How Can This Happen???

zorro sings · Post by **zorro sings** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:36 pm

You work for a year to get your theme camp events ready.You list them on the eplaya calendar after taking some thought in describing them in ways you hope to attract a few patrons.You get to the event only to find the program lists your event BUT NOT THE LOCATION!!!!We had 8 events scheduled.NOT ONE of them gave the camp location.How are people supposed to find the place.Obvious answer is they don't.This is inexcusable and whoever was in charge of the program should be ashamed of their"work".I was not alone either.Those of you who wanted to see Oakenfold were most likely denied the chance unless you were clairvoyant.That description too lacked any info on where he was performimg.
Finally who the fuck does the editing?I realize that original eplaya calendar listing has to be shortned but a couple of our event descriptions were cut to incomprehensibility.Almost like they threw sentences from the original text in a hat and pulled them out at random.
Difficult to express the anger and betrayal we felt from the program proofreaders/editors lack of care.Would like to hear from someone in a position to take responsibility and reasoms why it won't happen again next year.Thank you.

_tears_ · Post by **_tears_** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:50 pm

If you have a problem you dont need to ramble about your crappy issues here, take it to the people in charge. We arent the editors, give us a break.

I understand you are angry, but things happen, nothing in life is ever perfect lets try to make the best of it.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:52 pm

I realize that you are upset and I really need to ask this question.

What eplaya calendar do you speak of?

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:16 pm

you do know, don't you , that almost no one ever reads the whowhatwhenwherewhywahtever? i never have. i keep thinking someday i should....

DeeZe · Post by **DeeZe** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:34 pm

Hey Zorro Sings,

I for one would like to sympathise with you for what happened. It takes a shitload of work to do a theme camp, I know, I did one last year. It was no doubt a clerical error, but it ended up fucking you and your crew none the less. I would need to vent if I were you as well.We saw the listing and were really excited to see Okenfold spinning at BM, but alas they didn't have an address listed for you. We asked many of our passengers on the DeeZe Flyer if they knew where your camp was but none did. Please write/look me up next year so that I can give you and your crew a ride.

Thanks again for your hard work,

BTW, What was your address/camp name?

DeeZe
owner/driver Deeze Flyer

dragonflyannie · Post by **dragonflyannie** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:51 pm

Oakenfold didn't really spin now did he?
I thought that was just a joke... cause it was in previous years.
I have a feeling this was as made up as Paris Hilton hosting it... (written clear as day in the what where when)

Zorry Sings... so sorry this was your experience. I would take it up with the bm org, but definitely, by all means, voice your feelings here as well... it makes others aware of what can happen. the BM org is wonderful, and I love them to death, but I also am sure that errors can occur, because after all, they are human as well.

zorro sings · Post by **zorro sings** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:05 pm

Well Tears if you would give me the proper address I would love to direct this"crappy issue"complaint where it belongs.Sorry to bother you with my rambling but real tough in my mind to"make the best of it"when your camp is virtually the only one so affected.Doubt that you have ever set up and financed a camp or your attitude would be much different I'm sure.
DVD Burner...Talking about the event calendar that is posted 10 weeks before the event and is available on this site.Probably should have called it something else.Sorry again.
As far as Oakenfold goes,a bit of clarity.It was listed in the "who what where"but no location given so no idea what or who was behind it or even if it was a joke..He was not at our place that is for sure.
Thanks to those who understand.I just want to make sure it does not happen to anyone else next year.If this post causes a program double proof read next year it will be worth it.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:31 pm

This is inexcusable and whoever was in charge of the program should be ashamed of their"work".

Don't like something? I'm assuming you'll be volunteering next year.

Correct?

Ivy · Post by **Ivy** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:06 pm

I can totally see where Zorro is coming from. My submissions to the WWW online were all correct, so it was a major shock to me to see them listed completely wrong (wrong dates, times, addresses) in the WWW.
It's equally distressing to be, say, taking a shower, and having people coming up to you asking, "are you teaching a turban wrappinbg class right now?" and, then, when I say, "no, it was listed wrong, it's really tomorrow," they want to know what I can't just do anouther one right then.

While I appreciate Badger's comment and the thought did cross my mind to volunteer, the part i don't get is why it should take a great deal of correect volunteersim. Everything is listed online, why is it such a major ordeal to dump that info into a printed document? It's all databased already. Why recruit more volunteers to re-enter/re-type the info over again, causing more chances for mistakes and taking up unnecessary time?

