2nd year dilemma - seeking advice

[flower_2011]

Hello fellow burners!

2012 will be my 2nd burn. A single day doesn't pass without having a thought of burning man or taking some action because of it - whether it's picking up a piece of garbage, smiling at a stranger or planning for 2012. I literally can not wait to go home! My first burn was such a profound experience –such a high concentration of love, respect, beauty, art and shared responsibility - that I was able to open my mind so deeply, becoming in touch with my inner self and let feelings of love and giving freely flow. I'm sooooo excited to reconnect with the community and become a greater part of it. In fact, I was considering going to this year's burn - alone in order to consume myself with it.

Ok now onto my dilemma... I have a rather large group (15-20ppl) of friends who are like family to me - they all want to attend 2012- they like to party - A LOT, did I mention they'll go days without stopping? I love them but I fear that some of them won't tap into the greater experience that is our home and community. (Selfishly) I fear that I will be forced to emerge them into burningman / be responsible for them. I fear that I will crave solitude while on the playa but won't be able to follow my playa callings. I realize how incredibly selfish this sounds - hence my dilemma. I want to help my friends have an amazing first burn, but I was also looking forward to having more of a solitary 2nd burn - connecting with fellow burners... I can't wait to go back home and get more involved this year. What have your experiences been?

[Elderberry]

What? Are you serious?! I guarantee if you go with that many newbies, and partiers at that, it is guaranteed that you will have a terrible time and regret doing it and possibly ruin your friendship.

On the positive side, as the event gets closer, many will decide not to go. And youll see how serious those still left are taking preparation for a week in the desert. Based on you even having to ask, I assume that you already know the answer to that.

[Eric]

Point your friends to the First Timers Guide & the Survival Guide (links in my sig line), help answer their questions (point them here as well)- but let them know that you will not be camping with them. Explain that you want a more solitary experience, and while you're sure you will all spend time together, you need personal time as well this year.

If they're like family they may not be happy about it, but they'll accept it. Just remember that it's not your job to ensure they're having a good time.

Like JK says- there's a really good chance most of them will drop out long before the event.

[Savannah]

You're not being selfish. Nope. Obey your instincts--don't make yourself responsible for the group. Tell them you're feeling like a contemplative 2nd Burn and that it needs to be a solitary pilgrimage for spiritual reasons, or however you want to phrase it. "That's just what my soul demands, and I'm at its mercy." *shrug* You can look apologetic and friendly about it.

If this doesn't make sense to them, tell 'em they'll understand by the time their week is over, and there's no reason they can't take charge of their own experience and go. And that you'd be sure to drop by and visit them. (You can both register your addresses to the nearest 5 minutes on the clock at Playa Info in Center Camp . . . or try a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday meet up at the 'Man, north side, high noon until contact is established.)

Then, show them where the First Timer's Guide is on the main site, emphasizing perhaps the 10 Principles and the Survival Guide, and turn 'em loose!

(The only virgins I ever asked to go to the Burn with me were low-key, solid, stable, capable people. One per year. One! In 2001 and 2003. It was very pleasant.)

[Elliot]

In my personal opinion, it is incumbent on all burners to act as door keepers for the event. It would be inconsiderate to 50.000 other burners to dump 15 or 20 potentially incorrigible non-burners on us. (I brought a similar number of birgins in 2007. It turned out very well, but they were all mature sensible adults.)

[flower_2011]

Thanks all! Interesting perspectives. Everything each of you said makes a ton of sense. I appreciate your feedback.

Like JK said - I've had the answer all along, but just didn't know how to act on it. I certainly don't want to bring "potentially incorrigible non-burners" to the playa (as Elliot said). I had encounters with a few of these last year and left feeling sad for them - for missing the point entirely -I sincerely hope that my friends wouldn't end up in this category. I do feel semi-responsible to my fellow burners. Food for thought indeed.

While I'm a burner now - I'm a baby burner who has lots to learn and contribute before de-virginizing a large group - maybe one virgin would be fun/nice

Thanks again - I will certainly heed your wisdom!

[Elderberry]

Thanks again - I will certainly heed your wisdom!

that would be a first.

[flower_2011]

Thanks again - I will certainly heed your wisdom!

that would be a first.

Why is that? It's good advice! I wouldn't have posted on here if I didn't sincerely seek others experiences or thoughts Thanks again.

[Savannah]

We're not used to being heeded.

[Saguache]

Ok now onto my dilemma... I have a rather large group (15-20ppl) of friends who are like family to me - they all want to attend 2012- they like to party - A LOT, did I mention they'll go days without stopping? I love them but I fear that some of them won't tap into the greater experience that is our home and community. (Selfishly) I fear that I will be forced to emerge them into burningman / be responsible for them. I fear that I will crave solitude while on the playa but won't be able to follow my playa callings. I realize how incredibly selfish this sounds - hence my dilemma. I want to help my friends have an amazing first burn, but I was also looking forward to having more of a solitary 2nd burn - connecting with fellow burners... I can't wait to go back home and get more involved this year. What have your experiences been?

Every person's burn is their own. If I help you out because you've partied too hard I'm making a decision to support you as part of my experience. Despite what you might think (or thought prior simmering your brains and debouching with abandon) the decision to help you in this hypothetical situation is completely my own. While holding your hair in the porta potty and lending you my toothbrush I cannot blame you for the situation we're both currently sharing.

