Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

[BBadger]

The regionals have been selling out for years now. I know our Utah burn approaches its cap frequently.

I stand corrected.

Its shameful on what i have been seeing on the eplaya.Burner v.s. Burner.The have's v.s. The have not's.The blame falls at the feet of BM.org for this Coup Fatal they have dealt to our burner community.So when we see tickets in mass show up for sale by the scalpers in June i am very sure BM.org will have another spin on that too.

The only "coup fatal" people are feeling now is the fact that in a fair distribution of tickets (not "have vs. have nots") tickets that does not respect camp divisions, rather than camps exercising their purchase power early and getting their tickets in groups. The old social order is broken down in the name of fairness, in order to fight scalpers who are far more capable in exploiting predictable ticket distribution systems.

And yet here you are, bitching and moaning about BMorg and scalpers. On one hand you complain that scalpers will be plaguing the community in June, but on another hand, you're complaining about the systems put into place to mitigate their effects (most of which haven't even been brought to bear). It's like those moronic unemployed French students who, on one hand protest for more jobs, but also want all the employment benefits and rights that lead to a lack of jobs.

BMorg can't win right? Anything they do, and think of doing, will bring fault. It doesn't matter if a solution has even been exercised. The mere fact that change has occurred, and that things could be potentially worse than they were in non-equivalent past situations is enough for people to bitch and moan about how things will play out. THAT is shameful. THAT is moronic. THAT is why some people never get promoted beyond the role of sheep that fear the lightning.

[bradtem]

Here's an interesting question:

What if the lottery system had allowed you to group your requests together with others, ie. the other members of your camp? And that this was done so that either your entire group got tickets, or none of you got tickets.

Your probability of going would still be the same in this system (turned out it was about 1 in 3.) It's just that everybody in your group would share the same fate. For those camps that lost it would of course be a big shock, the whole camp skipping a year and a serious challenge to fix that in the resale market if that was the plan.

Under the system used, each camp got about 1/3rd of its members, and is deciding whether to not go, or to see if it can get resale tickets for enough members to get large enough to go, but knowing that several will not come.

Of course, even if such a system were available it would not be mandatory. People could decide to group together in a lottery or go on their own. In fact, half the camp could join together and the other half go it alone -- it would be entirely up to each person and camp.

If that were available, would you have done it?

[Eric]

Its shameful on what i have been seeing on the eplaya.Burner v.s. Burner.The have's v.s. The have not's.

My personal opinion on this?

I couldn't agree more with the first of your statements- the Burner vs. Burner is getting ugly. Very ugly. I can't even talk with people I've camped with about it because it becomes a shouting match, and these are people who are friends. The fighting between Burners who don't actually know each-other is worse, far worse.

The second I see as more nuanced- more between people who think the Burn has been destroyed by this and people who admit it's going to be different, but that different doesn't have to equal "bad". There are "haves" and "have nots" on both sides- I've certainly seen people who have tickets but think the event is ruined, and I'm one of the ones who doesn't have a ticket but think it's just going to change.
(full disclosure: Mods are not automatically given tickets for our volunteering- while it has happened a couple times in the past I'm certainly not expecting it this year)

I think the hard part is recognizing that we've hit the point where so many people want to go to this amazing thing we've created in the desert that we can't all get in anymore. That's not the LLC's fault, that's not our fault. It's just that there are now more people wanting in than there are tickets.

[lemur]

Here's an interesting question:

What if the lottery system had allowed you to group your requests together with others, ie. the other members of your camp? And that this was done so that either your entire group got tickets, or none of you got tickets.

Your probability of going would still be the same in this system (turned out it was about 1 in 3.) It's just that everybody in your group would share the same fate. For those camps that lost it would of course be a big shock, the whole camp skipping a year and a serious challenge to fix that in the resale market if that was the plan.

Under the system used, each camp got about 1/3rd of its members, and is deciding whether to not go, or to see if it can get resale tickets for enough members to get large enough to go, but knowing that several will not come.

