Suicidal Tendencies

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delle
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by delle » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:30 pm

FIGJAM wrote:
A simple change in perspective is all it takes.

Look at anything from as many angles as possible and be creative as hell in that process.

Takes practice, because you've had years of practice thinking "All I have is a fucked up truck!"

Word!

Practice, and constant vigilance at first. Being aware of where our thoughts are going and consciously redirecting them is a bit arduous in the beginning, but even if you don't believe in the new direction, do it anyway.

Slowly (like as in Really Slowly) the new direction starts actually being more believable, and one day... lo and behold.... you'll find that they're the default. Now THAT is a good day (with a promise of many more)!
Worry is a misuse of imagination

She had blue skin, And so did he.
He kept it hid And so did she.
They searched for blue Their whole life through,
Then passed right by- And never knew.”

Shel Silverstein

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Savannah
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by Savannah » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:33 pm

I too have heard really good things about Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for retraining the brain from self-destructive patterns. What appeals to me is that the therapy is not open-ended/meant to just . . . go on forever. It's strategy.

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theCryptofishist
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:39 pm

It's very practical and result oriented.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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FIGJAM
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by FIGJAM » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:45 pm

The way it's described in the book is to think about the first time you drove a car with a manual transmission.

3 peddles, 2 feet, gear shift, how fast to let out the clutch.

It took alot of thinking to get the car moving.

But one day after lots of PRACTICE there comes a time when you can just get in the car and drive away without really having to think about it!

This process is the same thing. 8)
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

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ibdave
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by ibdave » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:37 pm

FIGJAM wrote:The way it's described in the book is to think about the first time you drove a car with a manual transmission.

3 peddles, 2 feet, gear shift, how fast to let out the clutch.

It took alot of thinking to get the car moving.

But one day after lots of PRACTICE there comes a time when you can just get in the car and drive away without really having to think about it!

This process is the same thing. 8)
But, from the other side:
Your great with the manual transmission and your at a slight slop with a stop sign.
Ya let the clutch slip and you start sliding back.
We all know sometimes it tricky to get it going back up and OVER that slope.


And that's harder for some than others. even harder for some to understand at all.....
I was Born OK the 1st Time....

Don't bring defaultia to Burning Man, take Burning Man to defaultia...... graidawg

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by FIGJAM » Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:26 pm

The point is the change in the thinking process.

From constant present moment thinking, to automaticly doing whats been ingrained! 8)
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by ibdave » Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:56 pm

and from in MY shoes, your going to find those slopes in life... I agree with ya FG 100% on paper and such and then the big BUT happens. Right now Elliott is getten a new heavy duty clutch. 8) 8) 8)


I know about the roller coaster and re-programing the brain, and have not drank 24+ yrs. BUT-Happens.. :shock:
I was Born OK the 1st Time....

Don't bring defaultia to Burning Man, take Burning Man to defaultia...... graidawg

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Elliot
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by Elliot » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:10 pm

maryanimal wrote:Hi Elliot!! Nice to see you. Hope you've had a relaxing week. Have you thought about moving to Davis? Maybe you won't feel/be so isolated. I understand the snowbird thing now. I'd love to be in a warmer place right now. Maybe Hawaii!!
Maryanimal: The climate is the same in Clearlake and in Davis -- only 90 miles apart. But continents apart in terms of culture, education, enlightenment and so forth. I would very much like to live in Davis, but cannot afford it. So must explore other possibilities. But a relaxing week here as a house guest, thank you.

Now.... How are you doing this week, Maryanimal?

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Elliot
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by Elliot » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:19 pm

Sounds fine. But we are dealing with a patient (me) who ... in a sense... is not interested in such therapy -- because I'm going to be dead soon anyway.

As I perceive it, that's where it stops -- stops before I get started.

Not thinking real clearly this evening. Will try again tomorrow.

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:00 pm

Elliot wrote:
Sounds fine. But we are dealing with a patient (me) who ... in a sense... is not interested in such therapy -- because I'm going to be dead soon anyway.

As I perceive it, that's where it stops -- stops before I get started.

Not thinking real clearly this evening. Will try again tomorrow.
Yeah, there is a moment where you have to have the faith to try. But you said not this year. So you have four or five weeks to practice.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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gyre
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by gyre » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:18 pm

Elliot, you have to believe that things can get better.

imaging techniques can show the brain light up from satisfaction, pleasure, and the different ways that drugs or alcohol can affect different people differently.

