2013 Tickets

[vwthingrcer1]

This is the easiest and most logical idea for next years program.
You already have The STEP program in place.
Step program will allow people to buy or sell tickets over a secure site good idea.. But they should have tickets being printed out or being able to print only days before the event
A. Have tickets that can be printed off at home couple days before and have scanners at the gate Easy and wouldnt cost much to get scanners and the prevents counterfitting.
B. Or The other option is that if Bunring man still wants to print tickets. Print the tickets days before the event. to almost make it a hassel for the scalpers becase they couldnt get ride of the tickets fast enough

[lemur]

these ideas are new to me

[theCryptofishist]

Here you go. All the other Most Logical Solutions...

[dj_john69]

already sold out...maybe 2014

[forty_eight]

idea: ticket is a secret handshake for a reno tattoo artist who specializes in qr code tats .. just don't let halcyon post the handshake on youtube until a day before teh gate pops (the announced time, not super-double secret time). qr codes are cinch - the tech mafia will provide the smart phones to gate. it's all good like that. no wait for entry or exodus, blm limit goes up to 2mm. disney becomes an official sponsor and ... yeahhhhhhhh








lol

really, though ... ideas shouldn't be so threatening. if you don't think what is being posted here is stupid enough, rest assured. it's out there.

[kiss-o-matic]

Why not do what the computer software industry is doing. The "ticket" should be an agreement between the burning man event and the purchaser. Transfer outside of STEP, is therefore, forbidden. Charge a fee to discourage a lot of hand-passing of tickets. Of course there could be forgeries and whatnot, but it pulls the rug out from under the scalping business. Or am I missing the point? Logistically it could suck checking IDs.

[theCryptofishist]

trilo's investigation of scalping says that it is not the problem, so designing a system to deter it only means that resources will be taken away from more important things.
Not everyone believes trilo's analysis.

[Elderberry]

Not saying that I'm up for this, but if you wanted to make it harder for "first time" ticket buyers and make sure they understand the event before they are permitted to buy their ticket, it could all be done programmatically the same way on-line traffic school does it.

You could have them read the first timers guide and the survival guide and pass a test before they are sent to the ticket purchase form.

It would assure that all first timers have read and understand the bare minimum, would require a time commitment to learning and would probably discourage all of the impulse buyers and many of the less committed; and would definitely make sure they not only understood the ten principles, but that they were important to the event.

[trilobyte]

I do a weekly index of a few events on a few key sites to get a sense of what's being offered there versus the total supply.

tracking.png

While there was a big jump in BMan ticket availability this week, it's still way below the number of tickets offered for other events. It's also worth noting that tickets haven't mailed yet for both Bonnaroo and the pair of Madonna shows I track, yet ticket listings/availability has been high. Coachella tickets didn't mail out until late March - while you do see an increase in tickets offered once they go out, there are no signs that scalpers didn't want to list tickets until they had physical tickets on hand.

[Elderberry]

I do a weekly index of a few events on a few key sites to get a sense of what's being offered there versus the total supply.

tracking.png

While there was a big jump in BMan ticket availability this week, it's still way below the number of tickets offered for other events. It's also worth noting that tickets haven't mailed yet for both Bonnaroo and the pair of Madonna shows I track, yet ticket listings/availability has been high. Coachella tickets didn't mail out until late March - while you do see an increase in tickets offered once they go out, there are no signs that scalpers didn't want to list tickets until they had physical tickets on hand.

Why do you do this?

[theCryptofishist]

Three possible answers:
1--he's a geek
2--he's a masochist
3--he thinks good information with drive out wacky unfounded opinions.

[Elderberry]

I'll bet there's a number four.

[theCryptofishist]

Implication being that he is doing this at the behest of the llc in order to defuse ticket discontent on this board?