As far as people not reading the WWW: I used to think that no one read it either. But tell that to the 30+ people who showed up for classes that didn't exist every day at my camp.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:23 pm

I had 2 copies of the WWW, one at my camp, the other in my storage area of my Camelbak meaning it was always with me. I used the fuck out of it. I saw the listings for Oakenfold but no camp was mentioned. And there were other goofs in there too. Ivy's right...accuracy should not be a major undertaking here. I hope this is one of the things the ORG works on for next year.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:59 pm

Well, I haven't been to Burning Man, but I did attend Gen Con for many, many years, and it took them a bit longer than Burning Man has been around to get their schedule making straightened out. Of course, then they went and changed management, and it all started over from scratch (for no good reason....)

_tears_ · Post by **_tears_** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:20 pm

Well, you are wrong about me, I know the hard work that goes into it, the time, money, the days spent for set up and tear down. Our camp wasn't as successful this year as it was last year, but things like that happen.

As I said, I understand your babble, however I feel it is directed in the wrong place and with the wrong .. Shall we say "attitude".

You stated how you felt about what happened to you on a public form, and I simply said what I felt about your post. Dont like it *shrugs* do not post on a public form please.

Yes, it is a shame that things have been jumbled, misplaced and that things didn't go quite as planned, but, have we not learned to deal with that already? Sometimes things just dont go right, for whatever random reason, nothing is perfect.

If you hunt a bit around the site, there are many contact links, just look around for one, they will get to you and also direct you to where you need to go.

Now as to the Who What Where When or whatever it is called, I do not read the one online however I personally do read the one given to me as I enter the gates. I try to attend one event each day, though i know many people who never even open the book, or leave camp for that matter.

PetsUntilEaten · Post by **PetsUntilEaten** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:24 am

Aw - if it makes you feel any better I saw Oakenfold a few years ago. He came in for one night only & his manager & posse stayed on the tour bus cuz it was cold. They never saw any of the people & city beyond the one camp they played. I told them they should come play & meet people - but the jar of pills on the bus was just too BIG. (never seen Oakey get high, though)

- - and lets face it Oakey's been phoning it in for a while now.

Sobretta Franjipan · Post by **Sobretta Franjipan** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:56 am

you do know, don't you , that almost no one ever reads the whowhatwhenwherewhywahtever? i never have. i keep thinking someday i should....

You read it after you come home and imagine all the wonderful things listed that you missed. And it makes you feel happy.

Fat SAM · Post by **Fat SAM** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:40 am

Screw it - that overinflated, egotistical bass-turd doesn't know how to mix live, anyway.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:28 am

Can't see that small print. As for sound events. Hmmm. Just turn an ear to what feels good and go. The sound in the burbs this year were great. Some stages were right on top of another. It was great,By the second day they were sharing time and even elictric power.
As for other events. My son read them to me. I did get around to a few.

vulgaris · Post by **vulgaris** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:54 pm

Like last year I read the schedual, thought "Ooo I'd like to go there" and in some cases /tried/ to go there but in most couldn't find the place or ended up so inebriated, distracted, whatever-ed that it just didn't happen. I still had a good time.

You can't blame the book for your camp's failures though. You could have gone out and rounded people up for your events. There are humans putting those books together and they probably aren't being paid much to do it. Shit happens, you know? It's frustrating but its also as simple as just not being frustrated about it. Adapt.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:53 pm

vulgaris wrote:
You can't blame the book for your camp's failures though. You could have gone out and rounded people up for your events. There are humans putting those books together and they probably aren't being paid much to do it.

They may not be paid at all. The backbone of BM is volenteers. (So that's why there were so many jellyfish on the playa after the saturday burn. . .)

joya · Post by **joya** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:59 pm

Zorro , I feel your pain, brother!

It was definitely frustrating to read of an event, but not know where it was taking place. I was also desiring to see Oakenfold, but wasn't able to figure out the location. It wasn't as "simple" as tuning my ears into the music, as another e-playan has suggested.

.... and Tears , damn girl! Why so harsh towards Zorro??? Where else would someone come to vent. This is the official burning man public (sometimes pubic, heh heh) forum -- most definitely the place to vent! No offense, but if you don't have something constructive to add, why bother being nasty? This is a serious question. I really don't understand the negativity. But, hey, it's not mine, so keep rolling with it.

Badger , yes, valid point. If you don't like something, do more than just bitch about it. I agree. However, there is only so much a person can do. Running a theme camp and organizing 8 events (and factoring what I've discovered is the very real phenomena of "playa time") can be a lot to take on in itself.