Of course, even if such a system were available it would not be mandatory. People could decide to group together in a lottery or go on their own. In fact, half the camp could join together and the other half go it alone -- it would be entirely up to each person and camp.

If that were available, would you have done it?

if the lottery allowed people to do that groups would be requesting blocks of 300 tickets, 100 tickets, theyd surely tend to round up. if they need 15 many would get 20, "just incase". i dont see this as being a great idea. considering that many of the people in those blocks likely are just.. whether its unpleasant to hear or not.. just hangers-on and not really vital to making the camp happen (though they may be vital as community members for those who do make the camp happen, and for that subcommunity to properly enjoy themselves).

if we are going to prioritize theme camps and the like i think we should be working to prioritize what those projects actually need to make their project happen more so than making sure every person in that subcommunity can come.. (we already see the LLC doing this when they prioritize the people needed to get-er-done in the early entry process)

i think its vital to make sure as many people get a chance to come,.. if we blow our load on just the theme camps.. who is gonna be there to enjoy the theme camps? (we need newcomers and non-theme campers too!!)

theres gotta be some middle ground where enough theme camps, mutant vehicles, art groups,etc..get to come (maybe not all 700+ camps, 300+ art projects 700+ mutant vehicles with 100% getting tickets) while also leaving room for the vital influx of new ideas and people in the form of newcomers and just regular participants showing up without any committed projects.... maybe we will see that happen in the next few years!

[quema del mono]

There's no doubt that a significant percentage of tickets were purchased by speculators and scalpers but how high a percentage? Since a CC # can only be used to purchase 2 tickets how are these supposed scalpers buying up 50% of the tickets? What is the source of these multiple cards? A "casual" speculator will use their own cards or those of family/friends and most likely attempt to purchase fewer than 10 tickets but a professional scalper would want to purchase much more than 10. Does a scalper have access to 20-50 credit cards or are they using pre-paid debit cards. Can a retailer (such as BMORG) determine if a particular CC # is from a pre-paid card? Would this be a way to get a rough estimate of how many tickets were requested in the lottery by professional scalpers? I'm asking a lot of questions because I (like everybody else here) don't have ANY answers and this is more of a stream of consciousness than reasoned analysis anyway...

[bradtem]

Yes. Since most venues use a variety of techniques like checking credit cards and addresses to block scalpers, serious scalping operations have access to many hundreds of credit cards and addresses. A typical way it is reported they do this is they have legions of recruits that they pay to buy tickets to events they are targeting. I don't know how much they pay, I suspect it's not that much. It's pretty easy money for the recruit, and not that expensive for the scalper.

I do not have any information on whether scalpers of this sort have targeted Burning Man.

[Savannah]

There's no doubt that a significant percentage of tickets were purchased by speculators and scalpers but how high a percentage? Since a CC # can only be used to purchase 2 tickets how are these supposed scalpers buying up 50% of the tickets? What is the source of these multiple cards? A "casual" speculator will use their own cards or those of family/friends and most likely attempt to purchase fewer than 10 tickets but a professional scalper would want to purchase much more than 10. Does a scalper have access to 20-50 credit cards or are they using pre-paid debit cards. Can a retailer (such as BMORG) determine if a particular CC # is from a pre-paid card? Would this be a way to get a rough estimate of how many tickets were requested in the lottery by professional scalpers? I'm asking a lot of questions because I (like everybody else here) don't have ANY answers and this is more of a stream of consciousness than reasoned analysis anyway...

Welcome to the board, quema del mono. (You can also post a thread in the "Introduce Yourself" forum, if you like.)

There's not a lot of info publicly shared about the Org's anti-scalper techniques. It aids scalpers in working around them.

