Questions about Dubstep

[CornMan]

Is any of the dubstep being produced good enough to be relevant in the distant future? Is dubstep in general any good? Would it be possible for somebody completely untrained in music and who has never heard dubstep become proficient enough to dj a major party after a week or two of intensive training? Watch this video. I think I could do what he's doing after a week or two worth of lessons.

[youtube][/youtube]

[wh..sh]

Watch this video. I think I could do what he's doing after a week or two worth of lessons.

Then you should!
When there is a Zeke Chaparral concert, I might or might not come watch it.

[5280MeV]

Is any of the dubstep being produced good enough to be relevant in the distant future? Is dubstep in general any good? Would it be possible for somebody completely untrained in music and who has never heard dubstep become proficient enough to dj a major party after a week or two of intensive training? Watch this video. I think I could do what he's doing after a week or two worth of lessons.

Live performance is a tough thing in electronic music.
One can compose really cool music without having any
clue about how to play any of the "instruments" live -
if it is even possible to play the samples or sequences
live in any sense.

I do think that it would take less time to learn the minimal skill to be a dubstep producer/dj making derivative and predictable compositions than it would to learn drums and guitar and become a mediocre Beatles cover band.

Typing this on a phob
Ne is hard

It is very subjective to say what is required to become a

From what I have heard, Skrillex does not "do" all that
much in terms of live performance. The difficulty of
producing that music is a completely different matter.

[CornMan]

Yes, I agree that one would not be prepared to play in a rock band on a professional level after a week or two of lessons. Playing on the same level as the Beatles would really take some dedication.
[youtube][/youtube]

[junglesmacks]

Yay! Another electronic music is easy and anyone can do it and it's not music and takes no skill thread. I think you should combine this with an entire list of new, earth shattering ticketing solutions for a one-stop-shop seeing how both are an entirely new topic that has never been explored.

[Rice]

Whatever revs your chicken....

[youtube][/youtube]

[CornMan]

I wouldn't say that it's not music and that it doesn't take skill. I liken it to the analogy of dubstep is to drag racing as playing in a rock band is to motocross. I imagine that with a week's training, I could go down the drag strip in a top fuel dragster and appear proficient to the layman while I would make a complete fool out of myself on a motorcross bike on a professional track. An expert at drag racing will surely beat me in the 1/4 mile every time, but to the casual observer, I'll appear competent on solo runs.

[CornMan]

That cat has talent.

[Simon of the Playa]

it obviously takes talent to hate on Skrillex.


when you get to the grammy's, we'll talk.

[Rice]

I played that for about 15 minutes. After about 1 minute my cat left his comfy perch, and ran to his safety spot. He only returned when I played something else (aka - not dubstep).

Maybe my cat is weird, perhaps my cat has taste. In my experience, my cat's actions speak volumes...

Basically I do not like dubstep. I prefer other styles of music. My likes and dislikes have nothing to do with the skill of the performer/artist.

[disco_duncan]

.....Would it be possible for somebody completely untrained in music and who has never heard dubstep become proficient enough to dj a major party after a week or two of intensive training?....

HaHa. I don't like where this is going. Your'e not proposing to do this training so that you can DJ a dubstep set at our camp are you?

[theCryptofishist]

Is any of the dubstep jazz being produced good enough to be relevant in the distant future? Is dubstep jazz in general any good? Would it be possible for somebody completely untrained in music and who has never heard dubstep jazz become proficient enough to dj a major party play in a brothel band after a week or two of intensive training?

There is a set of cliches that an older generation uses to describe the artistic forms of a newer generation. At least you didn't fall into the trap of thinking that your generation's form is eternal. How would we know anything about a "distant future"'s taste? Do we find much relevant in a distant past?

In other words, without seeing the video, I find this kinda silly. I used to have a book of cartoons about modern art called "A Child of Six Could Do It". I'm not sure what to say here, but I think you'd have done better to be a bit more skeptical about your impressions.

[Eric]

I'm agreeing strongly with JS & Fishy, the idea that because something looks easy (or "sounds" easy) it is easy is a standard place for the untalented to hide. I don't hear many people who play music saying that good dubstep is easy. They may say it sucks, based on their personal preferences, but they know it takes training and effort to be good at it.