Perhaps more important, people that have used drugs for an extensive period can have a long recovery time for normal pleasure triggers to work properly again, even as simple as "i feel good today."
Depression may have the same effect.
Even chemical changes caused by your own thoughts may need a recovery time.

A friend of mine recovering from thirty years of massive drug use, said he has been told that some people like him may need as long as ten years for normal happiness to return.
He feels certain this will happen and seems content to proceed on that basis.
Scans show a measure of recovery after normal crack use over a period of less than a year.

Even after experiencing a renaissance of life, there will still be days of drudgery.
You must find a way to look beyond that, even with chemical help.

When I first started walking after my crash and surgery, it was a struggle, but highly exhilarating.
My first walk was about fifty feet and I slept for three days after that.

After my next surgery, a much milder operation, I found it a struggle to do anything physical.
It never got as easy as before.
It turns out that this is a fairly common phenomenon.
I'm not sure why.

So it can all be a bit delicate and mysterious.

In a way, Elliot, you own your life after this.
You can feel a measure of control ordinary people never have.
That is worth something, by itself.

There is strong statistical evidence that your genetic background may predispose you to depression.
You have to consider that some chemical help may be needed, and hopefully temporarily.

Can you find empowerment in living for other people?

There are so many people that could benefit from your capabilities.
If I start an ngo in Bhutan, want to go?
It'll make for a change.
You could work for Médecins Sans Frontières or teach at a Hillary school in nepal.
I have a friend that repairs houses on an indian reservation every summer.

Our bike co-op needs more people that actually know bikes.

You're a skilled writer.
You could do stories and dockos other people find too hard to tackle.

You could become a somali pirate or syrian protester, there's your high risk.

You're not finished yet.
Don't you want to see Nessa in Sri Lanka, just once? The festival of lights?


As for the basics, are you getting enough sunlight and exercise?
Enough vitamin D?
We all have to take care of ourselves, moreso at these times.

You're not done with your story, Elliot.

And Elliot, I'm glad at least you and Delle didn't misunderstand me.
The rest of you, welcome to the interweb, try to keep up.

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delle
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by delle » Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:54 am

Elliot wrote:
Sounds fine. But we are dealing with a patient (me) who ... in a sense... is not interested in such therapy -- because I'm going to be dead soon anyway.

As I perceive it, that's where it stops -- stops before I get started.

Not thinking real clearly this evening. Will try again tomorrow.
It needn't be therapy, as in with a therapist. It's something that you can just do for your own self. Costs nothing, takes no time out of your day at all, and is actually pretty eye opening. And kinda like Kegel exercises, noone even has to know your doing them!!! :lol:


I wonder if I could be so bold as to ask you to reconsider your timeline.

We're coming up on the hardest part of the year. The dark and cold get to the best of us. I wonder if you'd allow us to help you through this time and rediscuss your end of contract in the spring. Something just tells me that if you were to make it thru to the spring, you may well have made the changes necessary to re-sign willingly.
Worry is a misuse of imagination

She had blue skin, And so did he.
He kept it hid And so did she.
They searched for blue Their whole life through,
Then passed right by- And never knew.”

Shel Silverstein

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Elliot
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by Elliot » Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:23 pm

It just dawned on me I have not posted yet today. Don't worry. I'm keeping my promise.

Peter read thru the hyperboleandahalf site this morning. All old hat to him. Says I'm just the latest in a long string of such friends. Some much worse than I am -- so that's good news for me.

--------------------------------

In case you missed it a day or two ago, I renewed my promise to remain alive for a specific time. The "contract" now runs thru December.

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by delle » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:10 pm

Elliot wrote:It just dawned on me I have not posted yet today. Don't worry. I'm keeping my promise.

Peter read thru the hyperboleandahalf site this morning. All old hat to him. Says I'm just the latest in a long string of such friends. Some much worse than I am -- so that's good news for me.

--------------------------------

In case you missed it a day or two ago, I renewed my promise to remain alive for a specific time. The "contract" now runs thru December.

Cool.

But I was hoping more for MAY!! 8)
Worry is a misuse of imagination

She had blue skin, And so did he.
He kept it hid And so did she.
They searched for blue Their whole life through,
Then passed right by- And never knew.”

Shel Silverstein

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Elliot
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by Elliot » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:14 pm

Just my daily checking in.

