New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 2012

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by quadraspleen » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:18 pm

Sandstorm, I know. We agree. I know you weren't specifically hitting on them for anything other than the ticket crock. Me too re the hi-speed Internet thing and lots of computers but I CBA to sit there for longer than ten minutes lol
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Eric » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:31 pm

quadraspleen wrote:I really prefer debacle. I'll give you fiasco last year but this years word is surely debacle. They've turned it into a verb. They've debaclised (thats debaclized for you guys) the ticketing process. I like saying both. Fiasco. Debacle. Both sound odd too when you say them more than three times...
Last year wasn't a fiasco at all- there were tickets on sale for 7 months & plenty of "hints" to buy a ticket now, before the sell-out happened. The only "fiasco" was all those people who ignored the warnings & then blamed everyone else.

This year counts as both to some degree, but it was an attempt to correct the looming problem of being in a "sell out" environment as fairly as possible. The fact they thought "Burners" wouldn't game the system was a huge problem, the results are (or aren't) an issue depending on who you talk to. Yes, MG has called it a "disaster", but others who aren't on the board don't see a problem with the complacency of BRC being shaken up. (I'm somewhere in the middle).

The fact is we now have to live with demand being greater than supply. This is the first year of that and the Org is inside the fire trying to control it and making no one totally happy. Next year things should be smoother (though there is no way everyone will get a ticket, and the shouts of "elitism" will be never-ending now), but I still expect this year to kick ass & personally I plan to be there to see how this all shakes out.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by 7chix&me » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:00 pm

quadraspleen wrote:I really prefer debacle. I'll give you fiasco last year but this years word is surely debacle. They've turned it into a verb. They've debaclised (thats debaclized for you guys) the ticketing process. I like saying both. Fiasco. Debacle. Both sound odd too when you say them more than three times...
I hear tabasco on tacos when I say it over and over...maybe I'm hungry...

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Max Callahan » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:27 pm

Eric wrote: Last year wasn't a fiasco at all- there were tickets on sale for 7 months & plenty of "hints" to buy a ticket now, before the sell-out happened. The only "fiasco" was all those people who ignored the warnings & then blamed everyone else.
I'm not saying last years sell out was a fiasco (mmm, fiasco), I'm saying that in last years ticket forum, people were calling the day 1 server crash and resultant queue issues a fiasco.

What I'm saying about this year is that the lottery must have seemed like the best move given the speed at which tickets moved last year, and that we can't say that going from first come first served is what caused this year to be bad when it's more people wanting to go than can thats causing things to be bad.
I can blame them for not knowing we'd turn on each other once tickets got scarce given we already tend to fractionalize (see sound camps vs everyone else as a start), but given I can't think of a way for them to start breaking it to us early that this year is going to be a massive sell out that wouldn't then turn into a trumped up "they are just trying to drive up demand" I can't blame them hard.
This year is hard and triage sucks all around, I'm mostly not judging them on this year, it's how they handle next year now that supply is an issue that's going to be important.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Mosquitopilate » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:10 pm

Will STEP Emails be issued on 2-29-2012 or before?
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Thanks to all that made BM 2012 great. You people are the best on planet earth )'( )'( )'(

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by quadraspleen » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:27 pm

Max Callahan wrote: This year is hard and triage sucks all around, I'm mostly not judging them on this year, it's how they handle next year now that supply is an issue that's going to be important.
Touché...
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Blacksheep » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:05 am

It seems as though the ticketing problems may have forever changed the community that I sought out and found at BRC years ago. The community that has always been loosely connected is full of infighting and hostility and frankly the event seems more and more like a mega-entertainment venue much like the superbowl or large concert. I find myself torn still wanting to go but afraid of what I will find if I go. I can't get the taste out of my mouth of the commercial feel the event has taken on. While I understand the theme and art camp decisions it seems as the the equality and "oneness" that I felt has been destroyed forever with the reality that there is a class system at work here no different from the real world and in many ways less tolerable. Like being told that your family is going on vacation but you can't go because there aren't enough seats and your brother or sister are more important than you....

