Did you win tickets for less than your Max bid?

illy dilly · Post by **illy dilly** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:49 am

I'm very interested in how many folks entered at each ticket level, and how many won at what level.
There are a few other poles, but I feel that this pole is a different, even though similar, question.

Thank you very much!

BBadger · Post by **BBadger** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:56 am

People should also apply check boxes for any camp mates, e.g. you tried for 2x tickets at T2, a camp mate tried for 2x at T3, so click both checkboxes for how it turned out. It won't be perfectly accurate, but still good information.

Killbuck · Post by **Killbuck** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:35 am

Q: Why is there no category for someone who requested only 1 ticket in the upper tiers?

I only bid for one ticket at one tier.

latinaburner · Post by **latinaburner** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:43 am

It says one (or two) on the first category...

Interesting how so far I don't see anybody get a lower tier than the highest that they said chose. hmmmm

bm_cricket · Post by **bm_cricket** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:37 pm

I want to see what this poll looks like. I wonder if someone is willing to make it sticky?

snardy · Post by **snardy** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:12 pm

latinaburner wrote:It says one (or two) on the first category...

Interesting how so far I don't see anybody get a lower tier than the highest that they said chose. hmmmm

Yeah, no kidding. I don't know a single friend who got a lower price than the maximum they indicated.
They whole system was retarded.

snardy · Post by **snardy** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:14 pm

bm_cricket wrote:I want to see what this poll looks like. I wonder if someone is willing to make it sticky?

They're not going to sticky it. You should know that the BMORG prefers to keep this sort of data hidden away. Transparency is a bad thing when you're trying to run a fiefdom by fiat.

Galaxo Magic · Post by **Galaxo Magic** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:16 pm

BBadger, make sure this is also posted in the 'Did not win threads' if you want somewhat accurate stuff.

Our camp did pretty well, about 75% scored BUT that still SUCKS. Like thousands of other burners, we'll be scrambling....

bm_cricket · Post by **bm_cricket** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:17 pm

snardy wrote:Yeah, no kidding. I don't know a single friend who got a lower price than the maximum they indicated.
They whole system was retarded.

I only know a few people who got tickets at all. The core members of my camp have no tickets.

bm_cricket · Post by **bm_cricket** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:25 pm

snardy wrote:They're not going to sticky it. You should know that the BMORG prefers to keep this sort of data hidden away. Transparency is a bad thing when you're trying to run a fiefdom by fiat.

ePlaya is filled run by burners, some of whom, I'm sure, are upset with how this is turning out. They don't know any more than we do about the inner workings of the Borg. The Burning Man is almost entirely run by volunteers and I bet there are a lot of volunteers who are really pissed off right now. The Borg I'm talking about is the very small group that gets paid for this little cult. They don't release any numbers but the event happens because of the millions of man hours by thousands of dedicated and talented volunteers every year. Those volunteers probably won't be busting their asses quite so hard this year if they can't hunt down tickets until July....

snardy · Post by **snardy** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:28 pm

bm_cricket wrote:
snardy wrote:They're not going to sticky it. You should know that the BMORG prefers to keep this sort of data hidden away. Transparency is a bad thing when you're trying to run a fiefdom by fiat.
ePlaya is filled run by burners, some of whom, I'm sure, are upset with how this is turning out. They don't know any more than we do about the inner workings of the Borg. The Burning Man is almost entirely run by volunteers and I bet there are a lot of volunteers who are really pissed off right now. The Borg I'm talking about is the very small group that gets paid for this little cult. They don't release any numbers but the event happens because of the millions of man hours by thousands of dedicated and talented volunteers every year. Those volunteers probably won't be busting their asses quite so hard this year if they can't hunt down tickets until July....

The tone of the mods on here would suggest otherwise.

I know they are volunteers and dedicate their time and effort to running this online community, but their responses in the forums have all been an attempt to whitewash the problem. It's been a textbook example of poor communications and disastrous PR in the face of calamity.

Galaxo Magic · Post by **Galaxo Magic** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:42 pm

anyone wrote:
The tone of the mods on here would suggest otherwise.

