Why no crutches at Medic?

heat · Post by **heat** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:46 am

Greetings from the Injured List;
I am wondering why there are no crutches at the Med facilities. I was lacerated and had to get cleaned & sutured by the wonderful paramedics from Reno, and then ferried back to camp to make the best of it. Couldn't walk, no crutches available anywhere in the city. Maybe a call for crutch donations for the future would help the lamed participate a little more, maybe even get help for themselves if needed (or at least make it to potties). I'm sure a trailer would be filled quickly by citizen donations if asked ahead of time. I'll bring mine, hopefully won't need them - i plan on being fully rehabbed and back at it before then! I love my city and haven't so much as stubbed a toe in all the years before this. Falling happens in the dark sometimes, even sans substances.
BTW, on the way back from Med, I was transported in a "Gatoraid" cart w/ flashing light, gurney on the back, 3 paramedics on board and no decorations. Nevertheless, a drunken/high idiot came weaving up on an un-lit bike and tried to grab on for a tow (I was in front passenger seat to navigate as driver was a newbie). It took some yelling to get him to let go and go weaving off.He was totally unaware of our mission. Yikes!
Another thought: How about a barge for the injured? There are a few every year, I'm sure, and we miss so much - giving and appreciating. I snagged a ride on a comfy art car to view the burn at least from a distance, thanks to the Magnetic Poetry truck!! It can be iffy riding with partiers and bouncy kids, etc when injured, maybe a soft ride with H2O, etc would be a cool addition to the city.

thinkcooper · Post by **thinkcooper** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:11 pm

Hey heat- I've been in your shoes. At the '98 burn, I tore all three right knee ligaments in a painful and really stupid "surfing behind a bike on a skateboard" wednesday morning accident. I was sent to Gerlach for X-rays: too much swelling to tell what was going on, but by the way you could bend the leg in every direction the diagnosis was pretty easy.

I went back to the playa with a full leg brace, was iced and wonderfully medicated in camp, and within a day was hobbling around on a cane fashioned from a stout section of bamboo. I decorated the cane and saved it to throw into the '00 fire. Turns out one of my campmates had some crutches that we split use of when the cane and brace was too tough to negotiate around on.

Back then I had driven to the playa in an old ragtop landcruiser, winched/lifted, all desert camo, that had a dashboard cable throttle control. I used the cruiser in 4wd low and 1st to tool around the playa. The DMV were sympathetic and let me trek around as an art car/injured barge. I ended up rescuing a high stranded sole, pulling a stuck car out of the mire, and even winched out some deep tent poles while in gimp mode on the playa.

Crutches would have been a great thing. I'm surprised the hospital didn't set you up with a pair. I'd think it wouldn't be too difficult to have some donated crutches on hand, but they come in different sizes, so unless they had a good stockpile, you still could end up going without.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:32 pm

I was wondering the same thing myself. Used crutches get thrown away all the time because nobody wants to take them. Could it be a liability issue?

I'd definitely help gather/transport some if I knew they could be made available for use.

Maybe someone could start a "crutch camp" ! A cool shade structure could be made with all those aluminum tubes.

heat · Post by **heat** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:38 pm

If wishes were fishes....we'd all have ... crutches! I am now using a used pair that work OK on the lowest setting, I'm guessing a lot of folks would benefit by a few spare pairs.
Thanks for your tale. Sounds like your participative spirit is too strong to subdue, I feel that! I was feeling a bit tethered, but did what I could, loaning my Desert Steed for one (returned unharmed by the newbies who used it).
Some folks at Mash Camp eventually fashioned a couple canes from tent poles and cardboard, I made a ghetto knee brace from cardboard and duct tape and started lurching around as I was determined to make the special feast contirbution I'd prepared for camp. Got yelled at by the doctor for putting weight on it when I got home. oops. Crutches would have been perfect.
I think I'll try and ask Med if they'd like a call for donations next year. And I do want to work on a serious art vehicle next year, I'll bear in mind the crips among us, and even ways for them to give and feel good.

heat · Post by **heat** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:47 pm

my son's name is cooper!

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:14 pm

you want crutches, bring them yourself...

geezus... some questions answer themselves.

thinkcooper · Post by **thinkcooper** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:22 pm

heat wrote:my son's name is cooper! :o

Pretty fucking funny- so is mine. Really. 11 going on 12. He's not Cooper Cooper, btw, that would be too crazy...

thinkcooper · Post by **thinkcooper** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:28 pm

Simply Joel wrote:you want crutches, bring them yourself...

geezus... some questions answer themselves.

