Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....

[Simply Joel]

R U kidding? He knows he's going to club fed.

i agree... and probably a TV movie.

maybe even on the cover of Rolling Stone!

[cowboyangel]

dick, Lay, bush, ever stop to think about the implications here?

[cowboyangel]

might be nice to have the so called "guiding lights" have some military experience



Recognizing who served
AlterNet log
September 10, 2004
http://www.alternet.org/election04/log/

This could be the last election where military service
in Vietnam has any political currency. But just for
the record, it's worth noting who really served among
the heavyweights in each of the major political
parties. There are some surprises here. Did you know
John Kerry received three purple hearts? Just kidding.
But here's the list. Be sure to check out the bottom
where the people who spend their time jabbering about
military service (the TV pundits) have their military
credentials exposed.

Democrats
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.
1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor,
Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze
Star with Combat V Purple Hearts.
* John Edwards: did not serve.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze
Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star &
Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-1953.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve,
1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army
Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII, receiving the
Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam,
DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart,
Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne,
Purple Hear! t.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in
Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments.
Entered draft but received 311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal
with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII.
Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.
* Wesley Clark: U.S. Army, 1966-2000, West Point,
Vietnam, Purple Heart, Silver Star. Retired 4-star
general.
* John Dingell: WWII vet
* John Conyers: Army 1950-57, Korea

Republicans
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* House Whiip Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not s! erve.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the
last by marriage.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to
teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man
who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as aviator
and flight instructor.
* George W. Bush: six-year Nat'l Guard commitment (in
four).
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a
non-combat role making movies.
* Gerald Ford: Navy, WWII
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of
Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Bob Dole: an honorable veteran.
* Chuck Hagel: two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star,
Vietnam.
* Duke Cunningham: nominated for Medal of Honor, Navy
Cross, Silver Stars, Air Medals, Purple Hearts.
* Jeff Sessions: Army Reserves, 1973-1986
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* G.H.W. Bush: Pilot in WWII. Shot down by the
Japanese.
* Tom Ridge: Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve

Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal
cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael S! avage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.

[DVD Burner]

Never forget!

147 Franklin D. Roosevelt (D)
132 Harry Truman (D)
122 Dwight D. Eisenhower (R)
174 John F. Kennedy (D)
126 Lyndon B. Johnson (D)
155 Richard M. Nixon (R)
121 Gerald Ford (R)
175 James E. Carter (D)
105 Ronald Reagan (R)
098 George HW Bush (R)
182 William J. Clinton (D)
091 George W. Bush (R)

[DVD Burner]

Forgot to put in that last post that it is a

Presidential I.Q.

[cowboyangel]

Forgot to put in that last post that it is a

Presidential I.Q.

DV ithink you got that wrong on bushII it's 19...not 91

[primate]

Joel you make a good point in your original post about requiring electronic voting machines to provide a paper receipt for each vote cast.
Although you follow that up with the Makers of voting machines complaining that it would be too costly etc as the reasons that we won't implement such a system.
Here's my question. WTF do we care what the voting machine manufacturers think? They are in the business of providing us (in the national sense) a product. That product has certain requirements, one of which should be a paper trail. If they can't provide that product with the right requirements, then we find some one who can. They call that supply and demand, it goes hand in hand with capitalism. This is a capitalist country that operates as a Republic, so they should understand that.

I have a hard time understanding why it is that we are alllowing the Voting machine manufacturers to dictate to us what product they will or won't provide. If I show up at Burger King and I don't get it "my way" I leave. Why would it be any different with voting.

[G.W.B.]

I have a hard time understanding why it is that we are alllowing the Voting machine manufacturers to dictate to us what product they will or won't provide. If I show up at Burger King and I don't get it "my way" I leave. Why would it be any different with voting.

You have a hard time understanding that, I have a hard time understanding why George Bush is still President and not prosecuted by now for fraud and treason.

[Simply Joel]

I have a hard time understanding why it is that we are alllowing the Voting machine manufacturers to dictate to us what product they will or won't provide. If I show up at Burger King and I don't get it "my way" I leave. Why would it be any different with voting.

