Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
-
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:42 am
Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
The defenders of the lotto post so often and vigorously, if you perusing the boards and not paying attention you'd almost think that the proponents and opponents of the new system are about evenly split. Until you realize that there are, like, 5 defenders who comprise the majority of the posts. I don't get it. Do you think if you get the BORG's back at every turn that Larry Harvey himself will fly through your living room window upon a flaming winged jackrabbit and give you the golden key to BRC? Kidding kidding. Kind of.
- theCryptofishist
- Posts: 40313
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
- Burning Since: 2017
- Location: In Exile
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
*gentle snore*
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
- ygmir
- Posts: 29615
- Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
- Burning Since: 2017
- Camp Name: qqqq
- Location: nevada county
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
theCryptofishist wrote:*gentle snore*

YGMIR
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
why do you give a crap if someone disagrees with you ?
Don't link to anything here!
- piehole
- Posts: 501
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:44 pm
- Burning Since: 2012
- Camp Name: MiscreAnts
Bants
Glitter Apocalypse - Location: San Diego
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
get over it!
Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible.
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
I'm Elliot and I approve of this poster's writing style.Arcticcircle wrote:...Larry Harvey himself will fly through your living room window upon a flaming winged jackrabbit and give you the golden key to BRC?

- jella
- Posts: 1823
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:01 pm
- Burning Since: 2009
- Camp Name: Dye with dignity
- Location: Escondido, California
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
+1 ....best giggle so farElliot wrote:I'm Elliot and I approve of this poster's writing style.Arcticcircle wrote:...Larry Harvey himself will fly through your living room window upon a flaming winged jackrabbit and give you the golden key to BRC?
Burning Man isn't about the stuff you see when you get there ....it's about the people that brought that stuff there
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
Wait a second... My cat was sitting on the windowsill and wha..at is that I see... a dead jackrabbit!Arcticcircle wrote:Do you think if you get the BORG's back at every turn that Larry Harvey himself will fly through your living room window upon a flaming winged jackrabbit and give you the golden key to BRC?
Peanut says sorry.
In my world there's only legible and more legible.
-Bob
-Bob
-
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:42 am
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
Here kitty kitty.... drop it... drop it... good kitty.
Lemur, the small, vocal group of defenders are of course entitled to their opinions... anyone is. And believe me, anyone who has taken a look-see at this thread has heard it loud and clear. The message has gotten through. But it's just getting to the point where I can't even find a thread that gets any momentum with an idea exchange, because a core group of pro-lotto folks keep interrupting the flow. I get it, some people love the lotto. Cool. It's your year. Can the rest of us just talk about it and make suggestions without being constantly interrupted by the same 5 people saying that they love the lotto? It's like being at a party where someone is monopolizing the proverbial talking stick and stunting what could be a more fruitful and organic conversation, perhaps producing better ideas that would ultimately serve us all.
I'm really frustrated by the recent choices of the BORG, but ultimately I really love you guys, I appreciate passionate people and I think the pro-lottos just love BM and want to give the BORG some support. I just think that some of the eplaya activity has been pretty heavy-handed on the pro-lotto side, and gives a distorted view of your average burners feelings on the matter.
Lemur, the small, vocal group of defenders are of course entitled to their opinions... anyone is. And believe me, anyone who has taken a look-see at this thread has heard it loud and clear. The message has gotten through. But it's just getting to the point where I can't even find a thread that gets any momentum with an idea exchange, because a core group of pro-lotto folks keep interrupting the flow. I get it, some people love the lotto. Cool. It's your year. Can the rest of us just talk about it and make suggestions without being constantly interrupted by the same 5 people saying that they love the lotto? It's like being at a party where someone is monopolizing the proverbial talking stick and stunting what could be a more fruitful and organic conversation, perhaps producing better ideas that would ultimately serve us all.
I'm really frustrated by the recent choices of the BORG, but ultimately I really love you guys, I appreciate passionate people and I think the pro-lottos just love BM and want to give the BORG some support. I just think that some of the eplaya activity has been pretty heavy-handed on the pro-lotto side, and gives a distorted view of your average burners feelings on the matter.
