Plug & Play/Turnkey Camping

[DrYes]

Do you really NEED a Sleeping Bag? I served bar at Roller Disco and simply passed out behind it. Sounds like you need luxuries like a Sleeping Bag because you______ (insert reason you can't handle the desert here).

There's always someone burnier-than-thou who can make your burnier-than-thou attitude look stupid.

Exactly my point.

I don't know anyone who attends Burning Man who doesn't bring things they don't strictly need for survival with them. If a tent is ok, an air conditioner is ok.

[DrYes]

No, I don't NEED a tent, hence using the word "pimp."

I hear that pimpin' ain't easy. Good prep for the playa.

Anyone can want to have an RV, or AC, or a personal shade structure, or a tent, or a sleeping bag they can roll out on the Playa, but we don't need these. Actually, it does suck when it gets down into the 40's with a wind chill and you don't have any cover or a sleeping bag.

Yep, very true. It's all about levels of comfort once you're past the "i have water" barrier.

[PapaBear2120]

No, I don't NEED a tent, hence using the word "pimp."

I hear that pimpin' ain't easy. Good prep for the playa.

With Fertility 2.0 around the corner, there better be some pimping going on. Roll out the purple shag carpet.

[stinkyfoot]

Based on the videos and anecdotes and our own personal experiences, what ideas do we have and what can we suggest to the Org and to these camps (again, in general) to help them integrate into the ways of Burning Man? If you feel they're doing it all wrong, what constructive ideas do you have to help them turn things around and do things right?

While walking around BRC last year, it struck me how the way camps end up grouping so closely echoes the state of the default world. The presence of the theme camp gives a distinctly urban feel to a street, areas farthest away from theme camps have that more neighborhood like feel, and the walk in camping area is clearly some place out in the boonies for men with long beards and ladies who are really good at canning. And, like default world cities, usually the outgoing and connected end up in the urban areas, the loners and chilled out types end up in the rural areas, and designers and engineers in the suburbs.

My partner and I ended up on 8:30 and I, which is kind of close to the action, we had our neighborhood bar, a coffee shop and a tea house, but lots of folks camping out in small groups with a couple of tents of a trailer. It was a whole lot like the small suburb areas that are located close to city centers but not in the middle of downtown. It was also hilariously similar to where we choose to live in the default world and we really liked living there, even though it had it's problems, we had to really negotiate for our campsite, like suburbs the defaultia, suburbs in BRC tend not to make the most efficient use of space. We liked the theme camp areas too, but found them to be very impersonal.

So my point is that if BRC is getting so big that it's starting to bear strong resemblance to the urban to rural living range in the default world, then maybe it's time to talk city planning. Treat the people who organize PnP camps and the theme camp organizers (I say to include the theme camps in this as well because there is some overlap between PnP and theme camp, as discussed) like large urban developers and work with them to create a good feel in the downtown areas. Have a discussion about living styles, their pros and cons, and make it as much about finding creative solutions to living arrangements in defaultia as finding ways to make BRC better. Fuck, this place is a creative civic planner's wet dream.

And also, while having this discussion, talk about how living in BRC relates to the ten principals, talk both to the people planning the PnP camps and the people buying in to PnP camps. Make it bad business to just plop down a ring of stocked portables or RV's without putting some thought into it.

Edit: I think it would also be good to consider PnP camps to be a separate category to theme camps, and find ways to support the PnP in order to incentivize them to declare themselves and work with the BMorg. A part of the PnP organizing should include the acculturation of clients, if theme camps do art, performance or services, then the PnP project should be socially engineering non-burners into burners.

[DrYes]

No, I don't NEED a tent, hence using the word "pimp."

I hear that pimpin' ain't easy. Good prep for the playa.

With Fertility 2.0 around the corner, there better be some pimping going on. Roll out the purple shag carpet.

Dare I hope for an ankle-length leopard coat too?

[VultureChow]

The only thing that can be done about it is for the community to reject it. It's up to *us* to be the collective that we believe BM is supposed to be. Just as the org sues to protect the BM trademark, it's up to us to alert them to people attempting to profit in ways that run counter to the essence of the event.

BMOrg could do something. They control placement and early access. If a camp or a camp's organizer has a history of poor MOOPing or lack of interactivity, they can be denied placement, or early access. Those are privileges. That doesn't mean the PnP camps aren't allowed to happen, but it makes it more difficult for them and is entirely within the bounds of BM policy. If an outright ban in unenforceable or just plain wrong, there's no reason to not use the available tools to discourage such behavior.