You have a hard time understanding that, I have a hard time understanding why George Bush is still President and not prosecuted by now for fraud and treason.

fraud & treason?

cites?

[beautytoo]

A local attorney offers some solid suggestions to the Democrats on how to respond to Bush.

Chris:

It was good to see you at the stump speech last night. I invite you to lunch to catch up.

Since you are county chairman for the Democrat party, I'd like to cry on your shoulder a bit. Like a growing number of Americans, I always vote, find no home in either major party, but desperately want an alternative to the Counterfeit Presidency. I guess I am one of those who would choose a cantaloupe over the current administration. It is frustrating that the Kerry/Edwards campaign seems unable to engage Bush/Cheney on any substantive issues or character. Edwards' speech last night was almost... neutral. You guys will never win unless and until you get tough.

The Democrats have allowed the Republicans to define the key issue this election cycle as homeland security. Kerry/Edwards can run with that, but should not limit the discourse to Iran and North Korea. (This just buttresses Bush's "Axis of Evil" speech.) Instead, turn every issue -- including "domestic" issues into a security issue.

Economy.

Budget deficits. The Bush Administration has breached the Contract with America. Why not point out that Democrats agreed with the Gingrich acolytes that the nation must balance its budget? Point out that this Administration has not reduced government, it has borrowed money to engorge government programs to help the wealthy and buy votes. This Administration's fiscal policy will not have much of an effect in four years, but will be devastating in the medium and long term. Remember how the Vietnam War deficits created inflation in the 1970s and 1980s? Guess what is coming now? And that's if we're lucky. A more likely scenario is to relive the pain wrought by another great Republican, Herbert Hoover.

Bush/Cheney constantly herald the "tax cut" as some form of Libertarian, free-market, get government off our backs reform. This is bullshit. It is not a tax cut at all, but is rather a tax deferral. If Bush/Cheney continue to spend without paying for it, that is in effect a tax increase on future generations. Remember Bush say that he would never do anything to burden future generations? How do you think the budget deficits square with that statement? I guess that would be a "flip-flop," discussed further below.

So, here are a few simple political themes that should not be ignored:

National security. The mounting budget deficit is the most critical long-term security challenge this country faces. More than 40 percent of our debt is held by foreign countries and foreign investors. We are quickly placing our security in the hands of countries like China. Imagine a showdown over Taiwan. Do you really think China will engage our twelve aircraft carrier battle groups in a battle for Taiwan? No way. China will simply say, "Give us back our province or we will call your notes." And if China or any other major holder of our debt refuses to continue lending money, or demands higher interest rates, this will challenge our national security in a much larger way than an attack on a building full of stock brokers.

With the artificially-supressed interest rates today, about 14% of federal tax revenues pay interest on the past debt. Even if there are no more budget deficits, if interest rates are at 18% (as in the 1970s), the interest payments will consume 100% of federal tax revenues. So every budget deficit has a double-whammy: it both increases the total debt to be financed and raises interest rates.

So why don't we have a color-coded alert system for our economy? How come the security "threat" assessment doesn't even consider our national financial security? Because, according to the renowned economist Richard Cheney, deficits don't matter. Alan Greenspan (in his subdued style) said last week that we need to get the budget deficit under control right now. The Administration won't even listen to the Prince of the Goldwater Republicans? Kerry/Edwards should jump all over this one.

Political punch line. For national security reasons, I'd rather have a "tax-and-spend" president than a "borrow-and-spend" president any day of the week.

Character attack. There is a reason why Bush doesn't understand the problem with budget deficits: Bush is a child of privilege, who never had to deal with the consequences of his business failures. He never went bankrupt because he ran up credit card debt, because Poppy and Kenny-Boy were always there to save him with a new job, a professional baseball franchise, or a stolen election.[FN2] Bush will never appreciate the damage that he is doing with his budget deficits because links between fiscal irresponsibility and consequences do not exist in his world.