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Sham » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:19 am

Blacksheep wrote:It seems as though the ticketing problems may have forever changed the community that I sought out and found at BRC years ago. The community that has always been loosely connected is full of infighting and hostility and frankly the event seems more and more like a mega-entertainment venue much like the superbowl or large concert. I find myself torn still wanting to go but afraid of what I will find if I go. I can't get the taste out of my mouth of the commercial feel the event has taken on. While I understand the theme and art camp decisions it seems as the the equality and "oneness" that I felt has been destroyed forever with the reality that there is a class system at work here no different from the real world and in many ways less tolerable. Like being told that your family is going on vacation but you can't go because there aren't enough seats and your brother or sister are more important than you....
First Blacksheep, WELCOME to eplaya. Glad you're here!
I can see how you are feeling about not having a ticket. I think over the next 6 months, things will loosen up and tickets will become available. In the past, when tickets were awarded, they were sent out fairly quickly. You are of course part of the family, despite being the black sheep, and with a bit of work, we will see you on the playa in August.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Blacksheep » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:40 am

It isn't not getting a ticket... or even not going if it comes to that...it's how quickly everyone turned on each other and the manner in which the BORG seems to have made decisions with little consideration for the effects that everyone saw coming but them...I still feel a connection to the people but having difficulty connecting to the event but thanks for the thoughts.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Sham » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:11 am

I can agree with you on the appearance that you're seeing. It's like all the nice happy people in a holiday mood waiting for the store to open to get "door busters" on Black Friday. Once the door opens, they will trample each other and break bones to get to the $99 jumbo TV. The good news is that they will all be happy, hugging and kissing each other at the cash registers.
I hope you like my analogy. See you at the register! :D

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Sandstorm » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:47 am

Blacksheep wrote:It isn't not getting a ticket... or even not going if it comes to that...it's how quickly everyone turned on each other and the manner in which the BORG seems to have made decisions with little consideration for the effects that everyone saw coming but them...I still feel a connection to the people but having difficulty connecting to the event but thanks for the thoughts.
Blacksheep: I have spent a lot of time on eplaya in recent days and it has been both an enlightening and disheartening experience and both sensations originate from the fact that there are so many people who care about the event and the community that creates it. I spent a lot of time here yesterday and when I got home last night I found that my brain was writing a "burner's lament" about many of the special moments that I have had at BRC, moments that had more to do with the quiet side of BRC. I found that I was reminded of the fact that BRC is a place where I feel "normal", not simply because I get to fly my freak flag but because so many people in BRC are being emotionally available in a way that reflects how I live my life in the default world. It's so refreshing to be around so many people who are being emotionally open and available. So, yeah, it broke my heart when I came across anti-virgin sentiments, first on FB and then here on eplaya. When I woke up this morning I once again felt a sense of disbelief at how f*cking out of touch a few people in BMORG / the LLC are with both the event and the people who volunteer their time and money to create the infrastructure and content for the event. I know that it's naive but even up until the lotto-ery announcement I had this sense that there were people at BMORG / the LLC who were watching over the event and the community with benevolent eyes and hands and who knew how much our HOME means to us. Alas, my naivete has been (rightfully) smashed and the incompetent and clueless machinations that lie at the heart of BMORG / the LLC have been exposed for all to see. There is no putting that Genie back in the bottle and I very much doubt that the trust that this community had in the BM leadership will ever be what it was unless the leadership chooses to burn themselves in effigy. As for the veteran Vs. virgin sentiments that have surfaced, who knows how that will play out. I've read more than a few posts in which veterans have spoken up on behalf of virgins and the contributions they have made to various theme camps and art projects. Part of me wants to get to the playa this year and part of me doesn't want to be anywhere near the place come the burn and that sucks because I love both the natural environment of the playa and the citizens and the magic that I've experienced in BRC. I hope that in the long run the damage done by this cluster f*ck will be dealt with and healed but I cannot see that happening as long as the people who made the decision about the lotto-ery are still part of the leadership team.
Shambala wrote:I can agree with you on the appearance that you're seeing. It's like all the nice happy people in a holiday mood waiting for the store to open to get "door busters" on Black Friday. Once the door opens, they will trample each other and break bones to get to the $99 jumbo TV. The good news is that they will all be happy, hugging and kissing each other at the cash registers.
I hope you like my analogy. See you at the register! :D
Shambala: That's a funny analogy and my heart tells me that the people building the city and filling the tents have the ability to realize the scenario you have painted for us. My concern is the form that BRC will take via the fiasco that has been created by a few people at BMORG / the LLC. I just keep picturing what BRC was like during the 4 years that I have been there and I imagine empty spaces where there were neighborhood bars, theme camps and art projects. This fiasco is tearing playa families apart and that both sucks and will have a very real impact on BRC 2012.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Galaxo Magic » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:16 am