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
what makes you think people who point out the logistical challenges (and who post maybe missed or ignored info from the LLC) of some of the proposed solutions to the lottery/scarcity issue support the lottery? or actually are pro lottery/like it in any way ?Arcticcircle wrote:Here kitty kitty.... drop it... drop it... good kitty.
Lemur, the small, vocal group of defenders are of course entitled to their opinions... anyone is. And believe me, anyone who has taken a look-see at this thread has heard it loud and clear. The message has gotten through. But it's just getting to the point where I can't even find a thread that gets any momentum with an idea exchange, because a core group of pro-lotto folks keep interrupting the flow. I get it, some people love the lotto. Cool. It's your year. Can the rest of us just talk about it and make suggestions without being constantly interrupted by the same 5 people saying that they love the lotto? It's like being at a party where someone is monopolizing the proverbial talking stick and stunting what could be a more fruitful and organic conversation, perhaps producing better ideas that would ultimately serve us all.
just because one may be able to find fault with a proposal solution doesnt mean one automatically supports the lottery.. or wants special favor from the LLC or is towing the campany line
i dont see pointing out the logistical challenges of some of the solutions that people suggest as a defense of the lottery system
I dont think that suggesting that people hold tight and wait and see the results of the main sale before declaring it a failure is a defense of the lottery system either..
im not sure what you mean about the momentum of an idea exchange being halted by people posting stuff that disagrees with others....... what kind of idea exchange excludes those of different opinions and viewpoints/perspectives ?
A lot of threads and comments are full of pie in the sky stuff that isnt logistically feasible, even some posts full of factual inaccuracies ...you dont promote disinformation (or misinformation/misunderstanding) being freely spread in our community do you?
Im not sure that i can see the open discourse that we enjoy on eplaya as an 'interruption' ...if all youre looking for is discourse between likeminded people youre about as likely to be able to enforce and create that environment here as you are to create one free of dance music at the burn itself.. radical self expression is a two way street.. and sometimes you have to take some of the bad with the good..
i dont really think the solution to fix the perceived problem you see as a small core group monopolizing the discussion can be resolved by instituting an imposed monopoly where only likeminded people can participate... in essence, creating an echo chamber...
our community has largely embraced radical inclusion and radical self expression..
the suggestion that limiting the conversation to like-minded opinions may result in a more fruitful and organic conversation seems quite conflicted to me..
how can a conversation that doesnt consider opposing views (or new/different information) be more fruitful and produce so-called better ideas ?
Also.. I would add that this is mainly a discussion board.. while there may be some involvement by a few in the decision making parts of the LLC, and there have been a few ideas from the forums that have been pushed up the chain.. this isnt a place to solve problems or offer solutions.. it is a place to discuss stuff.. the LLC might look at things here to guage community opinion.. but they surely arent looking here to find out how they should run their business
burning man is not a democracy and eplaya is not a proving ground for future solutions to run the business of burning man.. clearly the fact that they continued with their Lottery program against VOCAL opposition on eplaya is enough evidence of this..
we discuss things here.. we talk, find out about other peoples activities, opinions and ideas.. limiting the discussion to like-minded folks only would only stifle the discussions that do take place here.. ending up with a bunch of "ME TOO!!" "I AGREE!!" posts really isnt so appealing..
Don't link to anything here!
- Stickygreen
- Posts: 307
- Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:17 pm
- Location: Vancouver
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
Wholly Fuck, a thread on eplaya that actually has logical and polite discussion!
WOW, i never thought i'd see the day...
WOW, i never thought i'd see the day...
)'(
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
Awwwww.... I was hoping for more flaming flying flapjacks.
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
ask and ye shall receive!!!Elliot wrote:Awwwww.... I was hoping for more flaming flying flapjacks.

Don't link to anything here!
- theCryptofishist
- Posts: 40313
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
- Burning Since: 2017
- Location: In Exile
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
And, once again, I'm back in love with lemur...
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
- theCryptofishist
- Posts: 40313
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
- Burning Since: 2017
- Location: In Exile
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
Of course, if I had that much faith in LH, I'd actually like the theme...
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
Oh puppies!ygmir wrote:
-- Inspire or empower your neighbor, the rest is a waste of precious time
- piehole
- Posts: 501
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:44 pm
- Burning Since: 2012
- Camp Name: MiscreAnts
Bants
Glitter Apocalypse - Location: San Diego
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
Those pancakes need to be in my mouth
Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible.
