OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

[Elderberry]

I believe all the reforming that Social Security needs is 1. for the government to stop borrowing all the money from the trust fund; and 2. Tax everybody on their full salary, not just the first $110,000.00; and 3. Means test to determine benefits if 1. & 2. don't quite do the trick.

Let's see.

- Reform Social Security. This was originally conceived with the assumption that population was going to remain the same. It's time for the USA to admit that this was a stupid idea. The ideal would be individual retirement accounts, run exclusively by the government, similar to the bond system. The US government does not encourage investment in bonds right now, and seems to prefer borrowing from foreign countries. It's time to reverse that possibly dangerous trend right now. The trick to retiring the old Social Security system is that you'd have to phase it out in some manner that wouldn't cause a lot of disruption, but it would be worth it in the long run.

-.

Although I do agree with reforming SS, I disagree with a couple of points, above:

IIRC, SSI was meant, as named "Supplemental Security Income" meaning, every should plan for retirement, as best they can. Knowing, most individuals can and will do better than government, the system came about as a "supplement" for those who may not be as good at saving/planning. It was not meant to be the entire income for folks. I'd much rather see individuals, be responsible for providing for their own futures. And, yes, some will fall through the cracks.......I suppose the SSI would then be their only option. But, a huge gov. bureaucracy handling anything, is inherently inefficient, corrupt, and mishandled due to politics.

And I also seem to remember, the model based on an ever increasing work force/population, so that theoretically, there were always way more people paying in, than taking out, providing and eventual "slush fund" for times of reverse circumstances.

"Retirement" in those days, was mostly on your kids providing for you. This, was a dream, and a great one, to change that. It also depended on large corporations, providing private retirement benefits, and small and self employed business, planning on their own.

It got bastardized with "hand outs" and "entitlements", that had nothing to do with "original intent".

[ygmir]

I believe all the reforming that Social Security needs is 1. for the government to stop borrowing all the money from the trust fund; and 2. Tax everybody on their full salary, not just the first $110,000.00; and 3. Means test to determine benefits if 1. & 2. don't quite do the trick.

succinct, and accurate. I agree.
I'd add
4. delete benefits not in the original proposal. Move them to their own program/budget, if kept.

[unjonharley]

succinct, and accurate. I agree.
I'd add
4. delete benefits not in the original proposal. Move them to their own program/budget, if kept.

Right, I have been hot on this trail for years..

Short story.. I was a big wage guy.. Bout 35 years ago I had an injury that could not be recovered from.. I had to find work at a much lower pay.. I worked at the same job for the next 25 years.. In the mean time the wife had cancer that cost the house, the car and every thing else.. So when it come time to retire, I get $400 below poverty level.. With $19 in food stamps.. I make out OK. I know how to make it on my own..

What pisses me is.... The guy has millions and rakes boocoo yearly out of SS.. Also that the government can not keep there hands out of the money.. WE are paying for past wars with SS moneys.. Some was taped out for the bailouts..

AS for Wall Street failing.. I insist it was a BIG red herring.. Same go's for the Big Three.. Which dropped to two when the conditions were attached with the money..

[cowboyangel]

Christ. The only "reforming" Social Security needs is to raise the goddamn cap. End of discussion.
Republicans and their toxic errant religion of hate & punishment of the less fortunate, they prefer to call "christianity" have been at war with Social Security ever since its inception.
The word "entitlement" has come to mean something "wrong", "misguided", "wasteful" and "unsustainable"...yeah right, these are terms that more aptly apply to military no bid contracts, wasteful defense spending, oil and timber industry tax breaks and hand-outs, pharmaceutical back room deals, big bank and insurance company bail-outs, off shore tax shelters, zero tax on capital gains, derivative trading etc....those are goddamn "entitlements" if ever there was....
And don't get me going on the idiotic debate about deficit reduction. Address the fucking areas noted above for ways to cut the deficit. The republican party is a deficit. Find a way to cut that gangrenous puss chocked cancer on the body politic and that would be a great deficit reducer.

