Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

[NiciShe]

So what about the people who can afford $240 but no more and aren't awarded a ticket during the main sale? There are the fewest # of tickets at this level, and apparently you can't opt out of lower tiers, so there will very likely be people who pay $240 when they could pay more, and also people who can't pay more who get denied, who are then still banned from registering for low-income tickets. This unfairly puts pressure on the ticket buyer who does not want to utilize the low income structure but cannot afford all main sale ticket tiers, which is likely the largest population. This seems to be a severe oversight that has the potential to exclude seasoned and self-reliant burners whose wallets are simply a bit thin... I suggest that anyone who is only able to register for the lowest tier of the main sale but is denied is allowed to apply for a low-income ticket. If you make this change and have an unusual flood of low income apps this year, you know that you've excluded a lot of $240 level buyers by not allowing people to opt out of lower tiers. Just for the record, I think this whole system is a foolish and unnecessary attempt at OVERcorrection with crap-tons of flaws... but the one i mention to me at the moment seems the most serious...

[lemur]

ya pays yer moneys ya takes ya chances..


you were never guaranteed a low tier ticket in any recent years because of the huge demand..

[trilobyte]

In 2011 if you could only afford the lowest tier but no more, there were 8,000 tickets you could afford. They were sold out within hours on the first day, and with the heavy load of all those people hitting the servers at once, often times chance meant that by the time you got in those tickets were sold out even if you were one of the first few hundred to get to the page. Those who could afford more could always buy those lower tier tickets if they were available at the time they got through, and sales history shows that's exactly what they did (many viewed the lower tiers as a reward or discount for early planning).

In 2012 there will be 10,000 first tier tickets (25% more than last year), and instead of it being a fairly random chance of just those who are able to sit in front of their computers at one specific time/date, it's a random chance of those who are able to register within a 2 week window.

As for tiers, thankfully the BMOrg didn't do away with all tiers (they only reduced the number of them), otherwise people who couldn't afford more than $240 would be shut out completely.

[FIGJAM]

Pretty sure last years first tier allotment was 9,000.

[FIGJAM]

I stand corrected, but not convinced!

[chromatest]

but, whatever you buy via the new official ticket system, you will be allowed to buy tickets sold by other burners when they are put up for sale, even on the new to come 'resell our officially bought tickets here system' is put on line. right?

I'm not holding my breath for an official ticket reseller market!

[trilobyte]

Don't hold your breath, but it is coming. Expect more info sometime in the spring.

[A Jester]

Actually, by strict interpretation of what he asked and how it is written in the FAQ's, jcliffs' question has not been answered. The FAQ's state that if you purchase ticket(S) in the main sale you are not eligible to purchase tickets in the open sale. How about if you purchase a single TICKET in the main sale? With a limit of two and have only purchased one ticket, it would seem that purchasing a second ticket should be an option.

Q: If I purchase tickets through the Main Sale, can I still purchase tickets through the Open Sale or the Low Income program?
A: No, once you have purchased tickets you are ineligible to purchase tickets through the Open Sale or to apply for Low Income tickets.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, sorry to ruin it if you are, but it seems pretty clear to me.

I definitely wouldn't tell someone "it would seem that purchasing a second ticket should be an option." Not unless I really wanted to set that person up to be pissed off.

[remi]

Sorry if you already answered this somewhere, but am I right to assume when you do they main draw you will be drawing the more expensive tiers first? People don't have the option to opt out of the lower tiers, at least if you draw the more expensive tiers first, there will be 30,000 people less in the 240$ draw. That increases the odds significantly.

[Nipple]

They haven't answered it, but...

CONJECTURE

The secondary sale is all at $390, so if we're to assume the 1st and 2nd tiers are sold out, it kind of leads me to think that they'll do Tier 1's drawing, then Tier 2's drawing leaving only $390 tickets for the secondary sale.

But that's just my WAG.

[Eric]

Sorry if you already answered this somewhere, but am I right to assume when you do they main draw you will be drawing the more expensive tiers first? People don't have the option to opt out of the lower tiers, at least if you draw the more expensive tiers first, there will be 30,000 people less in the 240$ draw. That increases the odds significantly.

The draw will be in the order of lowest-middle-highest tiers (lowest first, highest last). Just like it would be if it was first-come/ first-served like in the past.

The lower tiers haven't been for the poorer amongst us for years- they've gone to the people who get logged on the fastest (and have a bit of luck). Idealizing them into "Golden Tickets for the Poor" doesn't change that fact. People who've only been able to pay the lowest tier have had less options for ages (but, as one of those people, there are still ways to make it happen)

[A Jester]

....The lower tiers haven't been for the poorer amongst us for years- they've gone to the people who get logged on the fastest (and have a bit of luck). .....