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
if you think they look good sitting there.. just imagine how good they are when they are inside of your mouth
Don't link to anything here!
- piehole
- Posts: 501
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:44 pm
- Burning Since: 2012
- Camp Name: MiscreAnts
Bants
Glitter Apocalypse - Location: San Diego
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
Are you.... are you coming on to me?
Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible.
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
piehole wrote:Are you.... are you coming on to me?
well you havnt got me QUITE that excited just yet!
Don't link to anything here!
- piehole
- Posts: 501
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:44 pm
- Burning Since: 2012
- Camp Name: MiscreAnts
Bants
Glitter Apocalypse - Location: San Diego
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
You gonna eat those pancakes or what
Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible.
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
I think that the lottery *IS* the old system. Leaving aside the delay in ticket fulfillment, there is no functional difference for the buyer between a first-come-first serve system where everyone arrives at the same time. Either way who is awarded a ticket is governed by random chance.Arcticcircle wrote:The defenders of the lotto post so often and vigorously, if you perusing the boards and not paying attention you'd almost think that the proponents and opponents of the new system are about evenly split. Until you realize that there are, like, 5 defenders who comprise the majority of the posts. I don't get it. Do you think if you get the BORG's back at every turn that Larry Harvey himself will fly through your living room window upon a flaming winged jackrabbit and give you the golden key to BRC? Kidding kidding. Kind of.
The difference in the buyer's emotional response is like the the difference in driving and flying.
When driving on the interstate, I feel in control because I hold the wheel, and my foot is on the pedal. But there is absolutely nothing I can do if some drunken asshole decides to jump the median and slams through my windshield. The human response time is not fast enough for me to do anything. My life is not really in my own hands - but I feel like it is.
When flying, it is made completely clear to me that I am not in control, and that there is nothing to do to improve my chances of survival. So even though flying is the most absurdly safe form of travel imaginable, I still sometimes get irrationally nervous. Because here my life is not really in my own hands - and I know it.
I think that the same is true with tickets. In the everybody-mob-the-server-at-once system, someone might feel like they have control - but they don't. With the random distribution, the person knows that they are not in control.
The random distribution just smooths out the process a little, allows for some removal of obvious profiteering and cheating, and gives equal opportunity to people who might have to be driving fire trucks or something else other than staring at the ticket web site at 12:00 PST. It doesn't fix the real issue - nor was that the purpose of it.
The real issue:
I think that there are simply less tickets than people who realistically want to go, have their shit together by January, and have as much as a right as anyone else to have a shot at going. Or maybe not, but it is close, and in a few years it may be more.
So there is no solution. There is no 'fair' way to do it. Unless you really want to rank everyone by the value of their prior contributions, or make virgins write down applications and decide which ones appear to be the most desirable - make it an exclusive club.
Camps will have to adapt - adopt a more rhizomic structure where there is no single core person that must be there. Perhaps the architecture must become more decentralized, modular, and adaptable to whatever resources actually make it to the playa.
If 50 camp mates each pledge to bring 50 watts of solar, and 40 campers get a ticket, then the camp has up to 2 kW of power, depending on how they devise a grid. Basic Monkey huts can be chained together to make larger shade structures. And so on...
If these "real burners" are really creative, self-reliant people, then they will plan some really kick ass events and vacations for themselves on the orphan years, or possibly focus effort on local regional burns, or explore events in different parts of the US, or even other countries.
I don't think that you need to have the BMorg's back. I think that there is a golden key, and that it will be handed out, it just is not necessarily to BRC specifically.Arcticcircle wrote: I don't get it. Do you think if you get the BORG's back at every turn that Larry Harvey himself will fly through your living room window upon a flaming winged jackrabbit and give you the golden key to BRC?
As a relative newcomer, I don't really want to repeat the same thing everyone has been doing for the last five or six years or so - I want to see what comes next. I am excited about what adventure, challenges, and creative solutions that the future may bring. Maybe it will be at BRC, maybe somewhere else.

Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
Arcticcircle wrote:Here kitty kitty.... drop it... drop it... good kitty.