[unjonharley]

Christ. The only "reforming" Social Security needs is to raise the goddamn cap. End of discussion.
Republicans and their toxic errant religion of hate & punishment of the less fortunate, they prefer to call "christianity" have been at war with Social Security ever since its inception.
The word "entitlement" has come to mean something "wrong", "misguided", "wasteful" and "unsustainable"...yeah right, these are terms that more aptly apply to military no bid contracts, wasteful defense spending, oil and timber industry tax breaks and hand-outs, pharmaceutical back room deals, big bank and insurance company bail-outs, off shore tax shelters, zero tax on capital gains, derivative trading etc....those are goddamn "entitlements" if ever there was....
And don't get me going on the idiotic debate about deficit reduction. Address the fucking areas noted above for ways to cut the deficit. The republican party is a deficit. Find a way to cut that gangrenous puss chocked cancer on the body politic and that would be a great deficit reducer.

Damn!! You mean to say.. You not voting for "Good Old Boy" Newt

[Elderberry]

I believe all the reforming that Social Security needs is 1. for the government to stop borrowing all the money from the trust fund; and 2. Tax everybody on their full salary, not just the first $110,000.00; and 3. Means test to determine benefits if 1. & 2. don't quite do the trick.

succinct, and accurate. I agree.
I'd add
4. delete benefits not in the original proposal. Move them to their own program/budget, if kept.

I don't understand #4. What other benefits are you referring to? I didn't think there were any other benefits added to SS.
My #4 would have more to do with universal health care, which is basic social security to my way of thinking, so nobody has to experience what UJH had to go through when his wife got sick; and the ramifications it had on his retirement. That should never be allowed to happen in a country with as much wealth as the US.

[Ugly Dougly]

I'm the first one to admit that I don't know diddly squat about this. So let me ask some questions.
Is the money that I pay into the SSI (or other) fund, the same money that I get out, or is there a chance that it will have been paid out to other people before I get my hands on it?
This doesn't seem like a model I would use for personal investing. I would put a little bit of my income into my personal account year by year. The government could borrow money against this over time, as long as I got it back when I retired.
Right now, our government borrows too much money from foreign governments and corporations. Right now, I don't know if that's causing us any problems, but it could complicate things in the future. Simplest seems to be the government investing in its own people, and the people investing in their government.

[Ugly Dougly]

The word "entitlement" has come to mean something "wrong", "misguided", "wasteful" and "unsustainable"...yeah right, these are terms that more aptly apply to military no bid contracts, wasteful defense spending, oil and timber industry tax breaks and hand-outs, pharmaceutical back room deals, big bank and insurance company bail-outs, off shore tax shelters, zero tax on capital gains, derivative trading etc....those are goddamn "entitlements" if ever there was....

I'll go with you that one, Cowboy. Our fellow humans deserve respect, not contempt.

[Elderberry]

Bernie Sanders explains this extremely well. I'll see if I can find some of his YouTube clips or articles.
Social Security is totally solvent, and in fact has a HUGH surplus. It will not run out of money for at least the next 30-40 years. However, because the program was taking in so much money, the government has borrowed and spent most of that money on unfunded wars and whatever else they wanted to spend it on to make the budget deficit not look as bad as it actually was. Even after that 30-40 years, there will still be enough money to pay at least 75-80% of the promised benefit without making any changes. The reason for the shortfall is because of the imbalance of the workforce and the baby boomers that are retiring. However, the shortfall could easily be covered by removing the cap on wages, and as the balance between retires and workers is restored the program would correct itself.

All of the other bs you hear about the system being broken is propaganda by those that never liked social security and have been fighting to dismantle it ever since its inception. (the same as those that are doing everything in their power to try and dismantle the health care act.)

[unjonharley]

If you have a child born retarded.. That child collects SS from the start to the end..
If I guy offs himself.. All his kids collect SS until they are 18 or 21 if in school.
There are a few more.. Like if you retire military, Then government Then SS.

Obomma's health care only assures the health industry they will get payed no matter how much they gouge.. ie $70 for a tylonal.. His health care is next to worthless. It's also a job killer.. If you have a company with say seven people.. Then you hire the eight person.. You end up having to buy health insurance for everybody. example.. Very few of the 99% can afford $600 a month health insur

[unjonharley]

Oh!
If you spend all your adult life in prison and are released a age 65.. You will recieve full SS.. More than I get for working all my life.. Or if you come to this country at or over 65, you get the full bore of SSI....

So OCCUPY WASHINGTON AND YOUR VOTING BOOTH AND THERE MAIL BOXS.