I'd suggest that having an above average internet connection and computer would be an asset in getting logged on the fastest. That would indicate the old system was at least partially biased toward the well off.

IMO it's a toss up to ponder the amount of time required. Some could argue that the unemployed obviously have more free time. I think that most of the jobs that allow you the time to spend on the computer tend to be white collar and higher paying. I work construction, there's no way I could sit on a computer for hours without taking the day off. (don't ask me how I can be posting here now)

At least the new system does allow all the people who can only afford a $240 ticket a chance to get one. If you worked a normal job and had to get internet access from the library (because someone who can't afford the $60 difference in ticket tiers can't afford $30+ a month in high speed internet service) you stood a close to zero percent chance of getting a T1 ticket.



Now you stand about an 18% chance. HOOORAAAY for you!

[remi]

I'd suggest that having an above average internet connection and computer would be an asset in getting logged on the fastest. That would indicate the old system was at least partially biased toward the well off.

I don't know too many people who are struggling to make ends meat that have a kickass computer & excellent internet connection. (Sorry, if I new computer term I would use them.. but, sadly.. i don't.. but I'll give it a try.) A kick ass computer with 15 core proccessor, and 2.2 jigga watts that only me, and the doc can produce, somthing about hertz... and 17 rams... hemi. Ya... computer lingo isn't my thing.

[theCryptofishist]

I'd suggest that having an above average internet connection and computer would be an asset in getting logged on the fastest. That would indicate the old system was at least partially biased toward the well off.

I don't know too many people who are struggling to make ends meat that have a kickass computer & excellent internet connection. (Sorry, if I new computer term I would use them.. but, sadly.. i don't.. but I'll give it a try.) A kick ass computer with 15 core proccessor, and 2.2 jigga watts that only me, and the doc can produce, somthing about hertz... and 17 rams... hemi. Ya... computer lingo isn't my thing.

Throw in some "quantum" and some "reciprocal" and some "giga-" and some "ionic bath" and you're just made the emperor some new clothes. I suggest you leave town quickly afterwards.

[A Jester]

I'd suggest that having an above average internet connection and computer would be an asset in getting logged on the fastest. That would indicate the old system was at least partially biased toward the well off.

I don't know too many people who are struggling to make ends meat that have a kickass computer & excellent internet connection. (Sorry, if I new computer term I would use them.. but, sadly.. i don't.. but I'll give it a try.) A kick ass computer with 15 core proccessor, and 2.2 jigga watts that only me, and the doc can produce, somthing about hertz... and 17 rams... hemi. Ya... computer lingo isn't my thing.

Correct (well the bolded part). That's why I think the new system is "fairer" in that it gives people struggling to make ends meet a better chance at getting lower tier tickets.

I like the idea of 17 rams. I'm not sure how many rams in a horsepower, but I feel like that computer would go really fast.

[remi]

Anyone else's heart start pumping a little faster when they seen the "Official I've been awarded a ticket thread"??? First thing I do is double check my email and my credit card balance... They must be getting close to scrubbing the list of registrants. I didn't want to post in that thread because it said to only post in there if you have a ticket, or to congratulate ppl that have tickets. I'm not doing either.

[Reddick]

Chiming in with my 2 cents.
Many people have brought up similar questions inherent in the 3-tier system, and they characterize my concerns as well. I will limit this comment to the idea that there are Burners who choose the higher priced tiers with the idea that "I can afford this, so I will not even try to get a lower priced ticket; thereby increasing the chances that someone less able to afford it gets a better chance".

The common reaction to this thought runs along the lines of "in the past, the lower priced tix all went to those lucky enough to get in early, regardless of their ability to pay". This reaction is totally contrary to the suggested procedure under the old system. My very first Burn, I logged on to buy my tix, and even though there were still some tier 2 tix available, I bought the tier 3 that I had budgeted because I thought that was the way the "honor system" was supposed to work. In later years, I didn't even try to log in the first day, since I was pretty sure there would be tickets available at the price I was willing to pay after the first-day feeding frenzy died down. It seems to me that this new lottery system can be run in such a way as to maximize the chances for lower income people to get in on the lower tiered tix by actually allowing people to opt out of the lower tiers, or by filling the upper tiers first. I may be a Pollyanna here, but I think quite a few Burners who know they can afford the higher priced tix would rather not be awarded a lower priced ticket, if it meant that someone else would be excluded.