[knowmad]

There's no doubt that a significant percentage of tickets were purchased by speculators and scalpers but how high a percentage? Since a CC # can only be used to purchase 2 tickets how are these supposed scalpers buying up 50% of the tickets? What is the source of these multiple cards? A "casual" speculator will use their own cards or those of family/friends and most likely attempt to purchase fewer than 10 tickets but a professional scalper would want to purchase much more than 10. Does a scalper have access to 20-50 credit cards or are they using pre-paid debit cards. Can a retailer (such as BMORG) determine if a particular CC # is from a pre-paid card? Would this be a way to get a rough estimate of how many tickets were requested in the lottery by professional scalpers? I'm asking a lot of questions because I (like everybody else here) don't have ANY answers and this is more of a stream of consciousness than reasoned analysis anyway...

Welcome to the board, quema del mono. (You can also post a thread in the "Introduce Yourself" forum, if you like.)

There's not a lot of info publicly shared about the Org's anti-scalper techniques. It aids scalpers in working around them.

[Stephendragonfly]

There are a lot of different kinds of scalpers out there. From opportunists who buy a two tickets, one for themselves and one to scalp for enough to cover their whole BM trip, to gang bangers, who use their gang to take advantage of economies of scale, to professional agencies who pay people minimum wage (or less) to man phones, computers, and creditcards the instant tickets go on sale. Its the big time pros who I suspect got most of the scalped tickets. These are the kind of guys currently listing eight tickets on Stubhub for $999 apiece (when nobody honest would have more than four). They are gambling on the perception of ticket scarcity. They gamed the lottery, and they would have gamed a first come first serve system as well. Gaming ticket sales is how these guys make make money. If they make a lot of money on Burning Man this year they will go berserk next year. To stop them now we need to hang together as a community and not pay more than face value for any ticket. The desperation and frustration displayed by of some people make that unlikely. Of Course BMorg could make the tickets non transferable or limit transferability, but this would constrain the value of radical inclusiveness. The problem with radical inclusiveness in ticket sales is that it includes people who only want to make money off of the event. In the end, Burning Man is now a victim of its own success, everybody who ever went and told anyone else how cool it was is at fault for its current level of popularity.

[5280MeV]

The problem with radical inclusiveness in ticket sales is that it includes people who only want to make money off of the event.

Perhaps the idea of "radical inclusion," when interpreted as such, is simply a bad principle.

What "radical inclusion" means to me - and what I aim to practice, independent of what the BMorg, the 20 year veterans, the virgins, or anyone else might think is this:

We are going to have a culture together, with music and art and feasts. But there is not going to be a VIP lounge, there is not going to be a sense of what it means to be a really cool burner. The aim is not to have a status. No matter if someone has a mohawk, is a millionaire accountant, knows all the lingo, barely speaks English, wears a Star Trek uniform all day, wears nothing, is a superstar DJ, works at a deli counter, is a pyrotechnic artist, is a gospel singer, can't sing but does anyway, quotes movies in an annoying way, or whatever - They are all one of the 'cool kids'. That to me is what it is supposed to be about.

But there simply have to be rules, there has to be a sense of civic duty, and there has to be some sense of a social agreement. All of the above things are cool. Being a violent alcoholic, getting drunk, and starting fights is not cool. Leaving behind a big mess is not cool. Walking around looking for people who appear vulnerable and harassing them until they break down is not cool. Vandalizing artwork is not cool. Profiting off Burning Man is not cool.

If you tolerate these things, then you can't have a community - because these things destroy a community. I'm not saying that you can't forgive, reform, or give second chances, but like it or not, in reality there are rules or there is a social breakdown.

Right now, there are no rules in the ticketing process, and there is a social breakdown.

Right now, fairness in ticketing has been interpreted as 'everybody gets the same thing'. Try applying such an interpretation to education - which I would expect we as a society would promote as something universal or 'radically inclusive'. What happens to the people that need special attention, that need something different? That need more time to understand a concept, or need more challenge to be stimulated?