Nothing is happening, except for the normal hectic life of a household with two small children. We have talked briefly about having me live here more permanently, but that would be "too much of a good thing". We'd all go nuts. So we are discussing options for my house in Clearlake; both short term and long term. I may go back there tomorrow.

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by maryanimal » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:43 pm

Too much of a good thing sounds great to me Elliot! I know young'uns can be a bit unnerving at times. But a pleasure in the overall picture. Imagine how much inspiration you may get while being in Davis! I personally love hanging with college kids! I learn a lot from the younger generation.
Sometimes I'm confused by what I think is really obvious. But what I think is really obvious obviously isn't obvious.

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by ygmir » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:54 pm

HI Elliot!!
don't forget I invited you to my birthday party.......


and, I'm sure it's in here somewhere, ( and, I can only speak for me, but, imagine I speak for others):

but,


BIG FUCKING YAY FOR PETER!!!!
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by Elliot » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:40 pm

I'll have to find and post a picture of Peter & Jerri. Yes, they are really something.
I don't let just anybody save my life. :lol:

Yes, I like being in a "college town". (UC Davis)

Not much of a college-kids-atmosphere here in their house, though, since Peter is my age! :lol:
Jerri is in her 20s, but is not studying much now while they have two little ones. Of course, Peter is a teacher, so there is always some educational flavor in the air.

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by Sham » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:46 pm

Some days I feel just so magical! :D Peter (left), Jerri (right). Peter will be very busy in the next month making toys for all the good little girls and boys!
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by Elliot » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:22 pm

Yes, that's them. A SUCCESSFUL May-November marriage! And I'm so lucky as to be sitting in their living room with them, their young kids having gone to sleep for the night; we're drinking wine and talking about BM 2012.

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by ibdave » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:45 am

ygmir wrote:HI Elliot!!
don't forget I invited you to my birthday party.......


and, I'm sure it's in here somewhere, ( and, I can only speak for me, but, imagine I speak for others):

but,


BIG FUCKING YAY FOR PETER!!!!
More info on this please............. 8) 8) 8) unless the invite list is small.... very small
I was Born OK the 1st Time....

Don't bring defaultia to Burning Man, take Burning Man to defaultia...... graidawg

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by ygmir » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:51 am

ibdave wrote:
ygmir wrote:HI Elliot!!
don't forget I invited you to my birthday party.......


and, I'm sure it's in here somewhere, ( and, I can only speak for me, but, imagine I speak for others):

but,


BIG FUCKING YAY FOR PETER!!!!
More info on this please............. 8) 8) 8) unless the invite list is small.... very small

Yeah IBD, Birthday party at my Hof this coming fall..........as long as the weather holds anyway. It'll be a decompression as well.
Viking theme, sort of, since Elliot and I both make that claim. Probably others will, also.
"horned hats and much laughter" to be had.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by Elliot » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:11 am

Ygmir is playing dirty pool, trying to trick me into "a contract to remain alive" all the way to October 2012. :wink: :D

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by ibdave » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:18 am

8) 8) :mrgreen:
I was Born OK the 1st Time....

Don't bring defaultia to Burning Man, take Burning Man to defaultia...... graidawg

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by ygmir » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:28 am

how, is it dirty pool, to want to have a Viking theme party, and, want to include my favorite eplaya Viking?
We can drink too much and sing Wagner.................

[youtube][/youtube]
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by gyre » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:41 am

What was the name of the Roman, ordered to kill himself (sort of a tradition of execution by post, not suicide), cut his wrists with his friends in attendance, and would stop the bleeding as long as the conversation was interesting enough?
I can't find it online.


Elliot, I came pretty close to death yesterday, and didn't really have the best day.

You still have to persist.

It is really intolerable for you to even consider anything like this.

You must find another way.

Don't sell your life so cheaply.

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by Elliot » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:11 pm

I'm back in Clearlake. A week at P&J's house did me good.

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by theCryptofishist » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:19 pm

So, what is the plan for tonight?
The Lady with a Lamprey

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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by ygmir » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:26 pm

Elliot wrote:I'm back in Clearlake. A week at P&J's house did me good.
theCryptofishist wrote:So, what is the plan for tonight?
I'm sensing a theme.......


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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Post by Sham » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:28 pm

I think the date we're all aiming for is December 21, 2012. After that, all bets are off. :D

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