If I don't really want to steer you back to camp as the sun is coming up or ensure you don't get jiggy with that mullet guy I should, and will, accept responsibility for this decision and tell you about it far in advance of you actually needing me to provide assistance.

Seriously, it sounds like you'll regret playing the designated responsible party -- so don't agree to be that person. If going to your second burn on your own or with other, perhaps less familiar, people is the only way you can get out of playing Rosencrace to their Gildenstern then so be it, I say. You've obviously got different priorities.

In any event dont agree to a regrettable situation.

[JDCookMS]

Seriously, it sounds like you'll regret playing the designated responsible party -- so don't agree to be that person. If going to your second burn on your own or with other, perhaps less familiar, people is the only way you can get out of playing Rosencrace to their Gildenstern then so be it, I say. You've obviously got different priorities.

In any event dont agree to a regrettable situation.

This, most definitely x1000. Just be diplomatic about it and say that, of course anyone who buys a ticket can go and that you'll help get them ready to survive... but that you're going to do your own thing for the week. Tell them that you're using it as a vacation to just relax and get away from everything, that although you value their friendships, you just need a week to get away from everything.

[Eric]

I had encounters with a few of these last year and left feeling sad for them - for missing the point entirely -I sincerely hope that my friends wouldn't end up in this category.

One thing here- there is no "point" to the event, and how someone else chooses to enjoy it is their business. There is no correct way. There are certain things that annoy the hell out of me (like the out-of-control MOOP the last few years), but that's something no one group is to blame for (I've seen MOOP before Gate opens, so it's not like the early crew doesn't have a few bad apples).

People wanting to go & party is fine- I do it myself most nights. I have an amazing time & keep returning to the playa, and I don't think anyone would accuse me of "not getting it". The thing you have to remember is that you're separating yourself from them because they're (probably) not going to want to have the experience you're looking for this year, not that their partying in itself is bad.

When you see me have issue with weekenders etc, it's not because they party too much, it's because they only party and ignore the fact there is so much more to experience than that (and tend to MOOP like it's going out of style).

[flower_2011]

I had encounters with a few of these last year and left feeling sad for them - for missing the point entirely -I sincerely hope that my friends wouldn't end up in this category.

When you see me have issue with weekenders etc, it's not because they party too much, it's because they only party and ignore the fact there is so much more to experience than that (and tend to MOOP like it's going out of style).

I totally agree! Don't get me wrong, I party with the rest them! I love to dance til the sun comes up (and even after that!), but I also enjoy biking around the playa, meeting other burners, joining in activities, visiting art and center camp, etc....etc.... I believe that people find value in different experiences - to each their own! That's part of the magic of burning man.

Again - all points are well taken

[Elderberry]

We're not used to being heeded.

[Bob]

Advice: Remove stick from butt, enjoy the company of your friends, and do everything wrong. Everybody has a sophomore slump, may as well get really damaged in the process and get it out of your system.

[Dr. Pyro]

What? Are you serious?! I guarantee if you go with that many newbies, and partiers at that, it is guaranteed that you will have a terrible time and regret doing it and possibly ruin your friendship.

I absolutely couldn't agree more.

[Roberto Dobbisano]

i would give my left testicle to film this delicious train wreck.

[theCryptofishist]

Interesting. I do have room for a testicle...

[Simon of the Playa]

manic monday, traumatic tuesday, weepy wednesday, thorazine thursday, fried day, Sensational Saturday, Serotin-less Sunday, Metaphysical Monday.

im reposting this even though crossposting is frowned upon, i just hope you are prepared to sherpa that many cats to that thing in the desert.


you're one brave motherfucker.


i suggest a portable P.A. system and a recording of an electric can opener or a "pounce" kitty treat can being shaken on a continuous loop.

[youtube][/youtube]

[JDCookMS]

i suggest a portable P.A. system and a recording of an electric can opener or a "pounce" kitty treat can being shaken on a continuous loop.

Or, better yet, in addition to the P.A. system, you could fit all of the people with a GPS tracking device (not around the neck, though, that's just inhumane). Also, for easy tracking at night, you could just attach a weather ballon to them and have a batter operated flashing light tied to the ballon, then you could see them however far away from camp.

[Simon of the Playa]

shock collars are not inhumane when it involves propane and avoiding third degree burns.

it is best to clearly mark them (the newbs), and if walking en masse, across the playa link them together with L- Wire to form a chain.

[JDCookMS]

Ohhhh, you're using shock collars? Never mind then, that's humane. I was thinking of something a little better though...whenever you want them to return to camp, the collar would release the smell of bacon in the direction of camp. ...the closer they get to camp, the stronger the smell of bacon. Voila.

[wh..sh]

I had encounters with a few of these last year and left feeling sad for them - for missing the point entirely -I sincerely hope that my friends wouldn't end up in this category.

One thing here- there is no "point" to the event, and how someone else chooses to enjoy it is their business. There is no correct way.

+1000

Advice: Remove stick from butt, enjoy the company of your friends, and do everything wrong. Everybody has a sophomore slump, may as well get really damaged in the process and get it out of your system.

+100000000

[lemur]

+1000

+100000000

<AOL>Me too!!!!</AOL>

[RedHeaven]

You are not being selfish by knowing your wants and boundaries. This isn't a frickin Greenpeace mission, your muse needs to breathe. Bman is a good place to balance out hedonism amongst the unity. Enjoy meeting new people and finding some adventurers on your brain wave.