Why do people walk straight thru camps?

DogBoy · Post by **DogBoy** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:58 pm

I would like to hear some opinions/experiences with regard to the people that just walk in a straight line to where they are going, regardless of if that path takes them right through someone elses' camp. Our camp saw an amazing number of these people this year. They just truck on past, no hello, no wave, nothing.
On the one hand, I personally feel it is rude to just walk thru somebody elses private camp. Theme camp or just a group of tents, these are the places that people are living while in BRC. In the real world, I don't like when people walk through my front or back yard, and would be really pissed if someone I didn't know walked in my front door, thru the house & out the back to hop the fence. I don't see how just because we are in BRC courtesy can be disregarded, and I am genuinely worried by the people that say "this is Burning man, there are no rules". There are in fact rules, & making a statement like that sends up a yahoo flag to me. We also had a bike and a camera stolen from our camp; so yes, I am a little suspicious of the guy walking away from my tent that I have never seen before.
Additionally, in the case of our camp, we had over 200 seperate tent guy lines within our boundries. We place the layout of tents so that guy lines are concetrated to certain areas & then try to block off those areas, so that people just don't walk thru the massive trip hazard.
This was the first thing we would say to people as they just wandered thru-"You probably don't want to go that way-there are a lot of trip hazards." About 80% of the wanderers look blankly at us, & kept on going. Several of them tripped, which gave me a laugh. A few apologized & found another way around. Some were geniunely rude to us, like the guy that told us we "weren't into the spirit of Burning Man" (I know many people are wondering what exactly that is), and then spent the rest of the week intentionally walking thru our camp. Whatever that spirit is, I am pretty sure that going out of your way to be an asshole is not it. Poeple like that made me understand perfectly why Gigsville put up barbed wire. I was sorry I hadn't brought any.
By mid week, we adopted what I think to be a very BRC response to these people; anyone we saw just walking thru our camp was accosted by every available member of camp & forced to participate in our art project. The people that went out of their way to avoid that were truly marked as yahoos.
The people that actually stopped and said hello to us recieve the brunt of our hospitality. Our camp motto is "Eat this, drink this, smoke this". People that say hello would be given a drink (water or otherwise), offered a smoke or a toke, & depending on the time of day fed dinner or breakfast. Many of the best friends I have met at BRC were gained this way. The ones that just truck on by never got any of this.
So, did others have this problem as bad as we did? How did you deal with it? If you are one of the wanderers, why do you do this?
I am torn between comepletly fencing off our camp next year, or building a series of motion sensor activaited small flame throwers around our perimeter. Go ahead & cut thru, just watch your hair.
We pride ourselves on being very hospitable camp. Come to visit & we will make sure you enjoy yourself. If you are just using us a a sidewalk, you will be treated in accordance to your behavior.

PetsUntilEaten · Post by **PetsUntilEaten** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:31 pm

This seems to happen everywhere - with the exception being camps that specifically block against it by using cars or fences.

People just flow through where they can. I often cut through camps that were sparse on Sunday before the event - but around Wednesday stopped as the city became more dense & I thought some areas implied more privacy - such as areas that people shower & consider the inside of their camps.

If it really gets you - that orange snow/trash fence stuff - even one wall of it well placed fixes it.

(Yeah I know - I don't like that I have to put my name on my stapler - but after 20 staplers vanish from the same spot - whatcha gonna do?)

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:40 pm

Dogboy? Dogboy!

Ranger Dogboy?

DogBoy · Post by **DogBoy** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:06 pm

Nope, not Ranger DogBoy. Sorry.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:28 pm

I think it's because we all know the property lines will vanish in a week.

Property just doesn't feel real out there, you know?

Regardless, I always sought the road-route first and had to restrain my husband - on numerous occaisions - from just toodling through someone else's front yard. I just couldn't get him to understand that people feel territorial about their camps. Maybe I'll have to ask him what he thinks about it.

When people went through our camp I just made them converse with me for a second. "Hi there! How are you, my name is Lydia, what's yours? Wow what a great outfit darling, you look delicious!"

I didn't really care whether or not they "got it" that they were going through my camp - I just made interaction of some sort my own personal toll for going through.

PJ · Post by PJ » Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:53 pm

> Why do people walk straight thru camps?

Because it shortens their walking distance.