Another interpretation of fairness is 'each according to their needs'. This means according to their needs as individuals, and the reciprocal needs of the community. If a collective wants to donate thousands of hours, tons of materials, and give an incredible gift to the community, then the collective effort needs to know in advance if they are or are not going to the event. Amazingly, this appears to me to be all that they are asking for - not money, not gift tickets, not freebies, just an answer.

At first, I thought that the lottery was fair, but only because it is fair to me. My plan is to make some wearable LED work, maybe volunteer to help an art project, and also take a couple of shifts with one of the departments. So I don't need to go to to Burning Man every year, I don't need advance notice. I can take my electronics and go to a regional, and try again in 2013. My camp is pretty minimal and DIY. They will miss me, I will miss them, but I will hopefully go another year.

I am a good candidate for a lottery system. I registered for my ticket, I signed up on the volunteer list, luck was with me this year, and I won. Had I lost, I was thinking about trying out Transformus.

Now I am holding a ticket like a sad clown, and what decimated project am I going to volunteer to help for an afternoon? To what wreckage of a collective do I send 20 bucks for a kickstarter? Sure, I am fine with reenacting an 'old style' burn - the man on haybales, dancing to some prerecorded DJ set on a battery powered stereo - I believe in making my own fun. But what about all those people who have been planning for months, working their asses off, and spending their hard earned money to do something grand FOR ME TO ENJOY?

Do I just forget about them? I don't know what to think right now. I'm bummed.

[bradtem]

If you can transfer a ticket via the STEP program or in any other way, you can scalp. Names or pictures on tickets don't stop scalping if you have some way to change the name. Sure, the transfer system can make you sign a declaration that you paid face value and sold at face value and put in all sorts of threats etc. but the reality is that when tickets are sold above face value, everybody knows what is going on. You might scare away a few folks, but people who buy from scalpers don't do it because they want to. They would much rather buy at face value, obviously, if they could easily find somebody. So it's a choice of buy from a scalper (and lie when you click a box on the transfer system) or not go to the playa, people pick the former.

The only way you can avoid ticket speculation (by scalpers and burners) is if you can't transfer at all, you can only return the ticket for a refund, whereupon it goes to the next person on the waiting list. (Said waiting list ordered in any number of possible ways including first-come-first-served, or a 2nd lottery or other methods.)

This means you can't sell a ticket to a friend or campmate. But why does your friend deserve a ticket that was allocated to you by lottery over somebody else who is ahead of them on the waiting list?

However, non-transferable tickets can be "sold" if the person is going to enter Burning Man with you, if it is desired to do it this way.

[bradtem]

You can't tell people not to buy scalped tickets. They don't *want* to buy them, they would rather buy face value.

What you can do is not sell to scalpers at face value. That means if you want to sell a ticket at face value, make sure you're selling it to a burner. Ask to talk to them on Skype or Hangout before the sale. You can often tell if they are a burner. If they say they have been before, get a picture of them on the playa before you videoconference with them. Or meet in person and demand this.

If they are a virgin, well, you have to decide, are they really one, or are they a scalper?

If you can't be sure, you have to decide if you want to risk feeding the scalpers. Given the choice between a burner selling a ticket to a scalper for face value, and the scalper selling it for $300 above face value, and a burner selling it for $300 above face value and donating $300 to a worthwhile art project fund, which one is actually better for the community?

The more scarce tickets are, the more the scalpers make -- remember that.

[Stephendragonfly]

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if all the longtime burners who didn't get tickets showed up en masse the same week with all of their stuff in another location, like Death Valley (Frying Man), The Grand Canyon (Falling Man), Niagra Falls (Drowning Man), The Petrified Forest (Stone Man), Mono Lake, (Pickled Man), or Devil's Tower (Viagra Man). (Ok most of those are probably out because they are national parks/monuments but use yer imaginations, there are other cool places) Could y'all create an even cooler event competing directly with Burning Man (and thus dropping population pressures). Just a thought for all of the angry, frustrated, ticketless Burners.

