OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by lemur » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:16 pm

A state? What is that? Well! open now your ears to me, for now I will speak to you about the death of peoples.

State is the name of the coldest of all cold monsters. Coldly it lies; and this lie slips from its mouth: "I, the state, am the people."

It is a lie! It was creators who created peoples, and hung a faith and a love over them: thus they served life.

The state lies in all the tongues of good and evil; and whatever it says it lies; and whatever it has it has stolen.

Everything in it is false; it bites with stolen teeth, and bites often. It is false down to its bowels.

See how it entices them to it, the all-too-many! How it swallows and chews and rechews them!

"On earth there is nothing greater than I: I am the governing hand of God."- thus roars the monster.

Ah! even in your ears, you great souls, it whispers its gloomy lies! Ah! it finds out the rich hearts which willingly squander themselves!

Yes, it finds you too, you conquerors of the old God! You became weary of conflict, and now your weariness serves the new idol!

It would set up heroes and honorable ones around it, the new idol! Gladly it basks in the sunshine of good consciences,- the cold monster!

It will give everything to you, if you worship it, the new idol: thus it buys the lustre of your virtue, and the glance of your proud eyes.

The state, I call it, where all drink poison, the good and the bad: the state, where all lose themselves, the good and the bad: the state, where the slow suicide of all- is called "life."

Behold the superfluous! They are always sick; they vomit their bile and call it a newspaper. They devour each other and cannot even digest themselves.

Behold the superfluous! They acquire wealth and become the poorer for it. They seek power, and the lever of power, much money- these impotent ones!

See them clamber, these nimble apes! They clamber over one another, and thus pull each other into the mud and the abyss.

They all strive for the throne: this is their madness- as if happiness sat on the throne! Often filth sits on the throne.- and often also the throne on filth.

Madmen they all seem to me, and clambering apes, and too eager. Foul smells their idol to me, the cold monster: foul they all smell to me, these idolaters.

My brothers, will you suffocate in the fumes of their maws and appetites! Better to break the windows and jump into the open air!

Escape from their foul stench! Escape from the idolatry of the superfluous!

A free life is yet possible for great souls. He who possesses little is that much less possessed: blessed be a little poverty!

There, where the state ends- there only begins the man who is not superfluous: there begins the song of the necessary, the single and irreplaceable melody.

There, where the state ends- look there, my brothers! Do you not see it?

In Jesus name, Amen.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:32 pm

Some more info on how those that were arrested are being treated in lovely Los Angeles http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/01/409351 ... vists.html
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Ugly Dougly » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:40 pm

jkisha wrote:
unjonharley wrote:While all the bickering has gone on on Eplaya.. You failed to notice..

OCCUPY WALL STREET IS "SO" YESTERDAY
Yup, so yesterday, today, tomorrow and beyond!
Hey! Unjon said it was OVER, or weren't you listening???

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Sola Gangsta » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:03 pm

unjonharley wrote:While all the bickering has gone on on Eplaya.. You failed to notice..
OCCUPY WALL STREET IS "SO" YESTERDAY
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Sola Gangsta » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:39 pm

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Sola Gangsta » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:56 pm

It will be interesting to see what happens when austerity hits home:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/world ... .html?_r=1
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by cowboyangel » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:26 pm

The beginning of the end of US banking fraud has begun in of all places, the beacon of America, my home state of Massachusetts!
Martha Coakley for president!


more story here: http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 27#p768727
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:36 pm

I'm going to quote from that link:
As ThinkProgress has been reporting, the slew of unnecessary voter ID laws passed by Republicans in many states this year are a transparent attempt to disenfranchise core Democratic voters, especially college students, the poor and minorities. But Republicans usually claim these laws are passed for the sake of curbing nonexistent voter fraud — it’s rare to have one admit their intention is to stop Democrats from getting to the polls.

But that’s exactly what New Hampshire Speaker William O’Brien (R) told a Tea Party crowd recently. As the new laws are already stifling students’ efforts to participate politically, O’Brien confessed that he wanted to make it more difficult for students to vote because they “vote their feelings” — i.e. vote as liberals:
A New Hampshire measure that ultimately failed earlier this year stoked Democratic concerns about the law’s true intentions. The law would have ended same-day registration and prohibited most college students from voting from their school addresses.

