What STEP is Designed to Do

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AntiM
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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by AntiM » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:59 am

Raymaker wrote:
lemur wrote:i predict that raymaker is gonna get a ticket to burning man 2012 and have the best time EVER!!!!
Well I would have loved for that to happen, but this whole situation is making me believe that even if I got a ticket, that by the time I arrive, and partly due to my mental state, I will be in a negative state of mind about the whole event, so for my own peace of mind I should really consider that this year is not for me. I have started to put together an alternative plan now, which is getting more attractive by the day, an idea that is exciting me, the complete opposite to going to BM this year. I think this year I will organise a road trip with my partner and visit American Land Art sites, such as the Roden Crater Project, Spiral Jetty and Double Negative! 8)

Sometimes a hiatus is a good thing.

I suggest Summer Solstice at the Sun Tunnels if you can make it. Not the right time frame, but awesome.

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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by Raymaker » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:34 am

lemur wrote:[THIS SPACE RESERVED FOR PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY WANT TO HAVE A GOOD TIME]
I agree with that completely, that why it will be wrong for me to come. So I spoke with my partner and we have decided to leave this year to all those people who will have an amazing time out there.

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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by Raymaker » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:40 am

AntiM wrote:I suggest Summer Solstice at the Sun Tunnels if you can make it. Not the right time frame, but awesome.
Sun Tunnels is on our list too, we are discovering so much to see out there each day, so far we have worked out that the whole driving time is 4 and half days, so 16 days would be 7 hours driving a day, which may be too much as only my partner drives, so we will have to be more selective where we go.

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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by AntiM » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:44 am

Raymaker wrote:
AntiM wrote:I suggest Summer Solstice at the Sun Tunnels if you can make it. Not the right time frame, but awesome.
Sun Tunnels is on our list too, we are discovering so much to see out there each day, so far we have worked out that the whole driving time is 4 and half days, so 16 days would be 7 hours driving a day, which may be too much as only my partner drives, so we will have to be more selective where we go.

Yeah, drive a day, rest a day works well if you actually want to see stuff. If you meander into southern Utah, I also recommend Valley of the Gods.

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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:42 am

Bexx wrote:From the email I got.. It said those that didn't get tix from the lottery..will have first crack at the STEP tix.

Now, I would like to know what the numbers are.. On how many people entered the lottery, didn't get picked.. And will get put into STEP. any idea on the %?
No. There are some funny equations out there in the other threads, but they are based on less than solid data.
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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:44 am

Ataraxist wrote:Some one remind me, whats to stop scalpers from buying the STEP tickets?
Nothing. But if they aren't able to sell at a mark up, then they have an albatross. Perhaps some of the same "scrubbing" will happen as happened in the main sale.
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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by theCryptofishist » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:51 am

Also, the long time between now and "ticket fulfillment". People might prefer to buy through STEP and get a ticket from the llc rather than buy a phantom ticket.
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by Trishntek » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:24 am

I just took a look at StubHub since I've never visited it before, and notice they add a 10% service fee. I am curious how they can guarantee the sale of tickets that do not exist.

Anyway,,,, it is ridiculous what is listed there and with the event listed to begin at 12PM instead of AM, I am thinking there is BOGUS written at the top of the main page where 29 listings exist.

I sure wouldn't use a source which prohibits direct communication with the seller and seems to enable scalping and shamelessly profits from it.
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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by The CO » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:31 am

Raymaker wrote:I predict that there will be no tickets in STEP. I'd be happy if this prediction is wrong, but I doubt it.