To insist that this new system is just as (if not more) equitable as the old system, vis-a-vis getting in on the lower tiers, kind of puts a kick in the side of those of us who actually believed in the old system, and actually bought the tickets we could afford. It would seem to me that the new system could be tweeked to make it actually more equitable, and not just so much lip-service.

It may be worth looking at it for next year with a more optimistic eye for what Burners will and will not do. But this is the system for this year, and so I have budgeted my $408 (top-tier $ + 12.00 handling + $6 vendor fees), will register in the Main Sale at all levels, and take my chances with the rest of you. If I am lucky enough to get a lower tier ticket, I guess I will have that much less to save up between Feb and Aug. Or maybe you will see me on the open trading site looking to make a swap with someone who had to pay more than they had planned.

[trilobyte]

Unfortunately, Reddick, the old system did not work. The overwhelming majority of people chose to purchase the lowest pricing tier available to them at the time of purchase. Which meant that, despite the best of intentions, those of us who chose to pay a higher price at one point or another (I was in a position to be able to do that one year, and felt pretty good about doing it at the time) were just paying for someone else's early purchase discount.

[Elderberry]

I still feel that there was nothing wrong with the original system, it was the implementation (I.e. the company they chose for implementation) that was the problem. Perfect example of throwing the baby out with the bath water. But things are what they are. No sense in crying over spilt milk.

[trilobyte]

I've been to too many high demand ticketed events to share your opinion (btw, even Ticketmaster & LiveNation have a hard time keeping up with on-sale demand once you get past demand of 10K transactions in a day). Once a first come, first serve event sells out the next time around it sells considerably faster, plus it starts to attract the attention of the professionals. And those guys have great tools available to them.

[remi]

I've been to too many high demand ticketed events to share your opinion (btw, even Ticketmaster & LiveNation have a hard time keeping up with on-sale demand once you get past demand of 10K transactions in a day). Once a first come, first serve event sells out the next time around it sells considerably faster, plus it starts to attract the attention of the professionals. And those guys have great tools available to them.

Amen brother.

[5280MeV]

I still fail to see how the new system is functionally any different than the old system for the buyer, besides being more convenient.

I don't see much of a difference between being ready to buy a ticket on January 9th, and being ready to buy a ticket on January 22nd. Everyone who is ready in January is pretty much ready any time in January.

If more than 40,000 people are ready in January, then either system becomes a lottery. Period. If demand exceeds supply on day one then tickets will be distributed by some chaotic or random system mostly or totally out of the control of the buyer.

Under the old system, we would all have to take a day off from work to stand by the computer and hit the browser refresh button over and over until the right second arrives. Then whoever is lucky actually gets through the system without some network hangup and gets a ticket.

Under the new system everyone can just relax and sign in at some convenient time. Whoever is lucky gets their number pulled first.

I cannot see any point to renting tons of cloud servers and setting up the hosting infrastructure to deal with this mad dash just so people can be inconvenienced in order to have the illusion of some control over their ticketing fate. All it does is promote misery and drive up ticket processing costs.

The ticket "lottery" is just a scapegoat for the real problem here: SCARCITY. This is what people should be figuring out how to deal with over the next few years.

Assuming scarcity increases, there are only two options:

1) Distribute limited tickets by random chance.

2) Distribute limited tickets by some system of "merit".

If you choose (2), then you have permanently ruined any notion of "radical inclusion". Now there is a "club" that one has to gain entry into in order to be "worthy" of being on the playa.

I see only one possibility.

[Just_Joe]

Unfortunately, Reddick, the old system did not work. The overwhelming majority of people chose to purchase the lowest pricing tier available to them at the time of purchase. Which meant that, despite the best of intentions, those of us who chose to pay a higher price at one point or another (I was in a position to be able to do that one year, and felt pretty good about doing it at the time) were just paying for someone else's early purchase discount.

Yes. Agree. The old system did not work. Unfortunately, the new system (which DOES have some goodness in regards to the ticket selling issue) has grandfathered Tier ticketing, which does not fit well with the lottery concept and further complicates the entire purchase "experience".
As presented, is there anything positive about the multi-tier priced ticket purchase process?

I just hope the airlines don't take a cue from this and start a "three drawing, name your price" lottery for normally sold out holiday flights.

[theCryptofishist]

As presented, is there anything positive about the multi-tier priced ticket purchase process?

Yes, in that there are lower priced tickets--even more than last year. So people who cannot pay $390 and don't really qualify for low-income have a decent chance at a ticket they can afford. Tiers are not perfect, neither is a flat rate. The llc chose what made sense to them based on the criteria they valued.