(No, I haven't got a ticket, yet. Pretty much the only way in for me this year is Low Income)

[wraith]

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if all the longtime burners who didn't get tickets showed up en masse the same week with all of their stuff in another location, like Death Valley (Frying Man), The Grand Canyon (Falling Man), Niagra Falls (Drowning Man), The Petrified Forest (Stone Man), Mono Lake, (Pickled Man), or Devil's Tower (Viagra Man). (Ok most of those are probably out because they are national parks/monuments but use yer imaginations, there are other cool places) Could y'all create an even cooler event competing directly with Burning Man (and thus dropping population pressures). Just a thought for all of the angry, frustrated, ticketless Burners.

(No, I haven't got a ticket, yet. Pretty much the only way in for me this year is Low Income)

Well, unless someone's going to be spending a lot of time in advance arranging the logistics, wherever they went would end up a disaster zone. 10k+ people without any toilets for a week is recipe for nasty.

[Key Man]

...if the transfer of funds was thru the borg wouldn't that prevent it from being sold above face value?

CM

Not really. A seller could still say to a buyer "Pay me $500 and then I'll send a request to transfer the ticket to your name through STEP". You'd pay your premium directly to the scalper, then pay face value (or face value plus "convenience fee", depending on how the program is structured) to the STEP program.

It seems that registered names and "anonymous" transfer would the only airtight way to ace out the scalpers.

[JCarter]

Sorry your big theme camp can't make it. But not one of those people will fall over dead because they can't go to Burning Man. IT IS A VACATION, NOT THE BE ALL AND END ALL OF LIFE. I'm sure you'll miss your friends, I know I'll miss mine who can't go. But we won't die. And for those of us who do make it to the playa, we'll be fine without whatever it is your camp does.

And with that I think you just summed up the underlying problem to the whole ticket thing(or at least the thing that worries me).

It seems that for a lot of people, this really IS the end all and be all of life. When they say that Burning Man is "home" they mean it. TTITD really is their life.

In previous years that was fine because everyone who felt that way got to "go home".

[Stephendragonfly]

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if all the longtime burners who didn't get tickets showed up en masse the same week with all of their stuff in another location, like Death Valley (Frying Man??),

Well, unless someone's going to be spending a lot of time in advance arranging the logistics, wherever they went would end up a disaster zone. 10k+ people without any toilets for a week is recipe for nasty.

Hmm, guess I didn't think that through very well,
2.0
What if some of the wonderful people who lead theme camps but didn't get tickets got their act together now to have another event in another place (Copyright Infringement Man??)? Since these guys have experience working out the logistics of getting many people, materials, etc together to make cool stuff for BM, how much of a stretch for them would it be for them to put on a Small Festival??

[theCryptofishist]

I still think that's grossly underestimating the work involved. There's a reason the burn isn't run out of Larry's garage. (And, no, it's not that as a San Francisco renter he doesn't have a garage...)

[SageV]

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if all the longtime burners who didn't get tickets showed up en masse the same week with all of their stuff in another location...

BLM already issued an advisory bulletin that they are going to put any such thing in the hurt locker. Now, whether they have the man power to do that, that's a whole other thing.

[Stephendragonfly]

I know of some ex Norcal RenFaire folks who, deciding that RenFaire had gotten too commercialized for them, set up a (very private, secret, invite only, you didn't hear about this from me) Lord of the Rings themed camping trip (no, I don't know where or exactly when). Maybe that would be the way to go.

I am seeing ads on Craigslist, not just tickets for sale/wanted, but for whole theme camps and mutant vehicles. I am surprised that people who are so into Burning Man would give up on getting tickets so soon. I just think it is a waste for people to just give up on all the work that they have put into creating something really cool. I know it takes time and dedication to set up big theme camps, but it seems a little early to just give up.

I mean what if Bmorg held 10,000 tickets back to sell in STEP as one of their anti scalper measures?? Priming the pot might make STEP more workable. What if one of the ideas behind the lottery and Fertility 2.0 was to test the resiliency of the Burner community? I believe that people who are really determined to make it to Burning Man and make it something special will succeed.