Yes. To be prepared for any playa emergency you should bring crutches... and sutures, an IV drip, a defibrillator, a stomach pump/charcoal flush, and an ice cold speculum.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:54 pm

thinkcooper wrote:
Simply Joel wrote:you want crutches, bring them yourself...

geezus... some questions answer themselves.
Yes. To be prepared for any playa emergency you should bring crutches... and sutures, an IV drip, a defibrillator, a stomach pump/charcoal flush, and an ice cold speculum.

or take every precaution not to injure yourself or others...

speaking of which, i still have a torn left rotator cuff from 2000... no medical insurance then and only until recently....

i also attended in '98 on crutches... so i have done the "hop-along" cassady thingie....

as stated ad nauseum... radical self-reliance, on and off the playa-ground.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:43 pm

Yes. To be prepared for any playa emergency you should bring crutches... and sutures, an IV drip, a defibrillator, a stomach pump/charcoal flush, and an ice cold speculum.

Well, except for the defibrillator and stomach pump you seem to be getting the idea.

The idea of soliciting for crutches is a good idea though and very community oriented. Would be great if you checked in throughout the year to let us know how your new project is going.

thinkcooper · Post by **thinkcooper** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:14 pm

Badger wrote:
Yes. To be prepared for any playa emergency you should bring crutches... and sutures, an IV drip, a defibrillator, a stomach pump/charcoal flush, and an ice cold speculum.
Well, except for the defibrillator and stomach pump you seem to be getting the idea.

I'm pleased you didn't find fault with my speculum. It's a conversation starter at any playa shindig, and that in itself can be a lifesaver. :lol:

While Joel's idea of being prepared for every mishap, and not participating in activities that are likely to beyond what you're capable of patching up on your own is a noble one, if I participated at BM that way things like zip lines, medium rare steaks, communal toilets, smooching pretty/willing strangers, sharing a drink at the deep end, being part of a security line around a nitrogen pressurized tank of kerosene below open propane flames and doing those odd substances of unknown origin would be right out.

Maybe my head's not on straight but I find riding a crotch rocket on Skyline Drive or splitting lanes on 280 far riskier than playing on the playa for a week and change. Perhaps living in the desert for a bunch of years took the fear of the place out of it for me. I respect it, but don't fear it.

A medical team is a good thing to have on hand, as self reliant as I may be (you'd dig my real medical kit), there could be some injuries I just couldn't deal with. That said, it's reasonable to me count on someone being there with a medical degree or EMT experience, some decent trauma hardware and the ability to do things that are beyond what I could.

In reality all the radical self reliant bravado in the world would be thrown out the window if there were simply three straight days of rain on the playa during BM. A 1/2 inch of standing water would have us all trapped out there, stranded for many days, in need of heavy duty extrication.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:00 pm

In reality all the radical self reliant bravado in the world would be thrown out the window if there were simply three straight days of rain on the playa during BM. A 1/2 inch of standing water would have us all trapped out there, stranded for many days, in need of heavy duty extrication.

Didn't expect this thread to be the one in which the scariest scenario I can imagine would rear its ugly, U G L Y head. You're right of course. Your scenario is pretty much the Kobiyashi Moru test of playa survivability index and I'm betting that the passing rate would hover somewhere around 15%.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:02 pm

That translates into 5250 people out of 35,000 becoming instant friends of the rest of the La Breans stuck in the tar pit.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:04 pm

I'm pleased you didn't find fault with my speculum. It's a conversation starter at any playa shindig, and that in itself can be a lifesaver. :lol:

Especially if you're using it to stir drinks BTW.

thinkcooper · Post by **thinkcooper** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:23 am

Badger wrote:
In reality all the radical self reliant bravado in the world would be thrown out the window if there were simply three straight days of rain on the playa during BM. A 1/2 inch of standing water would have us all trapped out there, stranded for many days, in need of heavy duty extrication.
Didn't expect this thread to be the one in which the scariest scenario I can imagine would rear its ugly, U G L Y head. You're right of course. Your scenario is pretty much the Kobiyashi Moru test of playa survivability index and I'm betting that the passing rate would hover somewhere around 15%.

I respect that. The ugliest of scenarios don't need mentioning. A few sit in my mind as well.

I know we had 2 weeks worth of food and ended up with enough water, warm clothes and other neccesites (in spite of the thongs and chaps) to survive reasonably well for another week out there. What would worry me about standing water would be it's contanimation by waste materials. Our scaffodling would have really come in handy then.

Badger wrote:
I'm pleased you didn't find fault with my speculum. It's a conversation starter at any playa shindig, and that in itself can be a lifesaver.
Especially if you're using it to stir drinks BTW.

But of course!

heat · Post by **heat** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:20 am

A medical team is a good thing to have on hand, as self reliant as I may be (you'd dig my real medical kit), there could be some injuries I just couldn't deal with. That said, it's reasonable to me count on someone being there with a medical degree or EMT experience, some decent trauma hardware and the ability to do things that are beyond what I could.