Example: I have friends that are mashup producers & promoters and run an extremely successful club. The most common refrain heard is "how hard can it be to mix two songs together?" Once you actually start listening to them, you realize that, yes, anyone can mash two songs together, but that very few of them can actually make it bearable to listen to and make it sound fresh. And when you get to mixing 6 or 8 or 40 songs together, it takes a genius to make it work.

Dubstep is the same way- I don't like most of it, but I still hear ones that get into my bones. I won't say my taste is good enough to distinguish a great one from a common one, just like I wouldn't compete with a sommelier on wine, even though I drink a lot of it; I will say I can appreciate the skills needed to make something without appreciating the final creation.

(Now photography or jewelry, which I do create, I have an attitude about)

[Bob]

[youtube][/youtube]

[Eric]

(Tubes mashup)

fun for the most part, but the transition at :46 is painful. (yes, I know it's the Tubes, it's still a crap transition)

This is a mashup I love right now, which I chose specifically because of the Skrillex to post here.

Kap Slap – Breakin’ The Doors (Skrillex ft. The Doors vs. Zedd vs. Florence + The Machine vs. Afrojack & Aoki ft. Miss Palmer vs. Calvin Harris vs. Pitbull vs. Ne-Yo vs. Katy Perry)

Check your speakers before clicking, may auto-play

[dj_john69]

whats this dubstep you speak of ?? Never heard of such thing.

[theCryptofishist]

I haven't a fucking clue.

[wh..sh]

whats this dubstep you speak of ?? Never heard of such thing.

Worth re-posting

[youtube][/youtube]

[5280MeV]

I think that there is a fundamental difference here, and this isn't just another case of old vs. new generation, this is a very fundamental shift in how music is produced and as a consequence has to lead to a radically different notion of how music is performed.

The audience at a live performance is conditioned to expect that when a lot of fast notes are played, they get to see someone expertly manipulate some physical instrument to make all of those pretty notes come through the speaker system.

What is discussed here is computerized music - and this music in most cases was never played by a human, never will be played by a human, and in some cases may not be possible to be played by a human using any combination of known physical instruments. So when the notes come out, it simply doesn't matter if it is being played "live" in any sense - the signal sent to the speaker is identical no matter if it is being generated by the computer now, or it was recorded earlier. The computer is perfect. One can cart in all their production gear and press go, or just throw in a CD and press go. There really is no meaning to the traditional concept of a live performance.

Producers do create killer performances in many ways. Some will actually play specific physical instruments that went into the track. Some will add triggers or remix different elements on the fly. They may DJ their own work, blend their own songs together, or even blend other songs into theirs. Some may add theatrics, light shows, costumes. In some cases, they may just rock out with the crowd.

For some of these things, expert physical skill is required. For others, not as much. I am willing to bet that if Skrillex gave you all his music and equipment, and spent a week training you on which knobs and buttons to manipulate at which time for a predetermined live set, then you could execute that set and jump up and down all you want. To determine what to manipulate at what time and to construct your own live set from his music would be much harder, and to program the actual music would likely be much harder still.

I can beat you all at chess if I have Garry Kasparov whispering the next move in my ear - physically manipulating the chess pieces is easy.

[junglesmacks]

FWIW, on a foreign pressing of the newest Skrillex EP, there's a full orchestral version of one of his tracks. It's bad ass.

[delle]

My daughter caught me watching this and nonchalantly chimed in "ah, that's Skrillex. I'm seeing him this summer".

Huh.

Turns out she already got her pass to the summer festival (for the scant $50 pre-sale price, she gets a full week of entertainment). And then her brother saunters by and chimes in "yeah, and she loaning it to me so I can see Aerosmith".


Wondering now if I should take a couple of days off that week and get in there to see something myself!

http://www.infofestival.com/Artistes/?s=musique

[junglesmacks]

[youtube][/youtube]

Who says that this music can't ever be played by live instruments?

[theCryptofishist]

I think that there is a fundamental difference here, and this isn't just another case of old vs. new generation, this is a very fundamental shift in how music is produced and as a consequence has to lead to a radically different notion of how music is performed.

I'm going to jump in here and say that definitions of and arguments about art change according to the technology available/used. And that's been going on for music since before Gregorian Chants were invented to take advantage of the acoustical properties of gothic cathedrals. Other turning points: Invention of oil paints; Invention of movie sound; Invention of printing press; Invention of the SLR; Invention of coal tar dyes. Note, that in all cases the basic form (singing, painting, movies, writing, photography, dress making) was already practiced. It's just that suddenly, new possibilities within those forms suddenly became possible, and creative people leapt in and figured out what that form could do. Many, maybe most, innovations in art are associated with changes in technology and social systems.
Not that you're wrong, MeV, it's just that looking at the long view, all sorts of sea-changes have occurred in the expressive arts, often generating the same old arguments.