[theCryptofishist]

I think the llc had no idea what the ticket drawing and STEP would engender. I doubt it would have been any better with 1c1s.

I know of some ex Norcal RenFaire folks who, deciding that RenFaire had gotten too commercialized for them, set up a (very private, secret, invite only, you didn't hear about this from me) Lord of the Rings themed camping trip (no, I don't know where or exactly when). Maybe that would be the way to go.

I'd not be surprised if it ever happened, but I don't expect to hear about it.

[kp_higgs]

I agree. The actual percentage it totally speculative...but, I believe many tickets went to people wanting to sell them above face value. I think the prospect of making a lot of money scalping attracted many non-burner folks to enter into the lottery. My friends' dad who lives in Reno said his neighbors were telling him to enter the lottery so he could make money selling the tickets...said they heard about it on a local radio station. Plenty of non-burners (and maybe burners, too) dont see a problem with scalping the tickets.

So the only way to combat this is to announce that tickets can only be transferred or gifted through STEP, online, no paper tickets will be issued, and you will have to use your ID at the gate.

The gate entry system will have to be totally overhauled as well as the STEP program to allow gifting and online transfering...even returning your ticket to someone on the waitlist. Burners not wanting to use their ID's at the gate will rant about it...but they ranted years ago about using their credit card to purchase tickets...and now they're doing it this year.

[A Jester]

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if all the longtime burners who didn't get tickets showed up en masse the same week with all of their stuff in another location, like Death Valley (Frying Man), The Grand Canyon (Falling Man), Niagra Falls (Drowning Man), The Petrified Forest (Stone Man), Mono Lake, (Pickled Man), or Devil's Tower (Viagra Man). (Ok most of those are probably out because they are national parks/monuments but use yer imaginations, there are other cool places) Could y'all create an even cooler event competing directly with Burning Man (and thus dropping population pressures). Just a thought for all of the angry, frustrated, ticketless Burners.

(No, I haven't got a ticket, yet. Pretty much the only way in for me this year is Low Income)

That's a fantastic idea. Though, I'd suggest starting a bit small so you have some time to work the kinks out (or in). In a few years you may consider that your new home.

[BBadger]

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if all the longtime burners who didn't get tickets showed up en masse the same week with all of their stuff in another location, like Death Valley (Frying Man), The Grand Canyon (Falling Man), Niagra Falls (Drowning Man), The Petrified Forest (Stone Man), Mono Lake, (Pickled Man), or Devil's Tower (Viagra Man). (Ok most of those are probably out because they are national parks/monuments but use yer imaginations, there are other cool places) Could y'all create an even cooler event competing directly with Burning Man (and thus dropping population pressures). Just a thought for all of the angry, frustrated, ticketless Burners.

Haha nice -Man names.

That's kind of like what the Rainbow Gathering does. They just show up in some pristine wilderness area, ruin the place with a big hippie camp and their toilet trenches, lose a lot of pet dogs that have to be rounded up or shot, and cause a bunch of problems for whatever national forest they choose to defile. They're somewhat better these days since some people stay behind and try to make things right after they leave (you know, so the Forest Service doesn't seriously call in the police to round them up and force them out), but they still get no permission cause some havoc. Hopefully those ex-burners conduct themselves in a more appropriate manner.

[Dr Dilemma]

So the only way to combat this is to announce that tickets can only be transferred or gifted through STEP, online, no paper tickets will be issued, and you will have to use your ID at the gate.

The gate entry system will have to be totally overhauled as well as the STEP program to allow gifting and online transfering...even returning your ticket to someone on the waitlist. Burners not wanting to use their ID's at the gate will rant about it...but they ranted years ago about using their credit card to purchase tickets...and now they're doing it this year.

