BMORG lies about Burning Man's Rape Problem

nignog · Post by **nignog** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:19 pm

Check out this article from the SF Chronicle, in which a BMORG representative (Tony Perez) tells a bare-faced lie about the rape problem at Burning Man, claiming that there has never been a rape there. Obviously BMORG is desperate to downplay the problem, because they're worried that it would discourage attendance and cut into their profits. However, I suspect that any Burning Man rape victim who decides to sue BMORG could use this quote from Tony Perez in their case, to show that BMORG has intentionally misled attendees about the danger of rape at Burning Man. I will definitely email Carol Lloyd, and alert her to some of the harrowing accounts of rapes at Burning Man that have been posted here on the ePlaya.

Burning Man Gets Zoned
Black Rock City may be the wildest art party on earth, but it still needs infrastructure, roads and enlightened planning.

by Carol Lloyd, special to SF Gate
Tuesday, June 15, 2004

What happens when a band of naked, fire-worshipping anarchists attract a massive following? Well, they become a city -- a city with infrastructure, departments, city services, subdivided blocks and, yes, even that apogee of municipal control: zoning.

Such was the paradoxical theme of a recent talk by Tony Perez, city superintendent of Black Rock City, the incidental metropolis that springs up each year during the last week of summer on the high-desert playa of Nevada. Burning Man, the 19-year-old festival of art, eccentricity and communal spirit, was once known as a place where anything could happen -- and probably would -- and, in many ways, it still is. It is a clothing-optional community where drugs, if not legal, are not exactly uncommon. And, with the exception of the sale of two indispensable commodities -- ice and coffee -- legal-tender commerce is expressly forbidden.

But as Burning Man has become more successful and has attracted increasing numbers of temporary citizens -- from 8,000 in 1995, when the festival first took place on Nevada's Black Rock plateau, to 31,000 last year and as many as 40,000 expected this summer -- the founders have had to evolve their once-disorderly encampment into a plotted urban landscape with neighborhoods, roads and -- gasp! -- even real estate regulation. Now, the organization that sponsors the event has 20 full-time employees, a Department of Public Works, a DMV (Department of Mutant Vehicles), a tech department, a media department, an infirmary and an airport.

Is it real life? Not exactly. But the urban planning of Black Rock City offers a rare look at the lifeblood of all urban civilizations. What is it that makes a city work? What is essential, and what is it possible to do without?

Black Rock City may be a utopian venture, but it's not without its practical needs. And, in its evolution, it's had to learn from the nuts and bolts of ordinary cities.

"We had to learn to be a society," said Perez of the process of earning the trust of local law-enforcement agencies and government entities. "We've gone through adolescence, and we had to grow up."

Like that of developments in many cities, the urban planning of Black Rock City came as a response to tragedy. "In 1996, we lost control of the crowds -- we had loss of life due to traffic accidents," explained Perez to a crowd of urban-planning aficionados and Burning Man fans at a recent lunchtime forum at San Francisco Planning and Urban Research Association, a nonprofit think tank.

Traffic accidents revealed the need for more carefully designed space with more municipal controls -- including a city grid. Roads, it turned out, are not an autocratic convention designed to kill the spirit of the people, but a necessary element for harmonious cohabitation.

To cut down on noise, traffic and dust, the city prohibits people from driving the vehicles they arrived in once they have set up camp. "It's against the spirit of Burning Man to be insulated in your car with the AC on," Perez said. Instead, he added, denizens bring along bizarre bikes, motorized armchairs, golf carts and other mutant vehicles to help them get around. The result is a truly lively and friendly street life. "It's the most bike-friendly city in America," Perez declared.

As the festival has become known as the best weeklong party on Planet Earth, however, Black Rock City has faced the age-old community question: How do you attract the right sort of people?

"We wanted to discourage the yahoos who thought, 'Let's go up there for the girls,'" said Perez. In 1998, the planners erected fencing for the first time. By 1999, a 7 1/2-mile barrier forming a pentagon around the community enclosed about 4 1/2 square miles of open space. Inside this line, the city has grown every year, now spanning about 1 1/2 miles in diameter.

Burning Man is accessible only to ticket holders through a single gate, and vehicles are routinely searched for stowaway freeloaders. (In 1997, tickets cost $100, but now they range from $165 to $250.) Despite its anarchic roots, Black Rock City now shares many of the features of other gated communities -- barriers that can turn people away, plus official greeters, as well as regulations governing neighborly conflicts. Whether it's due to old-fashioned exclusivity or the Burning Man communal spirit, however, the micro-society seems to be working. Instead of trading money for goods, citizens give gifts. And, for a clothing-optional community, there has been a remarkable lack of sexual predation -- according to Perez, there has never been a rape at Burning Man.

How does a tribe of cosmic dreamers sit down and design a city? As one might imagine, the process drew from disparate sources and methods -- ancient and modern, idealistic and pragmatic. The design began simply as a circle around the Burning Man, a giant humanoid sculpture incinerated on the final night of the festival. In 1998, Perez made the first city plan based on a horseshoe, which he called a failure, because it was too difficult to create. The next year, the organizers settled on the shape of a clock, with blocks spanning from 2 o'clock to 10 o'clock. Every 15 degrees is equivalent to half an hour, giving participants a way to instantly determine their whereabouts.

Since then, the city has grown by simply adding layers to the concentric circles. In the first one, at 6 o'clock, Center Camp offers public art projects and an acre of shade under a parachute tent, where a café sells ice and coffee.

Surrounded by the blueprints from various incarnations of Black Rock City, Perez spoke of the origin of the community's physical shape. "It was based on ancient ruins," he said. "Every year, we begin the process of building the city. Standing in a ceremonial circle, we drive a cement stake into the middle of the city." Then, more than 100 volunteers go about making a metropolis from scratch. Perez uses a turn-of-the-century railroad transit (a sort of rotating telescope with crosshairs) to determine the placement of the blocks fanning out from the center. ("Anything electronic fries in the sun out there," he explained.) Lines of volunteers drag 200-foot-long chains to determine the parameters of the blocks, and, finally, Perez creates the "roads" the low-tech way: by leaving tire tracks as he drives his truck along predetermined routes.

According to Perez, the city takes a month to set up and another four weeks to get rid of, and, he said, "that's the hard part." About 60 participants pick the camps clean of all garbage and refuse and ash, though, because Burning Man tends to attract what Perez characterized as a "pretty enlightened" bunch, the citizenry is remarkably good about following one of the city's cardinal rules: Take your trash with you. "It reinstills your hope in human nature," he said of walking through site after site with not so much as a love bead left behind.

What makes people act so respectably? Old-fashioned peer pressure, evidently. "Your neighbor's doing it, so you do it," he said. "It works like that."

This summer, according to the astronomy theme for Burning Man 2004, Black Rock City will have 10 circles with streets named for planets and other celestial bodies. Other additions to the design have been relatively minimal: For years, planners experimented with smaller plazas, but these locales initially failed to attract outsiders and seemed to foster feelings of ownership. "It was, like, 'This is our plaza,'" Perez explained. Since then, he and his crew have created two smaller additional plazas, which open onto the esplanade, for happenings and art displays. They've also an extended two lines of palm trees that cross through the Burning Man circle.

Though the design has remained relatively similar over the years, the city's steady population growth has naturally created complexity. "In the outer edges, it's more suburban," said Perez. "People take up more space -- some people even have lawns and golf courses. In the inner city, it's more dense. People are arguing over inches."

Neighborhoods have naturally sprung up as well, with people banding together around certain cultural interests or identities. "We've got our gay ghetto," said Perez. "We've got our Tenderloin." Recognizing that people naturally create villages within the city, the organizers have even begun something they call gentle zoning.

Harley Dubois, a member of the Burning Man organization's board who runs many of the departments related to the cultural creation of the temporary society (the gate, the greeters, the information services and the camp-placement agency), said that now she sometimes encourages certain groups to camp near one another. She informs families about an area known as Kidsville and situates all camps that look as if they might have sexually explicit themes together and away from the family-friendly zone. In addition, one village known as Hushville, which has determined not to use generators or loud music, has gradually grown into a larger sector of the city, as Dubois has had attempted to find like-minded groups to situate near the Hushvillites.

Nearly one-third of the city -- consisting of the choicest sites within the central concentric circle -- is reserved for theme camps -- public interactive areas that offer events, art, shelter or sustenance. In a gift economy in which even crude barter is discouraged, these areas create something like a commercial district.

"A theme camp is akin to a business or storefront," said Dubois, who sifts through hundreds of applications from people vying for the central blocks of the city. Although she doesn't judge ideas on aesthetics, she said she does require the applicants to "jump through certain hoops" by furnishing her with a bird's-eye design of the camp complete with dimensions, a written clean-up plan and proof that the inhabitants can safely undertake their idea. "Sometimes that three-story dance floor sounds great, but it's not clear how it will hold up under 80-mile winds," she added.

The organizers have also had to deal with a strange fact about human beings' relationship to land: Even when it involves camping in the desert, experiencing temperatures that can reach 120 degrees and winds that may approach 80 miles per hour, the temptations of real estate persist.

"I really discourage people feeling ownership over the real estate," she said. "If people always get the same places, it will create turf wars."

Despite her efforts, certain parts of the city, such as the esplanade that borders on Center Camp, naturally take on a certain allure.

"It's like our oceanfront property," she explained. Because the esplanade forms the city center, Dubois takes pains to place theme camps there that are most likely to benefit the greatest number of people. She requires that these camps be visually stimulating and interactive 24 hours a day, and she keeps the area family friendly, avoiding placing sexually explicit camps in the most central spots.

For all Black Rock City's fame as a place for free expression, it's remarkable how many elements of the community come from far more regulated social bodies. In her role as camp-placement queen, Dubois functions a little like a benign monarch, determining the social design from the top down. And the gate provides many of the controls of a gated community, shielding it from the true anarchy of the huddled masses. Weird outfits, too, are all very well and good, but there's nothing like a good dose of peer pressure when it's time to clean your campsite.

What's remarkable about the urban planning of Burning Man is how this social experiment illuminates what is essential about what we need to live together. Do we need money? Maybe not as much as we think we do. But do we need roads -- oh, yes. In any case, nothing can be left to the whims of freedom. Safety requires control, giant groups demand intelligent design and culture thrives in smaller tribes. Form must bend to function, but function is elevated by beauty. And perhaps most enlightening is what is learned as a result of the continual remaking of this temporary city, allowing Black Rock City's urban planners to experiment with creating the perfect city.

Sensei · Post by **Sensei** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:31 pm

Old news, troll-boy. And I'm sure Carol needs your help. I especially like your legal advice.

Please people, let this thread die the death it deserves.

nignog · Post by **nignog** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:34 pm

Yes, rape is old news. Let's sweep it under the rug, shall we? The bitch probably deserved it anyhow.

YerNotDaBossOMe · Post by **YerNotDaBossOMe** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:45 am

Code: Select all

Old news, troll-boy. And I'm sure Carol needs your help. I especially like your legal advice. 

Please people, let this thread die the death it deserves.[quote]

I'm missing something.  Why is this a troll and why should the thread die?  It might be better placed in the other thread on this topic, but I found the article to be interresting and illustrative of a problem with BMOrg.  And I think the poster had a good point about the legal aspects, however draconian it might seem.  I'm not advocating legal action, by any means.  But I agree that BMOrg might be exposing themselves to litigation if they claim no rapes had occured when they knew that was untrue.

Seriously...what am I missing here?[/quote]

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:55 am

Well, this person is a troll because they were laughed at as a child and are now getting back at anyone that they feel is having more of a real life than they are... fuck 'em! We all have our issues. Deal with them and move on.

Rape, on the other hand, is a serious issue and needs to be dealt with seriously, as it has been in the "Rape does occur at Burning Man" thread. That is a serious discussion where real people are looking for real answers. This shit disturber is just trying to get people riled up and angry. That doesn't solve anything. The troll doesn't want answers, just chaos. They are just trying to take a huge dump in the middle of the Burning Man community.

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:16 am

Well, the article never gives a direct quote, he was paraphrased. The mistake could be on the part of the writer, making assumptions in the name of "reading between the lines" in order to fill up column space. What is fact is that BMORG have swept the rape issue under the rug for years. I know this to be a fact because a friend of mine was one of the girls that was Rhopie'd and date-raped at the festival a few years back.

The drug didn't take completely, she was just paralyzed and not knocked out, and she positively ID'ed the perp. She and her boyfriend undertook a search for the guy that spanned the whole of Nevada in addition to the entire West Coast. They finally caught up with him in San Francisco; he was doing/had done the same thing to several other girls, including a minor. They got in touch with one of his other victims for corroboration and he was arrested.

Here's what happened: the fucking SF DA plea-bargained him, offering to drop the sex charges if he plead guilty to the drug charges. He did, and was back out on the street after a couple years. I understand there's now a law in California, that prohibits plea-bargaining in the case of sex offences, specifically because of this.

truthfairy · Post by **truthfairy** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:17 pm

diane o'thirst wrote: Here's what happened: the fucking SF DA plea-bargained him, offering to drop the sex charges if he plead guilty to the drug charges. He did, and was back out on the street after a couple years. I understand there's now a law in California, that prohibits plea-bargaining in the case of sex offences, specifically because of this.