[unjonharley]

oops

[ygmir]

The word "entitlement" has come to mean something "wrong", "misguided", "wasteful" and "unsustainable"...yeah right, these are terms that more aptly apply to military no bid contracts, wasteful defense spending, oil and timber industry tax breaks and hand-outs, pharmaceutical back room deals, big bank and insurance company bail-outs, off shore tax shelters, zero tax on capital gains, derivative trading etc....those are goddamn "entitlements" if ever there was....

I'll go with you that one, Cowboy. Our fellow humans deserve respect, not contempt.

yeah, because that's such an unbiased, fair and respectful post. I get it.........

[Elderberry]

If you have a child born retarded.. That child collects SS from the start to the end..
If I guy offs himself.. All his kids collect SS until they are 18 or 21 if in school.
There are a few more.. Like if you retire military, Then government Then SS.

Obomma's health care only assures the health industry they will get payed no matter how much they gouge.. ie $70 for a tylonal.. His health care is next to worthless. It's also a job killer.. If you have a company with say seven people.. Then you hire the eight person.. You end up having to buy health insurance for everybody. example.. Very few of the 99% can afford $600 a month health insur

The problem is not Obama's health program, he did the best he could, and it's a damn site better now than it was before.

That being said, there two main problems-- health insurance is tied to employment as a benefit. Interesting history as to how this came about, but not for here. And the second is that there needs to be a single payer system. The special interests that don't want to see either of those things happen are doing a splendid job of lobbying in congress and running a misinformation campaign to convince the electorate how terrible the idea of public health care is. I hope to live long enough to see the lobbyists defeated and everyone covered by a public health plan.

[cowboyangel]

Great JK. Medicare admin costs are about 2% compared to the health industry at about 15-20%

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... lTFK5Ke4rQ

[unjonharley]

Sorry to be so far off thread..

Just want to tell you how well government controlled health care works.

I go into the hospital and a team hooks me up to a machine.. It's about the size of two bowling ball and about as heavy.. At the same time the doctors order a home size unit that can hang around my neck.. I can go home.. BUT The order for the machine has to be approved by medacare.. Very standard in cases like mine.. The order went in at 9:00 that morning.. My nurse called them about 11:00.. The answer was.. Oh yes we are right on it, Should be in an hour.. The nurse calls every hour, gets the same answer.. I was up and dressed with my kid waiting to go home.. The nurse calls again around 3:30.. This time the answer is.. Well you know it;s Friday and most every one has skipped out early.. We see you Mon.
So I'm in the hospital for the week end for no other reason than no one could push the yes button.. Come Monday the same yawn and I'll get right on it game starts all over.. Around five in the afternoon the floor nurse throws one hell of a bitch.. Where is that machine?? The rental company had deliveryed it last Friday. It could not be released to me until medacare pushes the yes button..I heard her yelling some thing.. Within 5 min. that machine was in my room and hooked up to me.. Once I'm home I'm waiting three days for a home stay nurse to change the dressing every two days.. Medacare had come back on the second day to ask the doctor if he was sure I needed this type care. That means a 100 mile round trip for that days care.. I was not happy.. This wound was on my ass.. A 100 mile trip did not sit well with me. Also a setback in infection..

So this is how government health care in the US works..

Oh,, And that fucked up office is closed to the public.. You can not get near it.

Oh well... The SSI office has armed guards. They jump up in your face and swell up with hand on gun. Asking little dried up 90 year olds If they have any guns or knives.

[theCryptofishist]

That's not the only way that government run health care works, although it's not atypical for the particular "system" from my experience.

[cowboyangel]

http://www.documentarywire.com/sicko

Remember....Wendell Potter? His job was to undermine Moore and Sicko....well

http://www.time.com/time/politics/artic ... 93,00.html


drum roll...and there ya go sports fans! Johnny Carson music....

[Sola Gangsta]

LA eviction rumor:

http://globalrevolution.tv/

[Elderberry]

No rumor, they have 25 minutes to pack up and move out. TV cameras are all around the encampment and LAPD are preparing at an undisclosed location.

[BlackRockCityPimp]

[youtube][/youtube]

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[youtube][/youtube]

[littleflower]

Christ. The only "reforming" Social Security needs is to raise the goddamn cap. End of discussion.

uuuhhhhhh .... no.

the whole set up of SSI is that you get back what you paid into the system.,,, so the tax cap is tied to the benefits cap. take away the cap and add means testing, and guess what .... you just have another entitlement program. but this one is the absolute worst kind, because it's completely on the backs of working people and businesses... and guess what .... small businesses would be hit the hardest. how are small businesses supposed to grow if you pull another 10.4%-12.4% out of their earnings above $110,000 (or whatever it is at the moment)?

