Plug & Play/Turnkey Camping
- Pop_Tart
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:25 pm
- Burning Since: 2009
- Camp Name: MalMart
- Location: Renton, WA
- Contact:
Re: Plug & Play Camping
How about we force them to sew a star of David onto all of their outfits and force them to camp in their own private fenced off area while we are at it...
- BBadger
- Posts: 5649
- Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
- Burning Since: 2018
- Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA
Re: Plug & Play Camping
Let's pretend BMOrg has policies in place to eradicate the scourge of PnP camps.
What is plug and play?
Before we start casting stones, I want to know is how are you going to determine whether a camp is Plug and Play or not? What is the standard here?
Playaskool is an outrageous example. They made their own goofy video, they got all this attention, the supposed camp coordinator even visited this thread to defend his practices. They practically celebrate their PnPism. It would be easy to identify some camp like Playaskool as PnP. There are others too of course. We see their ads pop up from time to time, but really they're far and few between.
For everything else, the lines are a bit more blurred. What is the fine line between a regular camp and the apostasy practiced by PnP camps?
I look at my own camp situation. When my friends and I joined the camp we knew straight up that there were camp dues. These covered things such as setting up the kitchen, the evap pond, power, generation, etc. The following year, the dues doubled, to afford a camp shipping container.
All these camp-due-covered things could definitely constitute plug and play, and quite frankly, there are quite a few people in the camp that could be considered PnPers. Sure, they aren't just lounging about being fed grapes and being fanned with palm fronds by man-servants (or at least not paid ones), and sure, they cook their own meals (aside from whatever subgroup-cooked camp dinner there is), but other than that, they aren't doing much. I don't consider our camp Plug and Play, but compared to other camps, the amenities that are managed by a select few would be skirting the line.
To what extend does collective pooling of resources, or having some people set things up for others, constitute Plug and Play?
The sentiment is great, but it's one thing to be against cancer, it's another to isolate and figure out how to remove it. Often there is collateral damage. Will the solution be more like surgery? Or chemotherapy which affects the entire host? Sometimes the cure is worse than the poison. Sometimes it even kills the host.
Sorry, the gas chambers are already filled with Burgins.
What is plug and play?
Before we start casting stones, I want to know is how are you going to determine whether a camp is Plug and Play or not? What is the standard here?
Playaskool is an outrageous example. They made their own goofy video, they got all this attention, the supposed camp coordinator even visited this thread to defend his practices. They practically celebrate their PnPism. It would be easy to identify some camp like Playaskool as PnP. There are others too of course. We see their ads pop up from time to time, but really they're far and few between.
For everything else, the lines are a bit more blurred. What is the fine line between a regular camp and the apostasy practiced by PnP camps?
I look at my own camp situation. When my friends and I joined the camp we knew straight up that there were camp dues. These covered things such as setting up the kitchen, the evap pond, power, generation, etc. The following year, the dues doubled, to afford a camp shipping container.
All these camp-due-covered things could definitely constitute plug and play, and quite frankly, there are quite a few people in the camp that could be considered PnPers. Sure, they aren't just lounging about being fed grapes and being fanned with palm fronds by man-servants (or at least not paid ones), and sure, they cook their own meals (aside from whatever subgroup-cooked camp dinner there is), but other than that, they aren't doing much. I don't consider our camp Plug and Play, but compared to other camps, the amenities that are managed by a select few would be skirting the line.
To what extend does collective pooling of resources, or having some people set things up for others, constitute Plug and Play?
The sentiment is great, but it's one thing to be against cancer, it's another to isolate and figure out how to remove it. Often there is collateral damage. Will the solution be more like surgery? Or chemotherapy which affects the entire host? Sometimes the cure is worse than the poison. Sometimes it even kills the host.
Pop_Tart wrote:How about we force them to sew a star of David onto all of their outfits and force them to camp in their own private fenced off area while we are at it...
Sorry, the gas chambers are already filled with Burgins.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens
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- Elorrum
- Posts: 5385
- Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:09 pm
- Burning Since: 2007
- Camp Name: Baby fell in the Bucket
- Location: Reno
Re: Plug & Play Camping
I guess we'll have to see if it leads to all audience, and no show in the long run. Who wants to earn a living on Burning Man? At least cover all the expenses, a bit extra if you want a sound system for the hanger you need to build the big art. Step up, seems like the door's open.
"Ask again later." - Magic 8-Ball
- TomServo
- Posts: 6160
- Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:17 pm
- Burning Since: 1999
- Camp Name: Black Rock City Assholes Union Local 668
- Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Re: Plug & Play Camping
Was thinking on alternatives for International Burners...for whom hauling gear overseas would be a logistical problem.. This is NOT 100% Radical Self Reliance, but given the circumstances, seems a fair option, and allows these folks to experience the survival camping, that so many of us live for. Plus, it also gave me another excuse to create a logo on windows.