Trade deficits. Kerry/Edwards hit on the "outsourcing" of jobs a bit, but never really explain the fundamental flaws with the concept of free global markets or the impact on national security.

National security. America is not just exporting jobs, it is completely losing its manufacturing base. Isn't it obvious what this does to our national security? We are losing the ability to build airplanes, armored vehicles, guns, and even electronics that are so vital to fighting a real war. But more important, we are becoming more dependent on other countries to provide our basic needs for food, shelter, and clothing. Again, we are setting ourselves up to lose a war without firing a shot.

Political punch line. The Bush doctrine is to "go it alone." But the Bush reality is to make us more dependent on other countries for our basic needs and our defense. Would it not be better to negotiate treaties from a position of strength and mutual trust than to beg for goods from other countries? (I really like the concept that Bush is setting us up to be beggers to the rest of the world. I think it is powerful and true.)

Environment and energy policy.

National security. Global warming is not a theory, it is a scientific fact. (See this month's National Geographic for an excellent summary of this fact.) And it is a much more important threat to our national security than Islamic terrorism. See P. Schwartz and D. Randall, An Abrupt Climate Change Scenario and Its Implications for United States National Security (attached). In this October 2003 report commissioned by the Bush Administration's Department of Defense, the writers summarize how global warming will generate massive human migrations and battles for food and other resources. (The report says that climate change will probably be gradual, but that rapid change is possible. However, objective measurements taken over the past several years suggest that the climate is changing much faster than anyone expected.)

The Bush Administration's "policy" is to ignore even the most modest proposals to reduce our CO2 emissions, such as the Kyoto Protocol. In fact, our government actively subsidizes the worst environmental practices imaginable. We subsidize gasoline production directly and indirectly (through federal highway construction and the defense budget). We have a 100% tax credit to buy Hummers and other SUVs over three tons. (And only the super-wealthy can take advantage of these credits.) We keep building more freeways to subsidize urban sprawl to put everyone into cars, but refuse to spend much on mass transit. We subsidize coal mining and burning, which generates both CO2 and sulpher dioxide.

The Bush Administration's plan to reduce dependency on foreign oil is all about drilling at home and subsidizing construction of more nuclear plants.[FN1] This is extremely short-sighted and ignores the longer-term national security implications of environmental carnage. We subsidize the hell out of everything except renewable energy. How does that square with national security concerns?

Political Punch Line. The Bush Administration ignores the link between global warming and our national security. The Bush Administration's solution to our environmental and energy quagmire is to keep on burning fossil fuels... just get the oil from the good old boys in Houston instead of the Persian Gulf. That should work... for about 15 years.

Military. This Administration is guilty of at least two military policies that are contrary to our national security. First, American taxpayers are asked to pay defense contractors on a cost-plus basis to design new weapons. The defense contractors take on absolutely no risk that the research and development will result in profits. Then, the defense contractor gets to build the weapon, again on a cost-plus basis to avoid any risk. But here's the rub: the American people evidently don't own the design. The defense contractors are more or less free to sell the weapons to other "friendly" countries, which are then free to sell the weapons to "unfriendly" countries, with the result that American taxpayers are asked again to pay for a brand new design to keep ahead of our enemies on military technology. For example, justification for building a new generation of fighter jet (the relevance of which is waning) is not because Al Queda, Iran, and North Korea are designing and building better fighters, it is because these Axis of Evil states can buy our fighter jets. Duh. How is this not a national security threat? How can this Administration not see the issue and decide that we won't allow taxpayer-funded military designs to be sold to other governments. How come Kerry/Edwards won't articulate this problem? Is it because they are too afraid to move the gravy train away from Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Grumman, etc?

Our treatment of military personnel is a matter of grave concern for anyone interested in the more immediate threat to our national security. Rumsfeld has mostly ruined the National Guard by leaning so heavily on it in Iraq. Men and women with families are losing jobs (notwithstanding federal law that is supposed to protect jobs during active duty) and their homes. Active duty personnel on the ground in Iraq are grumbling about the logistical incompetence, the lack of well-defined military objectives, and broken promises about the conditions of service. How can this not be a threat to national security?