The tone of the mods gives the impression they had tickets secured, not having to deal with the holy hell of a lottery.....

Post by **Savannah** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:50 pm

snardy wrote:
bm_cricket wrote:
snardy wrote:They're not going to sticky it. You should know that the BMORG prefers to keep this sort of data hidden away. Transparency is a bad thing when you're trying to run a fiefdom by fiat.
ePlaya is filled run by burners, some of whom, I'm sure, are upset with how this is turning out. They don't know any more than we do about the inner workings of the Borg. The Burning Man is almost entirely run by volunteers and I bet there are a lot of volunteers who are really pissed off right now. The Borg I'm talking about is the very small group that gets paid for this little cult. They don't release any numbers but the event happens because of the millions of man hours by thousands of dedicated and talented volunteers every year. Those volunteers probably won't be busting their asses quite so hard this year if they can't hunt down tickets until July....
The tone of the mods on here would suggest otherwise.

I know they are volunteers and dedicate their time and effort to running this online community, but their responses in the forums have all been an attempt to whitewash the problem. It's been a textbook example of poor communications and disastrous PR in the face of calamity.

Thanks. Love you too.

(Actually, I'd probably like you, at minimum).

The mods don't have any control over or input into the Ticket procedures; all we can do is share info as best we can, delete links to scalping, discourage personal attacks, and give our own personal opinions (which vary, on this matter). Etc. Not all the mods even have tickets. If there's anything we (probably) agree on however, mod-by-mod, it's that outright panic is fairly worthless.

I don't believe I've made promises to anyone. I hope not. I personally am reserving judgment 'til after STEP and the Open Sale, to see how it shakes out.

Galaxo Magic wrote:
anyone wrote:
The tone of the mods on here would suggest otherwise.
The tone of the mods gives the impression they had tickets secured, not having to deal with the holy hell of a lottery.....

Not true. Mods have had to enter the lottery.

Berberis · Post by **Berberis** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:05 pm

I wish I'd read the terms and conditions at the time I registered more closely. Looking at available information now, I think the mechanics of ticket sales may have been changed since the JRS where they were announced (volume 16 issue 5). Specifically, I don't see any mention of a 10k, 15k, 15k distribution of tickets across tiers on the main ticket page (which admittedly has changed since registration closed), the ticket FAQ, or the JRS after issue 8 (3 days prior to registration). The main ticket page and the ticket FAQ are copied (with some editing) from JRS 16:5.

I've been complaining to my friends for the last couple of weeks about tiers not making any sense this year. The rationale that people who could afford it had the option to pay more (and leave lower priced tickets for those who really need them) didn't hold up. People who could pay $390, but got drawn for one of 10,000 $240 tickets would not have the option of paying more (although there was the option to donate to BRAF et al.), and would crowd out the people who could only pay $240. I didn't read the current ticket FAQ, which adds this section not in JRS 16:5

Q: Now that it's random who gets a ticket from a given pricing tier, why have tiers at all?
A: In the previous first-come first-served system, it was essentially random whether you'd be able to acquire a lower tier ticket, because more buyers hit the system at the same time than there were low-priced tickets available, so your chances depended on when you happened to get into the queue, whether you could stick around your computer waiting to get through the queue, whether your browser kept its connection, etc. Even then, though those who could afford more had the option to aim for lower prices, many still opted to purchase at the highest tier if they could afford it. This system accomplishes essentially the same random distribution, without having to wait around at your computer for your turn to buy tickets.

What is that saying, anyway? It's not acknowledging crowding out people who could afford less, but it does talk about letting you give more money to Bmorg. Drop any mention of a set number of tickets at a given tier, and what happened?

Nobody got tickets for a lower tier. Everybody was in the drawing for "$240" tickets; if you won a "240" ticket, but were willing to pay 390, you paid 390. People willing to pay 240 are still getting crowded by people willing to pay 390, but they're not selling 10k tickets at 240. Pulling numbers out of my ass, but it could have ended up something like 3k@240, 5k@320, 32k@390. That's fair if I'd known that was how it was going to work up front; I can afford 390 but I'd really rather not pay that. I'd thought there'd be a 10/15/15 ticket distribution, which meant if I were to be selected for a ticket, I wouldn't necessarily be paying 390 for it.

