Negative Burn

[bullD]

Less 'I have to look good' and more 'what can I do/make to make other's experience awesome?' equals 'bringing back what BM was'.

Personally, I think we all need this branded on our collective asses. Might hurt a bit.

WORD!!! The Wop is right on by saying this.

[Rob the Wop]

ok, Rob the Wop... Does it really matter who is a "fairly newcomer"? Last time I checked it didn't matter. Also, what do you plan on doing about your perceptions of where the event is going? Are you going to take action or bitch about it? All I hear is bitching, and not just from you.

This was my last year. The mantle has been passed to you, if you want an artless rave- it will become one. Enjoy it. I plan enough local events with weirdness. But the first step to it becoming an artless rave is to encourage people to just bring a costume and/or sound system.

Rob the Wop, read the last sentence by cobwebbywings again,,, wait I will quote here, "What you do is what makes you a participant, not what you have." I think that says it all, what do you think?

No, it doesn't. If I come to drink Budweiser, scream "show me your tits!", and wear a blinky light on my dick- am I a participant? I mean, I'm sharing beer and I've got a 'costume'. If what you find different about BM than a local party or rave is the fantastic art, sense of giving, and unique experiences- then bring it back. Tell people not to show up with just a costume. Performance art is free, you can make cool lttle artistic gifts for free, you can make really cool theme camps for next to nothing- but you have to want to try and turn around the trend.

Hell, it's your burn now. If you had seen in 98 when there were over 600 registered theme camps, a lot of the cooler stuff being made from scraps and creativity (the Wheel of Desecration was an awesome perfomance art/game show someone impromtu set up for passersby- cost = some used plywood and some paint), you would probably not be saying "Just bring a costume. You're not rich so it's OK. The grants will cover anything cool that you need to look at."

[Rob the Wop]

No edit, so here's a quick addendum.

Not trying to piss you off bullD, but stop for a second and imagine this.

Everyone that went to Burning Man either
a) made unique, artistic, personal gifts and gave them out
b) spent time developing a performance art piece (game show, circus, dance, Dead Mime patrol, etc.)
c) created a theme camp or interactive element

This would be in addition to whatever costume or party materials they were to bring, not replacing them. Picture 34,000 instances of some cool experience wherever you looked.

We came close. It peaked in the ratio years ago. Now you're on the downside slope. I have done my piece. Do YOU want to change the slope?

How do you do that? Simple. Spread the word. Get people to bring back the art, regardless how small. Get everyone to do it.

Unfortunately this means turning to someone with 'just a costume' and saying- "Personally help bring back the creativity and uniqueness". Yah it's rude, but being broke wasn't an acceptable excuse back then. Matter of fact, the frat boys with cash are often the worst offenders and the 'starving artists' were the ones that made the event.

ACCEPT NO EXCUSES! RADICAL EXPRESSIONISM WILL BE ENFORCED! YOU WILL PARTICIPATE OR BE FORCED TO WATCH MTV IN A LOCKED CAGE FOR 24 HOURS STRAIGHT!!

[bullD]

Wop: not everybody has the same resourcefulness, intellect, energy, logistical know how, etc etc etc.... I completely hear what you are saying and agree,,, but to tell somebody that they don't get it because all they can bring is A costume is, imo, wrong.
Webby, the person that prompted your respnse said essentially the same thing you did: "What you do is what makes you a participant, not what you have," this coupled with what you said, "Less 'I have to look good' and more 'what can I do/make to make other's experience awesome?' equals 'bringing back what BM was'." These statements sound very simillar accept you have some years behind what you are saying. There was a time when you had only been to BM only a year or two or whatever.

Wop, if you read above, my intentions are to do exactly what you are takling about. I have the resoucefulness, intellect, energy and logistical know how. If somebody wants to get involved with what I am doing and they only have a couple of years on the playa, or none, I am not going to turn on them and say no thanks you don't get it. I am going to guide and teach.

What you said, "Get people to bring back the art, regardless how small. Get everyone to do it." is right on the point. I intend to do that, thank you.