I'm willing to lay money on that. $1000 says you're prediction is incorrect.
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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by Ataraxist » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:05 pm

So someone who buys a ticket in step doesn't actually receive the ticket? If a hypothetical legion of scalpers goes out and buys every hypothetical ticket from STEP, they would hypothetically have all the available tickets. Once in hand they could sell them outside of the STEP program, yes?
As of right now, the group of vets I intended to follow have all bailed due to lack o tickets, I am campless with 0 experience. Let me know if you need an extra pair of hands. :)

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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by Trishntek » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:15 pm

Ataraxist wrote:So someone who buys a ticket in step doesn't actually receive the ticket? If a hypothetical legion of scalpers goes out and buys every hypothetical ticket from STEP, they would hypothetically have all the available tickets. Once in hand they could sell them outside of the STEP program, yes?
My understanding of STEP is, yes you would receive the actual ticket at Will Call. Why would scalpers have any better chance than anyone else to purchase tix? And guess what? They would NOT have them "in hand" any more than anyone else.
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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by Ataraxist » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:36 pm

Trishntek wrote:
Ataraxist wrote:So someone who buys a ticket in step doesn't actually receive the ticket? If a hypothetical legion of scalpers goes out and buys every hypothetical ticket from STEP, they would hypothetically have all the available tickets. Once in hand they could sell them outside of the STEP program, yes?
My understanding of STEP is, yes you would receive the actual ticket at Will Call. Why would scalpers have any better chance than anyone else to purchase tix? And guess what? They would NOT have them "in hand" any more than anyone else.
Thanks for the clarification, that makes MUCH more sense now.
Step is sounding pretty good to me...
As of right now, the group of vets I intended to follow have all bailed due to lack o tickets, I am campless with 0 experience. Let me know if you need an extra pair of hands. :)

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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by Pop_Tart » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:18 pm

I know the details aren't going to be released until 2/22/12, so there is no official answer to this question, but maybe one of you can theorize...

Someone returns their ticket back to the LLC via Step. Does the LLC then pick a lottery loser at random to receive that ticket using the same criteria of the lottery?

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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by forty_eight » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:54 pm

^ At best, the people who didn't get awarded in the lottery will get an email to register for STEP and be somehow flagged for priority. But I imagine it would have to be random selection and credit card limits being available, etc (similar to main lottery).

I happen to be travelling on the 22nd, so I am a little anxious about that.

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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by packlet » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:34 pm

As I understand it, STEP is supposed to be a way for burners with EXTRA tickets (to re-distribute them safely.
Sounds like a good idea, EXCEPT that we're all pretty sure that there are very few, if any, EXTRA tickets out there.
The few I know of are already spoken for to fellow camp mates who were not as lucky in the lottery. Who could
possibly have extra tickets and NOT know someone to pass them on to? Very few, if any, is my guess...

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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:32 pm

Pop_Tart wrote:Someone returns their ticket back to the LLC via Step. Does the LLC then pick a lottery loser at random to receive that ticket using the same criteria of the lottery?
I don't think so. From the structure of the board, with the tickets to sell/tickets wanted spaces, I was thinking that was where the STEP was. Isn't the human mind's ability to draw inferences based on scant information something?
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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by socks » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:53 pm

The logic step is based on is that fellow burners bought all the tickets.Really come on.So we will all compete for the 12 tickets that get put into the step program.Oh happy day
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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by Turtleburp » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:24 pm

lemur wrote:[THIS SPACE RESERVED FOR PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY WANT TO HAVE A GOOD TIME]
Are you taking the piss!


How am I supposed to fit in there?!? You Sizist you!

Next thing you'll be mocking my poor vision... With your blurry picture no less.

It's funny how when I look for insults and slights really hard I find them everywhere...

I'm not suggesting that positive thinking will fix anything but being overtly negative will achieve nowt either - except be worse for your health!

I REALLY hope STEP works and until I see it fail will continue to be hopeful
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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by trilobyte » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:55 pm

I think of STEP (Secure Ticket Exchange Program) as a much needed piece of the puzzle, and it's something I wish had been around last summer. An easy, automated system to help facilitate doing the right thing.

Craig's List is all kinds of sketchy. eBay and Stubhub are cumbersome, have high fees (9-10%), and there's still some risk of getting a bogus ticket. The thing is secure in that they do the PCI compliant credit card thing, keep your identities secure, and the tickets being offered are verified/validated by Burning Man as being genuine Burning Man tickets. The other added benefit is tickets can be exchanged starting this month - no waiting until June for fulfillment or to be able to transfer will call orders. That lets the sellers put the money in their pockets and the buyers to get their ticket confirmations locked down sooner rather than later (and the actual ticket fulfillment happens in June, with everybody else).