monte wrote: Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich? you be the judge
:lol: monte, I get the South Park reference! Very funny......
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by ygmir » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:31 am

Galaxo Magic wrote:
monte wrote: Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich? you be the judge
:lol: monte, I get the South Park reference! Very funny......
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by MyPlayaUserName » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:58 am

Sucks to all the 'theme camps are the heart and soul of Burning Man'. Burning Man is, for me, about the power of the individual. I go alone, I leave alone. I give to others and find much joy in doing so. Burning Man's as much mine as it is the theme camps.

Also, please people STOP Using the word "commercial" about Burning Man. It is just wrong. "Mainstream" fine, but "commercial"? Nothing is being sold there, the official Burning Man merch is unchanged, 'commercial' is NOT The correct word and you people are nullifying your opinions by not knowing what the fuck you're saying.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Blacksheep » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:01 pm

Also, please people STOP Using the word "commercial" about Burning Man. It is just wrong. "Mainstream" fine, but "commercial"? Nothing is being sold there, the official Burning Man merch is unchanged, 'commercial' is NOT The correct word and you people are nullifying your opinions by not knowing what the fuck you're saying.[/quote]

With all due respect, and I do respect your opinion, commercial is what i said and what i meant. Taking an average of 350 dollars a ticket (I didn't feel like doing the math) the ticket sales alone amount to over 18 million dollars. This money is disbursed to many private enterprises and public agencies to allow BRC to come to fruition.Many of these organizations depend on the monies brought in by BRC annually for their bottom line. As has been pointed out in numerous posts here and in other threads the financial impact to the local economy of Gerlach is substantial not to mention all of the communities that lie between where ever your point of origin is and "coming home". The event has grown in popularity causing the appearance of an after market for tickets that is at least partially responsible for the 2012 ticket problems. The BM Org is a limited liability CORPORATION and as such manages the event as a business - not taking anything away from the effort they all put in or the obvious care they have for the event and the participants. Lastly, ensuring that the large theme camps and art groups are given priority the BM Org is ensuring that the "entertainment" or "talent" is there to provide the continued draw for the event ...if it were just about the individual what would be wrong with allowing everyone equal chances...That is why I used the superbowl reference... what would the superbowl be with 3 players from each side and a stage but no "star" for the halftime show...The addition of the reference of BM being like holiday shopping where everyone turns on each other vying for gifts is also very on point.

I love the event, the people and the event. I miss it all year long and think frequently of when I can return but when I say there is a bit of a COMMERCIAL feel this year that is exactly what I meant ...Just because they arent selling trinkets inside the gate doesn't mean I don't know what the fuck i am saying....

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Wrath » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:03 pm

robrob wrote:just a heads up, for everyone that thinks amtrak is a clever way to travel.

the train from chicago to reno last year was massively late (30+ hours IIRC; and our EEs were on that train).
the return train from reno to chicago was just straight up canceled.

proceed with caution.