POUND & PLAY
A camp dedicated to providing gear and tools for International Burners. NO MONEY is ever exchanged...just a name and a hug. Gear can be picked up on playa Tools loaned out for setting camp. Assistance provided for disabled Burners. All gear loans would be pre-arranged. A hug and a handshake, promising the gear and tools will be returned.

..just a thought..
POUND & PLAY
A camp dedicated to providing gear and tools for International Burners. NO MONEY is ever exchanged...just a name and a hug. Gear can be picked up on playa Tools loaned out for setting camp. Assistance provided for disabled Burners. All gear loans would be pre-arranged. A hug and a handshake, promising the gear and tools will be returned.

..just a thought..
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..
- motskyroonmatick
- Posts: 1854
- Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:37 am
- Burning Since: 2004
- Camp Name: B.R.C. Welding&Repair
- Location: Aurora Oregon
Re: Plug & Play Camping
I was going to write up a big scheme for charging camps extra fees for the use of outside resources during the burn week to encourage RSR and penalize P+P but I'll let the ORG deal with that.
Instead I'm going to make it a priority that when we find a spot for Stag Camp it will be well away from camps that have high non decorated exterior fences, potable water and grey/black water tanks, unoccupied RV's and Segway charging stations. We will be doing serious recon. We will be making a conscious effort to camp away from people who's first instinct is to not recognize we exist. This is based on past experience of camping across from a P+P camp.
Instead I'm going to make it a priority that when we find a spot for Stag Camp it will be well away from camps that have high non decorated exterior fences, potable water and grey/black water tanks, unoccupied RV's and Segway charging stations. We will be doing serious recon. We will be making a conscious effort to camp away from people who's first instinct is to not recognize we exist. This is based on past experience of camping across from a P+P camp.
Black Rock City Welding and Repair. The Night Time Warming Station. iGNiTE! Bar.
Card Carrying Member BRCCP.
When you pass the 4th "bridge out!" sign; the flaming death is all yours.-Knowmad-
Card Carrying Member BRCCP.
When you pass the 4th "bridge out!" sign; the flaming death is all yours.-Knowmad-
Re: Plug & Play Camping
BBadger wrote:Playaskool is an outrageous example. They made their own goofy video, they got all this attention, the supposed camp coordinator even visited this thread to defend his practices. They practically celebrate their PnPism. It would be easy to identify some camp like Playaskool as PnP. There are others too of course. We see their ads pop up from time to time, but really they're far and few between.
I thought that Playaskool was the most reasonable example. In many ways they are just a very highly structured theme camp, with the goal of helping people both in and out of the camp learn to do burning man, through seminars and sharing some of the work. The fact that they had a collection for one of their camp mates, got vendors to do MOOPing was kinda fishy at best. The VIP/concierge camps are another matter entirely.
The real problem here is that they - according to Janus' own admission - deliberately cater to people who don't want to do any prep work, who say - "You know, can I just chuck this survival guide, rent an RV, and have you guys help me figure it out when I get there?"
The answer should be, "Hell no! Read the guide, try your best to prepare for a week in the desert, but don't worry - we are going to help you out, pick you up when you fall, and give you more than you can imagine. Just take the leap of faith and you will be ok." There is nothing wrong with adding to that, "Oh, BTW we have an evap pond / coleman stove / shade structure - so don't worry about that part."
The point is that a person try to make some level of effort to figure things out for oneself - to rely in some sense on their own wits. This could involve renting an RV or walk in camping in a Bivy sack, it could involve a generator to keep the wine rack at a cool 72 degrees or a few 12 packs of hot miller lite. People can specialize and divide up tasks, or try to do it all themselves. Camps can give the easier jobs to the new members.
The definition of PnP from computer hardware is zero effort, zero understanding - I don't know, I don't care, I want to show up and get started NOW.
I think that you delineated the difference between a PnP camp and a theme camp perfectly when you said that they celebrated their PnP.
PnP is an ideal, I remember when it was called "Plug and pray" back in the Win95 days. Now with USB it is often flawless. You cannot regulate what ideals people have. You can discuss them, and maybe that was the point of this video and discussion - to force everyone to explain why they don't think this is a good paradigm for Burning Man.
Hopefully this discussion will encourage new participants to take the leap of faith, try to prepare and do at least a few things themselves, and get a million times more out of the event. Other people will help you out!
You can't pay for an experience that cannot be purchased. This is a tautology!