And if you're just doing the tax-the-wealthy thing, why not keep the tax where it currently is on working people and create a SS tax on investment income above $50,000 or something? at least that way you might nail more then the upper middle class.

oh, and raise the retirement age, by all means. when the system was conceived the average life span was only 65 or so, i believe. but they've already done this ... i don't get full benefits until i'm 70.

[cowboyangel]

SSI is a tax on businesses? When did that change happen?

[Elderberry]

SSI is a tax on businesses? When did that change happen?

Always was. Employers match social security and Medicare. But raising the cap won't put any small businesses out of business, nor would it prevent growth. Little miss one percent is just mindlessly ranting again, pay her no mind.

[littleflower]

SSI is a tax on businesses? When did that change happen?

Always was. Employers match social security and Medicare. But raising the cap won't put any small businesses out of business, nor would it prevent growth. Little miss one percent is just mindlessly ranting again, pay her no mind.

that the best you can do, JK?

[lemur]

occupy wallstreet is officially dead.


OCCUPY MOVEMENT 2011-2011

OH HOW LITTLE WE KNEW YOU


...

[unjonharley]

oh, and raise the retirement age, by all means. when the system was conceived the average life span was only 65 or so, i believe. but they've already done this ... i don't get full benefits until i'm 70.

The retirement age was pre retire at 62 set after wwII.. If you retired at 62 the GI's coming home could get your job.. Making the age 70 only keeps the job market full to overflow.. Shoot yourself in the foot thing..

[Ugly Dougly]

How well does the system work if you don't have health insurance at all? That must be pretty dandy.

Sorry to be so far off thread..

Just want to tell you how well government controlled health care works.

I go into the hospital and a team hooks me up to a machine.. It's about the size of two bowling ball and about as heavy.. At the same time the doctors order a home size unit that can hang around my neck.. I can go home.. BUT The order for the machine has to be approved by medacare.. Very standard in cases like mine.. The order went in at 9:00 that morning.. My nurse called them about 11:00.. The answer was.. Oh yes we are right on it, Should be in an hour.. The nurse calls every hour, gets the same answer.. I was up and dressed with my kid waiting to go home.. The nurse calls again around 3:30.. This time the answer is.. Well you know it;s Friday and most every one has skipped out early.. We see you Mon.
So I'm in the hospital for the week end for no other reason than no one could push the yes button.. Come Monday the same yawn and I'll get right on it game starts all over.. Around five in the afternoon the floor nurse throws one hell of a bitch.. Where is that machine?? The rental company had deliveryed it last Friday. It could not be released to me until medacare pushes the yes button..I heard her yelling some thing.. Within 5 min. that machine was in my room and hooked up to me.. Once I'm home I'm waiting three days for a home stay nurse to change the dressing every two days.. Medacare had come back on the second day to ask the doctor if he was sure I needed this type care. That means a 100 mile round trip for that days care.. I was not happy.. This wound was on my ass.. A 100 mile trip did not sit well with me. Also a setback in infection..

So this is how government health care in the US works..

Oh,, And that fucked up office is closed to the public.. You can not get near it.

Oh well... The SSI office has armed guards. They jump up in your face and swell up with hand on gun. Asking little dried up 90 year olds If they have any guns or knives.

[Ugly Dougly]

oh, and raise the retirement age, by all means. when the system was conceived the average life span was only 65 or so, i believe. but they've already done this ... i don't get full benefits until i'm 70.

The retirement age was pre retire at 62 set after wwII.. If you retired at 62 the GI's coming home could get your job.. Making the age 70 only keeps the job market full to overflow.. Shoot yourself in the foot thing..

I'm in favor of the 35-hour work week. I do everything I can to make that happen.

[ygmir]

oh, and raise the retirement age, by all means. when the system was conceived the average life span was only 65 or so, i believe. but they've already done this ... i don't get full benefits until i'm 70.

The retirement age was pre retire at 62 set after wwII.. If you retired at 62 the GI's coming home could get your job.. Making the age 70 only keeps the job market full to overflow.. Shoot yourself in the foot thing..

I'm in favor of the 35-hour work week. I do everything I can to make that happen.

I just figured it out, Dougly!!
you want to be French!
That explains so much.