[trilobyte]

Some from column 1 (I'm a logistics & complex systems geek) and some from column 3. People have been floating a number of crazy, conflicting theories on what happened with the main sale - this was data I've been pulling for HQ since the drawing (I hid the first couple weeks on the chart so everything would fit the width of the page of the report it prints on). Though the reports served their initial purpose, we felt there was some value in following it through both the Coachella cycle and ticket fulfillment.

[segregorich]

kiss-o-matic said:
"Why not do what the computer software industry is doing. The "ticket" should be an agreement between the burning man event and the purchaser. Transfer outside of STEP, is therefore, forbidden. Charge a fee to discourage a lot of hand-passing of tickets. Of course there could be forgeries and whatnot, but it pulls the rug out from under the scalping business. Or am I missing the point? Logistically it could suck checking IDs."

That was my thought, exactly. When an individual buys a ticket from BM in the first place, the ticket is uniquely assigned to their name. Only that attendee can enter the festival with that ticket. If the purchaser later decides s/he will not attend the festival, then s/he can 'eat' the ticket or sell it through STEP, where the ticket, if sold, would be assigned to another purchaser's name. Greeters would have bar-code scanners at the gate: scan the ticket bar-code, obtain purchaser name from the data base, and check attendee ID for name match. Given how much time is spent already to let each car pass through the gate, this process would not significantly alter timing of gate activities. Probably, STEP sales would need to be halted at some point prior to the festival opening. And, yes(!), charge a significant fee for entering a ticket into STEP (e.g., $100). This will discourage people from purchasing tickets early if they are 'not sure' if they will attend --encourage those who are committed to attending to purchase early: BM 'core' participants are committed to attending.

Scalpers? Counterfeits? Unless someone hacks the BM ticket database and/or starts issuing fake IDs, I don't see much of a threat.

The initial sale mechanism could still allow one person to buy multiple tickets; still, a unique name needs to be assigned to each ticket at the time of purchase.

[disco_duncan]

And, yes(!), charge a significant fee for entering a ticket into STEP (e.g., $100).

What about people who have genuine reasons why the can no longer attend such as redundancy or bereavement? Do you really want to kick them whilst they are down by charging them an exorbitant fee for putting the tickets into STEP?

[segregorich]

[quote="dtbee"][quote="segregorich"]And, yes(!), charge a significant fee for entering a ticket into STEP (e.g., $100).[/quote]

What about people who have genuine reasons why the can no longer attend such as redundancy or bereavement? Do you really want to kick them whilst they are down by charging them an exorbitant fee for putting the tickets into STEP? [/quote]

The actual STEP usage fee is something that BM would determine. The idea is to choose a value that is 'fair enough' but will also discourage people from buying tickets at the initial sale if they are 'unsure' about attending. All of the purchase agreement details would be made clear prior to the initiation of ticket sales. Those who are considering purchasing tickets can decide for themselves whether the terms and conditions are acceptable and, if they choose to purchase, take the risk of unanticipated events requiring them to opt for ticket resale via STEP, with its fees. Some people will buy early (taking the risk of having to sell at a loss via STEP) others will wait until they are more sure about whether they can attend (increasing the risk that they may not secure a ticket, if they ultimately choose to seek one).

The ultimate goals are to (i) discourage those who are on-the-fence about festival participation from buying tickets early, thus helping to promote ticket sales among those who are 'committed' to attend. This addresses BM concerns about adequate participation by attendees who contribute in important ways to the festival (they tend to be committed to attending 350 days before the Man burns) and the potential watering-down of BM culture if the representation of 'core' participants goes sub-threshold; (ii) deal a serious blow to scalpers and counterfeiters; and (iii) hopefully, if the first goal is obtained, then BM could do away with the lottery system, at least for a while.

The system described seems fair to me and it addresses many ticket- and attendance-related concerns of BMHQ..

[theCryptofishist]

The system described seems fair to me ...

Yeah, everybody thinks their system is fair...

[segregorich]

The system described seems fair to me ...

Yeah, everybody thinks their system is fair...