- Bob
- Posts: 6748
- Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
- Burning Since: 1986
- Camp Name: Royaneh
- Location: San Francisco
- Contact:
Re: Plug & Play Camping
TomServo wrote: the whole thought of Plug&Play is nauseating. If we have to accept them, don't register them. But, if we have to register them, place them so far away from anything, that they discourage people from buying into their scheme.
Again, some of us normals like to camp on the outer streets. One person's ghetto is another's playground.
BRC city designers tried to solve a perceived problem via mapping in 1996 by putting rave camps a few miles to the north; traffic problems ensued, shall we say. Again, in 1998, they mapped rave camps at the north end of the arc and quiet-seekers at the south end. Funny thing happened -- the camp they mapped at the south corner turned out to have deejays and a sound system they cranked up at night. Turns out ravers buy tickets in bulk, so they mapped rave camps at both the 2:00 and 10:00 ends starting in 1999. That's when a lot of my friends abandoned Burning Man and started going out there in July.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/
"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
- TomServo
- Posts: 6160
- Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:17 pm
- Burning Since: 1999
- Camp Name: Black Rock City Assholes Union Local 668
- Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Re: Plug & Play Camping
Bob wrote:TomServo wrote: the whole thought of Plug&Play is nauseating. If we have to accept them, don't register them. But, if we have to register them, place them so far away from anything, that they discourage people from buying into their scheme.
Again, some of us normals like to camp on the outer streets. One person's ghetto is another's playground.
BRC city designers tried to solve a perceived problem via mapping in 1996 by putting rave camps a few miles to the north; traffic problems ensued, shall we say. Again, in 1998, they mapped rave camps at the north end of the arc and quiet-seekers at the south end. Funny thing happened -- the camp they mapped at the south corner turned out to have deejays and a sound system they cranked up at night. Turns out ravers buy tickets in bulk, so they mapped rave camps at both the 2:00 and 10:00 ends starting in 1999. That's when a lot of my friends abandoned Burning Man and started going out there in July.
I was thinking more towards or beyond the perimeter fence.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..
- theCryptofishist
- Posts: 40313
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
- Burning Since: 2017
- Location: In Exile
Re: Plug & Play Camping
Do you mean that ravers buy a lot of tickets or that some ravers buy huge multiples of tickets?
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
- Bob
- Posts: 6748
- Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
- Burning Since: 1986
- Camp Name: Royaneh
- Location: San Francisco
- Contact:
Re: Plug & Play Camping
Who knows? How do cicadas do it?
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/
"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
- Elorrum
- Posts: 5385
- Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:09 pm
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- Camp Name: Baby fell in the Bucket
- Location: Reno
Re: Plug & Play Camping
Bob wrote:Who knows? How do cicadas do it?
every 17 years? er sorry, you asked "how." That I do not know.
"Ask again later." - Magic 8-Ball
- theCryptofishist
- Posts: 40313
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
- Burning Since: 2017
- Location: In Exile
Re: Plug & Play Camping
Elorrum wrote:Bob wrote:Who knows? How do cicadas do it?
every 17 years? er sorry, you asked "how." That I do not know.
Or something more like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNcy9xzA7wM
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
Re: Plug & Play Camping
The ancient greeks dined on them.
They often survive by predator satiation, by overwhelming in numbers.
They often survive by predator satiation, by overwhelming in numbers.
- TomServo
- Posts: 6160
- Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:17 pm
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- Camp Name: Black Rock City Assholes Union Local 668
- Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Re: Plug & Play Camping
They used to drive me nuts, during the summers in Texas. Brought a dead one out to California...smelled like a dead animal when I got it there.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..
Re: Plug & Play Camping
Raver or cicada?
- TomServo
- Posts: 6160
- Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:17 pm
- Burning Since: 1999
- Camp Name: Black Rock City Assholes Union Local 668
- Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Re: Plug & Play Camping
thought it was a raver...turned out to be a cicada
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..
Re: Plug & Play Camping
Well, well, well...
Goodwin's law has been invoked, and we are now talking about hauling raver corpses to Cali. It is good to see that this discussion is finally getting somewhere.
Down south, our 13 year cicadas seem to congregate in Bradford Pear trees, which smell like filthy sex at this time in the spring. I wonder why that is? I bet Sam Elliot knows...

I guess we will just have to wait until Labor Day to figure it all out.
Goodwin's law has been invoked, and we are now talking about hauling raver corpses to Cali. It is good to see that this discussion is finally getting somewhere.
Down south, our 13 year cicadas seem to congregate in Bradford Pear trees, which smell like filthy sex at this time in the spring. I wonder why that is? I bet Sam Elliot knows...

I guess we will just have to wait until Labor Day to figure it all out.

Re: Plug & Play Camping
Burning man is like an allegory.
