Black rocks: What does it take to drill these damn things?

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:32 pm

Lordy. These things are tough. Anyone ever try to drill a hole in the black rocks found on the playa? I'm sure it's basalt or andesite and I've tried a dremel at 35,000 RPM with zero results. I've heard that diamond drill bits will work. Does anyone know a good place to get them? Dying to get these made into necklaces so I can give them away (and so we can do them at B-man next year).

TIA

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:06 pm

Something like this should work:

http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PRO ... iral/BKG09

1/8" might be too big but you should be able to find a carbide bit in smaller sizes.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:32 pm

Thanks.

But, it says "Not for Floor Tiles" and I imagine this lava rock is harder than floor tiles.

geekster wrote:Something like this should work:

http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PRO ... iral/BKG09

1/8" might be too big but you should be able to find a carbide bit in smaller sizes.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:11 pm

okay, Mr. Smartypants ...

Take THIS:

http://www.dadsrockshop.com/dproducts.html

and scroll down a little.

tomjordanphoto · Post by **tomjordanphoto** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:37 pm

Are you even suposed to take black rocks from the playa casue maybe in a few years there will not be any more black rocks for the black rock desert. I thought it was like if you take lava from hawaii and you get bad luck. Im not sure, I just hope you dont take to many casue those rocks have been there for who know how long. I just think they belong to the desert not people that call it home for a week.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:41 pm

Are you even suposed to take black rocks from the playa casue maybe in a few years there will not be any more black rocks for the black rock desert.

You're referring to poaching which is a word assigned to plants, rocks, flowers, animals, etc. found anywhere within a national park or designated wilderness area. BLM makes rules and regs do not have such laws against taking of said specimens.

BTW, carbide tipped drill with fuid lubricant should do the trick. Start with a small sixed bit and work your way up. Going at it with anything higher than a 1/16" bit insures breakage. Andesite is as brittle as it is hard.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:47 pm

I think it is pretty much okay to take rocks from BLM land ... it's your land. National parks, designated wilderness areas, preserves, and reserves might be a different story but as far as I know, Black Rock Desert is pretty much just public owned wasteland. If you can find a use for those little black rocks, I suspect they are yours.

From a website somehere

BLM public lands offer opportunities for a wide range of recreational activities, including hiking, mountain biking, horseback riding, rock hounding, hunting, nature study, camping, off-highway vehicle exploration and boating.

Rock hounding would be the operative thingy here. Say, are horses allowed in BRC? Interesting MOOPage problems for sure.

tomjordanphoto · Post by **tomjordanphoto** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:49 pm

I was just hoping the rocks would be around so when I tell my kids about the great time I have spent in that area of the world they would know how it got its name. There are not any regulation about taking lave from hawaii either. I just hope they dont take them all.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:56 pm

I just hope they dont take them all.

Shouldn't be a problem. Geological surveys suggest that there might be as much as 0.1 quadrillion tons of the stuff scattered about parts of the basin and range region.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:59 pm

I understand your concern and if I thought there were any practical danger of it happening, would share it. Since BRC is not built in exactly the same spot every year (or at least that is my understanding) the chances of every single or even a significant quantity of the black rocks being collected by the population are pretty remote. I am going to assume that the rocks under tents, structures, and vehicles probably wont be collected nor will rocks lying just below the surface of the dust that are not visible that week.

Now if someone wanted to use one of those de-MOOPers that they use on beach sand to sift out all the rocks ... I might be a teensy bit concerned.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:10 pm

Badger wrote:
I just hope they dont take them all.
Shouldn't be a problem. Geological surveys suggest that there might be as much as 0.1 quadrillion tons of the stuff scattered about parts of the basin and range region.

Hey, Badger ... a few hundred miles Southeast of BRC I found the coolest cinder cones ... rather recent because they are still all loose and granular but still in pretty much a perfect cone ... talking about the area between Veyo and Enterprise Utah. Also, instead of andesite, the ground is scattered with the most wonderful obsidian pellets for miles around.