[trilobyte]

I don't know, in my own experience there have been years when I could not have afforded even a mid-priced ticket (even the lowest price was something of a stretch, I'm lucky to have been able to get it). Reading the boards over the last couple months, it seems like there are plenty of people who are in that position today - I like that they still have some chance to be able to participate.

[Savannah]

As presented, is there anything positive about the multi-tier priced ticket purchase process?

I've got a good friend who might enter the lottery at the $240 tier for herself and her mate, but no other levels. They've taken on some new responsibilities & can't afford the $390 tier x 2 tickets, which would be $300 more (for two people). Tiers are more inclusive, and soften the blow (of all this change), and makes it easier for her to participate at the level she can afford even if her chances are less, without pushing her into the scholarship tickets--which isn't necessary, and would be a burden on those who need scholarships.

If it's ultimately determined that it's better to make all the tickets one price, I'm sure this can be done, down the road, but in the meantime, a lot of changes have already been made, and the tiers seem to allow participation for people to whom $100-150 (esp. times 2) is particularly important. Those folks do exist! Some of them have all their gear and are ready to go. They just need a little break, you know?

This is sort of how I view the tiers, in my own head:

Getting a ticket @ $240 = super happy
Getting a ticket @ $320 = still super happy
Getting a ticket @ $390 = at least I got a #$% ticket! Wait a minute--so I'm super happy again. Holy cow, I'm glad I'm opted into all the tiers. It's only $30 more than last year, and only ~$45 more than the oft-quoted "let's everyone pay the same price" average.

[Just_Joe]

Trilo, Fishy, Savanna-
A. I love you guys.
B. Points(s) taken- people with $240 still get a chance.
C. I hope Savanna's friend gets to go.

My understanding that the Tier system was originally put into place not to make the event more inclusive, but because it stimulated early sales, affording the BORG with some cash to get the ball rolling.
Some people opted to pay a higher price because they were trying to make it more inclusive. I agree with Trilo- while an admirable attempt, I don't think it got many cheaper tix in the hands of people who could really use them.

So... If the "average" ticket price ends up being $345 and the four of us wind up with $390 tickets, are we OK with overpaying to subsidize the Tier1 people? Keeping in mind that $240 winners are not just people without the funds, but people like us, and to a larger degree people of means with multiple credit cards, and to an even larger degree, scalpers(who are going to be slamming the $210 level)? That extra $45 means a lot- If I'm going to overpay, I'd feel better if I knew it wasn't just going into a scalpers pocket.
-or the other side of the coin-
If I score a $240 ticket while being able to afford $390, butthead that I am, I'm still going to feel a twinge of guilt when waving bye to my wife who can't go because she was denied a $240 tik (all that she could afford)

[Savannah]

So... If the "average" ticket price ends up being $345 and the four of us wind up with $390 tickets, are we OK with overpaying to subsidize the Tier1 people? Keeping in mind that $240 winners are not just people without the funds, but people like us, and to a larger degree people of means with multiple credit cards, and to an even larger degree, scalpers(who are going to be slamming the $210 level)? That extra $45 means a lot- If I'm going to overpay, I'd feel better if I knew it wasn't just going into a scalpers pocket.

If you declare on an online form that you're willing to pay $390 for a ticket, own that. It's not "overpaying" if you indicate that you are willing to pay it. It is merely the highest price, and of course it often stings to pay the high price. You might hope that you don't end up paying $390, & that's quite understandable. But it's not an overpayment. It is a price increase from last year, and no one who selects it as an option--and then receives it--should say "How could this have happened?"

Scalpers will have difficulty selling tickets until after June 1, which is when the physical tickets will ship (as a purposeful anti-scalper measure). Would you pay 1) some shady stranger in March 2) more than face value 3) for a June delivery? I wouldn't. Neither will most other people.

If I score a $240 ticket while being able to afford $390, butthead that I am, I'm still going to feel a twinge of guilt when waving bye to my wife who can't go because she was denied a $240 tik (all that she could afford)

Order 2 tickets if you have room on your card. That way, your wife would seem to be the recipient of your second ticket, unless you've got it earmarked for someone else? If you order 2 tickets, and are selected, you will get 2 tickets, not partial fulfillment.

[Just_Joe]

unless you've got it earmarked for someone else?

um.... hi Savannah....um.... I was... um ... wondering....um.....if you're not doing anything else in early September... aw shucks, nevermind

[Savannah]

Hehe.