Class Action
Class Action
At a high level I see a large number of potentially damaged people and promises made and broken by an organization making a profit. Is there a way to hold the organization accountable? How do we gain transparency and open access to records and decision makers? What are the bounds for reasonable expectations of people creating camps and art or just attending? Do we have faith that they will rectify the present situation or create a solution that works for next year? How do we effectively apply pressure to see that these concerns are addressed?
I'm just floating an idea here. Perhaps playing devil's community advocate. What about a class action lawsuit?
Promises made:
"Most everyone who wants a ticket will be able to get one"
"This system should help weed out scalpers from the equation"
Damages:
Camps and individuals who have put money into the event will effectively loose this year's value on that investment if they cannot attend
Time spent and potentially wasted has monetary value
Folks attending have a reasonable expectation of art and theme camp presence. Those things may not materialize in the expected abundance thus devaluing the experience
Folks who pay inflated prices to scalpers and other individuals are harmed to effect of the difference they paid from face value
Potential Consequences:
Discovery may open up and expose the internal workings, people, and decision making processes at least to "experts" for examination
Effective pressure may be applied to proper due diligence for next year's process. No experimentation at the expense of the community
Profit from a failed system may be reduced or eliminated
The key idea is that even if lost such an action would drive home the seriousness and responsibility for creating a new process that minimizes harm to the community. They'll need to put money and time into this process if only to protect themselves from future legal action.
Would this be an interesting application of Lawyers for Burners?
Just tossing the idea out there. Flame on.
I'm just floating an idea here. Perhaps playing devil's community advocate. What about a class action lawsuit?
Promises made:
"Most everyone who wants a ticket will be able to get one"
"This system should help weed out scalpers from the equation"
Damages:
Camps and individuals who have put money into the event will effectively loose this year's value on that investment if they cannot attend
Time spent and potentially wasted has monetary value
Folks attending have a reasonable expectation of art and theme camp presence. Those things may not materialize in the expected abundance thus devaluing the experience
Folks who pay inflated prices to scalpers and other individuals are harmed to effect of the difference they paid from face value
Potential Consequences:
Discovery may open up and expose the internal workings, people, and decision making processes at least to "experts" for examination
Effective pressure may be applied to proper due diligence for next year's process. No experimentation at the expense of the community
Profit from a failed system may be reduced or eliminated
The key idea is that even if lost such an action would drive home the seriousness and responsibility for creating a new process that minimizes harm to the community. They'll need to put money and time into this process if only to protect themselves from future legal action.
Would this be an interesting application of Lawyers for Burners?
Just tossing the idea out there. Flame on.
- maryanimal
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Re: Class Action
*douses the flame with a fire truck hose*
Sometimes I'm confused by what I think is really obvious. But what I think is really obvious obviously isn't obvious.
- Lassen Forge
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Re: Classless Action
Um... I thought the idea was to save the burn, not kill it off...
What it sounds like to me... is a good way for some attorney (who are the only real beneficiaries and benefactors of a class action suit) to make his fortune at the expense of the event . And that's either way it goes. Serious.
Plus... You think the org ain't been sued before?
It's like... I dunno... being stranded on an island having one pigeon and one piece of paper, tying a "rescue me" note to the leg of a pigeon, then using the note to start the fire to barbecue the pigeon.
I say this as a burner - your idea sucks. Have a nice day.
(Hey, anyone got some matches?? Seems someone opened a fire hydrant...)
What it sounds like to me... is a good way for some attorney (who are the only real beneficiaries and benefactors of a class action suit) to make his fortune at the expense of the event . And that's either way it goes. Serious.
Plus... You think the org ain't been sued before?
It's like... I dunno... being stranded on an island having one pigeon and one piece of paper, tying a "rescue me" note to the leg of a pigeon, then using the note to start the fire to barbecue the pigeon.
I say this as a burner - your idea sucks. Have a nice day.
(Hey, anyone got some matches?? Seems someone opened a fire hydrant...)