Exactly. We had rockin medical supplies and I have actually spent time on that desert for many many years before BMan was even concieved, felt ready for anything. Food, H2O, warm clothes, to spare. But how many medical kits contain crutches, simplyjoel? Does yours?
And it feels somehow insulting to tell an experienced burner (or any) to bring crutches "if I want them". Do you really think I WANT to be on the things? That I wanted to trip on someone else's bad stake job and end up with probably months of rehab ahead? I started this thread in the spirit of "hey this is a possible real need out here, maybe we can come together and help out".

thinkcooper · Post by **thinkcooper** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:28 am

RE: Kobayashi Maru on the playa- me thinks this would have been a situation where sneaking in a cased mini-14 would have helped a level headed responsible man help defend and stablize a heard of spooked cattle about to stampede. Oh wait, that would have required one to reprogram the simulation.

Clarification: this level headed responsible man did not bring a cased firearm to the playa, although he was mightily tempted to do so, for just this kind of unpredictable situation.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:16 am

Okay, to get to the original question--why ask that on e-playa where all you're going to get it speculation or advice when you could email [email protected] and ask a member of the medical core staff. Those are probably the persons who could say yeah or nay to collected crutches as well.
As to my speculation, I'd guess that anything that they thought was broken would go to Reno for x-rays anyway, so pick up crutches at the hospital. I went to the doctor's for a sprain in July and he diagnosed but didn't give me crutches--I ended up on my husband's cane. Just for some perspective.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:31 am

heat wrote:A medical team is a good thing to have on hand, as self reliant as I may be (you'd dig my real medical kit), there could be some injuries I just couldn't deal with. That said, it's reasonable to me count on someone being there with a medical degree or EMT experience, some decent trauma hardware and the ability to do things that are beyond what I could.

Exactly. We had rockin medical supplies and I have actually spent time on that desert for many many years before BMan was even concieved, felt ready for anything. Food, H2O, warm clothes, to spare. But how many medical kits contain crutches, simplyjoel? Does yours?

No, my medical kit does not, yet... i believe my unspoken point is... I wouldn't whine to the general burning man/e-playa community about the lack of said crutches... i'd fix my own fucking problem and/or keep my mouth shut.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:35 am

Do you really think I WANT to be on the things? That I wanted to trip on someone else's bad stake job and end up with probably months of rehab ahead? I started this thread in the spirit of "hey this is a possible real need out here, maybe we can come together and help out".

Well, self-sufficiency sometimes means having to deal with the ugly and the burdensome. Do you think I want to pack 1/3 of my vehicle each year in anticipation of heavy rain only to find out that the weather is perfect? How stupid do I feel when I tell people that the large 5 gallon bucket with the trash liner is my emergency shitter in case the deluge comes. Bottom line is that really, it isn't nor should it be the project's responsibility to expend money for expensive medical supplies in oreder to insure your experience is either a good or comfortable one. There is a potential silver lining in this however. You've identified what you believe and others might agree is a need that should be filled. The best way to insure that it comes about is to step up to the plate and fill the void yourself. Black Rock City is STILL full of examples where people over the years have identified such needs and have followed through with seeing that they're filled rather than putting it on the project.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:48 am

I stop by St. Vinnies about once a week. Just need to see if they have something I can't live without. There are always a few pair of hobble sticks around. Might pick some up some to redo and give to medics in 05. If they have to many, I can bring them home for another year.

heat · Post by **heat** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:53 am

The best way to insure that it comes about is to step up to the plate and fill the void yourself. Black Rock City is STILL full of examples where people over the years have identified such needs and have followed through with seeing that they're filled rather than putting it on the project.

Which is what I was trying to do in the first place: see if it was a more widespread need, and I DID brainstrom one solution - donations. And I DID contact the 911BMan folks and offer to sort said donations if they even had room for them, and also asked if it would work if crutch donators just noted same in the directory (Burning Bell) if the Med folks could at least refer injured people to that. Then injured parties could beg campmates to check directory and hunt crutches from said camps (a potential adventure in itself).
To those who percieved my post as just griping and looking for someone else to fix it, I suggest you read more carefully, and possibly give your judgement glands a rest. Aren't they aching by now?

To wit: simplyjoel, I find your tone incredibly self-righteous. A shining example of why new blood might not be such a terrible thing a t BRC. And as for dealing with problems myself, I choose to deal with the problem I have with your fucking tone by fucking ingnoring you. Maybe you're right, and eplaya is not a resource or possible connecting ground as I thought but has become more of a venting/spewing arena. At least right now.

Thanks to those who offered thoughts, maybe I'll pull something constructive out of this aside from all the naysaying.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:01 pm

Saw the head of ESD last week and he indicated that a crutch drive would be a very good idea and that it will happen. Look for further news in "Jackrabbit Speaks" and gather your crutches!