That does happen to any camp that placement makes a note of, but in this case I was addressing Smashy's post:

I can fill out a theme camp ap that will make me look like the next best thing since HELCO and make absolutely no mention that I am bringing in 35 VIP's that have paid me $8k a head to enjoy a luxurious week's vacation in the desert. I wind up pretty much not doing really anything I stated I was going to do in my application and next year, my sidekick fills out the application, etc and we get placed again with rinse and repeat.

In this scenario, there isn't really anything the org could or would do to prevent someone else from changing the name of the camp and the names of the organizers and bringing their camp again. The mods on this board kill spambots when they show up, but it's the preventative measures that prevent this board from being overrun like it was last year. Ending business practices like this one http://bboutfitter.com/ *is* something they could do with their lawyers. Otherwise, it's up to the community to discourage the continued behavior.

Gotcha. I guess for the BMOrg then, it's a question of what is more important. Are they willing to ignore poor adherence to LNT and decommodification in return for some large interactive features that someone like Playaskool brings? No consequences means the camps never learn and never grow. That should be avoided. At the same time, Art has always had wealthy benefactors and patrons. At what point do we overlook less than ideal behavior in return for a fantastic art car, or bar or TED talk?

[theCryptofishist]

I have to admit that the "Don't Buy Just to Throw Away" on Smashy's link is a possible selling point for me. (Not that I live like that on-playa...) I don't think that these camps are a solution--they certainly aren't an easy solution--but I'd like to see us get more adept at closing that loop.

[eb0502]

Putting on the moderator hat for a minute, I'd like to ask that we steer the conversation back towards a discussion of plug and play camps in general. Tell us what you think and how you feel about plug and play camps in general, as well as any benefits or problems they bring to Burning Man.

so far i think we established that these camps bring people in that are not well versed on radical survival, or leaving no trace.

what i personally think... if they are willing to leave behind a terrible moop plot for everyone else to deal with, they should be fined, and fined heavily. if the BMorg & BLM impose a fine of 100k on someone that has 0 regard for the land that houses them for a week, they would think not once but 10 times about who they bring in.. they would have someone within the camp making sure everything is upto scratch, every bit of remnants picked up, and every drop of water dealt with.

im all for tourists coming, i think im all for anyone coming, as long as they come with the same mind set as everyone else, and they arent allowed to just "buy their way into the experience".... and that includes buying the poor souls that clean up their mess.

unfortunatly when the event is on, no one takes the time to tell others off, because its all about love and happiness............ and when they depart, its just a bit too late to say anything.

[Trishntek]

Meanwhile, back to the subject at hand,,,,

Our camp is very diverse and individuals offer unique abilities and infrastructure to the collective. One may join us with the understanding of helping cook, clean, tending bar or hosting a game of some sort. But they also understand that what they use for shelter and sleep on is completely their responsibility.

One burgin couple camping with us this year asked me, "So we will be able to pitch our tent in your shade structure?" My answer was, "Your tent will be outside the shade structure, but we offer 3000 square feet of shade for the entire camp to utilize for recreation, guests, art and activities. I have extra rope, tarps and hardware that you can use to CREATE YOUR OWN shade for your tent if you wish. That is up to you."

Another asked about a shower. My response was, "We find garden sprayers very effective for showers that use very little water and encourage interactivity while bathing." I went on to explain that he is free to come up with something better, but he will be responsible for its maintenance and grey water management.

We ended up using more electric power last year than our solar arrays could handle and utilized the genset more than desired. This year, we have no less than four of our members finding ways to make us more efficient and environmentally friendly. This is due to the fact that they CARE to make it better.

My point being, there are no guarantees of services rendered. Whatever concerns individuals have are their responsibility to resolve. This naturally provides them a sense of ownership and belonging in the community.

When it comes to interacting with citizens of BRC, we provide an infrastructure rich in opportunities. Each individual in our camp can choose to host a game, persuade someone to do things, or have things done to them they have never experienced. Each individual in our camp is encouraged to bring in people off the street and be hospitable. Each individual in our camp not only leaves at the end of the week knowing their fellow campers, but they also meet, interact and often times, befriend many citizens of BRC.

The Plug n Play camps strike me as being camp-centric. They exist for the sake of the campers and not so much the community. Individual campers in PnP camps do not have to concern themselves with water usage, power consumption and basic interaction with the "minions".