New Hampshire House Speaker William O’Brien, a Republican, told a tea party group that allowing people to register and vote on Election Day led to “the kids coming out of the schools and basically doing what I did when I was a kid, which is voting as a liberal. That’s what kids do — they don’t have life experience, and they just vote their feelings.”
New Hampshire’s voter ID bill failed to pass, but illegal signs nevertheless appeared on the door of a polling station in O’Brien’s own district, demanding that voters show ID before they could vote.
Under many state’s voter ID laws, student IDs and even government-issued veterans identification cards are unacceptable for use at polling stations.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:46 pm

Read and remember these ten talking points. Then watch how they start to be incorporated into the news by Republicans to try and frame public opinion against OWS.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/repu ... 07949.html

And remember, you heard it here first.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:48 pm

You know, I'm not an emotional guy, unless you count anger, but it actually makes my eyes tear up to watch the interviews with Scott Olsen. What a representative not only for the movement, but for the country. Marine, two terms in Iraq, has a job, articulate, a patriot and believes in the cause. He's definitely one of my heroes, maybe my only hero these days. I hope he has a full recovery from his injuries.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by cowboyangel » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:31 pm

I agree John and please let's not forget Bradley Manning either, rotting away in jail because he exposed US combat atrocities on innocent Iraqi civilians and divulged that information to the worldwide press.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by ygmir » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:02 pm

I have mixed feelings about the "student vote" thing..........
I understand, it's not just a right, it's our patriotic duty to vote.
But, I see college folks, being on campus for usually 4 years ish..........and voting to make changes in these communities, that, most likely, they'll leave upon graduation.
They are not from there, may well not understand local stuff, but yet can heavily influence things and then be gone anyway.....and, don't be so naive, to not also know, at times, those kids will vote a certain way, (organized) just to "stir it up" for the locals..........Or make some sort of "statement", that they don't have to live with, or under, anyway.

What's wrong, with them voting in their "home" district, until they graduate? If the graduate, and stay in that community, then it'd make more sense to vote there, since obviously, they're working and living there, and usally, for a longer term.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:10 pm

ygmir wrote:I have mixed feelings about the "student vote" thing..........
I understand, it's not just a right, it's our patriotic duty to vote.
But, I see college folks, being on campus for usually 4 years ish..........and voting to make changes in these communities, that, most likely, they'll leave upon graduation.
They are not from there, may well not understand local stuff, but yet can heavily influence things and then be gone anyway.....and, don't be so naive, to not also know, at times, those kids will vote a certain way, (organized) just to "stir it up" for the locals..........Or make some sort of "statement", that they don't have to live with, or under, anyway.

What's wrong, with them voting in their "home" district, until they graduate? If the graduate, and stay in that community, then it'd make more sense to vote there, since obviously, they're working and living there, and usally, for a longer term.
This isn't about them voting on local issues, but even if it was, do those communities expect to have their cake and eat it too? They benefit and in many cases subsist on the kids living and going to school in their district. Why shouldnt they then have a voice?
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:12 pm

cowboyangel wrote:I agree John and please let's not forget Bradley Manning either, rotting away in jail because he exposed US combat atrocities on innocent Iraqi civilians and divulged that information to the worldwide press.
Yup. He's pretty much a forgotten scape goat now.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by ygmir » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:18 pm

jkisha wrote: This isn't about them voting on local issues, but even if it was, do those communities expect to have their cake and eat it too? They benefit and in many cases subsist on the kids living and going to school in their district. Why shouldnt they then have a voice?

well, yeah, but you can't just register to vote on a national level...........

and, see, that's my dilemma. I understand, what you say about the benefits of the colleges in the towns. But, I've also seen how, the college vote, can at times out gun the locals in the smaller college towns. And, they'll vote things that long term, are disasterous or whatever, but, because they don't or won't live there and deal with it for the long term, they vote to make "statements" or "feel good" stuff, or whatever......the kids are not "property tax" payers in those counties, but, vote on things the property taxes are used for.........