Really? I've been taking Amtrak two to three times a month for around ten years. That's never happened to me! I regularly hop on the bus-train-bus solution from San Francisco to Reno & always see the Zepher in route to and from Reno around Roseville.

Also you can also get a private room on that train, just like in Harry Potter! It's cheaper than a plane ticket and meals are included. If you have the time, why fly?

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by lucky420 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:12 pm

The train from San Francisco or Sac to Reno is a straight shot though. Meaning no other train stations to stop at for passengers getting on and off. Traveling from the mid west to Reno is quite a bit different because of all the other stops in between...more reasons for arrival/departure delays.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by robrob » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:13 pm

Ask havoc about her experience with the train! :mrgreen:

http://eplaya.burningman.org/memberlist ... le&u=42502


( i bring it up specifically because the poster is also from the midwest and would probably be on that same route)
Last edited by robrob on Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Wrath » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:36 pm

lucky420 wrote:The train from San Francisco or Sac to Reno is a straight shot though. Meaning no other train stations to stop at for passengers getting on and off. Traveling from the mid west to Reno is quite a bit different because of all the other stops in between...more reasons for arrival/departure delays.
I couldn't agree more, but bad apples don't ruin the bunch. Friday when I was on my way back I saw the westbound Zepher pulling into Roseville & it seemed to be on time.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Wrath » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:43 pm

lucky420 wrote:The train from San Francisco or Sac to Reno is a straight shot though. Meaning no other train stations to stop at
It's not the twenty-six stations east, but Amtrak does make stops between San Francisco and Reno.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by pink » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:47 am

Blacksheep wrote:Also, please people STOP Using the word "commercial" about Burning Man. It is just wrong. "Mainstream" fine, but "commercial"? Nothing is being sold there, the official Burning Man merch is unchanged, 'commercial' is NOT The correct word and you people are nullifying your opinions by not knowing what the fuck you're saying.
With all due respect, and I do respect your opinion, commercial is what i said and what i meant. Taking an average of 350 dollars a ticket (I didn't feel like doing the math) the ticket sales alone amount to over 18 million dollars. This money is disbursed to many private enterprises and public agencies to allow BRC to come to fruition.Many of these organizations depend on the monies brought in by BRC annually for their bottom line. As has been pointed out in numerous posts here and in other threads the financial impact to the local economy of Gerlach is substantial not to mention all of the communities that lie between where ever your point of origin is and "coming home". The event has grown in popularity causing the appearance of an after market for tickets that is at least partially responsible for the 2012 ticket problems. The BM Org is a limited liability CORPORATION and as such manages the event as a business - not taking anything away from the effort they all put in or the obvious care they have for the event and the participants. Lastly, ensuring that the large theme camps and art groups are given priority the BM Org is ensuring that the "entertainment" or "talent" is there to provide the continued draw for the event ...if it were just about the individual what would be wrong with allowing everyone equal chances...That is why I used the superbowl reference... what would the superbowl be with 3 players from each side and a stage but no "star" for the halftime show...The addition of the reference of BM being like holiday shopping where everyone turns on each other vying for gifts is also very on point.

I love the event, the people and the event. I miss it all year long and think frequently of when I can return but when I say there is a bit of a COMMERCIAL feel this year that is exactly what I meant ...Just because they arent selling trinkets inside the gate doesn't mean I don't know what the fuck i am saying....
Ok, pet peeve of mine: LLC stands for LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY, not 'Corporation'.