Assault weapons ban. Come on folks! The assault weapons ban was enacted because of an attempt on the life of President Reagan, one-time hero of the Republican Party (pre-Ralph Reed, of course). How can this not be an issue of national security? This Administration is proposing national identity cards, intense airport screening, and sealing the borders, but it is OK to buy automatic rifles and ammunition? Guess what? You don't need a shoulder-mounted rocket to take down a jet liner. Take-off speed for a 747 (like Air Force One) is only 150 mph. A couple of guys sitting at the edge of the runway (e.g. Peckham Lane) with automatic rifles could easily find the gas tanks on a 747 and bring it down! But this is not a security threat?

I guess in my book, the end of the ban on assault weapons would cause Mr. Ridge's color code system to go up a notch.

The big flip-flop. The Bush handlers have managed to paint Kerry as a "flip-flopper" and contrasted this with Bush's self-proclaimed "decisiveness." Why can't Kerry/Edwards articulate why this is bullshit? Bush has flip-flopped on dozens of key issues. Why can't the Kerry/Edwards campaign go back through the C-Span archives and put together a string of changes in direction by Bush? Hell, The Daily Show identifies at least one "flip-flop" by the Bush Administration every week. Take the battle to the intellectual terrorists, Bush/Cheney! Here are a few examples:

Mr. Bush's broken promise to retire $2 trillion of the national debt;

Mr. Bush’s broken promise not to spend the Social Security surplus;

Mr. Bush’s violation of his alleged free trade principles by imposing tariffs on imported steel and then his lifting of those same tariffs;

Mr. Bush’s inconsistent position on stem cells and the destruction of human embryos;

Mr. Bush’s opposition to and then support of a cabinet level Homeland Security Department;

Mr. Bush’s broken promise on control of carbon dioxide emissions;

Mr. Bush’s ever changing position of negotiations with North Korea;

Mr. Bush’s waffling between a policy of disarmament and a policy of regime change in Iraq;

Mr. Bush’s reneging on a promise to fully fund the Low Income Home Energy Assistance program (LIHEAP);

Mr. Bush's positions on Taiwan are ever-shifting and incoherent ("Incoherent" is a powerful word that Bush/Cheney has been using against Kerry... and Kerry won't fight back); and

Mr. Bush’s flip flop on apologizing to China when China forced a US spy plane to land without permission.

Mr. Bush’s flip flop on the abortion issue. Mr. Bush once said that the abortion issue should be left up to the woman and her doctor. Now, of course, Mr. Bush claims to be pro-life.

Mr. Bush's flip flop on the McCain-Feingold. During the 2000 campaign he was for it. Once in office, he was against it.

On gay marriage, Bush initially took the states right approach, responding “the state can do what they want to do.” Now, of course, Mr. Bush demands a constitutional amendment to bar the states from taking action in what has always been a matter of local control.

Bush can't make up his mind on affirmative action. When the University of Michigan affirmative action cases were before the Supreme Court, the Bush administration filed a brief opposing the programs. Mr. Bush said that the “method used by the University of Michigan …is fundamentally flawed." After the Supreme Court upheld the law school admissions program and reaffirmed that race can be one criterion in such decisions, Mr. Bush said he was “happy the nation's highest court recognized the value of diversity.”

There are more examples. You don't need a huge research staff to connect these dots. Why can't Kerry/Edwards and the Democratic party get the job done?

The emperor has no brain. The Bush/Cheney lies, the Bush/Cheney class war, and the Bush/Cheney crony capitalism are all easy enough to identify and attack. I think it is also possible and wise to attack the Mr. Bush's competence. He actually said we need tort reform because "OB/GYNs can no longer practice their love for women." Come on. You want to win the women voters back to your party?