- arthur5005
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Re: Class Action

As if this whole thing wasn't already extremely antagonizing, lets throw lawyers into the mix, that'll fix things!
*face palm*
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Re: Class Action
placidus wrote:At a high level I see a large number of potentially damaged people and promises made and broken by an organization making a profit. Is there a way to hold the organization accountable?
blarg blah blah bleeerg derpa derp derp.
You have got to be fucking kidding. Put your energy into something positive, start your own event.
Re: Class Action
As a lawyer, I can't even begin to start with the ways this is misguided, wrong, etc.
It reminds me of the stories of people wanting to sue because they did get the birthday present they were hoping for.
As a human being I just have to start by saying you should be grateful that so many people put the effort they do into the Burning Man event and that you have in the past, and may again in the future have the opportunity to participate in the event.
It reminds me of the stories of people wanting to sue because they did get the birthday present they were hoping for.
As a human being I just have to start by saying you should be grateful that so many people put the effort they do into the Burning Man event and that you have in the past, and may again in the future have the opportunity to participate in the event.
- graidawg
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Re: Class Action
+1maryanimal wrote:*douses the flame with a fire truck hose*
this is exactly the kind of bullshit the british detest about americansplacidus wrote:At a high level I see a large number of potentially damaged people and promises made and broken by an organization making a profit. Is there a way to hold the organization accountable? How do we gain transparency and open access to records and decision makers? What are the bounds for reasonable expectations of people creating camps and art or just attending? Do we have faith that they will rectify the present situation or create a solution that works for next year? How do we effectively apply pressure to see that these concerns are addressed?
I'm just floating an idea here. Perhaps playing devil's community advocate. What about a class action lawsuit?
Promises made:
"Most everyone who wants a ticket will be able to get one"
"This system should help weed out scalpers from the equation"
Damages:
Camps and individuals who have put money into the event will effectively loose this year's value on that investment if they cannot attend
Time spent and potentially wasted has monetary value
Folks attending have a reasonable expectation of art and theme camp presence. Those things may not materialize in the expected abundance thus devaluing the experience
Folks who pay inflated prices to scalpers and other individuals are harmed to effect of the difference they paid from face value
Potential Consequences:
Discovery may open up and expose the internal workings, people, and decision making processes at least to "experts" for examination
Effective pressure may be applied to proper due diligence for next year's process. No experimentation at the expense of the community
Profit from a failed system may be reduced or eliminated
The key idea is that even if lost such an action would drive home the seriousness and responsibility for creating a new process that minimizes harm to the community. They'll need to put money and time into this process if only to protect themselves from future legal action.
Would this be an interesting application of Lawyers for Burners?
Just tossing the idea out there. Flame on.
FREE THE SHERPAS
Burners with torches is right and natural and just.-fishy.
CATCH AND RELEASE.
Burners with torches is right and natural and just.-fishy.
CATCH AND RELEASE.
Re: Class Action
wait.. did i read that right?inog wrote:As a lawyer, I can't even begin to start with the ways this is misguided, wrong, etc.
It reminds me of the stories of people wanting to sue because they did get the birthday present they were hoping for.
As a human being I just have to start by saying you should be grateful that so many people put the effort they do into the Burning Man event and that you have in the past, and may again in the future have the opportunity to participate in the event.
are you implying lawyers arent humans ?
like for realsies ?
Don't link to anything here!
Re: Classless Action
Exactly.. but then throwing away the cooked pigeon because you can't find any salt....Bay Bridge Sue wrote:
It's like... I dunno... being stranded on an island having one pigeon and one piece of paper, tying a "rescue me" note to the leg of a pigeon, then using the note to start the fire to barbecue the pigeon.
- ZaphodBurner
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Re: Class Action
Yeahbut, you just created the account and this is your first post. How about playing just plain old -advocate- for awhile before coming in and suggesting lawsuits that jeopardize the whole event? I mean, we're all pissed, but, fucking lawsuits?!placidus wrote: Perhaps playing devil's community advocate.