It's an anonymous system in that would-be buyers get on the list (first-come first-serve, with main sale participants getting first crack), and then as tickets become available they go to the people in the queue. The signup list will be scrubbed to remove scalpers and scammers. Sellers offer up their tickets, and assuming that there's demand in the queue, they get paid. Full details on how it works will be coming on the 22nd.

I can't speak to anything that may have been removed since I didn't remove it, but if you have questions about an edited/moderated post you can either ask the individual who did it or me via PM. Generally speaking, because it's posted elsewhere on the internet doesn't necessarily mean it's something that can be posted on ePlaya.

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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by alt12 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:03 pm

Pop_Tart wrote:I know the details aren't going to be released until 2/22/12, so there is no official answer to this question, but maybe one of you can theorize...
Yes I know, don't you love just waiting and waiting and waiting to find out what's going to happen? Its like a 3 month long soap opera.... Tune in late March to find out about round #3 of ticket sales!

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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by lemur » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:20 pm

just imagine how bad itd be if they hadnt have spaced this stuff out... it was planned this way in november.. they surely might have guessed that they might have some shitstorm go down where theyd need a few weeks to figure out what to do..

theyve saved themselves some wiggle room!

if they had spilled all the beans in one go in january.. then people would probably be hoping for a long drawn out soap opera!
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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by Pop_Tart » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:22 pm

Thank you for the insider's viewpoint Trilobyte.

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Re: What STEP is Designed to Do

Post by alt12 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:53 pm

lemur wrote:just imagine how bad itd be if they hadnt have spaced this stuff out... it was planned this way in november.. they surely might have guessed that they might have some shitstorm go down where theyd need a few weeks to figure out what to do..

theyve saved themselves some wiggle room!

if they had spilled all the beans in one go in january.. then people would probably be hoping for a long drawn out soap opera!
Are you kidding me???? I would kill to have this already done with. I would love to know on day one, either I have a ticket or don't and can then go about trying scrounge one up if I don't. As it is, I have to wait for STEP and see if that pans out, wait till March for round 3, wait for tickets to actually get mailed in fucking June (are you kidding me?) to see once people actually have physical tickets in hand what they do with them.

And why do I have to do this (i.e. why can't I scrounge for a ticket now?) Because everyone is doing the same thing.

The scarcity clusterfuck that this process created (I don't want to hear about the excess demand, that is obvious and not what I'm referring to) has led people to quietly hold their tickets to see how things shake out. Because of the unknowns regarding these various steps, people are sitting on tickets. I know this from anecdotal evidence but also its common sense to anyone with any understanding of human psychology. If you had a highly valuable commodity that all of your friends wanted, and maybe you're dating some girl/guy and want to see if it works out before inviting them later in the year, or maybe your brother decides this year he finally wants to go, etc., would you just throw it back into STEP? Would you even tell your friends about it? You'd probably hold onto it as it might come in handy later and see what comes up... Maybe your best friend still can't get a ticket by July and you can hook him up but giving him the ticket now when he still has a chance through STEP/sale #3 is actually a waste....

Do you see what I am getting at? As long as there are more sequences to go, there is no incentive in giving up these tickets that people are sitting on. This system by its very nature incentivizes people holding onto tickets whether they need them or not for quite a long time. Ticket-holders are actually better-off by holding the ticket till after all the ticket liquidation processes have ended, it maximizes their options in an option-constrained environment.... Again, this just pushes everything out making it more difficult to pull off something at the event.... Its quite clear to me that any real clarity on the ticketing situation will not come until after sale #3... That would be fine if it were for BM2013. Unfortunately its for an event thats only a few months away at this point and requires months and months of planning for most sizable groups.

I think people are failing to appreciate the consequences of the various steps of this whole process given the supply/demand situation. And yes, some Game Theory expertise would really help here (as even Maid Marian acknowledged, even if you, Trilo, Jester, etc. don't)

Ok rant, over...

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