Worse things have happened to campsites than strolling louts. One year at the Oshkosh fly-in a Doctor (yes, yet another Doctor in a Beech Bonanza) thought his engine was running rough. So right in the middle of the parking/camping area he climbs out of his airplane with the engine running to do a look-see under the hood. God only knows what he thought he might possibly see in there. Anyway the idling airplane started rolling and bumped its way over the grass toward a tent where its propeller cut a napping woman's legs off.

RebA! · Post by **RebA!** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 10:23 pm

I "walked" thru a camp area once. But I really didnt realize i was doing it til i was part of the way thru it. I took a turn on what I thought was the street I needed, however it was actually a "driveway" for a camp. I was just heading toward the blinky lite that was in the center of our camp area. And thier camp just happened to be in between point a and point B. It wasnt a intentional thing.. but it happened.

Flux · Post by **Flux** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 10:33 pm

Yeah, cutting through camps intentionally is pretty rude. I don't even think it's a matter of territoriality -- I've never had a problem walking into a camp anywhere and saying, "What's up?" or "I'm looking for so-and-so" or "Can anybody spare a smoke / some water / whatever?", nor do I have any problem with people walking into my camp and doing the same. It's when people walk through without so much as a nod that it seems to just fuck with the space. Not bad, wrong, evil, or anything like that; just not very cool.

...anyone we saw just walking thru our camp was accosted by every available member of camp & forced to participate in our art project. The people that actually stopped and said hello to us recieve the brunt of our hospitality. Our camp motto is "Eat this, drink this, smoke this". People that say hello would be given a drink (water or otherwise), offered a smoke or a toke, & depending on the time of day fed dinner or breakfast.

Damn! Remind me to cut through your camp next year! In fact, I might camp nearby just so I can do so several times a day!

Yours was a very cool response to annoying problem. Good on you for not letting the assholes turn you into assholes!

Angry Butterfly · Post by **Angry Butterfly** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 10:48 pm

I really tried not to do it, then one day in a sandstorm I did because there was a big blank space and it looked like a road. It was a total accident.

nick · Post by **nick** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 1:29 am

Our camp was located on a corner near a big camp and we had dozens of people cut through our camp.

Cutting around our main dome wasn't that big a deal, but as Dogboy experienced, many people walked through our personal camp area without care -- tripping over tent guy lines, walking into stored water and fuel, and at one point, stepping through a construction site (dome tear down) and onto a pile of mylar insulation!

Almost everyone we tried to engage or ask not to cut either ignored us or were rude. Several people rode bikes into our caution tape, breaking it. Some stuff got stolen. And one couple took the time to yell at me for about five or ten minutes, turning a simple request to not walk through our camp into an excuse to attack me and of course claim that I didn't get the true spirit of Burning Man ;>

It's all just invisble lines so the idea of getting too posessive seems silly, BUT with people willing to walk over building materials and into stacks of fuel we plan on bringing a lot more fencing next year.

If we even bother to build another theme camp.

-nick-

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 1:47 am

In my camp's case, we allowed easements on both sides, one of which directly connected Esplanade with Authority. Because of the overall clutter, it was easier for most travellers to just use the easements.

Stormy · Post by **Stormy** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:16 am

casnimot wrote:In my camp's case, we allowed easements on both sides, one of which directly connected Esplanade with Authority. Because of the overall clutter, it was easier for most travellers to just use the easements.

Smart.

Sometimes people are lazy and sometimes it's difficult to get from point A to point B. Due to some sloppy BRC placement, camps that were supposed to be near a road, ended up not being next to a road which made it necessary to cut through neighboring camps. The original camp that I was supposed to camp with was supposed to have a road on the front and back. Because of placement issues some camps that arrived midweek had to be placed where a road was supposed to be. Had to cut through them to get to my camp. Thankfully one of them allowed a walkway, all the rest were obstacle courses.

Booker · Post by **Booker** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 7:58 am

>>series of motion sensor activaited small flame throwers

I like this idea! (Although maybe something more benign than flamethrowers?) Something that lets them know they passed a boundary--pretty lights, scary sounds, whatever--would be cool. And it would add art. And it would let you know when someone's skulking around by the tents.

I also like your impromptu response--engage the people in the project they decided to tromp through. Very burny, imo.

Ultimately, I think Casnimot's right: Set up so some obvious space is left to walk through, then bunch other stuff together so it's easier to go the way you want them to go. Can't block the flow, but mebbe you can channel it.

Ivy · Post by **Ivy** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:17 am

Set up so some obvious space is left to walk through, then bunch other stuff together so it's easier to go the way you want them to go.