[herpy hancock]

yes, please bring back the days on the buick skylark and a shot gun!
oh the days have gone away - remember when we usta take a dump in a 5 gallon bucket and pour some gasoline on it?


god those days were great!

[b00m3rang]

The thing that seems most disturbing to me is that people seem to be so easy to abandon it because some "bad" things happened, or people acted in a way that they don't agree with...so are you going to just opt-out of life for the same reason? bad stuff happens in real life too, but we deal with it.

Thank you! Things in general tend to get better, then worse, then better again and so on. You only have one data point per year to sample, so it's easy to tend toward disappointment. I didn't get a chance to go this year, I'd hope you all felt grateful for the experience you /did/ have. I plan on bringing a bunch of new people, and preparing and bring more than ever to contribute to the vibe next year. Let's keep it positive, and make sure there are still more of us burners working to make the event great than there are people detractors.

The world needs Burning Man, WE need Burning Man, and we need to work our collective asses off and get involved, I believe.

[b00m3rang]

We had scoured the forums beforehand, spoken to friends, and did a bunch of research, but what would have really helped is a docent or guide.

I can see it now, "Big Burners of America". Make it your camp next year!

[b00m3rang]

Thank you!

Dang, pay no attention to the numerous typos in that post... must be the flu.

[Gromit]

Gromit, I'm not one to give up, but am also not sure what I can do to change anything. Is my attendance all that is required to fix things?

<snip>
Growth is not good for BM "." I'd like to say BM is growing and it's growing better at the same time, but having been apart of BM when there were only 4000 people in attendence all the way to 35k now, I can see the affects of population. I don't think it's getting better. More people do not = More participation, just the opposite I think.

NF

I'm not saying that attendance is all it takes, and I'm not saying that more people are better either...I agree that there were cool things that you and I will likely never see again, as we did when there were so few people and rules.

I think the issue with growth is that it's happening faster than newbies can learn what participation is...I saw in another post too that someone was saying that it's too expensive to bring a themecamp, etc to provide participation..., but it doesn't really take that much, and like I said earlier in my post, participation doesn't require a themecamp...you can always buddy up with someone else with a camp...

a friend of mine simply brought a BBQ and a crapload of food one year, and every evening when *he* got hungry, he would start cooking, and he would keep cooking until everyone around him was well fed...burgers, stir-fry, you name it...if you were there, awesome, if you weren't you missed out...but he didn't only cook for our camp (there were only 8 of us), he passed food out to anyone who walked by...

my wife and I always bring a box of "stuff", it usually has a bunch of playa essentials, and other goodies in it, such as condoms, small packs of sunblock, salt tablets, cheap sunglasses, suckers or other candies etc, just for gifting to people...and they're always grateful, and it makes us feel good, and I know that that is plenty of participation for many people.

Most of the people who are whining are saying "There wasn't enough here for ME!", "I didn't see enough art", "There wasn't anything to do..."

Honestly, there wasn't enough to do at BM? You can keep yourself entertained on your couch. Bring some art...it doesn't have to be some big showy inflatable dildo with GWB's face on the head...

I don't hear anyone on here saying, "I had this camp, and it was really cool, but no one would participate"

I don't know...there is still so much to be had at BM, and perhaps the future is in the regionals, and BM will be some central meeting place where the regions can see each other once in awhile, but I still find myself more open on the playa, and try to make friends, and get what I can out of it, and give where I can...I've done big theme camps, and I will likely do more theme/art in the future, time permitting, but I will continue to go, at least occasionally...

Thanks for the banter, Burp!

-G

[heat]

lookin forward to next year when all the folks who are feeling so down on the city and the effort required to rejuvenate it all stay home. Folks into rejunevnation, such as myself - yes , even after, what, 7 burns - can let our imaginations and passion find themselves again on the playa.
And money - I have done the burn, and participated, on peanuts. If you lack money or imagination yet have the fire, search out and help with someone else's project ahead of time and on site. And big art-builders who are tired, remember how all the calls for help ahead of time generated pods of community that thrived once on the playa?