There is a difference.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by tattoogoddess » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:05 am

Well idk then. My Amtrak ticket is booked before it is any more expensive. I come in early Sunday ( i think like 11am) So it does give me quite a bit of leeway. And when I come back I get in early early thur morning. I am off until sat night. So I do have leeway both ways. But the 30 hour lay up on the way in would fuck me up quite a bit!!
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by quadraspleen » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:12 am

Colonel Monk wrote:
quadraspleen wrote:Jesus Christ people. What a load of codswallop has been written here (not that quote just below - that's good shit, right there from Col. Monk - I salute you, Sir!)
Colonel Monk wrote: I don't know, my first year was in 2007, some very nasty storms that year, I managed to not die and even have some fun during the storms. The truth is, it ain't
THAT hard out there, even in dust storms.
That, right there from Col. Monk, folks is the rub AFAIAC.

jake out - peace
BTW, quadraspleen - that quote above is NOT my quote - it was me quoting vargaso and inadvertently mangling the quote....

I know; I have already apologised for that. Please do not think I am impugning you or anything you have said. I was actually applauding that quote

Not sure what you liked or disliked about it so much but know that I didn't write that part of it. Those dust storms were pretty wicked - the only good thing about them was that I was about to die from heatstroke a few times that week and in fact the blotting out of the sun was IMHO, a better alternative. I don't mind a good storm but that's me.

I did say somewhere else on eplaya in this thread or another that maybe a few good storms this year might restore a bit of balance to the event, a little yin yang or whatever you'd like to call it. Inasmuch as for some people, the dust is a gamebreaker - and with tickets in short supply if people don't want to get dusty then it's easier for me to get a ticket.

Again, I agree with this. If anyone doesn't go it makes it easier to get a ticket

That's a far cry from whatever wishes someone else might have made for harmful dust storms during exodus. I did not wish that, I don't know who did. So don't go quoting me and talking about that shit in the same post without clarification.

If you re-read my post, I wasn't specifically quoting anyone saying stuff like that; I misread the intention/meaning of that quote from sonebody else. I have also apologised for that. The sentiment I wrongly attributed to somebody else with that quote (not you) IS indicative of a part of the dialog on this site. Please don't dispute that. I do not have any beef with you, the BORG, nor any other ePlaya mamber (or human being, at ths point in time!) but I will call it how I see it. I will try not to oiffend, but some ppl are easily offended

If flaming was was your intent, you are off base - thanks for taking MY post woefully out of context, where in fucking fact, I went out in those choking dust storms in 2007 with BR rangers to assist the community with giving folks a bearing as to where they were, and where they could find some shelter, and guiding in an ambulance in a whiteout to assist the boy with the broken arm.

Dude - take a breath! You obv haven't read my post properly or at all if you a) think my intent is to flame you. Or b) to flame anyone else. Read my follow-ups dude before actually making those kind of accusations. In fact, do what you've asked me to do! My intent was (is) to try and expose a bit of hypocrisy within these ranks. No, it may not be my place to do so, but there we go. I did NOT insult you! I was actually agreeing with a quote you didn't make, and I hacve already apologised to you (and the OP)


Again, what's horrible for some is OK for others, I wasn't really that bothered by the dust storm, but then again, I had my storm equipment with me and many people in the city were struggling because they didn't. I don't wish people to be harmed in dust storms, for the record.

Again, I know this. I was agreeing with you (or not you, as it turns out!) NOT flaming you for being insensitive or wishing ill to anybody as you seem to think

I'm sorry that you're so bent out of shape that some of us out there in BRC don't want to be displaced from the city so that people who read about the event in Time Magazine can come on a whim and experience it. But truth be told, I don't really care.

Oh please, dude. I'm not bent out of shape; some of you lot are! Again, you seem not to have properly read my posts or understood my sentiments at all, and are now steaming for a row with me. Breathe, dude. I DO think that some people feel that they are more deserving of a ticket than others for many reasons. It is just this I take issue with.