Was there mention of a 10/15/15 distribution during registration? Did anybody pay less than the maximum they'd accepted? Did things change on the sly between the announcement in JRS (which lots of people read) and actual registration (when people may have clicked through terms and conditions and would be less likely to notice an omission which invalidated an expectation they had about the process)

vargaso · Post by **vargaso** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:19 pm

One member of our camp entered at the highest tier and got her two tickets at the $240 level. The kicker: she's not even sure if she's going, ha! I hope she does, very cool person. Anyway, everyone else I know of was awarded the ticket at the highest level they entered.

BBadger · Post by **BBadger** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:27 pm

Vargaso, can you please ask your camp-mate to confirm that the registration confirmation email said she bid higher than what she actually won? I just want to make sure.

If there are multiple cases of people receiving lower-priced tickets after missing higher tiers then this could just be a statistical anomaly. However, if tier-exclusion is a pattern it has some very important consequences for the lottery, all its applicants, and the nature of future lotteries. It would also explain a lot of things we're seeing.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:04 pm

BBadger wrote:Vargaso, can you please ask your camp-mate to confirm that the registration confirmation email said she bid higher than what she actually won? I just want to make sure.

If there are multiple cases of people receiving lower-priced tickets after missing higher tiers then this could just be a statistical anomaly. However, if tier-exclusion is a pattern it has some very important consequences for the lottery, all its applicants, and the nature of future lotteries. It would also explain a lot of things we're seeing.

There were a few that got lower tier tic's mentioned on (I believe ) the I got a ticket awarded thread..

juanita · Post by **juanita** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:30 pm

One of my camp mates, that does not participate here on ePlaya, bid for one ticket at the $390 tier and received a $240 ticket. She was flabbergasted, but grateful, as her finances are tight (just like everybody else's).

Berberis · Post by **Berberis** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:11 pm

unjonharley wrote: There were a few that got lower tier tic's mentioned on (I believe ) the I got a ticket awarded thread..

I'm pretty sure I looked through every post in that thread (there were a lot of them, and I was skimming) and didn't see anybody directly state they had received lower tier tickets. There was some confusion about whether tier 1 was cheap or expensive, and a quasi-official source quoted as stating that the lowest tier would be drawn first. I also saw BBadger reasoning that the highest tier was drawn first and some hypothetical math. I can't find any official statement that lowest tier would be drawn first, and highest first seems like a more plausible scenario in light of how few people got lower tier tickets.. Even so, 0 votes in the thread's opening poll for lower tier tickets, and just two second-hand reports seems like a statistical anomaly.

Wrath · Post by **Wrath** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:25 pm

The votes were rigged by the bots at eBay! The numbers just don't add up!

usurpedus · Post by **usurpedus** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:45 pm

this is bananas

katiiis13 · Post by **katiiis13** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:14 am

We bid for 2 tickets at $320 (and assumed also bid for $240). We received 2 tickets at $320.

Raymaker · Post by **Raymaker** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:32 am

Savannah wrote:Not true. Mods have had to enter the lottery.

Yes but as a mod would you not agree that the probability of getting your tickets at the end of the day are higher, especially after the post in the BM blog implying that there will be an effort to divert outstanding tickets to main art and theme camp members?

lemur · Post by **lemur** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:44 am

how many times will the moderation team have to say that they dont get preferential treatment in regards to tickets before people will believe them ?

most volunteers get no chance at a gift ticket
most volunteers get no chance at a 'staff priced' ticket

Q: Do I get a free ticket if I volunteer?