And remember: You made it happen.

(scary, huh)

heat · Post by **heat** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:24 am

I am very thrilled to report that the burningman911 folks were wonderfully receptive to the idea of a crutch drive and like me wondered why it hadn't happened before. No matter, next year there will be more mobile and protected folks, and I am glad. And will help if needed.All of which was my original intent.
Turns out I actually sliced into the bone when I fell

, so looks like by the time this is over I'll have more than one set of crutches to donate next year. I'm on the second set so far!
Next year please remember to cover all stakes/posts/tiedowns....

I keep thinking about all the maimed soldiers, more hurt than me, not reported by the media who are only interested in kill counts.

I digress. Thanks to all who loaned some burner spirit to making the crutch thing happen.

thinkcooper · Post by **thinkcooper** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:34 am

Very cool!

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:06 am

Self sufficient means self sufficient. If you didn't bring crutches then you need to pay attention and make sure you don't do something that requires crutches... OR gift some crutches to the medical tent.

I saw a lot of people out there who weren't thinking in their own best interests (dunno if this is the case or not) and who were heading for minor, and major, injuries. I don't know if they were adult enough to then take responsibility for their own actions or if they expected someone else to take care of them, but I suspect it was the latter, and I have no sympathy for that kind of person. I've said it over and over again, starting with myself, and then to others: PAY ATTENTION!!

Iso (you beautiful babe!!), I, too, brought enough equipment to provide for a platoon in case of disaster. My five gallon bucket (with seat!) sat next to my truck all week, unused. After all, shit does indeed happen.

Heat wrote:

To wit: simplyjoel, I find your tone incredibly self-righteous. A shining example of why new blood might not be such a terrible thing a t BRC. And as for dealing with problems myself, I choose to deal with the problem I have with your fucking tone by fucking ingnoring you. Maybe you're right, and eplaya is not a resource or possible connecting ground as I thought but has become more of a venting/spewing arena. At least right now.

What a self-righteous, self important, condescending DICK!! New Blood?? Sounds like the same old shit....

Icepack · Post by **Icepack** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:09 am

Just a guess.. if you had been injured seriously enough to be taken to Reno in an ambulance for xrays etc, you may have gotten crutches from the hospital there.

Another thought... there was a camp called Hot Wheels that was all about folks in wheelchairs. They might be interested in donated wheelchairs or something too. Or maybe they could help get a wheelchair drive started.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:40 am

Icepack wrote:Just a guess.. if you had been injured seriously enough to be taken to Reno in an ambulance for xrays etc, you may have gotten crutches from the hospital there.

something I mentioned a while back.

For whatever it's worth, ESD has storage space on the work ranch, and I for one am comfortable with them storing a few pairs of crutches with a reasonably high probability of them getting to people who need them, rather than having several thousand people bring pairs every year and maybe never run into a needy gimp. Efficiency may be death, but in this case it just seems easier.

IMHO

Flackmaster · Post by **Flackmaster** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:49 am

Icepack wrote:Just a guess.. if you had been injured seriously enough to be taken to Reno in an ambulance for xrays etc, you may have gotten crutches from the hospital there.

oddly enough, most hospitals don't issue crutches. They generally tell you buy or rent them at the pharmacy. It would seem a resonable request to have the REMSA medical tent at center camp keep a few pairs in stock.

heat · Post by **heat** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:05 am

Not a bad idea, cryptofish. Thought about something like that, but after talking to them I'll leave it to the med folks to say what they think will work best for them.
I find it interesting that there is such an undercurrent of unkindness in many of the replies. What happened to me was purely an accident, a 2 second trip-and-fall that was not preicipitated by alcohol, drugs, lack of fitness or inexperience.
It. Was. An. ACCIDENT.
And yes, I probably should have been transported but no one recognized the severity of it at the time. And no, I would never blame anyone, not the folks in med nor the folks who didn't cover the metal I fell on. If anyone I blame myself for glancing up at that moment while rushing to get someting for someone.
There was a time at BRC when I didn't sense this defiant "take-care-of-your-own-ass,-fool" tone. I have helped many, even those who WERE being stupid, drugged, drunk whatever when they were hurt. One of the things I always loved most about BRC was the lack of judging others so harshly. Now there is snarling when someone just frickin trips and falls down.
Sad.
I choose to focus on helping wiith a simple solution for the next poor sod who trips. And hopefully s/he will not run into many with such unforgiving attitudes!

Why no crutches at Medic?

Why no crutches at Medic?

Wishes/fishes

Oh, BTW thinkcooper

Re: Oh, BTW thinkcooper

Thanks, Badger

Fabuloso!

crutches

hmmm