- catinthefunnyhat
- Posts: 2182
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:24 pm
- Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: Plug & Play Camping
I love cicadas. The sound, without context, would be annoying, but it's the sound of summer... the sound of HOT weather... so it's dreamy for me.
Wait, what am I doing here?
Wait, what am I doing here?
If you want drama to stop following you everywhere, try letting go of the leash.
Re: Plug & Play Camping
Pitchforks and Torches! Arrrrg!
I'm the MAN in a truck, burner who is stuck, you're in luck! I'll whip out my BIG tow chain and not charge you, not even one lousy buck!
- theCryptofishist
- Posts: 40313
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
- Burning Since: 2017
- Location: In Exile
Re: Plug & Play Camping
Heck, cicadas are a lot more relaxing than the ostensible topic of this thread...
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
- BBadger
- Posts: 5649
- Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
- Burning Since: 2018
- Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA
Re: Plug & Play Camping
"I have here in my hand a list of two hundred and five camps that were known to the Burning Man Organization as being members of the Plug-and-Play Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping the policy of Black Rock City."
-- Joseph R. McHarvey
-- Joseph R. McHarvey
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens
Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.
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- Bob
- Posts: 6748
- Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
- Burning Since: 1986
- Camp Name: Royaneh
- Location: San Francisco
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Re: Plug & Play Camping
A Tale of Two Black Rock Cities?
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/
"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
Re: Plug & Play Camping
I like how people are posting $150-$200 a head as numbers for camp dues..... You guys are way way off for Playaskool
It was $2000 per RV and $600 for a tent.....
Seriously 2k for grid, food and fluffing.....
Deny it.... I dare you
It was $2000 per RV and $600 for a tent.....
Seriously 2k for grid, food and fluffing.....
Deny it.... I dare you
Re: Plug & Play Camping
PapaBear2120 wrote:I was shown this video last summer by someone who was part of the build crew and catering for this camp. I don't know anyone but her and I'm going to refrain from making my own comments about it for the time being. I do think it's a fitting video for this discussion.
Say what you will about all this, I do like that they set up hexayurts. That is much more adventurous than merely parking a bunch of RVs together. That's probably a big step for some of these people. It looks like summer camp for rich people.
The camp with a difference
Never mind the weather
When you camp with Plug & Ply
Your holiday's forever
Never mind the weather
When you camp with Plug & Ply
Your holiday's forever
Re: Plug & Play Camping
TruDat you got money to burn? I paid 60bux for Esplande, grid, we made our own food and did our own fluffing. Yes I'm denying it. I can do 3 weeks Hawaii for under 2k, lol
Pitchforks and Torches! Arrrrg!
Pitchforks and Torches! Arrrrg!
I'm the MAN in a truck, burner who is stuck, you're in luck! I'll whip out my BIG tow chain and not charge you, not even one lousy buck!
- maryanimal
- Posts: 4030
- Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:41 am
- Burning Since: 2011
Re: Plug & Play Camping
TomServo wrote:Was thinking on alternatives for International Burners...for whom hauling gear overseas would be a logistical problem.. This is NOT 100% Radical Self Reliance, but given the circumstances, seems a fair option, and allows these folks to experience the survival camping, that so many of us live for. Plus, it also gave me another excuse to create a logo on windows.
POUND & PLAY
A camp dedicated to providing gear and tools for International Burners. NO MONEY is ever exchanged...just a name and a hug. Gear can be picked up on playa Tools loaned out for setting camp. Assistance provided for disabled Burners. All gear loans would be pre-arranged. A hug and a handshake, promising the gear and tools will be returned.
..just a thought..
Sounds like a great idea here. Are you giving this some serious thought? It sure would help some of the overseas burners!
Sometimes I'm confused by what I think is really obvious. But what I think is really obvious obviously isn't obvious.
- TomServo
- Posts: 6160
- Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:17 pm
- Burning Since: 1999
- Camp Name: Black Rock City Assholes Union Local 668
- Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Re: Plug & Play Camping
maryanimal wrote:TomServo wrote:Was thinking on alternatives for International Burners...for whom hauling gear overseas would be a logistical problem.. This is NOT 100% Radical Self Reliance, but given the circumstances, seems a fair option, and allows these folks to experience the survival camping, that so many of us live for. Plus, it also gave me another excuse to create a logo on windows.
POUND & PLAY
A camp dedicated to providing gear and tools for International Burners. NO MONEY is ever exchanged...just a name and a hug. Gear can be picked up on playa Tools loaned out for setting camp. Assistance provided for disabled Burners. All gear loans would be pre-arranged. A hug and a handshake, promising the gear and tools will be returned.
..just a thought..
Sounds like a great idea here. Are you giving this some serious thought? It sure would help some of the overseas burners!
If I get my ticket...?..Fuck yeah!
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..
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