A: That's perhaps the most common question. Here is the scoop: receiving a ticket in exchange for volunteering is incredibly rare. If it does occur it usually applies to people who work with-in the organization year-round as volunteers and are highly accountable. These are not roles that are easy to jump into. Generally a person will volunteer with a group for a while, sometimes years. Then they become a team leader or more involved. Ticket sales are Burning Man's primary source of revenue. There is no corporate sponsorship of the event. Ticket sale dollars help pay for fixed costs of putting on the event, including port-a-potties, emergency services, land-use permit fees, and building materials. It is best not to expect a free ticket for any volunteer work you do. Ask around, most people feel that volunteering only brings you closer to the Burning Man community, it enhances your experience there, and that alone is enough of a reward.

http://www.burningman.com/participate/v ... faq.html#h

Raymaker · Post by **Raymaker** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:09 am

lemur wrote:how many times will the moderation team have to say that they dont get preferential treatment in regards to tickets before people will believe them ?

This year is an anomaly don't you think? There has never been such a situation before that 'main players' had no chance of getting a ticket, even last year with the sellout, the situation at the end of the day wasn't so bad that those who 'had to be there' got there. I said in another thread, although it's not 'fair', there is some common sense in BMorg, being unfair and directing as many tickets as they can now do in the direction of those art and theme camps that need them. Don't you think it's reasonable that this may happen now?

BBadger · Post by **BBadger** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:19 am

Raymaker wrote:
Savannah wrote:Not true. Mods have had to enter the lottery.
Yes but as a mod would you not agree that the probability of getting your tickets at the end of the day are higher, especially after the post in the BM blog implying that there will be an effort to divert outstanding tickets to main art and theme camp members?

GUYS STOP WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING. THE CONNECTION HAS BEEN MADE.

Diverting tickets to main art and theme camp members AUTOMATICALLY IMPLIES that mods have a much higher probability of being slipped free tickets by the powers that be.

It's like one of those fucking INVESTMENT FIRM COMMERCIALS where masturbation statistics in Taipei in conjunction with trade-winds near South Carolina are a correlating factor in how Facebook's new "H8 Button" contributes to onion futures in New Delhi. THE DATA HAS BEEN MINED. THE CONNECTION HAS BEEN MADE.

Post by **AntiM** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:09 am

Raymaker wrote:
lemur wrote:how many times will the moderation team have to say that they dont get preferential treatment in regards to tickets before people will believe them ?
This year is an anomaly don't you think? There has never been such a situation before that 'main players' had no chance of getting a ticket, even last year with the sellout, the situation at the end of the day wasn't so bad that those who 'had to be there' got there. I said in another thread, although it's not 'fair', there is some common sense in BMorg, being unfair and directing as many tickets as they can now do in the direction of those art and theme camps that need them. Don't you think it's reasonable that this may happen now?

I was a mod for six years, and retired at seven years. In those six years, I received a gift ticket twice out of the blue. Both times, I still had a full price ticket in hand, enabling me to gift it out. Once I got a gift ticket directly from a BMORG member because there was a discrepancy with my fire conclave ticket (fuel staff) and I had already given away the full priced ticket I had purchased at the start of the year. Ended up gifting the gift ticket out too.

So while there is a possibility of mods getting a gift ticket, it is random chance, and there's less than a 50/50 chance it happens. Not one of the mods counts on a ticket. They buy them, full price. A gift ticket is always a pleasant surprise.

Post by **Sham** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:11 am

I entered the lottery for 2 tickets and got a Dear John email wishing me luck finding a ticket.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:46 am

One of the "rangers" in our area (team lead) did'nt get a ticket even though he's a veteran burner and been a ranger for years.

This confused me cause I thought volenteers for infrastructure got free tickets.

What am I missing?

lemur · Post by **lemur** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:56 am

FIGJAM wrote:One of the "rangers" in our area (team lead) did'nt get a ticket even though he's a veteran burner and been a ranger for years.

This confused me cause I thought volenteers for infrastructure got free tickets.

What am I missing?

some departments dont give volunteers tickets at all
some departments only give tickets for volunteers working certain amounts of shifts
some departments only give tickets to 'management'
some departments.. i dont know what they do

i believe the call is made by whomever is running the dept.. at least, it seems like they decide how that resource is allocated,..if at all, just like how some groups allocate resources of the commissary differently ..

it all costs something!

Did you win tickets for less than your Max bid?

Did you get a ticket lower than your max bid?

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