Lemur, the small, vocal group of defenders are of course entitled to their opinions... anyone is. And believe me, anyone who has taken a look-see at this thread has heard it loud and clear. The message has gotten through. But it's just getting to the point where I can't even find a thread that gets any momentum with an idea exchange, because a core group of pro-lotto folks keep interrupting the flow. I get it, some people love the lotto. Cool. It's your year. Can the rest of us just talk about it and make suggestions without being constantly interrupted by the same 5 people saying that they love the lotto? It's like being at a party where someone is monopolizing the proverbial talking stick and stunting what could be a more fruitful and organic conversation, perhaps producing better ideas that would ultimately serve us all.
I'm really frustrated by the recent choices of the BORG, but ultimately I really love you guys, I appreciate passionate people and I think the pro-lottos just love BM and want to give the BORG some support. I just think that some of the eplaya activity has been pretty heavy-handed on the pro-lotto side, and gives a distorted view of your average burners feelings on the matter.
I'm not here to support the Org. I'm here to spread logical thought and hopefully help my community by opposing the spread of disinformation. I also am not great at sitting there and watching people re-hash the same four ideas as if they were brand new and had never been considered.
If you want to have a thread where people don't point out the problems with the proposed solutions, make one. You can call it "Ticketing Brainstorming - please no criticism".
You may be a little disappointed by the turn out, because I am guessing that most of the people who post "new" ideas that we've all heard before don't use the search function. For my part, I'll certainly point every single one of them your way, and I promise not to go in there and incite a riot.
ZaphodBurner wrote:
The difference between buying a ticket from a scalper and prostituting yourself for one is, if you suck dick for a ticket and brag about it, burners will still respect you.
-
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:53 pm
- Burning Since: 2011
- Location: Bocas del Toro, Panama
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
Wait...so today is January 29th...Burning Man starts in HOW many days?
- AntiM
- Moderator
- Posts: 20228
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:23 am
- Burning Since: 2001
- Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art
- Location: Wild, Wild West
- Contact:
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
I hate the lottery. I hated FCFS. I wouldn't know Larry Harvey if he, or his flaming jackrabbit, bit me on the ass.
But I agree with Jester and MeV, there aren't enough tickets, so any system will result in unhappiness for some burners, either potential or veteran. And that eplaya sees a huge share of first time posters who feel the need to create new threads when there are perfectly useful on topic threads in existence, or their questions have been answered. It is a small forum, it is not that difficult to do a bit of reading and get the feel for what's what. But no, people don't work that way, so "the regulars" try to make sense of things. Moderators get the brunt of this, as they (not me directly anymore) are charged with keeping the cat herd on track, and with being a source of information (as it is handed down to them). It gets frustrating to see the same old same old when rational replies have been made repeatedly. So the snark fountain turns on.
Given the past history of eplaya interactions, this is remarkably civil.
But I agree with Jester and MeV, there aren't enough tickets, so any system will result in unhappiness for some burners, either potential or veteran. And that eplaya sees a huge share of first time posters who feel the need to create new threads when there are perfectly useful on topic threads in existence, or their questions have been answered. It is a small forum, it is not that difficult to do a bit of reading and get the feel for what's what. But no, people don't work that way, so "the regulars" try to make sense of things. Moderators get the brunt of this, as they (not me directly anymore) are charged with keeping the cat herd on track, and with being a source of information (as it is handed down to them). It gets frustrating to see the same old same old when rational replies have been made repeatedly. So the snark fountain turns on.
Given the past history of eplaya interactions, this is remarkably civil.
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=How+many+days+ ... in+2012%3Fkayalovelife wrote:Wait...so today is January 29th...Burning Man starts in HOW many days?
Really, it is not that hard...
Love Rice
Roach: "I feel like in this day and age, every girl should know how to build a flamethrower."
Roach: "I feel like in this day and age, every girl should know how to build a flamethrower."
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
Actually it is kind of a pain. You have to check if this year's burn has already passed, and then compare the current time to the appropriate burn. Here is my hack at it in PHP:stretch80 wrote:http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=How+many+days+ ... in+2012%3Fkayalovelife wrote:Wait...so today is January 29th...Burning Man starts in HOW many days?
Really, it is not that hard...