There are many who have said, ",,, that frees them to provide X, Y and Z." So if they are indeed benefactors of artwork, a particularly large MV or some other kind of cool thing on the playa, does that mean they can have a seat in the "Owner's Box" and watch the game from afar? If they have a seat at the table of BMHQ,,, I find it appalling they would consider hiring, tipping or ingratiating individuals for their own luxury.

[Nipple]

I'd like some clarification...

I've seen two stories about the PlayaSkool moop issue.

Story 1) Team was hired to perform a LNT plan. They did not.

Story 2) Site was cleaned. There are pictures. Winds blew moop in after the fact.

[Dr Jet Sinister]

Gotcha. I guess for the BMOrg then, it's a question of what is more important. Are they willing to ignore poor adherence to LNT and decommodification in return for some large interactive features that someone like Playaskool brings? No consequences means the camps never learn and never grow. That should be avoided. At the same time, Art has always had wealthy benefactors and patrons. At what point do we overlook less than ideal behavior in return for a fantastic art car, or bar or TED talk?

Art has also had spectators, but BM isn't a museum either. I just don't know if a fancy MV is worth the cost of having a person being physically present at the event but not connected to it. If a group of burners is sitting around discussing their personal logistics how does the tourist become part of that conversation and part of the group? What about a conversation about grey water disposal or EL wire? Many of us, especially here on eplaya, spend countless hours during the year learning how to do BM specific things and conversing with each other to try and find the best solutions.

This is where I see the disconnect that would be detrimental to this experiment in temporary community. No one is saying vets shouldn't sherpa a virgin and help them to love BRC but I wouldn't bring a virgin into my camp that expected to just pay their way out of everything this event encompasses as that would be a waste of a ticket IMO and I certainly wouldn't do it with 100 people either. I do believe that grandpa was right when he said we appreciate things we've worked for so much more.

[Nipple]

We ended up using more electric power last year than our solar arrays could handle and utilized the genset more than desired. This year, we have no less than four of our members finding ways to make us more efficient and environmentally friendly. This is due to the fact that they CARE to make it better.

Doesn't your camp have kind of a BDSM flare? You should have a couple spare subs around you could toss onto some kind of magneto exercise bike. (I'm sure Elliot could build these.)

If you keep them supple, fed, and watered, you should be able to bridge the gap between solar and genset using human resources.

P.S. - I don't think you look like Gandalf.

[alt12]

I say we kidnap plug and play tourists, dose them up with a few hits of acid and drop them off deep playa to test their interactivity skills.

This is the best idea I've heard yet!

[The CO]

If a camp or a camp's organizer has a history of poor MOOPing or lack of interactivity, they can be denied placement, or early access. Those are privileges.

You've just described some of the criteria used to determine placement & distributed tickets!

[trilobyte]

@stinkyfoot - The neighborhood effect that you're seeing and apply it is actually the result of city planning that the placement team actually works really hard to coordinate with placed camps, with pretty good ideas on how the space that isn't reserved for placed camps will get filled in once the gates open. Good point with regards to declaring themselves and offering some sort of incentive for them to come out and be open about it and work with Burning Man and the placement team.

@Dr Jet Sinister - I agree, there shouldn't be some kind of trade-off where, for an additional fee a camper doesn't have to be bothered with the same responsibilities others share.

[DrYes]

The Plug n Play camps strike me as being camp-centric. They exist for the sake of the campers and not so much the community.

Head out to the suburbs. Most of the camps out there exist for the sake of the campers, not the community. That's not a slam on them at all, just a reality - I have tons of friends who camp in small groups of 5-10 people and provide zero (vis a vis the camp itself) for the community. They're camping together to make life more comfortable for themselves, and they interact with the larger community outside of their camps. What's wrong with that?

[Dr Jet Sinister]

@Dr Jet Sinister - I agree, there shouldn't be some kind of trade-off where, for an additional fee a camper doesn't have to be bothered with the same responsibilities others share.

The really sad part is that it can really diminish their BM experience too. There could be a silver lining in that however. Maybe they won't go back to their world and tell all their friends how fantastic it was (because they didn't connect with anything) and put more people into the crowded pool of people wanting tickets?

[Dr Jet Sinister]

The Plug n Play camps strike me as being camp-centric. They exist for the sake of the campers and not so much the community.

Head out to the suburbs. Most of the camps out there exist for the sake of the campers, not the community. That's not a slam on them at all, just a reality - I have tons of friends who camp in small groups of 5-10 people and provide zero (vis a vis the camp itself) for the community. They're camping together to make life more comfortable for themselves, and they interact with the larger community outside of their camps. What's wrong with that?

