OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

[ygmir]

I'm not rationalizing. 30 tons is a lot of anything.
It's a political situation, people exaggerate!
Here is a LA Times article. True, 1400 police, 1000 protestors. 200 arrested. That's still sixty pounds per protestor.
Ang Ygmir, buddy, I am not "you people" - I am Ugly Dougly.

Oh Dougly........I purposely didn't use "you people"......and "you guys" was aimed at this thread.
I'd not say 60 lbs. per. is out of line.......considering many probably came and went, but left stuff. and, especially if things got wet. Heck a backpack of camping gear has got to weigh pretty close to that.

and yes, you see my point.........people do exaggerate.....both directions.

if we could get off the hyperbole, and discuss with open minds and respect, we'd get so much further. It just seems some, are unwilling or too myopic, to see anything as valid but what they think.

[Bob]

80 000 plus to repair OPDX parks.. Joe citizen (99%) will be picking up the tab..
The pimps, whores, dug dealers, street bums and general dead beats that did the damage will just fade into the dark shadows..
THere next big plan.. To occupy another well kept park and destroy it this week end..

But don't they leave the parks smelling like flowers?

[FIGJAM]

My thought was "when you get run out of a park, you don't get the chance to pack ur shit."

Some would have left stuff anyway, but some of it would'nt have been there for the city to have to clean up.

[Elderberry]

Not commenting on the details of that story, I frankly didn't read it, and if the issue is the table on private property, I don't have any objection to that.

However, my reaction was caused because of my knowledge of legitimate attempts at voter suppression that I know have happened, like trying to pass laws that make college students intelligible to vote, require picture ID's issued by the state (this in states wher they consider a gun license as proper identification), trying to pass laws that make renters I eligible to vote, gerrymandering, etc. and almost every instance these things all are happening in states that have Republican Governors, and all under the guise of preventing voter fraud.

I say "under the guise" of voter fraud because the incidents of voter fraud is almost nonexistent and the small amount of fraud that may happen in no way justifies the actions required by the new or proposed laws, other than to prevent Democrats from voting.

If that sounds partisan, too bad, it's the truth, check it out for yourself if you don't believe me.

I used to scoff at people talking about voter suppression, but with how blatant it has become, I am certainly singing a different tune now. And not to be partisan, but guess which party are the most agregious practitioners.

This is why voting no longer works. When you try to get voters registered the police will threaten to arrest you for having a table. We all know how dangerous tables are in California. One person is San Diego was already arrested for a table violation. This time the police just watched for awhile. Tax dollars well spent.

So, it seems the issue, was because it was private property, and the table being there?
The police state it's ok to register people, but, not set up a table.
Why, would not private property rights, count?
Why couldn't they have moved the table to the public area, where it'd be ok?
Sort of like someone setting up, on your front lawn, to me. Yeah, do it on the public sidewalk, curb, whatever. But, if it's my lawn, I should have the right to say, I don't want a table, etc, set up there.

Folks seem to have no respect for private property. Like the owner, or not, your land should still be under your control. And, if not for some, then, not for all.....



Don't I recall many dem voters being intimidated in Chicago and other places? Mostly urban?
Wasn't there some thing, about busing illegal voters into areas, and registering them near the polling places, with instructions, and pay, when Bob Dournan (sp?) lost Orange county way back when?
Something, somewhere, about farm workers, being registered dem. and told how to vote, and required to do same?

I'd submit, as with most tawdry acts of the sort, it's not one sided.........

[unjonharley]

My BM camp was 12 00 pound across the scale.. If I had left my shelter, tent. lap topfood, extra coat and thing like that.. easy 100 pounds..

PDX had hauled 7 dumpsters before the eviction..

[Elderberry]

My thought was "when you get run out of a park, you don't get the chance to pack ur shit."

Some would have left stuff anyway, but some of it would'nt have been there for the city to have to clean up.

My thought exactly. Not to mention, the press was also run out of the area after the first peaceful part of the eviction. I posted some very disappointing news stories about this on my Facebook page. I was really hoping that Los Angeles would have kept everything transparent and peaceful. Unfortunately this turned out to not be the case.

And I believe the number of people was around 1,000 give or take, and the numbers might have swelled some from supporters that didn't camp there but showed up in solidarity for the eviction.