[wh..sh]

Who says that this music can't ever be played by live instruments?

Spot on. This is brilliant!!! Seriously, music is what we make out of it. How can anyone determine what's bad or good?
[youtube][/youtube]

In my own sick heart, there will always be a special place for EDM.
Somehow, the constant repeat of a certain beat is very soothing to human mind, like a constant drum beat can help with trance state during meditation.
There is something about a being a little tipsy and let listening to EDM... takes you to a different world.
I introduced my colleague to dubstep. Curse me not! I thought she would hate it.
On the contrary, she said it was so easy for her to listen to it while working, without any distractions.

[theCryptofishist]

Somehow, the constant repeat of a certain beat is very soothing to human mind, like a constant drum beat can help with trance state during meditation.

Some would put it to swimming in the womb hearing your mother's heartbeat. There's little doubt that after the (human?) voice, the drum is the oldest instrument. Even before we started building drums we must have used branches against anything handy. Apparent the Baka beat the surface of water with their hands to create sound.

[CornMan]

I think I know where MeV is going with this. It's like the art of painting. Painting exhibits are mainly displaying the finished product - not having the painter paint something live in front of an audience. An expert dubstep composer could put together a masterpiece of sound, go to Cabo San Lucas to drink rum and cokes, and have the janitor fill in with a disguise to press play at the dance party in Ibiza and dance around and pretend he is at the controls. I believe it's been proven that Skrillex often pretends he is manipulating the sound from the controls when he is actually just waving his hand over them. But who is to say that plug & play music is necessarily a bad thing?

I do know some musicians who have said that the audience reaction to their music causes them to alter what and the way they play. In this sense, players of live instruments provide an interactive experience for the audience. But a classical pianist does not engage in any interactivity with the audience. Which is better? What art can be considered better than another?

Ah, but that first Skrillex video in this thread is actually a joke video with funny sounds overdubbed. That is not actually the Beatles singing either. Several people I know listened to it and could not detect the goofy overdubbed dubstep made by somebody who is not adubstep artist at all. It is very obvious that the audio in the Beatles video is made from non expert musicians. This makes me think that perhaps many people pretend (kid themselves actually) that they like dubstep in order to dance and appear as one of the cool, young people. However, this phenomenon is not peculiar to the art of dubstep.

[catinthefunnyhat]

Zeke: I was with you until this:

Several people I know listened to it and could not detect the goofy overdubbed dubstep made by somebody who is not adubstep artist at all. [....] This makes me think that perhaps many people pretend (kid themselves actually) that they like dubstep in order to dance and appear as one of the cool, young people. However, this phenomenon is not peculiar to the art of dubstep.

I think that when one is new to a genre of music, it's quite possible to like stuff that's terrible by the standards of expert listeners. Maybe you enjoy the broken beats, or the bassiness of the samples, or the funny feeling you get from hearing wub-wub-wub... so you dance, and you think, "Damn! I love dubstep!" but in reality, you have no idea what dubstep even is. Over time, if you keep seeking it out and listening, you'll develop a more critical ear and be able to appreciate "good" dubstep (or whatever genre) on a more intellectual level.

I liken this to my own experience with wine. When I first started drinking wine, I loved Piat d'Or. That stuff is pure plonk, but it's easy to drink, and it's the kind of thing they often serve at meetings or low-key charity events. Over time, I experimented with different varieties, went to a few tastings, read a bit... and while I'm far from any kind of an expert -- probably still a beginner in serious wine-loving circles -- I certainly have much more refined (and interesting) tastes than I used to. But... just because my favourite wine back in the day was something most "serious" wine drinkers would turn up their noses at, it would be incorrect to say that I was pretending to like wine, or tricking myself into thinking that I did.

[Simon of the Playa]

[CornMan]

Let's just let it be know that I myself dance to dubstep and find it fun. I'm certainly no expert, but the honking horn sounds in the Skrillex video are nothing but funny. He even put in a messed up quip of Smoke on the Water in there.

[H.G.Crosby]

RESPECT!


[vimeo][/vimeo]