They aren't on the esplanade for one.

[Trishntek]

The Plug n Play camps strike me as being camp-centric. They exist for the sake of the campers and not so much the community.

Head out to the suburbs. Most of the camps out there exist for the sake of the campers, not the community. That's not a slam on them at all, just a reality - I have tons of friends who camp in small groups of 5-10 people and provide zero (vis a vis the camp itself) for the community. They're camping together to make life more comfortable for themselves, and they interact with the larger community outside of their camps. What's wrong with that?

Apples and bananas,,,, those are not PLACED CAMPS. Camps with placement are expected to offer interactivity to the community.

[DrYes]

. Camps with placement are expected to offer interactivity to the community.

I don't disagree, but why the sudden uproar this year? Green Tortoise, for instance, has been placed for many years (if not on Esplanade), and even got allocated a batch of tickets this year (as of a couple of weeks ago, they still had tickets at the $390 price if you go with them, in fact) and they offer no interactivity to the community.

[theCryptofishist]

They provide the service of taking people into Gerlach and Empire.

I suppose that that's the GT people, not the campers, yet I don't know if GT could do that if it didn't have campers...
From what I know about GT there's more interactivity than there would be on the dog (greyhound), how much they bring to the playa? And they aren't providing as much in the way of services to the campers. So, yeah, a good test case to see where they fall...

[Trishntek]

We ended up using more electric power last year than our solar arrays could handle and utilized the genset more than desired. This year, we have no less than four of our members finding ways to make us more efficient and environmentally friendly. This is due to the fact that they CARE to make it better.

Doesn't your camp have kind of a BDSM flare? You should have a couple spare subs around you could toss onto some kind of magneto exercise bike. (I'm sure Elliot could build these.)

If you keep them supple, fed, and watered, you should be able to bridge the gap between solar and genset using human resources.

P.S. - I don't think you look like Gandalf.

Thanks Nipple! The subs are too busy licking the dust off our furniture,,,, but that is an idea I hadn't considered!

[DrYes]

They provide the service of taking people into Gerlach and Empire.

Nod, they provide a commercial service on the playa to some burners, which is how one could describe plug n' play camps in general isn't it?

From what I know about GT there's more interactivity than there would be on the dog (greyhound), how much they bring to the playa? And they aren't providing as much in the way of services to the campers. So, yeah, a good test case to see where they fall...

Water, common shade structure (which you can't pitch your tent under), and meals is what they provide. You're expected to help at mealtime, but not everyone does. I've never camped with them, but I'm told there's usually a surplus of people willing/wanting to help with cooking, so those who don't really want to help aren't particularly needed anyway. We almost decided to go with GT this year just because we weren't sure we could get tickets any other way (other than paying scalper prices, which we weren't keen on doing) and because it'd be super-easy compared to doing it ourselves.

[Trishntek]

@DrYes, maybe Green Tortoise should be scrutinized as well?

[Elorrum]

I feel that somebody is running a business making money at burning man, and they are not sanctioned by bmorg. That's not supposed to happen. If I set up a soda and souvenir stand I'd be run out of town. What about the people who want burningmman schwag, but don't want the hassle of being nice to strangers? Shouldn't they be provided with the oPtion to Purchase it?

[DrYes]

@DrYes, maybe Green Tortoise should be scrutinized as well?

But why? This is what I don't understand - it's been going on for years in a fully sanctioned out-in-the-open manner and it doesn't appear to have caused problems. Why does it matter to you whether GT brought someone's food and water or that person did? Is your interaction with that person on the playa going to be any fundamentally different as a result? I met a lovely single mom from Brazil last year who came to Burning Man by herself via Green Tortoise. She had really wanted to go to the playa but being in Brazil, didn't have access to a network of Burners like those of us in the States do. GT was a handy solution for her, she had a great time, and she contributed to Burning Man by being out there interacting with people (which is the best part of BM to a lot of Burners, I'd venture).

Heck, because GT doesn't really like you to bring shade structures for your tent (space reasons on the bus), you could even argue that GT is encouraging people to leave their camps and interact because it's too fucking hot to sleep after 8 am without a shade structure anyway.

I just don't get all the hate and the "Thou shalt only burn My Way" attitudes.

[theCryptofishist]

People feel that something they love is threatened, and th ey move into their defensive modes.

(I know, this isn't putting you into yours...)