I don't think anybody should be GLAD that this is happening, nor do I feel happy that people are being "displaced" from BM. But that's not what's happening, is it? People are unable to get a ticket for an event they have been attending for, in some cases, many years. That's all. Nobody died. Nobody is being "displaced" in the way that ppl who lived in New Orleans were displaced after katrina, or ppl are being displaced in some parts of sub-saharan Africa by war and famine.
And before you try and excuse my impertinence by suggesting that I: a) obviously haven't felt the magic; b) aren't a real burner; c) have only been twice d) any other reason again, please! I am merely stating my opinions (like you are). I have tried (occasionally) to be both objective and polite. Sure, i swear a lot and appear to blow-hard, but I'm a big softie at heart; but I really think you've got the wrong end of the stick with what I'm trying to say, or who it's aimed at..

And for the record, again: I have never seen anything about BM in Time Magazine (I don't read it) I will re-state what i kep saying elsewhere: WE MADE BM POPULAR. If that is now pissing you off; please don't blame me for it..I didn't give an interview to TM..and actually, I think you'll find a few more quotes from the LLC in publications like Time, the NYT and LAT...Blame them for talking about the event! But actually, don't even blame them! It is what it is..Get used to it!


You went on about it always being a limited ticket event - yeah, it is now, but this has not happened before last year, and though I'm not clued in to everyone's ticket story from last year, it seems that there wasn't too many that could not find a ticket last year. This is a NEW problem, and will need to be handled with NEW solutions!


Again, I totally agree with you, but I think I said that "everyone didn't always get in before" I think you'll find this is true..The first year I went (2009) there were a significant number of ppl, both in SF before the event, and actually at Will Call scouring fo rtix..Ask the BORG..Still; semantics, dude..it IS a limited access event now


Notice how many times I've mentioned the Time Mag article and the Youtube videos on various threads - And I've tried to make the point that I'm not talking about every noob who comes thru the gates. Noobs are not all created equal, those who come here several months in advance to learn about this endeavor have my respect, and their motivations for attending the event are sound. So it should be distinguishing who I've been referring to when I say idiot gaper noob yahoo. I supposed in your principled land of all or nothing, this is too much.

Agreed again. I think you seem to have taken my rant (and that's what/all it is - I hold no sway over anyone - thank the lord!) personally and think I am attributing all of the newb resentment at you..Take a chill-pill, dude..Go and lie down..I have no "principled land of all or nothing" For fucks sake, dude..You are completley missing my point, and now doing what you earlier accused me of..Please!!


If you still don't agree, that's fine, let's disagree. This ain't some kind of hippie love fest where everyone can get what they want. You think I suck because I feel that I've put in my time and I want to keep contributing, and to do that I need a ticket. Sorry, I do feel a slight sense of entitlement because I've put in the time and suffered to see my projects come to fruition. I can't wait to put in more time and 2X commitment. The argument that we should allow any old/new yahoo to attend is a less-defensible point in my opinion.

I refer you to my answers above. Jesus christ! :roll: I have never been flamed so much for agreeing with somebody! (or thinking I was agreing with somebody) My point with ref to (not) your point was this (read my lips): I do not think BM is too hard for anyone who actually takes the time to bring their brain to the event, and that discriminating against ppl just because they have not been before is disingenous. That was it. Nothing else. I was not diparaging your efforts, nor your suitability for the event, nor even your RIGHT to feel disadvantaged by the supposed influx of first-timers..Please stop mis-quoting ME!! :P

I'm not advocating that people should be PREVENTED from ever attending, but rather the number of first timers to attend in any given year might be controlled somehow to ensure that habitual burners of all classes should be able to attend. By all classes, I'm talking about those with their names on lists (theme camps) and the hefty remainder of us that contribute, but without being part of a favored group list.

I'm not sure I even addressed this issue in that way? But strangely, I agree with you (again). I do say that I feel that the "magic" 10000 is sort of ok and sort of not. But, as you have alluded to above, you think it IS ok, but under your terms, not the BORGS, as they are saying the exact same thing as you. i.e that some ppl should be given priority because of their importance to the actual fabric of the event. Or that you should be given preference because "you've put in your time" etc, etc. Again, I AM NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU!!! (sorry for shouting, but sometimes only the whites of the eyes will do!)