And, why can't students, register absentee, and vote in their home towns, from where they are, anyway?
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:25 pm

I have no problem with absentee voting. I do that myself and my polling place is less than a block away. That said, I really don't feel comfortable with your argument--especially as it has been used to try and suppress voters in cities where they actually live, because they are "only" renters. How long does a person have to reside in a place before they are considered actual residents? If I move a month before the election would I not be permitted to vote at my new location? And if I only rent, should that disqualify me from being able to vote?
ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote: This isn't about them voting on local issues, but even if it was, do those communities expect to have their cake and eat it too? They benefit and in many cases subsist on the kids living and going to school in their district. Why shouldnt they then have a voice?

well, yeah, but you can't just register to vote on a national level...........

and, see, that's my dilemma. I understand, what you say about the benefits of the colleges in the towns. But, I've also seen how, the college vote, can at times out gun the locals in the smaller college towns. And, they'll vote things that long term, are disasterous or whatever, but, because they don't or won't live there and deal with it for the long term, they vote to make "statements" or "feel good" stuff, or whatever......the kids are not "property tax" payers in those counties, but, vote on things the property taxes are used for.........

And, why can't students, register absentee, and vote in their home towns, from where they are, anyway?
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:41 pm

Massachusetts pulled ut of the settlement action with the big banks and filed suite against them. This is the start of holding the banks accountable.

And the latest information from a Chase executive is damning and will surely lead to other states withdrawing from settlement talks and suing the big banks too.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by ygmir » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:43 pm

jkisha wrote:I have no problem with absentee voting. I do that myself and my polling place is less than a block away. That said, I really don't feel comfortable with your argument--especially as it has been used to try and suppress voters in cities where they actually live, because they are "only" renters. How long does a person have to reside in a place before they are considered actual residents? If I move a month before the election would I not be permitted to vote at my new location? And if I only rent, should that disqualify me from being able to vote?
ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote: This isn't about them voting on local issues, but even if it was, do those communities expect to have their cake and eat it too? They benefit and in many cases subsist on the kids living and going to school in their district. Why shouldnt they then have a voice?

well, yeah, but you can't just register to vote on a national level...........

and, see, that's my dilemma. I understand, what you say about the benefits of the colleges in the towns. But, I've also seen how, the college vote, can at times out gun the locals in the smaller college towns. And, they'll vote things that long term, are disasterous or whatever, but, because they don't or won't live there and deal with it for the long term, they vote to make "statements" or "feel good" stuff, or whatever......the kids are not "property tax" payers in those counties, but, vote on things the property taxes are used for.........

And, why can't students, register absentee, and vote in their home towns, from where they are, anyway?
I think you're off page a little........I am strictly speaking of students.
Yes, I know they rent where they are.
But, you know what I mean.......the majority of students, in a given school, have no plan to make that town their permanent home (whatever you want to call permanent, but, you know what I mean).
I have no problem with renters, of course.....
I'm, again, addressing strictly enrolled students.
and, if they're from the town, then, they'd already be registered in "their hometown".

I might ask, where you've heard there is some sort of "renters bias" as far as not voting? I've not heard that one.
I don't see any problem, with requiring a minimum residency, to vote in an area, though.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:56 pm

http://progressivetoo.com/2011/03/02/te ... d-to-vote/
This is the first article that came up on a quick Google search. There are countless others. Slippery slope. But if the reasons for not wanting college kids to vote wear as innocent as you outline,I'd have no trouble with it. But the reasons are much more nefarious.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Sola Gangsta » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:33 pm

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Sola Gangsta » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:54 pm

http://thelineinthesand.net/2011/02/01/ ... re-ciansa/

See the link called "recorded future"...
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by ygmir » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:14 pm

jkisha wrote:http://progressivetoo.com/2011/03/02/te ... d-to-vote/
This is the first article that came up on a quick Google search. There are countless others. Slippery slope. But if the reasons for not wanting college kids to vote wear as innocent as you outline,I'd have no trouble with it. But the reasons are much more nefarious.

yeah.
I totally understand........I just struggle, (as usual) because, there are valid points to both sides of that argument.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by littleflower » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:49 am

jkisha wrote:Some more info on how those that were arrested are being treated in lovely Los Angeles http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/01/409351 ... vists.html
oh dear me ....

i know it's a difference of opinion, but i think LA did a great job with OWS, gave them plenty of time and warning to disperse, and even offered nearly free office space for organizing and planning future demonstrations. but for some people it will never be enough.

i would argue that "the right to free speech and assembly" does not translate to "the right to erect tent cities on public property for months at a time." the city and its parks belong to everyone, not just those who are protesting.