[forty_eight]

Having an issue with turnkey burning doesn't feel the same as saying 'burn my way'. My concern would be services provided on-Playa undermine an opportunity for radical self reliance and its transformative potential.

Maybe it's the difference between a pack mule trip and a backpacking trip? For me, I feel like a backpacking trip offers a more self-reliant transformative opportunity than a pack train with its amenities. Now, if you have someone cache some food for you along the way, are you less self-reliant and treading on turnkey backpacking? Probably not, but I think that is the fine line attempting to be traversed here.

Profiting (or even subsidizing one's burn) through on-Playa service provision goes against my perception of decommodification (being free of expectation of remuneration - coming or going). It actually seems like it would be a buzzkill, but that's just me.

note - have not burnt, ever (so please excuse use of an analogy)

[zerzura]

The challenge, then, is to help these camps integrate into the ways of Burning Man and to positively acculturate their participants. We also want the sponsors of these camps to understand how they are perceived and how they affect the event and the rest of the Burning Man community.

Based on the videos and anecdotes and our own personal experiences, what ideas do we have and what can we suggest to the Org and to these camps (again, in general) to help them integrate into the ways of Burning Man? If you feel they're doing it all wrong, what constructive ideas do you have to help them turn things around and do things right?

I would prefer that the org not place them in prominent Esplanade placement if they do not have an interactive (for the entire city) theme camp plan set forward. If the org has any contact with the package providers, I would hope that the org would require that they impress upon their "clients" that Burning Man does not have a dividing line between the people providing art and entertainment, and the general populace. ie: there is no "staff" providing your experience, art, etc; they bring it for love (or recognition, or some twisted sense of sisyphean accomplishment, or...) I highly doubt most of these package providers actually care beyond whether their client has a good time or not, but perhaps some do want to work with the org and with the Burning Man community. Also, I have zero interest in taking my time to "acculturate" people who buy a package for a "wild vacation of a lifetime" as a consumable. I don't feel like it is my responsibility. They'll either get it or they won't. I would much rather spend my time helping people out there who are doing something real -- or doing something at all; making art, bringing experiences to other people, creating rather than consuming.

People are defending their camp set up because they set up infrastructure or charge dues. I really don't think this is the definition of "plug n play camps". "Plug and play" could be a few things. This could be a helpful camp where it is set up for an art crew, so they can build something fantastic without having to put up shade as well. Or it could be set up as a camp for a celebration where their gift to their camp-mates is the camp, or the people invited have never been to Burning Man and come for a momentous occasion such as a wedding (this sounds awful to me, but I keep hearing about it). Usually these camps are not placed as theme camps anyway (the one in the video with the 50th birthday party was not placed - and people in that camp actually do quite a lot for Burning Man, but I digress). Then there are camps set up for others who pay the camp organizers and merely drop in for the experience. I think the problem comes from paid tour package providers obtaining sought after real estate and early entrance passes, and then not following by the few rules that keep the event itself afloat, such as LNT. Again, scarcity of resources (and maybe a bit of class backlash) seems to be the sticking points in these discussions.

[DrYes]

Maybe it's the difference between a pack mule trip and a backpacking trip? For me, I feel like a backpacking trip offers a more self-reliant transformative opportunity than a pack train with its amenities.

That's probably true, but they're points along the same spectrum. Unless you're out there naked and creating your own tools, you're depending on stuff you probably bought at a store. It seems to me that people are defending their point on the spectrum as 'the right one' but I don't really see a lot of validity in that. Someone who camps without a tent can point to everyone in a tent, turn up his nose, and say "Look at those softies, missing out on an opportunity for radical self reliance" just as you might to someone doing turnkey camping.

Profiting (or even subsidizing one's burn) through on-Playa service provision goes against my perception of decommodification (being free of expectation of remuneration - coming or going). It actually seems like it would be a buzzkill, but that's just me.

Well, being a commercial victim on the playa would indeed be a big buzzkill. I don't even like that coffee and lemonade are sold. But, look at it this way: I go to Burning Man, I look around, and commodification is -everywhere-. Every RV, every car, virtually every tent and yurt, most peoples' food, clothing, etc etc etc. What's so different about paying for car, paying for your gas, paying for your food vs. paying someone else (who will then pay for a vehicle, gas, and the food) to do it?

Presumably the turnkey camps aren't trying to nickel and dime you once you show up ("Luxury toilet paper sir? That'll be $10/roll.), so there's no commerce happening on the playa itself, any more than there's commerce happening when you drive your purchased vehicle full of purchased supplies onto the playa.