Cry about the first principle if you want, but that's already been compromised by the Org, and if you're not venomously outraged at those decisions no matter how much logic that decision seems to have, then STFU, because it's no different. Borg made their decisions as to who was important, and I'm voicing my opinion on the matter.

No, I will NOT STFU!!. I do disagree with the way this has been hadled by the BORG, but that's a whole seperate issue (you seem to have conflated a few here) Nor am I "crying about the First Priciple" (if you read some of my other posts, I see the TP's as a blueprint for civilised life and interaction with others; and looking after onesself) I do NOT see it as any kind of mission stayement for all Burners (if it was, we wuld not be having this conversation, as everyone would - have to - abide by it ALL THE TIME!), nor do I think it should be used as a stick to beat anyone with for any reason, positive or not..And, for the record, the BORG haven't yet made their descision as to who is "important" or not. I think some may be suprised at the results, but then that's just my opinion, nothing else..No, I have no inside info!!!


I love true burner newbs, Me too and I hate fratboy gaper "boobies!" yahoos. Me too I wish there was a quick and easy way to differentiate the two, Me too but there isn't.

Again, I agree with you. I simply disagree with the vitriol directed at newbs just because they are newbs, and I reiterate: I did not accuse YOU of this.

I think we need to start again, you and I. I only quoted a post I thought you had made, in agreement with it, and you now think I'm an uppity, twattish brit who knows nothing and has no proper grasp of the issues on the table - I assure you, nothing could be further from the truth!..I seem to have raised your hackles somewhat - for that i sincerely apologise - please come and share at least one meal wuth me on the Playa. We'll be at 8:45 and I (and I really do believe you will find your ticket..I will adress your other points in the other post or we'll just be cross-posting and quoting again!

Peace

jake out
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by quadraspleen » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:42 am

Colonel Monk wrote:
quadraspleen wrote:
Shambala wrote:
PPl will always lose, as they did before the damn, stupid, boring lottery. It's not like everyone always got in anyway is it?

jake out
Uhh, well not sure you've got the same info as everyone else. My understanding is that last year was the first year there was a population cap, WHERE the tickets actually sold out. There was no lottery last year, so we don't have a metric (do we?) of how many people wanted a ticket but couldn't get one.

Off we go again! I think, actually, no-one really knows the answer to this one. I wish I did have a line into the BORG as you suggest below..Nada, I'm afraid, but I'd be prepared to wager that at every year since c. 40k ppl started arriving, there has been an implied or real limit to the actual tickets printed..

This year is that defining moment: knowing that they would sold out.

Cheers to you mate - it sounds like you've got a line on several tickets since you and your camp gamed the system. I'm glad to hear that you feel sure that are going to get a ticket, but those of us who did not game the system don't feel as secure about it as you.

Nope. And I didn't "game" the system, the system "gamed" itself by becoming a lottery. Not my decision, dude..Yes, I "played" the game..You can't blame me for that; we have about twenty ppl in our camp, and I knew that we wouldn't all get tix, for the same reason you articulate above, so I asked for two. I got none. Luckily, my other campmates also "played" that "game" I really can't see how this is a problem..All of the tix we asked for are going to ppl. There are still four or five p-pl in our camp don't have tix; I am just a bit more positive in my ticketing availablity outlook, so to speak


I hope you're right, but keep in mind that it was Borg themselves that came up with the 40% noob number, NOT US. And I for one, don't believe it They based that on information from the survey, and of course that assumes that people answered truthfully.

Which, if you were Aunt Muriel proxying for your Burner nephew or niece, you may not have done - in the same way that a lot of "true" burners "gamed" the system by asking for two tix..I only applied for two as I knew we would need them..I don't feel I have got tix on anyones "shoulders" (I didn't as I din't "win" any! I was gifted by another of our crew..he didn't have to gift me..I didn't ask for his "extra" ticket, he offered it)


I'm on your side, dude..Please don't mistake me for the "enemy" <3 <3 <3

Peace

jake out
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by quadraspleen » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:23 am

pink wrote:
Ok, pet peeve of mine: LLC stands for LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY, not 'Corporation'.