Our villiage was so big, we had to do this. Otherwise, epople would have been walking through camps left and right. We ended uip making our own major street, running from Dogma to Faith. It was wide enough for vehicle acess; ocassiobaly an art car would drive down it, thinking it was 6:30. My tent was right on the street; sometimes, to make it easier for people to find me, I told them I lived at 6:23.

portazo · Post by **portazo** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 10:30 am

I guess I like to think that our community on the playa is different than what we live in the rest of the year. I do walk occasionally straight through somewhere, not to disrespect/trespass/steal, but because I don't believe boundries in BRC are the same like back home. I don't understand camps that put up walls, especially that orange plastic stuff.

(I realize I'm sticking my neck out here!)

DogBoy · Post by **DogBoy** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 12:13 pm

I would agree 100% that:
1) Our community is different
2) Boundries in BRC are not the same as the permanent world

As said at the beginning of the thread, my big concern is safety. Guy wires, rebar, flamethrowing cars or people, there are lots of things in any given camp that can be dangerous. I don't want to stop having fun because I have to help somebody look for their teeth that were knocked out when they cut through & tripped in a spiderweb of wires. I guess a good example would be the (now long departed-ah, the good old days) drive-by shooting range; only a fool would cut through there.

I'm not a fan of the orange silt fence either, unless it fits your camp theme. We try to keep our fencing matching our camp (all green, army tents). I just wish we didn't have a need for it.

(Thanks for sticking your neck out-I like hearing all sides.)

Ivy · Post by **Ivy** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 12:17 pm

I don't believe boundries in BRC are the same like back home.

I kind of see your point here and can respect that. But I can also respect people that don't want randoms walking through their camp and therefore put up orange fence, etc. As far as I can recall, in our camp, for example, Radio electra has always been "fenced off" like that. There are major generators and lots of equipment--keeps the random thief factor down and people frompossibly getting hurnt on equipment.
I can also respect someone inquiring as to why you are walking through their camp. Of cource I've waled through camps before (usually out of ignorance--there was likely some sort of sapce that I thought was a path) and if anyone called out to me I explained myself and they were cool with it, either letting me pass or directing me elsewhere. i can respect that too.

Sometimes, people encouraged me to cut through their camps, which was pretty cool.

Lucifer · Post by **Lucifer** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 12:26 pm

Ivy wrote:We ended up making our own major street, running from Dogma to Faith. It was wide enough for vehicle acess; ocassiobaly an art car would drive down it, thinking it was 6:30. My tent was right on the street; sometimes, to make it easier for people to find me, I told them I lived at 6:23.

I love that. We really wanted to be placed on a corner, but we weren't, so we created our own street running from Creed to Dogma. As luck would have it, it fed directly into our neighbors at the Black Rock Wedding Chapel - the side leading away from the chapel bore the name "Least Resistance", and the side leading to the chapel bore the name "Perdition". It was awesome to hear people talk about "that bar on the corner of Creed and Perdition"...

baubles · Post by **baubles** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 1:05 pm

At what point does a camp become a village, and then how large before the village is the city? And then, can we not walk around anywhere? The camps that wanted folks out seemed to find a way to do it, and everyone knows who they are and generally avoids those people. Put up some barb wire, or chase me with a prickly tumbleweed remote controlled car, and I'll stay away. But good grief, if you've got 900 square feet of "property" out there, folks are going to accidentally stumble through. Boundaries seem really tricky in BRC, and I just can't imagine anyone getting so upset over folks crossing their line. (and I got chased by Dismal's tumbleweed while I was walking down Revered, not in their camp, they were just being funny, but it hurt, I had 12 spiky splinters in my hand from trying to stop it from ramming into my leg again.)

I don't think it is intentional, you just think, "This has to be the end of this camp, I'll cut between them", but it's a village, and everyone's camped together. It can be a little tough to tell. We were camped behind the Death Guild and they took up a lot of esplanade space and went almost all the way back to Authority (with us squeezed in between). Everytime I left our camp, I would go down to either Revered or Rediculous. I wouldn't think of cutting through anyone's camp, especially the Death Guild. But, several times when I was coming home, I would just be walking along, realize that I was at the Thunderdome, and just turn down their little street that cut to the back of their site, cuz it seemed like a street. I'd be distracted by some crazy costume, or art car. I'm strolling along, looking around and realizing that I'm walking right through a post-apocolyptic "fight to the death" camp. I apologized, got to know my neighbors, sat down and talked with them, explained that I had some disorder, where I could only return home through their camp, but that I had some meds that were helping. No one was really angry, or if they were they were fantastic actors, but I didn't cut through any other camps that way, it was just something about that route???