And on the subject of women, I recently a bumper sticker that says, "'W' stands for women." In what way, I wonder. I think the record suggests otherwise. Certainly on reproductive rights, reducing employment opportunities, affirmative action, and health care issues, "W" definitely does not stand for women. Why isn't this a campaign theme when women voters are so critical to the election this time.

"W" stands for.... If Bush wants to play with silly word games, why not accomodate him. What does "W" really stand for?

"W" stands for WALL STREET.

"W" stands for WAR.

"W" stands for WAFFLE (see "flip-flop" above)

"W" stands for WORRY (if you don't vote for me, you will slaughtered by the Muslims)

"W" stands for WHITEWASH (in the case of Bush's "youthful indiscretions," business failings, links to Enron and Halliburton, flip-flops -- see above)

"W" stands for WASTED (as in our children's birthright, government dollars spent on the military build-up, opportunities to form strategic alliances, opportunities to address environmental issues, and the Clinton budget surplus)

"W" stands for WASTED (as in George W. Bush's state of intoxication during the Yale years, and even the cocaine binges at Camp David during Poppy's reign of error)

"W" stands for WAMBLY. (1. unsteady, shaky, staggering, or realling. 2. feeling nausea; nauseated.)

"W" stands for WANGLE. (1. to bring about by persuasion, influence, manipulation, contrivance. 2. to manipulate or change for a selfish or dishonest purpose, as statistics; falsify; juggle. 3. to wiggle or wriggle)

"W" stands for WORK WANTED sign at the edge of a freeway offramp.

"W" stands for WHOPPER.

"W" stands for WHACK JOB.

"W" stands for WAGE TAXES.

"W" stands for WALKING PAPERS.

"W" stands for WAHABI. (Ok, not really.)

Anyway, you get the idea. Just buy a cheap dictionary and have some fun.

Conclusions.
So, Chris, there it is: my 12-step program to re-defeat Bush. I hope your party can get it together in time to extricate us from the most disastrous presidency of my lifetime.

Have a nice day. Please call me for lunch. 786-8000.

Best regards,

Mike

[FN1] I think there is some merit to building nuclear plants, provided that we use breeder reactors like France. The breeder reactor extracts more energy from the uranium, and creates much less waste -- obviating the need to bury the waste. France reprocesses the material so that it need not be buried. I understand (from my friend, Steve Mestre, that the Carter Administration banned breeder reactors on the ground that they can create weapons-grade uranium. But I also understand that it is now possible to enrich uranium with lasers, so banning breeder reactors no longer limits weapons-grade uranium. I also understand that pebble bed reactors can be air-cooled, making them a good candidate to generate power were there is no water available.... like the arid portions of Nevada. This may not be a final solution to our rapacious energy consumption, but it seems like a possible bridge technology while we get some real renewable resources online.

[FN2] On my way to see the Edwards speech last night, a bunch of bloated frat boys (wearing what were evidently intended to represent giant flip-flops -- we called them thongs in my youth) confronted me, my wife, and two daughters and directed us to the "Second-place convention." I quietly turned and noted out loud that Bush/Cheney came in second-place last election, and they are nevertheless in the White House. I don't understand why Kerry/Edwards and the Democratic party is so reluctant to repeat that Bush/Cheney lost the popular vote by one half million votes, and then stole the electoral delegates from Florida by illegally disenfranchising fifty thousand Democrats. This Administration is turning our country into a banana republic on the environment, economy, voting rights....

Reply to:

Michael D. Hoy
Bible Hoy & Trachok
201 West Liberty Street, Third Floor
Reno, Nevada 89501
775.786.8000 x 102 (voice)
775.786.7426 (fax)
[email protected]

[Simply Joel]

I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat.
Will Rogers
US humorist & showman (1879 - 1935)

[DVD Burner]

I have a hard time understanding why it is that we are alllowing the Voting machine manufacturers to dictate to us what product they will or won't provide. If I show up at Burger King and I don't get it "my way" I leave. Why would it be any different with voting.

You have a hard time understanding that, I have a hard time understanding why George Bush is still President and not prosecuted by now for fraud and treason.

fraud & treason?

cites?