There is a difference.
A huuuuge one. Both in the eyes of the law and the eyes of the govt..
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by quadraspleen » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:26 am

MyPlayaUserName wrote:Sucks to all the 'theme camps are the heart and soul of Burning Man'. Burning Man is, for me, about the power of the individual. I go alone, I leave alone. I give to others and find much joy in doing so. Burning Man's as much mine as it is the theme camps.
Hear, hear. say it loud. BM IS YOURS, OURS, HIS and HERS. IT IS NOT "THEIRS"!! It "belongs" to no-one and needs to stay that way..If it "belongs" in any real sense of the word, it "belongs" to the ppl who STARTED it and who are now getting so much, sometimes deserved, flak for daring to CHANGE it..Change is always hard..I (really do) hate change...But then I'm a grumpy forty-something; I'm allowed LOL!

jake out

p.s I disagree with your appraisal of the word commercial for the same reason(s) as Blacksheep above - Without trying to be clever, go look it up in a dictionary..I don't think anyone can accuse BM of being commercialised, but it IS a commercial event; if it wasn't it'd be free like all the old festivals in the UK used to be...Jeez, even Woodstock cost $18 (equivalent to $75 in today's money!)
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by quadraspleen » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:59 pm

I do have sympathy dude..I didn't have a ticket and was as scared as the rest of those who still don't. I'm not stirring the pot; I've only been defending the rights of anyone to actually hold a ticket without feeling like a heel; first-timer or not. No-ones gloating, dude.

I am absolutely fucking crazy in love that I have a ticket. I'm not sure that precludes me from participating on these "ticket" threads..I only got gifted mine last week ferchrissakes! Yes, I asked for two, but got none. Think of my gifted ticket as coming from a spouse (though he's my best mate, he's nearly a spouse lol) About a third of our camp still don't have tix, though strangely, they are ALL from the USA :?: (go and conspiracy therory about THAT :shock: )

I am not suggesting I can feel anyones pain. Never have. For what its worth, I do. I was as likely not to have had a ticket as everyone else.

And the last point, I wasn't arguing; simply defending myself when challenged about stuff (as is our right) I will help out both now and on the Playa in any way I can.

As you say, see you on the Playa :wink:

EDIT: sorry about the red, too :D It seemed easy to see and I like red
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Sandstorm » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:17 pm

Colonel Monk & Quadraspleen: Watching you guys hash it out in this thread has been like watching a good session at Thunderdome. For what it's worth, you both seem to have your hearts and heads in the right places even if you both seemed to be out of sync with reading and responding to one another's posts. I'm glad that the lack of sync came to an end and you guys see eye to eye.

Monk: I hope that you end up acquiring a ticket for this year's burn. Your passion for the evident in your posts.

Quadra: I hope that you're crew ends up with the tickets you need to make your camp a reality. Did you pick the address for your camp just because it's a place that's out of the way?

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Eric » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:49 pm

Sandstorm wrote:Colonel Monk & Quadraspleen: Watching you guys hash it out in this thread has been like watching a good session at Thunderdome. For what it's worth, you both seem to have your hearts and heads in the right places even if you both seemed to be out of sync with reading and responding to one another's posts. I'm glad that the lack of sync came to an end and you guys see eye to eye.
I've got to agree. In an easily overheated thread during a very overheated period you two both have done an admirable job of hashing it out without getting nasty. Your posts could be used to teach lessons in how to say what you feel you need to while showing "internet manners".
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by theCryptofishist » Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:39 pm

quadraspleen:
May I offer burgin, bergin, burrgin, birjin, birjen, birjun, brjn... You've barely scratched that surface...
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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