Projecting onto the dust - or large screen ideas?

Sophi · Post by **Sophi** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:49 am

Has anyone done a projection art project that used the dust as a projection screen?
I would like to use the night dust as a screen.
I don't know if this will work though.

OR I could project onto an existing screen - can anyone suggest a camp that has a large screen for potential sharing?

Concept: large animations dance to your movements using Kinect as a platform.
Thoughts and suggestions welcome.

LOVE!
Sophi

Marscrumbs · Post by **Marscrumbs** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:16 am

I've used a portable projector with multiple screens off my trike. The dust thing won't work other than making pretty lights. There needs to be a fixed plane to focus on. And then you need a whiteout so thick you won't want to be out in it.

some seeing eye · Post by **some seeing eye** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:33 am

There was an installation like that near center camp a fe years ago. It was very engaging. The projector was in the cab of a pickup. The dancer area was set up for 1-2 people and lit, then a video camera altered the image in real time. For a screen, there are fabrics, including some, like sharkstooth scrim, that some wind can go through. Even lycra will have some stretch in the wind. Rosebrand Fabrics in LA is the source.

I think the idea works better on a small screen - say 8x8', with 1-2 dancers who can watch as they move. You could clone the display larger though. How many people can a Kinect track?

moonrise · Post by **moonrise** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:16 pm

I thought about projecting black and white movies onto the playa itself. But after last year there seemed to be too much neon and busy lighting. I think I'll just stick to my low key lighting.

Post by **trilobyte** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:20 pm

As Marscrumbs mentioned, the dust particulates in the air won't be solid enough to create the plane you'd need to project (and focus) on. But even if it was, it'd be just as thick everywhere, you wouldn't have the luxury of a relatively dust-free space between the projector and the rest of the air. Of course, if your project had some elevation to it, you might be able to project down onto the playa surface (though you'd want to make sure it was an incredibly rugged rig).

If you project onto a screen, my advice would be to make your screen out of breathable fabric (as opposed to a tarp or standard projection screen). That way when the winds kick up they'll blow through it, instead of blow it over. Good luck!

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:27 pm

I notice many screens are white spandex (lycra). No wrinkles! And you can project from the rear just as well as from the front.

BBadger · Post by **BBadger** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:26 pm

Are you trying to do something like Disney's World of Color?

[youtube][/youtube]

The problem with something like that is that your "screen" won't be fixed anywhere. Sure, you could project onto the playa itself, or onto some surface, but the dust in the air won't serve as a good medium for projection.

Now that doesn't mean you can't do something cool with the dust: just looking at the beams produced by the projector can be cool.

NodFnord · Post by **NodFnord** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:48 pm

You can project on dust, but its tricky to pull off.
If you can create laminar air flow (like the "airblade" hand dryers, basically a very thin, very fast sheet of air) then its possible to trap the dust between two of these airflows. This creates an ethereal surface on which to project. However, as a result you'll be kicking up a ton playa.
Google "cloudscreen" for reference...

PS. You could also project on a vortex of dust. Same issues though.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:57 pm

Brainstorming here.... Are we trying to create a three-dimensional effect? I wonder how it would work to have two screens, a foot or two apart. The screen nearest the projector would be somewhat transparent, and the second screen white. The offset of the two images would be determined by the position of the observer. (Maybe this was already invented 100 years ago.

)

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:05 pm

Get one of these at a garden shop

fill it with playa dust, stand on a ladder, and start cranking.

moonrise · Post by **moonrise** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:28 pm

Nice one Bob.

I've seen movies projected onto waterfalls, very cool!

Marscrumbs · Post by **Marscrumbs** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:30 am

Elliot wrote:Brainstorming here.... Are we trying to create a three-dimensional effect? I wonder how it would work to have two screens, a foot or two apart. The screen nearest the projector would be somewhat transparent, and the second screen white. The offset of the two images would be determined by the position of the observer. (Maybe this was already invented 100 years ago. )

In my luminous trike project module I used four screens of veil netting (I don't know what they call the stuff but it does remind me of an aquarium fish net.) red, green, blue, and white suspended on two boron graphite fishing poles at the different eyelets. Safety white el-wire strung along also framed the edges. Veils were slightly weigh with washes and safety pins and waved some in the gentle wind. Used an inexpensive 60w kids dvd video projector. I had my old Sony digital8 video camera on top and could monitor back in nightvision and/or special effects such as negative color imaging. I wanted to try anagraphic 3D but didn't get that far into it, though I did bring paper red/blue glasses to gift if I had. Art as an experiment can go in many directions from ones original inspiration. It was cheap, funky at best, at appropriate risk level for the playa enviroment. And it was interactive, and fun. But small so didn't attract too much attention with so many big things going on.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:40 am

Smoke shouldn't be too hard to produce, ie a smoke screem.

mshaman · Post by **mshaman** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:37 pm

It almost sounds like volumetric projection or holographic projection is the desired effect. I had a buddy that built a holographic projection system at one point... no screen, just a 3-d moving image floating in space... the problem was you needed polarized light, i.e. a laser, of significant power to make it work. I wish I knew more about what he was doing; primarily I recall that it was expensive at the time. Seems like such a system would be absolutely spectacular on the playa, assuming you could keep the optics clean... makes me want to start researching.

some seeing eye · Post by **some seeing eye** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:24 pm

Work on planar projection on a screen first. Volumetric and 3d projection, or on dust/water/pumped screens is a sticky wicket.

NodFnord · Post by **NodFnord** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:36 pm

The scrim is called "illusion" and is used for wedding veils/trains.
Most big fabric stores stock it.

Also, I'm totally down if you want to collab. I've been working along similar lines.
I've got kinect feeding into Unity3D, and it's mirroring user movements to a low poly model of the Man I made.

Sophi · Post by **Sophi** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:38 pm

Check this out!

Nodfnord where are you located?

ultratang7 · Post by **ultratang7** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:07 pm

How many Lumens would someone want for a small to medium sized projection?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:52 pm

The translucent white material that some tents and carports are made of makes a great screen.
You can project from inside a tent.

Projecting onto the dust - or large screen ideas?

Projecting onto the dust - or large screen ideas?

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