Why no option to pay by check/money order?

[lucky420]

oh for fucks' sake

I wish there was a vomit smilie

[unjonharley]

oh for fucks' sake

I wish there was a vomit smilie

OCCUPY Eplaya until they install a vomit smilie..

[Eric]

If excluding mail order means that half of that demographic are "unable" to manage computer/pre-paid access, it's still excluding a segment of Burners that previously were welcome.

a) Your "half that demographic" is a wild guess unless you have solid proof otherwise. I can create also create false data to bolster an argument if I want to, it doesn't make it any more valid of an argument. I would guess that the majority of mail orders are people who live off the grid or without credit cards, not crazy people who can't use a computer (note: I said "guess", I am speculating, not calling it a fact)

b) If someone can't figure out how to use a pre-paid for card or can't find someone to help them do so (which is as simple as calling a 1-800 number on the back of the card), they are excluding themselves. Like Trilobyte said- if you choose not to go through an open door it's not the fault of the people already inside.

c) I've never had a credit card, only a debit, by choice and I'm making the adjustments I need to so this will work for me. If someone is unable to make those adjustments just to get their ticket, then I'm not sure they're the best person to be on the playa. You might say that's harsh, I call it realistic. This is, after all, just a vacation.

[BBadger]

If excluding mail order means that half of that demographic are "unable" to manage computer/pre-paid access, it's still excluding a segment of Burners that previously were welcome.
Given the two week period of registration, and the additional time to process the lottery, there is no excuse for not allowing mail order entries. *Inclusion*

How do radically excluded people-without-cars get to Burning Man? Surely that's a higher bar to reach than owning a credit card and having internet access these days.

There are many "left behind" demographics. There are people who don't own cars. There are people without much money. There are people who don't have internet access and don't know how to use it. People without phones. People without home addresses. People without camping gear.

People get left behind. It's the fact of life.

But many people also adapt. If Burning Man only sold stuff via Facebook I would be "left behind" because I refuse to use that service. Still, if going to BM were important enough I'd find means despite that.

I remember talking to some old dude who wanted to do copywriting for me for web media. I ask him about his work flow and he tells me that he doesn't use computers or the internet, and refused to learn. My jaw dropped and I asked: "How am I supposed to copy your writing to the website I'm making?" "Well, I expect you'd pay someone to transcribe it." I told him that this would be an unworkable situation and that I didn't see any future business involving him. It was his refusal to adapt that was the nail in the coffin.

oh for fucks' sake

I wish there was a vomit smilie

barf.gif

[theCryptofishist]

Yeah, the rangers have met those who cannot use a computer. And some of them end up as a burden to rangers or esd or the event in one way or another. I won't tell my story. In fact, there's reams I'm not saying here, as I have some conflicting values here.

[Canoe]

Like I said, using mail order for whatever reason. I gave some examples. Off the grid, be it literally or in whatever form/reason is another. Dropping mail order doesn't affect me, but it's another door closed.

The numbers are probably so small that keeping that door open would/should be easy. And particularly so with a two week entry registration and a lottery executed sometime afterward.

Just another part of the reality drifting away from original principles that occurs with large growth.
The attendance growth had required changes along the way. Closing this door appears unnecessary.

[Zhust]

How do radically excluded people-without-cars get to Burning Man? Surely that's a higher bar to reach than owning a credit card and having internet access these days.

Aw geez. I didn't know cars were required.

[BBadger]

The numbers are probably so small that keeping that door open would/should be easy. And particularly so with a two week entry registration and a lottery executed sometime afterward.

Just another part of the reality drifting away from original principles that occurs with large growth.
The attendance growth had required changes along the way. Closing this door appears unnecessary.

If it's so easy and the numbers so small, why don't you set up a service whereby people can mail-order their money and checks to you and other like-minded good Samaritans, and you can buy pre-paid cards or tickets directly in March, and go though all this trouble for them? You know, an "adopt-an-off-gridder" program?

Aw geez. I didn't know cars were required.

Thank you for proving my point that we can adapt to situations if needs be.

[Sassy Britches]

Seems to me that many people who are trying to put pressure on BMORG to make it easier than easy for every preference of people to have or not have their preferred means of payment, are forgetting another of the 10 principles - Radical Self Reliance. The only folks who are "being excluded" are those who exclude themselves by not exercising this principal.

[Elderberry]

There are some stores that will give you a discount for using cash or debit cards to avoid the transaction fee. However, unless they're going to pass on some of those savings I won't go out of my way to use alternative payment methods.

This is actually against the merchants agreement with the cc companies and if they get caught can have their merchant account cancelled. It's also not permitted for merchants to set any minimum amount to buy to use a credit card.

[BBadger]

There are some stores that will give you a discount for using cash or debit cards to avoid the transaction fee. However, unless they're going to pass on some of those savings I won't go out of my way to use alternative payment methods.

This is actually against the merchants agreement with the cc companies and if they get caught can have their merchant account cancelled. It's also not permitted for merchants to set any minimum amount to buy to use a credit card.

That depended on the contract, though I'll wager you're correct for the majority of the merchant account providers.

I use past-tense because it is now illegal, under the Durbin Amendment, for CC companies to prevent discounts for using debit cards vs. credit cards, and/or require a minimum purchase amount ($10 minimum) for using a CC. These are reasons (including the interchange fee limitations) why that $5 debit card fee was attempted.

[Rice]

How do radically excluded people-without-cars get to Burning Man? Surely that's a higher bar to reach than owning a credit card and having internet access these days.

Aw geez. I didn't know cars were required.

When I first saw what you were intending to do, I was extremely concerned for your safety. Once you explained you plan a bit further, I became less concerned.

I hope that you are able to do this for 2012! (although, having someone watch out for you is a good plan )

Perhaps we could discuss you plans/route for getting into BRC and at least make sure you experience a minimal hassle with BLM/Perimiter/Gate.

Rice

[Zhust]

Aw geez. I didn't know cars were required.

Thank you for proving my point that we can adapt to situations if needs be.

I can't argue against thoroughly flawed logic like that!