The kids in Veyo, legend has it, played a nice trick on the town when they hauled a tractor tire up to the top of a cinder cone there and set it on fire. Gave the town something to talk about for the past few decades.

tomjordanphoto · Post by **tomjordanphoto** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:24 pm

yea I understand there is lots of rocks but if each person just took one rock each year that 35000 missing rocks a year. Even thought not everybody takes rocks I saw a few people with hand fulls and said somthing to them but they didnt care. i read one time in a national park I think it was Zion and it said "take only pictures and leave only foot print" Maybe next year I can start a protest when they burn the man instead of save the man save the rocks and I can have a mic just to yell stupid shit. Like this is a party zone so if you are not partyting then you are not allowed in the zone. Do what ever you like. But if for some reason you have bad luck then I sugest you return the rock but everybody belives somthing diffrent. I think of the black rock desert as a very special place like Sugar beach in maui, Sycomore creek in AZ, Across the street from the store in glamis, north of the dump gila river reservation and many other place that makes me happy when I was not having the best day. i hope all your dream are what you want them to be and that is all. I might reply is I get board at work.
http://tomjordanphoto.com/danyellaphoto/
here are some pic from the last few months BM is at the bottom, they are my girl friends but I have not had time to process my own I will do them when Im old.
Peace and what ever you want.
cosmic kitty
8:45 and Mars

Lysergic · Post by **Lysergic** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:16 am

Are the rocks predominently found near the mountain or are there chunks laying out on the playa. Never noticed any....

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:42 am

They are on the playa. THey are often covered by dust so dont look for black ... look for lumps in the dust.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:13 am

Hmmm...surrounded by mountains on all sides, hundreds of miles of rocks in any direction, 2 centuries of mining going on that made no dent in the overall supply and people are worried about a few being carted off in someone's pockets?

Yawn! Non-issue. Next subject please?

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:29 am

Tancorix wrote:Hmmm...surrounded by mountains on all sides, hundreds of miles of rocks in any direction, 2 centuries of mining going on that made no dent in the overall supply and people are worried about a few being carted off in someone's pockets?

Yawn! Non-issue. Next subject please?

Ditto.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:08 am

Are the rocks predominently found near the mountain or are there chunks laying out on the playa. Never noticed any....

Primarily near the Black Rock which is appx. 15 miles down playa from where they have the event but lots of water and wave action coupled with a good deal of erosion in more temeprate times has the stuff scattered all over the place. The playa is ringed with other stuff as well including metasediments, granites, welded tuff, andesite, serpentinite and a host of other rock types that spell out the natural history of the area. If you know what you're looking at you can see that the Black Rock area has had an almost schizophrenic past. Dry desrt, high inland water body, slow (lazy) volcanic activity, glacial geomorphology, etc.

BTW, the 'non-issue' crumudgeons are reminded of their option to delete and move on.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:52 pm

On another thread I said I'm trying to weave or braid rock into a braclet. Gave up on the drill thing. When your in a white out on the playa turn your back to the storm. That's where i first discovered the little stones. The wind was skiping them along the playa floor.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:47 pm

Hey, I have a lapidary tumbler ("rock polisher") and if someone might want to send me between 1/2 to 1 lb of playa rocks to tumble, polish, and send back, I wouldn't mind running a batch for you. I have had a new one for almost a year now and haven't run a batch through it yet. Since andesite is so hard, I would ask that the entire batch be andesite so they can all be done together. Sooooo .... if you might be interested, msg me and lets talk.

I really wouldn't want to do any less or any more than what I stated above. Any less would be a waste of supplies since I really can't mix them with any other kind and any more would probably pack the tub too full to do a good job.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:56 am

Tanks for the offer to tumble. Most I have picked out to go in the ruff I have a baby tumbler (never used) around here some place. Still working on the braiding thing.

dj big E · Post by **dj big E** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:26 pm

Take all the rocks and everyone take some dirt to. Eventually will hit water and will turn it inti an aquatic event. LMAO Love to see people on sun -mon putting dirt into little bags and vials. If you go to bm and half to take samples of dirt in a bag you haven't been to bm lmao.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:14 pm

unjonharley wrote:On another thread I said I'm trying to weave or braid rock into a braclet. Gave up on the drill thing. When your in a white out on the playa turn your back to the storm. That's where i first discovered the little stones. The wind was skiping them along the playa floor.