Artists will always find a way to express; it chooses you, not the other way around. Remember salvage yards? Thrift stores? Dump recycling centers? And remember the guy quietly typing a novel out on the open playa a couple years ago? Let go so many judgements and pre conceptions. And stay home if you feel better that way, we'll still send you some love

[calsur]

To Rob the Wop,

You are an Elitist BM scum.

According to the rules you propose I HAVE to join a theme camp to get a ticket.

I HAVE to be in the first 24,000 that buy a ticket.

I HAVE to arrive by Wednesday.

You are proposing a bunch of RULE changes.

And you bitched about “Over-regulation”

So aside from the two bottles of wormwood juice at the Meet & Greet what did you contribute to BM? What Art did you do and where was it placed?

[DVD Burner]

How about changing a negative to a positive.

They should just have a Burningman week where BM happens all over the world at the same time and Broadcasted at the same time to BM in the desert Via IPV6. (internet II High Def.)

[sputnik]

Ehhh, if you are done then don't go anymore. It really is that simple.
However, if you care about the event, then do something about it other than bitch. In my opinion there was a lack of random playa art ( for whatever reasons ) but, this has only served to motivate me for next year. See the "Bring back Playa Art!!" thread if you have some good ideas about how WE make this happen because really, it is up to US.
.

This was my first year, and I had no idea I could just bring something and plop it down somewhere on the playa. Next year I will. I was disappointed by the lack of art, though in looking at pics that others in my camp had, I just missed some of it (that's what I get for working camp on Saturday afternoon).

I also think the idea of limiting access to the event after wednesday or thursday would be a great idea. I certainly noticed a large increase in general yahoos into the weekend.

[Rob the Wop]

To Rob the Wop,

You are an Elitist BM scum.

According to the rules you propose I HAVE to join a theme camp to get a ticket.

I HAVE to be in the first 24,000 that buy a ticket.

I HAVE to arrive by Wednesday.

You are proposing a bunch of RULE changes.

And you bitched about “Over-regulation”

So aside from the two bottles of wormwood juice at the Meet & Greet what did you contribute to BM? What Art did you do and where was it placed?

Ooh, that hurt. Did the Art last year with CarnEvil. Deliberately didn't do it this year, as I wanted to 'fit in' with the ideology I seen in 03. The green liquid you are refering to takes a month to create properly, and is only one of three things I created and walked around distributing freely to folks over the course of two days. People seemed to like the liquid and the ceremony involved.

BM will die a slow and painful death without measures being taken. In the older years, it was a de facto rule that you brought art or a theme camp (participated). Now people feel participation is just showing up. Enforced creativity will bring back the art. It's simply a bunch of rules that changed a de facto rule and overall feeling, and turn it into a regulation that you must participate. If forces you to plan ahead, make a solid commitment, and follow through. I mean seriously, how fucking hard is it to think up a damn theme camp? You could even get some buddies, make up a name, and not follow through if you wanted to blow that off. But it would at least get you thinking. You would at least show the minimum creativity it requires to think up a name.

Hey, but don't worry. I won't be back, so make Burning Man into whatever you want.

[DVD Burner]

BM will die a slow and painful death without measures being taken. In the older years, it was a de facto rule that you brought art or a theme camp (participated). Now people feel participation is just showing up. Enforced creativity will bring back the art. It's simply a bunch of rules that changed a de facto rule and overall feeling, and turn it into a regulation that you must participate. If forces you to plan ahead, make a solid commitment, and follow through. I mean seriously, how fucking hard is it to think up a damn theme camp? You could even get some buddies, make up a name, and not follow through if you wanted to blow that off. But it would at least get you thinking. You would at least show the minimum creativity it requires to think up a name.

Hey, but don't worry. I won't be back, so make Burning Man into whatever you want.

I dont know. Would you say that 6 sticks and a Gucci jacket is a good attempt?



Burningman needs you and the likes Rob. You really make a diffrence weather you belive it or not.

Maybe the event needs someone like you to give it a good kick in the ass just to jump start some creativity.