Code: Select all
$nextyear = date('Y')+1;
$burnstring = date('Y') . '-9-1 21:30:00 PDT';
$burntime = DateTime::createFromFormat('Y-m-d H:i:s T',$burnstring);
if ( $burntime->getTimestamp() <= time() )
{
$burnstring = $nextyear . '-9-1 21:30:00 PDT';
$burntime = DateTime::createFromFormat('Y-m-d H:i:s T',$burnstring);
}
$burndays = floor( ($burntime->getTimestamp() - time() ) / 86400 );
if ( $burndays > 1 ) { echo "There are $burndays days left until the man burns."; }
if ( $burndays == 1 ) { echo "There is one day left until the man burns."; }
if ( $burndays == 0 ) { echo "Today the man burns."; }
I am actually kind of curious if http://www.burningman.org gets this any more right than me.

-
- Posts: 185
- Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:48 am
- Location: Tent
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
I support the lottery still.. so I guess I am one of the 5 supporters you are calling out to.
Why you ask?
Well all BS aside I like new things, I think its a neato idea to try to curb scalpers and make ticket distribution more fair. The only thing I disagree with is the date they chose. I think they shoulda waited till after tax time since most burners I know use their returns for their tix.
Everyone in my household went for two tix for a coupla reasons. Mainly so any that lost lottery could still have a ticket and any leftovers we may have can goto art projects or themecamp builders that didnt make the drawing. We also plan on gifting a ticket or two as we do every year for the past 5 years.
Maybe if we get really lucky in the drawing we will have a gift ticket lottery if the mods approve. It would have to be youtube documented so people dont accuse us of showing favoritism with the recipient of the gift ticket
Why you ask?
Well all BS aside I like new things, I think its a neato idea to try to curb scalpers and make ticket distribution more fair. The only thing I disagree with is the date they chose. I think they shoulda waited till after tax time since most burners I know use their returns for their tix.
Everyone in my household went for two tix for a coupla reasons. Mainly so any that lost lottery could still have a ticket and any leftovers we may have can goto art projects or themecamp builders that didnt make the drawing. We also plan on gifting a ticket or two as we do every year for the past 5 years.
Maybe if we get really lucky in the drawing we will have a gift ticket lottery if the mods approve. It would have to be youtube documented so people dont accuse us of showing favoritism with the recipient of the gift ticket
- Roberto Dobbisano
- Posts: 2973
- Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:54 pm
- Location: Dobbidossola, Italy.
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
what the OP is insinuating is entirely true.
It is a vast Conspiracy, and we are but paid shills, working for the Man.
every thread i disrupt earns me points towards my own private porta pottie, and i'll be damned if i have to share the shitters with the great unwashed again this year.
they also promised me a hoverbike, and i'm a sucker for hoverbikes.
BTW, the BMorg has alien technology, and they're not afraid to use it, so if i were you, i'd just shut the fuck up right now.
ps....... nazi's....remember? we're nazi's.....space nazi's......the worst kind.
i hope this answers all of your questions.
It is a vast Conspiracy, and we are but paid shills, working for the Man.
every thread i disrupt earns me points towards my own private porta pottie, and i'll be damned if i have to share the shitters with the great unwashed again this year.
they also promised me a hoverbike, and i'm a sucker for hoverbikes.
BTW, the BMorg has alien technology, and they're not afraid to use it, so if i were you, i'd just shut the fuck up right now.
ps....... nazi's....remember? we're nazi's.....space nazi's......the worst kind.
i hope this answers all of your questions.
"10 principles? you cant HANDLE the 10 principles..."
- The CO
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:56 am
- Burning Since: 1996
- Camp Name: M*A*S*H 4207th/404://Village Not Found
- Location: I-CORPS, M*A*S*H HQ, Van Nuts, CA
Re: Hey to all five lotto defenders... why?
5280MeV wrote:The real issue:
I think that there are simply less tickets than people who realistically want to go
So many people don't understand that concept.....
It's not a matter of fairness, conspiracy, money grab, it's BASIC FUCKIN MATH!
M*A*S*H 4207th: An army of fun.
I don't care what the borg says: feather-wearers will NOT be served in Rosie's Bar.
When I ask how many burns, I mean at BRC.
I don't care what the borg says: feather-wearers will NOT be served in Rosie's Bar.
When I ask how many burns, I mean at BRC.