There are 2 ways I can think of making tickets non-transferrable that would work. When you order your tickets, upload a picture and have that printed on the ticket, like Glastonbury does. No need to show ID, so folks wouldn't freak out about the "show your papers" stuff, if you think that's a valid concern anyway. You don't want a system that requires scanning because scanners would require electronics which would cost money and get destroyed in the dust. (Although they seem to work OK for scanning early arrival passes, so it might be an option). Or make all tickets Will-Call and show your ID or CC you used to purchase. If you did will call, you could order 2 tickets and bring someone with you that you are gifting a ticket to.

[Key Man]

I understand what you're saying, but I don't see how, under the circumstances, a photo can be enough. Photo ID can get very gray area. Costume-y looks could make people hard to identify. What are gate personnel supposed do do if someone shows up who looks a "little different" than the photo? Maybe it's night time and dusty, gate gal is looking at the ticket under a flashlight in adverse conditions. Gray area.

If tickets are registered, a percentage of people WILL TRY to break the rules and sneak in - it's guaranteed.

Fast forward to a typical scene. Someone has spent days preparing, packing, traveling to the gate but they have someone else's ticket. They're with a group of friends who all have legit tickets. Being turned away and sent home, when a comfortable way home is not even available, is the worst possible nightmare to this person. It's not like Glastonbury because you're 100 miles from anywhere, maybe thousands of miles from home, maybe with no way home. I can imagine a lot of tears, and sometimes a violent reaction. Thinking about this on your laptop at home you might say "too bad, you brought it on yourself" but this is a VERY TENSE SCENE. This is a big deal.

And, keep in mind the parallel risk of turning someone away who really is the proper owner of the ticket, because...the picture just wasn't a very good likeness. A bit like executing someone for a crime they didn't commit. This is even worse than the above nightmare scenario!

No, no no. That gate person needs PROOF POSITIVE that the ticket is or isn't linked to you, if they are going to make that call and do the deed of turning someone away. You need to show a legal ID, and prove that it's you.

[vargaso]

Fast forward to a typical scene. Someone has spent days preparing, packing, traveling to the gate but they have someone else's ticket. They're with a group of friends who all have legit tickets. Being turned away and sent home, when a comfortable way home is not even available, is the worst possible nightmare to this person. It's not like Glastonbury because you're 100 miles from anywhere, maybe thousands of miles from home, maybe with no way home. I can imagine a lot of tears, and sometimes a violent reaction. Thinking about this on your laptop at home you might say "too bad, you brought it on yourself" but this is a VERY TENSE SCENE. This is a big deal.

This is already a problem. You don't actually think that an event of 50K people happens and nobody forgets their ticket? And yeah, it totally sucks to be that person, and they end up back in gerlach in the Burning Man office trying to find a way home.

Just last year, my co-pilot realized around Sacramento that he forgot his ticket at home. Wanted to turn around and go back for it after we had just driven my ancient hobo freak show 200 miles. NO. Lucky, that my burner network was able to bring that ticket to Gerlach the following day.

If you were from Kentucky, you're gonna need someone to overnight it to you in Gerlach, there's just no other way.

Now, people keep saying how you can't do this, but I'M SAYING how can you not? It will be difficult the first year, but no more difficult than what we are facing right now.

Did you see the post above where the guy's friend's father was told by "his neighbors" to buy Burning Man tickets so they could sell them and make a profit? If lot's of amateurs are scalping this could be bad. This is a disaster that has to stop, no matter how painful it might be.

I think the borg should pull the trigger and DO IT THIS YEAR. Right now. Leave the Scalpers in ruin, but give them an out. Let them use the STEP program to get their money back, so that the tickets can be redistributed.

There is an upside - if so many tickets were bought by those intending to scalp them, they can be rerouted to actual burners! And the worry that 40% of the lottery was newbs will be untrue, and we can get back to our lives.