I'm new at jewelry stuff but you can do that with rope or you can use some kind of metal to make a "cage". Alternatively, you might consider epoxy glue.

Yeah, it is not easy. I bought a dremel drill this week thinking I could use that. No dice.

So I went to the local rock shop and got some diamond coated bits and learned that you have to use them at a very low speed (100 - 300 RPM). I tried the drill press at the minimum speed (~650 RPM) but while I was able to make some significant holes that speed was tearing up the bits.

Now I'm wondering if I should try cobalt bits at all with the dremel or if I should go buy a low-speed drill (like a variable speed cordless).

Regarding removing the rocks at all: I checked to make sure it was OK at the BLM site (the limit is "one car trunk full"). Besides, rock hounding encourages MOOP removal.

We did some necklace stuff this year which people really got into and I want to do that more next year. I want to make necklaces now, at home, but I'm also hoping that next year I can let people drill holes in rocks they've found while there to make necklaces. I think it's funny that most people don't notice them.

Thanks everybody for the help. I guess I'll try some carbide bits next...

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:42 am

Old Trick. When drilling a small hole in glass. Grind the drill bit flat. Make a dike of puddy around the hole to be drilled. Mix grinding compound and a lubercant. Long & slow. Maybe some one can use this idea.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:12 am

geekster wrote: Say, are horses allowed in BRC? Interesting MOOPage problems for sure.

After the camel fiasco, I bet not. Although they may not be specifically prohibited. There are several herds of mustangs (and one of ferel burros) in the National Conservation Area. The only thing keeping them off the playa is horsesence.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:21 am

The Environmental Impact Statement for the National Conservation Area is no longer on the web, but as I recall there is a place in it where you can collect geodes. I still think those would make a nice gift, on playa.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:39 am

I found a vertebra a bout the size of a nickel. It was very old and started to crumble from my touch. I gave it to the guy in the next camp from me. I had hauled the generator out and right in front of his camp. He was peacefully reading a book. So in a act for forgiveness I gave up my fined.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:13 pm

I still think those would make a nice gift, on playa.

Especially nice if gifted (via slingshot) to Yahoos yelling "show your tits."

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:02 pm

Isotopia wrote:
I still think those would make a nice gift, on playa.
Especially nice if gifted (via slingshot) to Yahoos yelling "show your tits."

You owe me on screen cleaning. Noon coffee through the nose ROTFLMAO

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:04 pm

Isotopia wrote:
I still think those would make a nice gift, on playa.
Especially nice if gifted (via slingshot) to Yahoos yelling "show your tits."

You owe me on screen cleaning. Noon coffee through the nose ROTFLMAO

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:33 pm

unjonharley wrote:Old Trick. When drilling a small hole in glass. Grind the drill bit flat. Make a dike of puddy around the hole to be drilled. Mix grinding compound and a lubercant. Long & slow. Maybe some one can use this idea.

Well, I finally got a hole in one (no pun intended).

I used a diamond coated bit + a cordless drill which lets me control the speed (like I said earlier, the speed has to be in the 100 - 300 RPM range). So I just guessed at the speed, immersed the rock in a styrofoam cup full of water, started a hole and slowly but surely got through to the other side. I'm actually wearing the first stone now.

Anyway, do they make drill presses that run under 600 RPM? Anybody have a link?

Alternatively, I know I can get a drill press "attachment" for my dremel but it's too fast so is there a drill press "attachment" for hand drills?

Thanks again for all the advice. I'm going to try the carbide bits, too, just out of curiosity...

Black rocks: What does it take to drill these damn things?

Black rocks: What does it take to drill these damn things?

are you even suposed to fo that?

hey

Lmao