Only a monkey cant figure out what is legal and illegal:
No one has the fucking balls to take on this administratoin and make any charges stick due to too many stupid people that want to backup jackasses called "The Bush Klan":

Wednesday September 15, 11:50 PM

Annan: 'War On Iraq Was Illegal'


UN Secretary General Kofi Annan has said the war on Iraq was "illegal". Mr Annan said the war was "not in conformity" with the UN Security Council or with the UN Charter.He also said there could not be credible elections in Iraq next January if the current unrest continued.

Asked if there was legal authority for the war on Iraq, Mr Annan told the BBC World Service: "I have stated clearly that it was not in conformity with the security council, with the UN charter."

Mr Annan said there should have been a second UN resolution before the war on Iraq.

He said the Security Council had warned Iraq there would be "consequences" if it did not comply with its demands.

However, he said it should have been up to the council to determine what those consequences were.

Asked if the war on Iraq was illegal, he replied: "Yes, if you wish."

He then added: "I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN Charter. From our point of view and from the Charter point of view it was illegal."

[DVD Burner]

Posted on Wed, Sep. 15, 2004

Rohrabacher seeks to let foreign-born citizens run for president

ERICA WERNER

Associated Press


WASHINGTON - A California Republican congressman introduced a constitutional amendment Wednesday that would allow Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to run for president. But he insisted the candidate he really wants to see is a 76-year-old House Democrat from Hungary.

"There are those here today who will interpret this constitutional proposal permitting naturalized citizens to serve as president as a political ploy," Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, an early supporter of Schwarzenegger's gubernatorial bid, said in remarks prepared for the House floor.

"This is no ploy. I honestly believe that Tom Lantos should be able to seek the highest office in the land, just like any other elected official."

Lantos, D-Calif., who's served in the House for more than two decades, said he was flattered but saw no need to amend the Constitution.

"However, if the Austro-Hungarian Empire is re-established in the United States, I will invite Arnold Schwarzenegger to be my lieutenant," he said.

Joking aside, Rohrabacher said in an interview that Schwarzenegger is doing a great job as governor and voters might want to elect him president one day. But the Orange County lawmaker said that was just a short-term benefit to his proposal to allow anyone who's been a citizen for 20 years or more to be eligible to run for president.

"We've got some talented people who might be able to help our country and provide some much-needed leadership, and there's no reason if they've been a citizen for over 20 years to exclude them," Rohrabacher said.

His proposed amendment has companion legislation in the Senate authored by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah.

Schwarzenegger, who became a citizen in 1983, has said he supports amending the Constitution so he and other foreign-born citizens could be president. But he's sidestepped questions about whether he might want to run, saying he's focused on governing California.

It takes two-thirds majority votes in both the House and the Senate for Congress to propose a constitutional amendment, and then three-fourths of states must pass it, too.

[cowboyangel]

Christ...it's bad enough we have that idiot gropenfuurer for gov, please God please...not for prez

[DVD Burner]

I stated on this board last year the stratagie of how this was going to happen.

[beautytoo]

Simply Joel wrote

I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat.
Will Rogers
US humorist & showman (1879 - 1935)

Thats humorous and clever. I'm not sure that the problem with democrats is that they are disorganized though. My impression is that the problem with democrats is that they are just a more politically correct version of of predatory opportunists than Republicans. Be that as it may, they appear to be the only real contenders in the next election. I was wondering if anyone was interested in coming on down from that consequence free place of blissful idealism and talking shop about what is about to come down in November.

[Simply Joel]

You have a hard time understanding that, I have a hard time understanding why George Bush is still President and not prosecuted by now for fraud and treason.

fraud & treason?

cites?

Only a monkey cant figure out what is legal and illegal:
No one has the fucking balls to take on this administratoin and make any charges stick due to too many stupid people that want to backup jackasses called "The Bush Klan":

Wednesday September 15, 11:50 PM

Annan: 'War On Iraq Was Illegal'


UN Secretary General Kofi Annan has said the war on Iraq was "illegal". Mr Annan said the war was "not in conformity" with the UN Security Council or with the UN Charter.He also said there could not be credible elections in Iraq next January if the current unrest continued.