[Nipple]

This is why voting no longer works. When you try to get voters registered the police will threaten to arrest you for having a table. We all know how dangerous tables are in California. One person is San Diego was already arrested for a table violation. This time the police just watched for awhile. Tax dollars well spent.

I... don't understand. They were told that they were allowed to register voters on the private property. They just weren't allowed to use a table. Even that seems a little weird to me. Can I set up a table on your lawn and talk about my feelings and views? You'd be totally within your right to tell me, "take it walkin' friend." In this scenario, they're WELCOME to be there, just not to set up a table.

That breaks the system of representative government?

I guess I see it more important to get voters into the system and start flexing the muscle of the electorate. Certainly I see it more important than using a table.

I will buy them clipboards. I am 100% serious. I will send them $100 USD, THIS MORNING to register voters using clipboards instead of tables. (REALLY. I AM REALLY SERIOUS. You put me in contact with them, I will furnish you my phone number.)

Am I missing the point, or are they? Or is it all a brigand's game where what they really want to do is get arrested?

[Ugly Dougly]

I'm not rationalizing. 30 tons is a lot of anything.
It's a political situation, people exaggerate!
Here is a LA Times article. True, 1400 police, 1000 protestors. 200 arrested. That's still sixty pounds per protestor.
Ang Ygmir, buddy, I am not "you people" - I am Ugly Dougly.

Here's an article.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... -lapd.html

[Ugly Dougly]

Ah, thirty tons. They were referring to the Trojan Horse that the occupiers left behind. I get it now.

[youtube][/youtube]

[Sola Gangsta]

This is why voting no longer works. When you try to get voters registered the police will threaten to arrest you for having a table. We all know how dangerous tables are in California. One person is San Diego was already arrested for a table violation. This time the police just watched for awhile. Tax dollars well spent.

I... don't understand. They were told that they were allowed to register voters on the private property. They just weren't allowed to use a table. Even that seems a little weird to me. Can I set up a table on your lawn and talk about my feelings and views? You'd be totally within your right to tell me, "take it walkin' friend." In this scenario, they're WELCOME to be there, just not to set up a table.

That breaks the system of representative government?

I guess I see it more important to get voters into the system and start flexing the muscle of the electorate. Certainly I see it more important than using a table.

I will buy them clipboards. I am 100% serious. I will send them $100 USD, THIS MORNING to register voters using clipboards instead of tables. (REALLY. I AM REALLY SERIOUS. You put me in contact with them, I will furnish you my phone number.)

Am I missing the point, or are they? Or is it all a brigand's game where what they really want to do is get arrested?

Anybody who has ever run a trade show will tell you that the tables do far better than those running around with clipboards. Authorities can't legally come out against voter registration because that would be against the law, so they just try to make it as inconvenient as possible knowing that by eliminating tables, you decrease voter registration and turnout (which statistics shows works in favor of republicans every time).

[Sola Gangsta]

It's also the same way with "free speech zones" which implies that there are zones which don't allow free speech. This is unconstitutional.

[Nipple]

Anybody who has ever run a trade show will tell you that the tables do far better than those running around with clipboards. Authorities can't legally come out against voter registration because that would be against the law, so they just try to make it as inconvenient as possible knowing that by eliminating tables, you decrease voter registration and turnout (which statistics shows works in favor of republicans every time).

Anyone who has ever run a trade show will tell you that they had to rent a space for it.

[Sola Gangsta]

Anybody who has ever run a trade show will tell you that the tables do far better than those running around with clipboards. Authorities can't legally come out against voter registration because that would be against the law, so they just try to make it as inconvenient as possible knowing that by eliminating tables, you decrease voter registration and turnout (which statistics shows works in favor of republicans every time).

Anyone who has ever run a trade show will tell you that they had to rent a space for it.

Your point?

[Nipple]

My point is if they showed up and started having a trade show there, they'd be asked to leave because of their tables.

It's private property, and if the owners or management don't want them there, they can pack up their shit and take it walking.

(NOW, I have huge concerns about the eroding of the commons and the vanishing public spaces... but that is ANOTHER argument.)

So wait... it's unconstitutional to not let them set up their table... what about their voter registration bus? Can they set that up? Can we just have a giant free-for-all where we paint VOTER REGISTRATION on random things and plunk them down.

It's private property. It belongs to David Allen Private. The law allows people to canvas there on foot. They KNEW that a guy was arrested there for having a table... they're just trying to force and issue, and not trying to register voters at all.