All I know is that you will be missed if you do not return to Burningman and I have'n even met you yet.

[Rob the Wop]

I dont know. Would you say that 6 sticks and a Gucci jacket is a good attempt?

Absolutely. Most of the really cool art are simple pieces, scattered throughout the city and made by people that are not artists in daily life. The heart of Burning Man is not the drugs or alcohol, or the pre-recorded music, or the partying. You can get that anywhere. The difference between Burning Man and a party is the location and the individual (or group effort) creativity. And the attendees control the latter. Wouldn't take much to bring the art back. Just everyone do something. I think I read something about participation on the ticket or somewhere.

[pstar]

which may not be saying much as it was only my third... but by far the best... my first year doing art, which was, by the way, a rolling party barge (the HELLBAR with the four horses of the apocaplypse leading our way) and a damned spectacular party at that... WHATEVER to those of you who don't think being able to throw a non-stop raging beautiful celebration is an ART - you give it a try sometime and let me know how many people tell you that you were their greatest burningman experience ever, or even one of the best times of their LIFE!!! all i can say is my friends and i brought everything we had to this burningman (we were a non-stop job site for four days - i learned how to use a jigsaw in a dust storm - after playing all night long) and we are continuing to be well repaid for our efforts... AND i met tons of newbies, which was at first annoying me because they were so obviuos and everywhere, but they turned me around because almost everyone cried and said they couldn't wait until next year to to ART and give back... THIS IS HOW WE CHANGE THE WORLD... yes i am bummed i wasn't there 18 years ago, or even 5 years ago.... but i have been touched and now i am touching.... YAY HELLBAR!!!

[DVD Burner]

I dont know........



out of my exerience, Those that dont really try very hard such as the above, usually have "Frat people/Yahoos" around.

This tends to bother me and seems, is what may cause the slight diminishment of others fun.

[theCryptofishist]

Hey, but don't worry. I won't be back, so make Burning Man into whatever you want.

Bad Sock! No Foot Powder!






Seriously--you add a lot to this board and I enjoyed warping the fabric of space and time to meet with you at the Meet'n'Greet . I'm pleased to hear that you plan to continue with cacophony events and stay in touch with your roots, and if it's time for you to move on, who am I--even as your creatrix--to stand in your way? But remember, you will be missed.

[foompa]

In 9 years of attendence, this is the first time I've ever felt moved enough to say no, I'm not coming back... at least not as long as this is the Burning Man that I'm coming back to.

I'm not here to say what Burning Man *should* be. For me it has always been the ultimate in freedom of expression. If that's true, then who am I to tell you how to express yourself? I will say though, that I am utterly disappointed by the lack of diversity, inspiration, and participation in 2004.

I've danced until dawn and I appreciate the element of music and dancing on the playa. Having been a member of two major theme camps with big sound (Illuminaughty & Magic Glasses), I fully understand the benefits and drawbacks of that type of camp. I absolutely see a place for them on the playa... as long as there are enough other artisitic or interactive elements to create a balance.

I'm crushed by the quantity of big sound camps, all vying for the title of biggest party or best sound system, all trying desperately to outdo each other, stacked one on top of the other trying to drown each other out & creating a frenetic & uncomfortable space. And how many of these large scale music camps even made an effort to align themselves with the theme of the event? The sheer number of these camps, most with raging sound and an empty dancefloor, absolutely dominated the event, leaving me with the feeling that Burning Man has become nothing more than a nightclub.

The phenominal decline in art and interactive experiences on the playa this year was simply astonishing.

You say it just costs too much to participate on a larger scale or create an interactive experience? I'll tell you that the first Magic Glasses tunnel was made for under $50. Add on 100 pairs of light diffracting glasses for $50. That's $100 and a few people to work the tunnel & recycle the glasses. We had over 10,000 visitors every night... and that was long before we had a sound system. Some of the simplest ideas produce the greatest effect. Everything else is just ego.