Asked if there was legal authority for the war on Iraq, Mr Annan told the BBC World Service: "I have stated clearly that it was not in conformity with the security council, with the UN charter."

Mr Annan said there should have been a second UN resolution before the war on Iraq.

He said the Security Council had warned Iraq there would be "consequences" if it did not comply with its demands.

However, he said it should have been up to the council to determine what those consequences were.

Asked if the war on Iraq was illegal, he replied: "Yes, if you wish."

He then added: "I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN Charter. From our point of view and from the Charter point of view it was illegal."

unlike the funds skimmed from the "oil for food" program managed by the UN?

Only a monkey cant figure out what is legal and illegal:{/quote] well, my simian counterpart, there seems to be a whole lot of monkeys out there...

[Simply Joel]

fraud & treason?

cites?

Only a monkey cant figure out what is legal and illegal:
No one has the fucking balls to take on this administratoin and make any charges stick due to too many stupid people that want to backup jackasses called "The Bush Klan":

Wednesday September 15, 11:50 PM

Annan: 'War On Iraq Was Illegal'


UN Secretary General Kofi Annan has said the war on Iraq was "illegal". Mr Annan said the war was "not in conformity" with the UN Security Council or with the UN Charter.He also said there could not be credible elections in Iraq next January if the current unrest continued.

Asked if there was legal authority for the war on Iraq, Mr Annan told the BBC World Service: "I have stated clearly that it was not in conformity with the security council, with the UN charter."

Mr Annan said there should have been a second UN resolution before the war on Iraq.

He said the Security Council had warned Iraq there would be "consequences" if it did not comply with its demands.

However, he said it should have been up to the council to determine what those consequences were.

Asked if the war on Iraq was illegal, he replied: "Yes, if you wish."

He then added: "I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN Charter. From our point of view and from the Charter point of view it was illegal."

unlike the funds skimmed from the "oil for food" program managed by the UN?

Only a monkey cant figure out what is legal and illegal:

well, my simian counterpart, there seems to be a whole lot of monkeys out there...

and... aren't we all monkeys?

[cowboyangel]

Anan is now only realizing the illegality of the stupid war? Like saying the Civil War killed alot of people....

[DVD Burner]

If one cant see the differences between monies siphoned for profit and bombing the shit out of and killing tens possibly hundreds of thousands of people.......fact is it's all wrong and all of the so called " leaders " you follow....not I......are a bunch of punk bitches. They all need to be strung up by their toe nails and beat with a very large stick.

To stick up for Bush and Co. is just plain wrong. You should face that fact Joel. Plus there is absolutely no reason for you to stick up for them anyway. what do you get out of it?

They will do like they do everyone all the time....fuck you over after you've upheld their policies. "Oil for food"? is that the best they/you've got? That is nothing like killing tons of people with a bunch of lies like Wolfowitz, Rumsfield, Cheney, and Bush and family has suckered everyone for centuries have done.

At least Sadam and Osama believe in what they are doing. Bush and Co do what they are doing because of 2 reasons:
1.) Because they hate everyone
2.) They really don’t know why they do what they do.

They are the biggest genetically defected group of people on the planet. Do you really want to support them? They will stain your heritage, your children, what you may stand for, for all eternity.

Is that what you really want? Your Kids will go into this war and will be killed almost guaranteed because of the biggest lie in history. You have generals that will not and are not looking out for the best interest of your kids or anyone for that matter. Who are really sick in the head. (Boykin is a classic example. I have been posting about him on this board for the past year.)

What exactly makes Bush and Co. any better than Osama or Sadam anyway?

Don’t fall sucker for the bullshit. Stay above the Frey.

There will be a war to fight but it will not be over seas.

[samtzu]

Joel wrote:

and... aren't we all monkeys?