Anywho, for what it's worth, I don't think everyone that cuts through "your" camp is intending to walk through "your" space. One of the biggest emotional aspects of the playa for me is the sense of community. I feel at home everywhere out there. I'm not going to climb into your tent and take a nap, but I hope not to get shot for walking through your back yard. That's why I escape from Georgia!

btw, everyone we met at death guild was really cool, and we enjoyed camping near them, our neighborhood was great. we did have strangers stumble through here and there. just asked um where they were headed, and guided them on their way. All just a part of interacting with the peeps!

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 1:44 pm

I had my truck and trailer parked side by side with a tarp over the space in between. The trailer door opened to a space that led between camps and became an alleyway...with quite a bit of traffic. Next year I plan to reconfigure the structures for more privacy and bring the orange safety fence. I will keep it as close to the truck and trailer as I can...to keep the overall footprint to a minimum but I definitely plan some privacy upgrades next year. I don't want to have people peeking in on us sleeping and I have to use the tazer or mil spec pepper spray on 'em.

I tried to avoid walking through camps too but sometimes it happens. The key is to make the effort and apologize if anyone asks questions. I dislike the fuckwits like others mentioned who go through the middle of things, trip on your stuff and don't say anything on the way through.

dj big E · Post by **dj big E** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:21 pm

we wen't the orange fence trash barrier route and it worked out great we put a 3 foot high section of it about 65% around are camp which was a semi circle of rv's and tents.on the open part of the circle we had two entrances that lead wright to our dome which had free nitros and alchohol sorry no food besides most visitors ended up with a mouth ful of dirt we had huge baloons lmao.by the way a 80lb nitros tank under constant use made it till sunday what a hoot lmao.Anyways back to subject we had zero people actually try to cut all the way through and still had alot of visitors as well as no one entering or exiting our camp from the fence side zero theft and a great time it gives you a feeling of security during burns and other events were the bulk of the city is gone from camp.As well as only one way in and out for our friends from washoe county sherrifs and the blm and i do mean friends,hey they got a job to do i just don't half to make it easier.By the way our dome had a pair of legs out front as well as a 74 foot tower behind our rv with alot of lights and one big green arrow on the top.so back to original thought i believe everyone has a right to say hi enter or walk into a campsite to do any of the above without at least a hi is just rude alot of people strolled into our tent and helped themselves to a baloon and a drink without a hi or even a coolguy nod lmao.luckily those are the people that hit and run those that said hi got treeted with other goodies lmao fungi etc etc you get it. well i better stop typing so someone actually reads my post.one last thing lmao i watched at least 2 people run into our tower guide wires even though we had cautin tape orange flags and gatorade bottles on everystake .good for a couple of laughs. cya soon dj big "E"

OregonRed · Post by **OregonRed** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 7:40 pm

I camp with DogBoy (I'm married to him so it tends to make the experience far easier), and I'd like to say that we NEVER turned away anyone who came in a just said "hi", nor were we intentionally shitty to people walking thru our camp. Members of our own theme camp were tripping over guy wires, and they knew where they were placed!

I personally tried to be really cool to anyone who wandered thru camp even when it was to accost them for cutting thru camp to take part in our art project (after all we're the military, we can force participation!). I had people start out really pissed off that I had the balls to stop them from cutting thru my "living room" and end up being people that would cut thru camp to stop and see how things were going, smoke a bowl, and have a conversation with the members of our camp.

So, I guess my point is that if you just stop and talk to the people whose home you are walking through, it makes all the difference!

PetsUntilEaten · Post by **PetsUntilEaten** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 7:45 pm

Red -

true. true.

Admittedly when I took the b-line straight to the bathrooms when the place was still sparse - I often used as an excuse to say hello to my neighbors & check in on their projects. Especially for people who weren't my immediate neighbors.

cheers -

pets

antron · Post by **antron** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:06 pm

i think it's really confusing to be out for a walk, turn at what seems like a path between other camps, and suddenly find yourself in someone else's camp.

and then you make it better by accosting these confused people? wtf?

maybe there's a way to design a solution to the problem, maybe make it obvious with a fence or flowerbed, or array of gnomes that the apparent path through your sacred piece of playa is actually not.

and have a cocktail, and kick back a bit.