Well, I'm somewhat reticent to bring it up as it was roundly ridiculed last July when I previously mentioned it, and some even accused me of mischief (oh heavens, not mischief, on a Burning Man board!!), but in the official 2011 operating plan that the BMORG was required to provide to the BLM, it's stated that a small number of tickets is to be retained in the case of people showing up and either not having a ticket, having a fake, or some other problem and also, not having a way back home. Oh I know, I'm full of shit, but it's right here on page 52 (http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/ ... 20Plan.pdf):

" However, if BRC/LLC stops sales then it will reserve a limited number of tickets to be sold at the Box Office for participants who show up at the Gate and have nowhere else to go. This will avoid the issue of loitering in Gerlach and Empire, as well as avoid camping in the ClosureOrder area. This small number of tickets will already be factored into the overall number of participants that BRC can support"

I mention this only because it illustrates that something like you propose above could be done, while also having a contingency plan for those who might be stranded.

[lemur]

OH GREAT

now we will have 10,000 hippies with entire camps coming from pakistan (in their toyota hilux) who will be buying tickets at the gate now that you spilled the beans vargaso !!

[Stephendragonfly]

Some of the people here have suggested that the scalper problem isn't that bad because there aren't that many tickets out there on Stubhub and other sites. Trouble here is that they aren't thinking like a scumbag capitalist. The scalpers, especially the pros, are currently watching Stubhub and other ticketing sites to see just how high the prices will go. They are going to be trying to maximize their profits and that means dribbling out their tickets over time, not all at once. They want to keep an appearance of scarcity.
Some of the more cynical Burners may have had as many as six of their relatives in the lottery for them. The professional scalpers have networks in the hundreds. However they tend to like known quantities, like concerts and sporting events who are selling their tickets through regular outlets (Ticketmaster). The Sellout of Burning Man last year may have attracted the scalpers interest, but until they know which way the organization is going to jump, they may be reluctant to invest too much, probably testing the waters right now.
There are a lot of small time opportunists in the mix with Burning Man as well. They saw the EBAY sales of scalped tickets just after it sold out and now they want a piece of that pie. These are the guys putting up 8 tickets for 1500 bucks apiece on Stubhubbery to make a quick buck. Add to that the lottery system, which creates another layer of perceived scarcity, and you end up with only 30% of actual Burners getting lucky.

If Borg want to see a lot of ticket go to STEP, they should announce that the tickets are going to have the original purchasers name laser etched into them and that person has to be physically present with valid legal id and credit card at the gates to get the people with those tickets in (max of four, just like the rules already state). Would this be a nightmare for the entrance? No more than it already is with the right technology, And how will Borg get the extra money for that tech (cause they already spent the rest of the money, right?)

A Modest Suggestion: Take a fifty tickets and put them on EBAY, two at a time for the "Truly Ultimate Burning Man Experience", live with Burning Man Board of Directors on the Playa in their housing for the week. Hang with Larry Harvey and the rest of the top staff while thousands of volunteers cater to your every whim. You will have something noone else on the Playa has, indoor plumbing. Bidding Starts at $5000.00 (Reserve not met)

I'll bet there are a bunch of Silicon Valley Billionaires who would jump at the chance.

[pink]

I agree. The actual percentage it totally speculative...but, I believe many tickets went to people wanting to sell them above face value. I think the prospect of making a lot of money scalping attracted many non-burner folks to enter into the lottery. My friends' dad who lives in Reno said his neighbors were telling him to enter the lottery so he could make money selling the tickets...said they heard about it on a local radio station. Plenty of non-burners (and maybe burners, too) dont see a problem with scalping the tickets.

So the only way to combat this is to announce that tickets can only be transferred or gifted through STEP, online, no paper tickets will be issued, and you will have to use your ID at the gate.

The gate entry system will have to be totally overhauled as well as the STEP program to allow gifting and online transfering...even returning your ticket to someone on the waitlist. Burners not wanting to use their ID's at the gate will rant about it...but they ranted years ago about using their credit card to purchase tickets...and now they're doing it this year.

If you find someone scalping tickets, BMorg can have their tickets revoked. Just read it on the 'terms & conditions' for this year. Wonder what radio station it was?