[Sola Gangsta]

My point is if they showed up and started having a trade show there, they'd be asked to leave because of their tables.
It's private property, and if the owners or management don't want them there, they can pack up their shit and take it walking.
(NOW, I have huge concerns about the eroding of the commons and the vanishing public spaces... but that is ANOTHER argument.)
So wait... it's unconstitutional to not let them set up their table... what about their voter registration bus? Can they set that up? Can we just have a giant free-for-all where we paint VOTER REGISTRATION on random things and plunk them down.
It's private property. It belongs to David Allen Private. The law allows people to canvas there on foot. They KNEW that a guy was arrested there for having a table... they're just trying to force and issue, and not trying to register voters at all.

Then it would seem to me that the whole issue could be solved by moving it to public property.

[Nipple]

I agree. Or find private property that belongs to a sympathetic person.

[Sola Gangsta]

Yes. It is unconstitutional to set up a "free speech zone" in public areas which implies that other public areas are not free speech zones. If the property is private, then the owner has rights as to what goes on there.

[Elderberry]

I'm not rationalizing. 30 tons is a lot of anything.
It's a political situation, people exaggerate!
Here is a LA Times article. True, 1400 police, 1000 protestors. 200 arrested. That's still sixty pounds per protestor.
Ang Ygmir, buddy, I am not "you people" - I am Ugly Dougly.

Here's an article.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... -lapd.html

This article paints a slightly different picture.
http://www.occupylosangeles.org/?q=node%2F2445

[lemur]

I tweeted continually from 9pm until 5.30am, yet I have seven hours of tweets missing from my twitter feed.

oh the horror...

[Nipple]

History has told us time and time again... the winner gets to write the tweets.

[Ugly Dougly]

My point is if they showed up and started having a trade show there, they'd be asked to leave because of their tables.
It's private property, and if the owners or management don't want them there, they can pack up their shit and take it walking.
(NOW, I have huge concerns about the eroding of the commons and the vanishing public spaces... but that is ANOTHER argument.)
So wait... it's unconstitutional to not let them set up their table... what about their voter registration bus? Can they set that up? Can we just have a giant free-for-all where we paint VOTER REGISTRATION on random things and plunk them down.
It's private property. It belongs to David Allen Private. The law allows people to canvas there on foot. They KNEW that a guy was arrested there for having a table... they're just trying to force and issue, and not trying to register voters at all.

Then it would seem to me that the whole issue could be solved by moving it to public property.

Thought it was at Civic Center Plaze in SD.

[unjonharley]

The clipboard dim wits have became so annoying, blocking entrance and exits.
Some store have to make distance rule or ban them all together.
The state of Or. has ballot initiatives... I will always stop by a table to add my name if I wish to.. But get the fuck out of my face when I want to go to my car and go home..

[Nipple]

The area they were is privately owned. (Which is ironic, considering the name.)

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2011/nov/30/oc ... over-vote/

Her people's mic speech kind of feels more like it was about getting arrested. - Reading is hard. Ignore that.

[Ugly Dougly]

if we could get off the hyperbole, and discuss with open minds and respect, we'd get so much further. It just seems some, are unwilling or too myopic, to see anything as valid but what they think.

Kudos if not actually amen to that!
A lot of the hyperbole is inspired by the press (I once worked in that field) and I think it's healthy to question what's reported.

[Ugly Dougly]

The area they were is privately owned. (Which is ironic, considering the name.)

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2011/nov/30/oc ... over-vote/

Her people's mic speech kind of feels more like it was about getting arrested. - Reading is hard. Ignore that.

It's a common tactic to occupy a private "park" like Zuccotti. They were intending to force the issue I think.

[Sola Gangsta]

http://www.businessinsider.com/iceland- ... z1fK4q3BiO

[Sola Gangsta]

[youtube][/youtube]

[unjonharley]

While all the bickering has gone on on Eplaya.. You failed to notice..

OCCUPY WALL STREET IS "SO" YESTERDAY

[Elderberry]

While all the bickering has gone on on Eplaya.. You failed to notice..

OCCUPY WALL STREET IS "SO" YESTERDAY

Yup, so yesterday, today, tomorrow and beyond!

[Elderberry]

http://www.businessinsider.com/iceland- ... z1fK4q3BiO

Score one for the good guys.