Most of us haven't invested anything yet. Most people aren't committing to spending time and money until they get a ticket. So, it hurts the city as much as it hurts the camps and individuals.Damages:
Camps and individuals who have put money into the event will effectively loose this year's value on that investment if they cannot attend
...
I don't give two shits about people who pay inflated prices to scalpers. They gamed the system so fuck 'em. Might as well expect sympathy for a john because his prostitute overcharges him.placidus wrote: Folks who pay inflated prices to scalpers and other individuals are harmed to effect of the difference they paid from face value
Let's try to fix this problem without getting lawyers involved. It's bad enough that it already requires VISA, and that the ticketing system is a subsidiary of eBay. In fact, default-world shenanigans are what fucked it all up in the first place.
"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace
- thisisthatwhichis
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Re: Class Action
Oh, JESUS!!!...
And the Conspiracy theory threads haven't even started to take hold yet......
And the Conspiracy theory threads haven't even started to take hold yet......

TITWI
To be on the wire is life. The rest is waiting.
It's show time, folks.....Joe Gideon
To be on the wire is life. The rest is waiting.
It's show time, folks.....Joe Gideon
Re: Class Action
I am not sure you understand the proper meaning of the word "implying." I am sure you are displaying a lack of basic logic and reading skills.lemur wrote:wait.. did i read that right?inog wrote:As a lawyer, I can't even begin to start with the ways this is misguided, wrong, etc.
It reminds me of the stories of people wanting to sue because they did get the birthday present they were hoping for.
As a human being I just have to start by saying you should be grateful that so many people put the effort they do into the Burning Man event and that you have in the past, and may again in the future have the opportunity to participate in the event.
are you implying lawyers arent humans ?
like for realsies ?
- Lassen Forge
- Posts: 5320
- Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:35 pm
- Location: Where it's always... Wednesday. Don't lose your head over it.
Still a Classless Action
S-H-H-H-H... we're not supposed to alk-tay about the Artians-may buying all the Ickets-tay with their eekret-say electron beam eapons-way...thisisthatwhichis wrote:Oh, JESUS!!!...
And the Conspiracy theory threads haven't even started to take hold yet......
Re: Class Action
As the son of a lawyer, I could support the argument that they're not.lemur wrote:wait.. did i read that right?inog wrote:As a lawyer, I can't even begin to start with the ways this is misguided, wrong, etc.
It reminds me of the stories of people wanting to sue because they did get the birthday present they were hoping for.
As a human being I just have to start by saying you should be grateful that so many people put the effort they do into the Burning Man event and that you have in the past, and may again in the future have the opportunity to participate in the event.
are you implying lawyers arent humans ?
like for realsies ?
Re: Still a Classless Action
Thank you for the laugh Sue! I needed it just now!Bay Bridge Sue wrote:
S-H-H-H-H... we're not supposed to alk-tay about the Artians-may buying all the Ickets-tay with their eekret-say electron beam eapons-way...
In dust we trust.
Re: Class Action
maybe this ?inog wrote:I am not sure you understand the proper meaning of the word "implying." I am sure you are displaying a lack of basic logic and reading skills.lemur wrote:wait.. did i read that right?inog wrote:As a lawyer, I can't even begin to start with the ways this is misguided, wrong, etc.
It reminds me of the stories of people wanting to sue because they did get the birthday present they were hoping for.
As a human being I just have to start by saying you should be grateful that so many people put the effort they do into the Burning Man event and that you have in the past, and may again in the future have the opportunity to participate in the event.
are you implying lawyers arent humans ?
like for realsies ?
i guess i could be wrong and the jokes on me........
Don't link to anything here!
Re: Class Action
They'd be more likely to see a suit if they were to recall the lottery and do it over by those whose ticket awards were cancelled. Scalpers might prove damages, lost income. I'm not saying those chances are high, mind you, because I'm not the camp attorney, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't even consider taking something like this on.