I hate to quibble (none of us here would be caught dead quibbling) but we are great apes... well, maybe not that great... we are, possibly, good apes... or even mediocre apes... or, if you're a politician, a lesser ape, or a baboon... or, if you have a vestigal tail, you could be gibbon, or from certain rural areas of the U.S. (Like Congress) or you could be...

Aw, fuck it! Yeah, we're monkeys...

[DVD Burner]

As you may have noticed, I was going for the message not the grammar.

[Simply Joel]

Joel wrote:

and... aren't we all monkeys?

I hate to quibble (none of us here would be caught dead quibbling) but we are great apes... well, maybe not that great... we are, possibly, good apes... or even mediocre apes... or, if you're a politician, a lesser ape, or a baboon... or, if you have a vestigal tail, you could be gibbon, or from certain rural areas of the U.S. (Like Congress) or you could be...

Aw, fuck it! Yeah, we're monkeys...

thank you, thank you very much....

Elvis is leaving the building

[DVD Burner]

sorry for the long winded thingie there Joel but I really think you are better than the people you so proudly are dedicated to.

[samtzu]

What Burner said... with a side note....

I think that most of the people on the ePlaya are better than the causes and concepts that they have aligned themselves with. Left to themselves, without having to resort to dogma, most people are decent.

[Simply Joel]

sorry for the long winded thingie there Joel but I really think you are better than the people you so proudly are dedicated to.

well, isn't that the fucking point... to strive to be better... and demand better from our elected officials... the unfortunate matter from my perspective is... there was no better choice than AL GORE and GEORGE BUSH last election? and there still isn't a better choice this election... and despite all of the problems, we still have one of the better govermental models (not the people in the office, but the structure itself) than the non-sovereign entities (terrorists) offer. i have seen the word "anarchy" being bandied about freely, but, i don't think you really want to experience the absolute brutality that would ensue...

and please don't assume i dedicated to any one person... what i am dedicated to is the defense of the Constitution... you can take that one to the bank... politicians, hey, they work from me... and you if you are willing to supervise.

so, make sure you know what you are asking for, you may actually get it.


Main Entry: an·ar·chy
Pronunciation: 'a-n&r-kE, -"när-
Function: noun
Etymology: Medieval Latin anarchia, from Greek, from anarchos having no ruler, from an- + archos ruler -- more at ARCH-
1 a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2 a : absence or denial of any authority or established order b : absence of order : DISORDER <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature -- Israel Shenker>

[Simply Joel]

sorry for the long winded thingie there Joel but I really think you are better than the people you so proudly are dedicated to.

and another thing...

i actually believe all the previous administrations... Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson and Kennedy are all guilty of not addressing terrorism correctly... all things being perfect, I would have the USA in a more prominent, less ambiguous place in world standing... and there would be a lot of dead terrorist... if i had my way... and i imagine that is a good thing. me, not getting my way.

[DVD Burner]

well, isn't that the fucking point... to strive to be better... and demand better from our elected officials... the unfortunate matter from my perspective is... there was no better choice than AL GORE and GEORGE BUSH last election? and there still isn't a better choice this election... and despite all of the problems, we still have one of the better govermental models (not the people in the office, but the structure itself) than the non-sovereign entities (terrorists) offer. i have seen the word "anarchy" being bandied about freely, but, i don't think you really want to experience the absolute brutality that would ensue...

quite the contrary. I know absolutely what it ensues.

I've been advocating Anarchy for most of my adult life. In all its "clockwork orange" glory. ( and i dont see it as a movie.)
I strongly belive Anarchy will allow only the best and smartest to survive. in all it truthfully brutal reality.

It does not function as this current American gutless "pretty people only" club ways do.

[DVD Burner]

Anarchy would allow me to Beat George Bush and family and Klan to a fucking bloody pulp.

[cowboyangel]

ah well.... I'm for worker solidarity...WE are all workers.....if we unite there isn't anything we can't do......the people united will never be defeated...so find a union join it and reform it to be more democratically organized