Care to elaborate on whether you think it is fair?

[wh..sh]

The ultimate goals are to (i) discourage those who are on-the-fence about festival participation from buying tickets early, thus helping to promote ticket sales among those who are 'committed' to attend. This addresses BM concerns about adequate participation by attendees who contribute in important ways to the festival (they tend to be committed to attending 350 days before the Man burns) and the potential watering-down of BM culture if the representation of 'core' participants goes sub-threshold;

The system described seems fair to me and it addresses many ticket- and attendance-related concerns of BMHQ..

I say people should have to sacrifice blood, flesh, and first borns to prove that they are "serious" burners. How else are we going to make sure people have NO life outside burning man? How I ask!!!?

It really seems unfair to me that we ACTUALLY give people liberty to decide what importance they want to give to burning man.

[theCryptofishist]

Ah, I always worry about those who condemn newbs as unworthy.

Anyway, I've seen so many varients on that theme, that I don't care to read them any more. I am totally fascinated with the justifications that the parade of people advocating such schemes come up with.

[segregorich]

I say people should have to sacrifice blood, flesh, and first borns to prove that they are "serious" burners. How else are we going to make sure people have NO life outside burning man? How I ask!!!?
It really seems unfair to me that we ACTUALLY give people liberty to decide what importance they want to give to burning man.

I am totally fascinated with the justifications that the parade of people advocating such schemes come up with.

I am amused and smiling. Thanks for that.

[Rice]

Dam,

I thought this subject had the crap beat out of it a few months ago...

I have yet to see any real proof that scalping is an issue.

[Eric]

Dam,

I thought this subject had the crap beat out of it a few months ago...

I have yet to see any real proof that scalping is an issue.

Yeah, there's no proof that voter fraud is a serious issue either, but you sure see a lot of attempts to stop it (usually by curtailing the rights of someone else to vote). "Scalping" is similar to "voter fraud"- a bogey-man to blame a problem on, so that schemes can then be thought up to deal with the "problem", usually to the benefit of the person with the scheme.

People can't or won't admit that the event has gotten so large that not everyone can attend anymore, so they come up with "totally fair" plans that gets themselves through the Gate but leaves others by the wayside (newbies, people who have to cancel, people who like to buy an extra ticket to gift to someone or for a camp-mate...)

The only honest, truly fair method with a demand > supply situation is a totally random drawing & then tickets with assigned names, all transfers through the BMorg. Of course, anyone who doesn't get a ticket that way will scream it was unfair because they didn't get one...

[theCryptofishist]

Dam,

I thought this subject had the crap beat out of it a few months ago...

I have yet to see any real proof that scalping is an issue.

I guess we never really killed that crap. We keep getting people who haven't done their homework and think that their ideas are completely fresh. At least it's slowed to a trickle.

[Rice]

I do not support scalping. Not at all.

What I mean is that I do not believe that scalping is a huge problem. If there were 10,000 or 20,000 tickets being scalped, sure that is a BIG FUCKING PROBLEM.

Scalping should be stopped. But redesigning the ticket & gate process to deal with a unproven issue does not make sense (Crap, that was a subject I was trying to not talk about.)

The main problem is greed.

[theCryptofishist]

*supportive hug*

[gyre]

I really don't understand the logic here.

So everyone agrees the event won't sell out any longer?

[BBadger]

I am totally fascinated with the justifications that the parade of people advocating such schemes come up with.

It really is funny. Seniority is really the most flawed of concepts when measuring value.

"I'm an n-th year burner and am more worthy than burgins because I happened to just show up more in the past than them."

[TheObserver]

EVERYONE was a newbie before they were not a newbie no more........

Even YOU!!!!!

So because you were a newbie before someone else was a newbie, you should be regarded as more worthy...........?????

Sorry, this is only directed toward past burners that seem to think beings that haven't been yet, aren't worth having on the playa..........no new members in the country club?