On Friday and Saturday I walked the Esplanade and inner rings only to find the majority was dark. Remember the years of the Wizard of ASS??? The Bone Tree? The mosoleum? The delicate lily pond? And I see nothing, absolutely nothing rising up in the changing of the guard to take their place.

Larnie Fox articulated my hopes for the Burning Man culture better than I ever could:
"There is a yet unnamed art movement that may prove to be of some significance, and Burning Man is close to its center. It often manifests itself as circus, ritual, and spectacle. It is a movement away from a dialogue between an individual artist and a sophisticated audience, and towards collaboration amongst a big, wild, free and diverse community. It is a movement away from galleries, schools and other institutions and towards an art produced in and for casual groups of participants, more akin to clans and tribes, based on aesthetic affinities and bonds of friendship. It is a movement away from static gallery art and formal theater and towards site-specific, time-specific installation and performance. It is a rejection of spoon-fed corporate culture and an affirmation of the homemade, the idiosyncratic, the personal. It is profoundly democratic. It is radically inclusive, it is a difficult challenge, and it is beckoning."

It is my greatest sadness that the community has evolved into something so far removed from these hopes & dreams.

So no, I'm not coming back, not to this cycle in the life of Burning Man. Not to a place where Leave No Trace has lost it's meaning and waste is utterly rampant. After 9 years of defining myself through this community, I no longer feel comfortable refering to myself as a Burning Man person.

[Sensei]

To Rob the Wop,

You are an Elitist BM scum.

Oh Dear God, let me some day know the joy of being called "Elitist BM scum".

So aside from the two bottles of wormwood juice...

I drove 700 miles in the slight chance that I'd get a taste of that "wormwood juice". All reports, and there are many, are that it tasted like hell and kicked like Satan's mule. What the fuck else do you want?

[Rian Jackson]

Somehow i would like to make an eplayan art project, something we can work on together from across the world and each bring a piece to.

somehow it seems like, in a few small, key ways, it might help. tying those who can come and those who can't. beginning another community venture. and adding more art, art that probably hasn't been done that way before.

maybe it's too ambitious, but i like the concept.

hell, if anyone's interested PM me. maybe i'll start a listserv....

[jimbobby]

art by comittee, yuck

[jimbobby]

now, if you can get every eplayan to commit to doing an art piece and perhaps co-locating it...

[DVD Burner]

Can you give more detail Rian?

[JulzQ1]

Much of Burning Man was a juxtoposition. As an artist, naturally I have been drawn to Burning Man for the art and the sort of free form of creativity allowed to be expressed in such a natural and open environment. I do not come for what happens in the city per se. I have always been drawn to what seeps out beyond the boundaries of the esplanade.

I feel greatly inclined to say that the large scale art installations have steadily decreased. During much of the event this year I pondered the questions of why Burning Man has steadily been turning away from it's artcentric roots, into a much different type of event. This year was the year I seriously questioned why artists felt that Burning Man was no longer an event where they were willing to express themselves.

I haven't been long, only since 2000, but in that short time I have seen the art move further and further away from the city and closer and closer to the trash line. So much so that the temple this year was virtually ON the trash line. What does this say about Burning Man as a whole and our relationship to the art? Are artists feeling the need to move further and further away from the city, into the serenity of nature? Is it too much to presume that too many factors are playing into the lack? The fact that the art is so far beyond the city's borders, most cannot be seen from the esplanade. What does it say about the event when artists cannot even place their art on the open playa without it being vandalized by the end of the week?

My own observation is that the large sound installations on the esplanade have gotten expontentially larger and much louder. At dawn, one cannot ride out on the open playa and not be barraged with thumping from every direction. At one time you could ride out and find a place where it was virtually silent. Don't get me wrong, the music is a huge crative force at Burning Man, just as the art. However, my idea of my own ideal large scale art installation is not *best* viewed with the constant thumping of techno 24/7 right behind it. And I love techno, go figure.