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by cowboyangel » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:10 am

littleflower wrote:
jkisha wrote:Some more info on how those that were arrested are being treated in lovely Los Angeles http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/01/409351 ... vists.html
oh dear me ....

i know it's a difference of opinion, but i think LA did a great job with OWS, gave them plenty of time and warning to disperse, and even offered nearly free office space for organizing and planning future demonstrations. but for some people it will never be enough.

i would argue that "the right to free speech and assembly" does not translate to "the right to erect tent cities on public property for months at a time." the city and its parks belong to everyone, not just those who are protesting.
The air waves, (FCC), the federal forests, oceans and mineral resources belong to the people too, yet corporations have defacto-occupied these public trusts and made billions thanks to give-aways, favorable tax laws and poor oversight. Where is the public outrage over these "occupations"?
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by unjonharley » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:22 am

A buch of dim wit are starting the bull shit ov er again in Portland..

They say there demands have not been met??????

What demands??? Who is the spokes person that made any demands??

There plan is to march around and in the end.. Try to ruin another city park..

The police will have to use force necessary to protect property and joe citizen.

Yeah police.. I pay you to do the job, so I wont have to..

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by ygmir » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:32 am

cowboyangel wrote:
littleflower wrote:
jkisha wrote:Some more info on how those that were arrested are being treated in lovely Los Angeles http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/01/409351 ... vists.html
oh dear me ....

i know it's a difference of opinion, but i think LA did a great job with OWS, gave them plenty of time and warning to disperse, and even offered nearly free office space for organizing and planning future demonstrations. but for some people it will never be enough.

i would argue that "the right to free speech and assembly" does not translate to "the right to erect tent cities on public property for months at a time." the city and its parks belong to everyone, not just those who are protesting.
The air waves, (FCC), the federal forests, oceans and mineral resources belong to the people too, yet corporations have defacto-occupied these public trusts and made billions thanks to give-aways, favorable tax laws and poor oversight. Where is the public outrage over these "occupations"?

it is in the national interest, to mine and log, for materials to build things here.
it'd be interesting,to see how much you car would cost (if domestic), house, etc...if raw materials were handled as you seem to want.
The companies, do pay.......maybe not what you think, but, it's not "free"........and, the regulations and such, are costly.
Look at the scale necessary, to get the iron, copper, whatever out of the ground, even if it were totally "free" the costs would be, and are, enormous.
Same with fishing.
Where, do you think materials come from? Walmart?..........someone, has to mine or harvest, everything you have.

complain how much it costs to build a home, then, go and raise the prices for raw materials, even higher......
and, not to mention foriegn competition, for lumber for instance. Our national lumber doesn't even stay here. A lot is exported, and we use imported lumber from Canada...........
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by unjonharley » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:34 am

For those crying about getting hurt or some little owwy the cop put on you

Same as Burning Man, READ THE BACK OF YOUR TICKET

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:47 am

cowboyangel wrote:
littleflower wrote:
jkisha wrote:Some more info on how those that were arrested are being treated in lovely Los Angeles http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/01/409351 ... vists.html
oh dear me ....

i know it's a difference of opinion, but i think LA did a great job with OWS, gave them plenty of time and warning to disperse, and even offered nearly free office space for organizing and planning future demonstrations. but for some people it will never be enough.

i would argue that "the right to free speech and assembly" does not translate to "the right to erect tent cities on public property for months at a time." the city and its parks belong to everyone, not just those who are protesting.
The air waves, (FCC), the federal forests, oceans and mineral resources belong to the people too, yet corporations have defacto-occupied these public trusts and made billions thanks to give-aways, favorable tax laws and poor oversight. Where is the public outrage over these "occupations"?
I was going to answer that slightly differently, but I like your reply.
I think that if the right to protest does not push the envelop it becomes impotent. Part of the reason that they have gained the traction they have, and have managed to change the whole conversation in news and politics, is because of their unique method of protest--occupation.
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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Ugly Dougly » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:50 am

For my part, I don't care to let contempt inform my politics.

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Re: OCCUPYWALLSTREET REINFORCEMENTS!

Post by Elderberry » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:55 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:For my part, I don't care to let contempt inform my politics.
Though a seemingly wise statement, I'm not sure exactly how it relates. Care to elaborate?
Elderberry

When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me

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