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:14 pm

antrony wrote:i think it's really confusing to be out for a walk, turn at what seems like a path between other camps, and suddenly find yourself in someone else's camp.

and then you make it better by accosting these confused people? wtf?

maybe there's a way to design a solution to the problem, maybe make it obvious with a fence or flowerbed, or array of gnomes that the apparent path through your sacred piece of playa is actually not.

and have a cocktail, and kick back a bit.

I try to mark off the space, there are some areas that I make it clear that if your in there you shouldn't be. Next year I'll have the Tazer Zone warning up to reinforce the message.

But to the ones I still caught cutting through, I've said Hi and ended up meeting some great people that way. I've run into maybe 3 fuckwits in 2 years who cut across with a fuck you attitude but I was lucky, other camps heard my conversations with them and gave 'em hell as they passed by. I didn't have to lift a finger or say anything, the carma gods struck quickly.

Again next year I'm approaching base camp like I used to build my childhood army forts, the shortcut problem will not exist if I can help it.

antron · Post by **antron** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:21 pm

Kinetic wrote: Again next year I'm approaching base camp like I used to build my childhood army forts

i like that image.

this year, i used twine with ductape 2"square flags every 4' staked on the playa to mark a really subtle perimeter. it worked amazingly well. no one came into the perimeter uninvited. plus it looked much better than that ghastly yellow caution tape.

OregonRed · Post by **OregonRed** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:38 pm

[quote="antrony"]i think it's really confusing to be out for a walk, turn at what seems like a path between other camps, and suddenly find yourself in someone else's camp.

and then you make it better by accosting these confused people? wtf?

ABSOFUCKINLUTELY!!!!! Our camp was fenced off at the front in such a way that it was quite obvious that it was a FENCE !!! Not to mention the TWO "Dead End" signs and the sign that said "Sidewalk Closed". If you're going to ignore all these signs AND the people in my camp you bet your sweet ass I'm going to label you a yahoo and force you to participate.

For the record people who got accosted were the people who walked through our camp w/o talking to any member of our camp and in many cases not acknowledging us when we said hello! I do feel justified in accosting these people. Sorry if that makes me a bitch.

PetsUntilEaten · Post by **PetsUntilEaten** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:40 pm

no no - red - you're right on - don't sweat it.

Juju · Post by **Juju** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 10:42 pm

We had less randoms walking through camp this year than last, thankfully. Mostly I was worried about people walking into the guy wires for the dome or tripping over the croquet setup.

I try to avoid it as much as i possibly can, because it just feels disrespectful to tromp through someone else's living space. There's obviously areas that are open for friends to come chill, but I certainly don't want to see someone skulking around my generator/shower/kitchen area.

Usually when we catch people wandering through our campsite we'll offer them some random food. People never seem to want to eat our Nori!

tbone · Post by **tbone** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:28 am

DogBoy wrote:Poeple like that made me understand perfectly why Gigsville put up barbed wire. I was sorry I hadn't brought any.

It was Camp Skynyrd, a camp in the Village of Gisville - if you want to get technical. It lasted less than an hour, as the rangers were going 100% ape-shit over it.

We arranged vehicles in a circle, and put them pretty close together. We had an obvious entrance, but people still actes like assholes. People would ride in the entrance, not see anything of their liking, then move the caution tape out of the way, and ride under it. That's damn rude.

We had lots and lots of tools around camp, and the reports of theft were coming in from the DPW a week before the man burned, so we were fairly interested in security.

Some people were lost, and we'd try and help them. Other people were just fucking rude morons. People kept walking between two of our close together tents, so we threw some bike parts (a few wheels and a frame) between them. A few people stopped walking through, but most just walked around the parts. So we put metal tubes from bike frames sticking straight up from the ground - if you tripped, you'd have gone to REMSA. People still insisted on walking through. WTF? They were using the 2' between tents where people were sleeping as a damn road. People would walk over the back of my trailer to avoid some of the things we had on the ground.

I understand that "property rights" are different at the burn, but what happened to respect? If I put up obvious "this isn't a walkway" signs, where's the respect to comply with my request for privacy?

We were less than 15 seconds from the intersection, so you wouldn't save more than 30 seconds (60 if you were in a wheelchair or walker).

For the record, I walked into camps several times - and said "sorry, I thought I was on a path" and talked to the people who lived there.

Why do people walk straight thru camps?

Why do people walk straight thru camps?

More rude people = less fun

Distracted...? Disoriented...?

dj big "E" no tresspassers please lmao

Re: Why do people walk straight thru camps?