So now Llc has to lay low, try to do damage control, stem the tide of anger that's coming at it, and try to steer clear of frivolous suits.
Growing up my father once said of a stupid act I'd done as I was lamenting the consequences, "Son, you made yourself a shit sandwich, and now you've got to eat it." We'll see how much shit the Llc eats. I don't think it's in the form of a suit. It's in the form of lost trust and respect.
So now Llc has to lay low, try to do damage control, stem the tide of anger that's coming at it, and try to steer clear of frivolous suits.
Growing up my father once said of a stupid act I'd done as I was lamenting the consequences, "Son, you made yourself a shit sandwich, and now you've got to eat it." We'll see how much shit the Llc eats. I don't think it's in the form of a suit. It's in the form of lost trust and respect.
The road of life is littered with flat squirrels who couldn't decide.
- This Woman
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Re: Class Action
I'm sure money has already been lost. I just saw a post on another thread from some off continent folks (i forget the country) that already paid for motorhome and plane tickets, but did not get their lottery tickets. It remains to be seen if their money is actually lost because they will keep trying for the tickets...but you know they are not alone. similarly, the theme camps do spend money all year long, and that's not news. Money will be lost, make no mistake.
This should in no way, shape or form be seen as me advocating a class action suit. I am as repulsed by that idea as most commenting here.
This should in no way, shape or form be seen as me advocating a class action suit. I am as repulsed by that idea as most commenting here.
The Liver's End ~ Where the locals go.
Re: Class Action
I'll admit that I'm frustrated, that I've lost sleep and money and just a little bit of sanity, but dude SEEK AID. You're balls are way to big if at any time this would be a unqualified good idea. You need a team of physicians to examine them, prod them a bit, potentially bleed some of the moxie from your greatly expanded scrotum. Seriously, that's a pair of cajones!!


-- Inspire or empower your neighbor, the rest is a waste of precious time
- Sham
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Re: Class Action
I just received a settlement check from an organized class action suit. After all the lawyers, expenses and other fees were paid, the check that came via U.S. Mail was for 5 cents. While I never cashed the check, I called the 800 number and spent an hour on the phone with the rep. having her explain how they came up with this number.
No offense to the lawyers here, but they are the only ones who make money on a class action law suit.
No offense to the lawyers here, but they are the only ones who make money on a class action law suit.
- ygmir
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Re: Class Action
I can help............maryanimal wrote:*douses the flame with a fire truck hose*
YGMIR
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- VultureChow
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Re: Class Action
Shambala wrote:I just received a settlement check from an organized class action suit. After all the lawyers, expenses and other fees were paid, the check that came via U.S. Mail was for 5 cents. While I never cashed the check, I called the 800 number and spent an hour on the phone with the rep. having her explain how they came up with this number.
No offense to the lawyers here, but they are the only ones who make money on a class action law suit.
Yeah... Much better to file in small claims court. Half the time the big guys don't bother to send someone. $15 in NJ. Maximum reward $3000.
We even use it in our business.
Sic Semper Spectatores
Re: Class Action
What the actual fuck
Re: Class Action
Jesus fucking Christ I hope this is a troll post and not a genuine proposal.... If so, please self-immolate and try again next lifetime....
Re: Class Action
Oh, I know I'm going to get it, but here goes:
I signed up as a willing participant in a lottery system that made no promise to me to bring any of my expectations to reality. I signed up for the "lottery" and didn't have to pay a dime toward winning before I won. (Sorry, yes, I did receive 2 tickets for myself and my best friend, and her submission was denied for her daughter and her friend. We only applied twice for a total of 4 in our party, and weirdly 50% of us got tickets.) Thinking I was MISS-LUCKY, I went to my local Circle K and bought a Powerball lottery ticket. But, I had to pay $2.00 up front to take my chance at winning the jackpot. I didn't win. Am I contemplating suing my state's lottery board on the grounds of false advertising? No. Do I want my money back because I did not win the $8.5 million dollar jackpot? No. It was a chance I took.
lot·ter·y /ˈlɒtəri/ Show Spelled[lot-uh-ree] Show IPA
noun, plural -ter·ies.