Also, the rising ticket prices have got to be another factor as to why the art is lacking. Tickets were generally $40 more than last year with ticket prices reaching $350 at the gate. While in a time of war, is this really an affordable event for artists to attend and create? Especially an event where vandalism occurs to their pieces that they have conceptulized for a year? Of course there are the reduced ticket prices, scholarships, and grants. But with an increase of rules and regulations around the entire event, a decrease in civility and respect, I would theorize that artists are moving away from Burning Man because their idea of the event differs greatly from its creators and the general population at the event.

This should be of huge concern for everyone, not just artists, but the entire Burning Man community. Without art, who are we in any society? Who is there to expand us into the trenches of our intellect and make us question our existence? Such life artists are the sole purpose of many who attend Burning Man. Of course they are not the end-all-be-all of Burning Man's existence. But without them, I do feel the city will greatly suffer in its mission.

With all of that being said, I do have to say that this year was fantastic for me. I spent most of my time with the HeeBeeGeeBee Healers, nurturing my soul and reflecting on the event as a whole. I got out of the event everything I put into it and even though the art was lacking, I focused my energy on the interactions I had with random people as well as my friends. I lived each moment of Burning Man in the moment, not reaching for the next day or the next person I met, but wholly being of myself in that moment. And it was because of that transormative outlook that I realize I have gotten everything out of Burning Man I possibly can. And at the same time I realized that I can't return, because the event has turned away from the ideals it once attained, and is only stretching further away from those ideals.

That's not to say that it's not of value or that it's lesser than it was 10 years ago, just that it's different, and it's those differences that will evolve Burning Man but that will keep me away from it.

Namaste
Julie

[diode]

Wow. Terrific statement.

I used to love the 'no spectators' signs and slogans everywhere. Then I heard that the powers that be (someone, somewhere in the org) had decreed that people were getting bummed, it was too confrontational.

Sigh...

[bullD]

Wow. Terrific statement.

I used to love the 'no spectators' signs and slogans everywhere. Then I heard that the powers that be (someone, somewhere in the org) had decreed that people were getting bummed, it was too confrontational.

Sigh...

Fuck em!!!! I thinks I will make gifting art for next year that says "No Fucking Spectators!" Oh but wait, that could be misunderstood as meaning no spectators of fucking... OK I'll stick with the original, "No Spectators!" he he he

[HughMungus]

Yeah, not my favorite year, either (my first since 2001, 200, 1998 and 1997). Seems like there used to be a lot more involvement -- everything from spontaneous parades to more participatory art (the walk-thru art under the man SUCKED and the performance "art" was even suckier).

I wonder how much of the changes has to do with BMORG. I can't really say but center camp was an interesting example (though I have read lately that keeping people from lounging around center camp was the reason it didn't feel like a comfortable place to lounge around as it has for so many years in the past). Another thing that disturbs me is the concept that BMORG needs the money from the weekenders to be economically viable. Maybe there needs to be an attendance cap (which I'm sure is a controversial subject).

But I still think it's what you make it. I think we have the choice of turning it over to the yahoos and spectators and assholes or making it what we want it to be. I'm going next year to make up for my crappy this year (which was not caused by BM itself as much as circumstances).

By the way, if we have thought-out concerns, etc., what's the best way to relate them to BMORG?

[diane o'thirst]

Is there gonna be a Fall Town Meeting this year?

Personally, I have a theory that those huge, expensive installations back in 2000 might be one reason why there is less art on the Playa. They raised the bar. I noticed a severe drop-off in funky, jury-rigged, but fun and accessible art produced by single or small (less than 3) teams of artists after that year.

My favourite installation of 2000? The Toy Kaleidoscope. So simple, so fun, so weird, so funky. Now it's all huge, monumental pieces.

The point about the wartime economy was well-taken. I just don't buy the cynicism that war is good for business: it never has been. How many of us have the income we did four years ago? It's no wonder that more and more rave camps and fewer theme camps come to the Playa every year. I used to do Sandpainting Camp and we spent thousands getting various materials for our Sandalas together. We could have been cheaper and just set up a deejay booth, but frankly doing sandpaintings was more fun and a lot more interactive and creative.

Maybe it's time I set up a dome and DJ classical...refresh my memory, has DJ Wolfie been taken...?