50,000 people after 50,000 tickets however 60% have tickets and the rest dont.
the real question is how many of the ticket holders are going to sell them at face(ish) value when they can sell them off for a profit? lets be genorous and say 75%. a quck bit off mental arithmetic says thats 5000 tickets being sold at a profit. Or to put it another way 10% off the people who go not being introduced to BM as burners but as victims of Bmorg just not addressing this ticket issue as a business should.
let me explain for those not following this, if i sell you a ticket for $390 and you have 2 people offering you money for it who are you going to sell to? the person who offers the most money of course.
now up till now Bm hasnt had this problem because there has always been more tickets than people that want them so reselling at profit didnt make sense. now its the other way round. If you can buy 4 tickets for $1560 and sell one for $1500 and at the worst sell them for face value are you going to resist the chance? most of the people you know arent.
are you going to give a ticket away, knowing full well that the person receiving it can sell it for $$$$. are you the proffesional ticket tout going to resist the urge to see how much you are going to make. Knowing full well YOU WILL NOT LOSE. you can always sell the ticket for face value if nobody buys at your inflated price. people bought tickets from resellers even when it wasnt sold out how many more are going to when it is? 80% of the tickets will sell on feb 1st without a doubt and 15000 of the people who try to get one probably wont
this will be the first year that there will be more people going to see what other people have done than are going to do something themselves. 2013 they will have to employ people to put on the art. the year after that....... well last year really could have been better I am so glad i got to go because soon it may well be just a camping trip in the desert

[Rice]

it seems to me that BMorg is relying on the burner community a bit TOO heavily here. for a start it is relying its volounteer mods to smooth over this lottery fiasco. then about 80% of the tickets are being sold in it. with only 20% being sold in direct sale, the one that people who plan can do their best to obtain a ticket and relying on the aftersale market for people to get tickets.
Now I was told that 50% of the people at BM are people who have been before thats 25000 for 2012 say they all apply for 2 tickets thats the lottery oversold straight away forget scalpers or people using multiple cards in different names. so before we even start we have 10000 people looking for tickets lets say half of them have got tickets through friends or multiple cards.
so we have 5000 people who wanted tickets but failed to get them in the first round. now we add in the other 50% the newbies by my earlier count thats 25000 people so now we have 30,000 people after 10,000 tickets. thats a massive over subscription but. big but its still only 50,000 people after 50,000 tickets however 60% have tickets and the rest dont.
the real question is how many of the ticket holders are going to sell them at face(ish) value when they can sell them off for a profit? lets be genorous and say 75%. a quck bit off mental arithmetic says thats 5000 tickets being sold at a profit. Or to put it another way 10% off the people who go not being introduced to BM as burners but as victims of Bmorg just not addressing this ticket issue as a business should.
let me explain for those not following this, if i sell you a ticket for $390 and you have 2 people offering you money for it who are you going to sell to? the person who offers the most money of course.
now up till now Bm hasnt had this problem because there has always been more tickets than people that want them so reselling at profit didnt make sense. now its the other way round. If you can buy 4 tickets for $1560 and sell one for $1500 and at the worst sell them for face value are you going to resist the chance? most of the people you know arent.
are you going to give a ticket away, knowing full well that the person receiving it can sell it for $$$$. are you the proffesional ticket tout going to resist the urge to see how much you are going to make. Knowing full well YOU WILL NOT LOSE. you can always sell the ticket for face value if nobody buys at your inflated price. people bought tickets from resellers even when it wasnt sold out how many more are going to when it is? 80% of the tickets will sell on feb 1st without a doubt and 15000 of the people who try to get one probably wont
this will be the first year that there will be more people going to see what other people have done than are going to do something themselves. 2013 they will have to employ people to put on the art. the year after that....... well last year really could have been better I am so glad i got to go because soon it may well be just a camping trip in the desert

Uh?

Penguin, chicken, $1500 - Lose, Virgin, scalper?

[Dr. Pyro]

What do you mean, "Uh?" We don't consider Canadians to be "international". They're almost Alaskan fercrissakes.

[junglesmacks]

What do you mean, "Uh?" We don't consider Canadians to be "international". They're almost Alaskan fercrissakes.

Lol.. I seriously in my head was not even counting Canadians.. and not on purpose, either.