As to the WhoWhatWhen guide... I read it, used it, and was pleased with the results. Just because some people disregard it, know that to others it is a very valuable tool -- and helped to make my burning man experience that much more enjoyable and, believe it or not, educational.

Peace

joya

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:45 pm

Was it wrong of me to point a ramped up, excited young woman looking for this Okenfool guy towards the general direction of where the Mermen were playing?

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:47 pm

Badger wrote:Was it wrong of me to point a ramped up, excited young woman looking for this Okenfool guy towards the general direction of where the Mermen were playing?

Absolutely not. Oakenfold is a pompous ass and you were doing the young woman a serious favor by sending her elsewhere.

pokiedot · Post by **pokiedot** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:10 pm

i have to chime in here.. the www guide has messed up our events two years in a row, and they were listed correctly on the website. i just don't understand why it is so difficult to copy and paste the exact same info into the guide.

year before last some of our events were listed as am instead of pm. we got a few poor souls expecting to make a tiara at 3 in the morning.

this year two events didn't show up in the guide at all, and the others had the wrong locations.

seriously, though. they obviously need some competent volunteers for this projects. volunteers who understand how to use the ctrl c command. perhaps i've found my calling for my volunteer hours next year.

-j

atossab · Post by **atossab** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:18 pm

Yeah, I'm in. I'm a born editor. The WWW was completely useless this year. Things were happening, somewhere, sometime. What a waste pf paper. Lets make this work next year.

zorro sings · Post by **zorro sings** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:11 pm

In the few days after posting this I am encouraged(and symapthetic with) that others see this as a problem as well.I did not realize the guide was a volunteer effort but it is obvious that this year that effort failed.Perhaps with a million dollar budget a few bucks could be found to insure a professional effort in what is most likely the most important tool people have to locate events at the various camps.If theme camps are indeed"the lifeblood of Burning Man"then they deserve much better than the WWWW guide issued this year.
And to prove I am not just complaining may I offer a solution.It seems the window between location assingment and program printing is very short,by my reackoning maybe 2 weeks.Looks like a rush job to me and is proably to blame for many of the screw ups.Why not just move the theme camp registration up a month and assign locations the first of July instead of the first of August?
Finally to the poster who suggested I "go and round up some people" for our events.Should I use a lasso or sheep dogs?
-

buckethead alien · Post by **buckethead alien** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:55 am

This discussion of schedules and so on seems to me to be kind of antithetical to one of the best things about Burning Man—the sense of chaos and non-temporality of it all. The best experiences on the playa and off are those are those you just stumble upon.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:28 am

zorro sings wrote:Why not just move the theme camp registration up a month and assign locations the first of July instead of the first of August?
-

Because that doesn't leave a lot of time between the announcement of the theme and registration of theme camps. I'm sure the DMV could stand extra time to issue liscences as well--including having time for appeals. The larger problem is that it is a huge amount of labor to put on burningman, decentralized amoung thousands of people and thousands--or at least hundreds--of projects and the creativity probably continues right up to the time to leave for the playa--or onto the playa itself. Any WWW is going to be inaccurate. It's simply the nature of the beast. And calling for greater accuracy is p*ssing into the wind.
No, not a sheepdog--dogs aint allowed on the playa. Tell you nieghbors. Mention it to people you meet while you're exploring other camps and art work. Maybe you have friends in other camps who'd let you post an 8 1/2 x 11 poster--and have one at Playa Info board as well. And maybe this is the time to let your inner tout have a go--big drum, snazzy outfit, lead a parade "Come one, come all to the greatest project on earth. . ." I'm sure you could think of something involving your labor, not telling someone else how to do theirs.

kikidelosfeliz · Post by **kikidelosfeliz** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:24 am

Did anyone see Oakey?? Wasn't that a Dept of Misinformation posting? We figured it was a joke...though would dearly love to see Hilton attempt to keep up the uber-gloss look on the playa.

Our camp's small contribution (Celestial Ambrosia and Divinations) was posted on the web at the info site, but seems like the only visitors were those we handed out cards to directly - plan to do more of those next year. This year, we liberated some of the mapcards from info camp and wrote our events on that.

I for one was thrilled and delighted that anything worked at all. Streets with street names! Thank you BMO!!! Not to mention portapotties...

On the other hand, one of the explicitly advertised RV services (water refills) was a complete error, and the other (tank empties) was more along the lines of a mirage. Thank the playa gods that our neighbors came with vast quantities of water and grilled shrimp! Need to think of an appropriate post-playa way to thank them...