1. a gambling game or method of raising money, as for some public charitable purpose, in which a large number of tickets are sold and a drawing is held for certain prizes.
2. any scheme for the distribution of prizes by chance.
3. any happening or process that is or appears to be determined by chance: to look upon life as a lottery
I signed up as a willing participant in a lottery system that made no promise to me to bring any of my expectations to reality. I signed up for the "lottery" and didn't have to pay a dime toward winning before I won. (Sorry, yes, I did receive 2 tickets for myself and my best friend, and her submission was denied for her daughter and her friend. We only applied twice for a total of 4 in our party, and weirdly 50% of us got tickets.) Thinking I was MISS-LUCKY, I went to my local Circle K and bought a Powerball lottery ticket. But, I had to pay $2.00 up front to take my chance at winning the jackpot. I didn't win. Am I contemplating suing my state's lottery board on the grounds of false advertising? No. Do I want my money back because I did not win the $8.5 million dollar jackpot? No. It was a chance I took.
lot·ter·y /ˈlɒtəri/ Show Spelled[lot-uh-ree] Show IPA
noun, plural -ter·ies.
1. a gambling game or method of raising money, as for some public charitable purpose, in which a large number of tickets are sold and a drawing is held for certain prizes.
2. any scheme for the distribution of prizes by chance.
3. any happening or process that is or appears to be determined by chance: to look upon life as a lottery
- ygmir
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Re: Class Action
nasal aspiration of tonic water.........thanks Alt12.................hhahahahaaaalt12 wrote:Jesus fucking Christ I hope this is a troll post and not a genuine proposal.... If so, please self-immolate and try again next lifetime....
YGMIR
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- This Woman
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Re: Class Action
inog, do you think Palicidus (who has only posted once) might be a lawyer looking to make some money? Or would lawyers run from such a thing? My knowledge of class action suits is scant. I think lawyers are the only ones that make any money and that they are only otherwise useful when they can bring about things like policy changes, safety procedures and the like - not about monetary profit.
The Liver's End ~ Where the locals go.
Re: Class Action
Yup, agreed 100% - wrong in so many ways AND mean spirited, spiteful, complete misuse of the legal system:inog wrote:As a lawyer, I can't even begin to start with the ways this is misguided, wrong, etc.
It reminds me of the stories of people wanting to sue because they did get the birthday present they were hoping for.
As a human being I just have to start by saying you should be grateful that so many people put the effort they do into the Burning Man event and that you have in the past, and may again in the future have the opportunity to participate in the event.
One of the things I hate most about the practice of civil law are the people who just try to use it as a weapon to punish someone - or think they have hit the lawsuit lottery. How in the bloody hell do you think that so many have been SO damaged as to make a suit viable??? Oh darn, they didn't get to go on the vacation they planned on????? Oh, they spent money without knowing they could get in????
Ok, yes, the ticketing problems this year really suck. That does not mean I want to create more problems for an event I care a lot about and have spent years volunteering for. That is the only possible joy you would get out of such a suit. Take it somewhere else and play with it, Newbie. If such a suit ever saw the light of day, I, for one, would be very happy to volunteer to assist in it's defense - and many more like me. You are biting off way more than you want to chew. If you need to right a wrong, go to Syria.
Ut ballista es interdico, tantum interdico mos fui ballista.
- theCryptofishist
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Re: Class Action
On top of everything else... Just because they are an llc doesn't mean that they are making a profit. The money goes to making the party happen. I do not see any evidence that there is some overseas bank account collecting box tops from over eager burners.placidus wrote:At a high level I see a large number of potentially damaged people and promises made and broken by an organization making a profit.
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri