The CO wrote:Geezer Guy wrote:...the idea of the Burning man LLC selling the higest price tier first, and the lowest priced tickets last. That would give those that can afford it the best chance of getting a ticket, and leave a few low priced ticket for those that really need them.
This idea has come up several times. There is a reason that no one does this. No one. No show/concert/event ever.
I'll leave it up to the individual to figure out why.
Non-negative. I'm just pointing out facts here.
I'm sorry if I'm dense, but it doesn't seem obvious to me.
Well, let me rephrase that: I assume that the rest of the world doesn't do that because they want to maximize their profit. There's no motivation to buy an expensive ticket if there's a cheaper ticket coming, unless the event is going to sell out. If you're a standard ticket seller, once you sell out of $400 tickets you would know there is more demand for $400 tickets and wouldn't bother reducing the price to $300 for the remaining tickets.
I don't think that logic necessarily applies to the Org. In fact, it would be kinda awesome proof that we are different if we did something that intentionally avoided potential profits the way this proposed system would.
BeachBum wrote:I really like karma_cat's reasoned and thought out approaches and her responses trying to improve on various ideas, on this thread and on other threads. And i like several other regular posters having positive comments on stuff, there are ideas out there which can help improve the distribution of tickets to people who really want to go to this event and make a contribution.
Lemur wrote:
> having names on tickets doesnt fix the problem of scarcity
> the only issue names on tickets really deals with, as i see it, is scalping.. (scalping is legal in nevada)
Having names on tickets does reduce the problem of scarcity on the initial ticket sales because people can't over-order tickets. It reduces the initial demand for tickets so that people who want to plan ahead and really care deeply about attending Burning Man are at an advantage to people who don't. The people who care enough to plan camps, art, art cars, and other contributions have a much greater chances of knowing that they can make it to the playa, and they are some of the people who are most PO'ed at the system this year. This would help. They are the ones who help make this event be so incredible through their goodwill, and should be favored in any ticket distribution system.
If one would like to gift tickets to others who didn't plan ahead, they could either ask them early or pray tickets are available later. Anyways, the system should be set up to favor people who plan ahead, of which the amazing contributors are included, over stuff like last minute gift tickets.
Positivity, and being willing to work together in a positive manner are wonderful attributes.
Beach Bum
I think I agree with Lemur's point: the only people who should be favored are the ones who actually volunteer for the Org. Theme camps are awesome, and important, but no particular theme camp is vital. I guess we'll have to see what happens this year, if there is a major drop in theme camp participation then I'll like your idea a lot more. If there isn't a major drop in theme camp participation then I probably won't think we need to give them extra benefits.
Besides, isn't hating on Techno a Burner sport?
Names on tickets won't slow people down if they are getting a will call ticket and it won't slow people down (much) if they have early entry. Is there a way to sell tickets just to the early entry crews?
I know this doesn't solve all the problems, I'm really just brainstorming here.
LegendZero wrote:I ABSOLUTELY LOVE 5280MeV's IDEA OF HAVING A SECOND LOTTERY OF LOWER PRICED TICKETS AFTER A FIRST HIGHER PRICED ONE! This would expand upon the situation this year of the $420 lottery going well, and this one having many unhappy participants. I really believe that the tiered prices system should be eliminated to reduce the gaming of it, as apparently is being seriously considered for 2013, but this idea of having a second smaller lottery of lower priced tickets would "probably" allow those of us who are really serious about contributing to know that we can make it to the playa. If a system like this could be set up correctly, that is.
I too like the idea of tier lotterys highest to lowest with remaning tickets (if any) going to the next lottery.
This risk/reward for a scalper in the earlier lotteries go up and the people who want to pay top dollar to be there can. As discussed it also allows BMOrg to have money up front and early as needed. I think we almost had that this year with the presale to main lottery its just the main lottery has 3 different price groups dumped together and scalpers do have every reason to enter the lottery while they had little to enter the presale. the more tiers being awarded consecutively highest to lowest makes it hard for the scalpers to find the best time to make their money and makes it easier for dedicated burners AND theme camps. With theme camps the core people who
need to be there can enter for those early high price high tier tickets and the rest can opt for lower tiers at a possibly lower chance of getting a ticket. Anyone entered in to a higher tier that didn't get a ticket could be automatically entered into the next tier and so on. To me the this seems like the best way to ward off scalpers by making them hit a moving target with no guarantees, to encourage burners who can afford the highest price to pay the highest price, and to give theme camps the best way to ensure the people they need there get there.
I like this idea, too. However, one issue I see with it is that by having multiple drawings, we give the scalpers a chance to test the system. Then, the tickets most vulnerable to scalping are sold last.
Just as a brainstorm, what if they had two lotteries, one for 60% of the tickets at a high price and then the other which included the low tier tickets.
If we leave enough of the tickets for the second drawing then we won't create as much demand for the first drawing.
Another (possibly stupid) idea is to have the tickets sold cheapest to most expensive. An effect of this is that we don't punish people who are willing to pay more (because we give them an opportunity to buy the cheap tickets first) and it makes it hard for scalpers to compete for the cheap tickets (everyone else will be there trying to buy them, too).
alt12 wrote:lemur wrote:having names on tickets doesnt fix the problem of scarcity.
the issue of scarcity is not big enough to justify the lottery system. There is a moderate degree of scarcity (i.e. 5-10% more people that want to go than had tickets, not 100% more.... We're not dealing with 200,000 people want to go to BM. We went over our allotment mildly. This is the first year that's happened. lets not get hysterical about the scarcity factor when it is not as big as the perception of scarcity that was created with the lottery system.
And you know what a great solution to scarcity is? First-come, first-serve. Rather than random and chaotic lottery process, those that know they want to go and are obviously highly invested in going and are preparing early will get the tickets. Those that wait, procrastinate, are undecided, are virgins who decide late in the year, etc. will have a harder time getting tickets. Problem solved. Basically, there was no problem (aside from server crashes due to the mad rush for Tier-1 which would had been easily solved by eliminating tiers years ago).
There is a tremendous amount of over thinking for a system that really wasn't all that broken. Server crashes were the biggest problem. Seems a lot more preferable than the current situation. Go back to first-come first serve, and eliminate tiers. I know I'm repeating what others have said but I'm going to say it anyway...
We went over out BLM limit slightly, but I don't think that everyone who wanted a ticket got one. In addition, our population has historically grown faster than our limit (and at some point the BLM won't raise the limit any more). So, I think it's fair to assume that scarcity will become more of an issue each year.
I don't really disagree that the lottery created a bigger perception of scarcity than the actual scarcity itself.
I don't think I would like the idea of a first come first serve that was similar to our old system. I think that scalper bots would ruin it for the rest of us.
Keep in mind that the scarcity, or perception of it, may have motivated the exact same amount of people to buy the exact same amount of tickets under the old system. That would likely mean we'd be sold out by now, and have a lot of tickets in the hands of scalpers. Even if there was only a 30% chance of that happening, I'm glad the Org did SOMETHING to stop it.
karma_cat wrote:Shambala wrote:The scarcity of tickets could be fixed if the population were kept in check. As mentioned, banning RV's will alienate a large segment of ticket buyers. Banning nudity will keep both the naked people and the people who want to see naked people, off the playa. Raise prices to keep the less affluent home. Just how high the prices could be raised, will take a few years to test exactly where the pain threshold is.
With the rich RV folks, and the poorer artsy types not attending, there will be plenty of tickets available, and a lottery would not be needed.
First they came for the shirt-cockers ... and I said nothing ...
This may be the best post ever.
If anyone is still reading: I think it's fair to ask someone to be more polite if they have offended you (and certainly it's preferable to escalation of a flame war). It's also fair to ask that people assume your good will, and that you don't intend to be rude.
I don't have anything specific to say to anyone, but it seems like the "be nice" point was coming up, and I thought I'd flesh out what I meant in the first post.