I am confused after reading this. Why would a DA in San Francisco be involved in prosecuting a crime that took place in Nevada? Was it a Federal case?

Are there any sexual assault prosecutions or convictions for incidents that occured at Burning Man?

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:07 pm

Walmart lies about the rape problem in their parking lots too.

Lets shut down all Walmarts!

Actually, rape happens anywhere there is a buttwad rapist and someone to rape.

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:08 pm

The SF DA prosecuted offenses made in San Francisco, which were happening when he was caught.

I think the FBI should have stepped in since the perp travelled across state lines for the purposes of both committing a felony and fleeing the scene of the crime and the rapes at Burning Man were proof of that; for some reason the ball was dropped and/or they weren't called in. But if there was ever a case for the Feds to be involved, this is one — especially since at the time we weren't embroiled in a watch against international terrorism.

I'll check with my friend on how the case has developed. They had a name and a photograph of the guy. Be on the lookout for a young man of Oriental extraction who goes by the Playa name of "Romeo." He had long black hair which may have been cut off by now.

KellY · Post by **KellY** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:19 pm

The reason the asshole who started this thread is a troll is because he or she is using the existence of sexual assaults to attack the LLC and the event itself. Just think of the very title: "Burning Man's Rape Problem". I got news for you: rape, date-rape, drugging, etc are problems all over the country -in college campuses, nightclubs, etc. To try and define it as an occurance that's directly linked to the event that the LLC is trying to "cover up" is bullshit. Though I lack statistics in front of me, I strongly suspect that less sexual aasualt occurs at the event than Yale's Fraternity Row during homecoming weekend.

We really don't know exactly what Perez said to the author of the article - it may very well be that there has never been an actual "rape" reported to the cops at Burning Man. Diane's own story is a case in point - why WEREN'T charges filed in Nevada as well as San Francisco? I realize how traumatic sexual assault is and I'm not going to blame a woman for her behaviour after being attacked, BUT if it's not reported at the event what's to be done?

Personally, I don't think it's going to kill or even signifigantly hurt the event if a sexual assault that occurs in BRC is made public and prosecuted fully. If anything, I hope it would improve safety at the event, by discouraging would-be predators and warning women that it's as likely there as anywhere else. I don't ever recall any statements by the LLC saying that Burning Man was the safest place on earth, nor do I recall anything in the Survival Guide that says not to worry about sexual assault. And I do not believe for one tenth of a second that anyone in the LLC would pressure a woman to not report an assualt, press charges, or whatever to "protect the event".

Lastly, trollboy's eagerness to encourage victims to sue the LLC shows his purpose is much more anti-event than pro-victim's rights. Does he really think a woman could win a lawsuit against the LLC for not saying "Beware of sexual predators"? What are they supposed to do, have a thousand Rangers peeking inside every tent on the half hour to make sure everything's OK? You think someone could sue the city of New Orleans if they were attacked during Mardi Gras? Should they sue a nightclub because someone slipped something into their drink there? Get real.

KellY · Post by **KellY** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:32 pm

Okay, Diane and I cross-posted, but there's still an important question in my mind: did Diane's friend report the incident to the LEO's at the event- if not, why not, especially if she had a description of the guy? If she did, what was done?

I'm not trying to attack your freind in any way Diane, really, but in the context of discussing sexual assault at the event and the LLC's reaction, I think this is important. You made it sound like your friend and her boy hunted for the guy themselves. Did they report it at all? Did they attempt to contact any LEO's in Nevada, or the LLC itself after the perp was caught, saying "Hey, this guy who assaulted me at Burning Man is in custody in San Francisco, I want to press charges"? The fact that he was only prosecuted for crimes in San Francisco makes it sound like your friend didn't try to press charges herself.

I only bring this up in light of the hand-wringing over what "The org should have done". Really, what should they have done?

YerNotDaBossOMe · Post by **YerNotDaBossOMe** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:45 pm

The reason the asshole who started this thread is a troll is because he or she is using the existence of sexual assaults to attack the LLC and the event itself. Just think of the very title: "Burning Man's Rape Problem". I got news for you: rape, date-rape, drugging, etc are problems all over the country -in college campuses, nightclubs, etc. To try and define it as an occurance that's directly linked to the event that the LLC is trying to "cover up" is bullshit. Though I lack statistics in front of me, I strongly suspect that less sexual aasualt occurs at the event than Yale's Fraternity Row during homecoming weekend.

I see your point, but I didn't read it that way. If I wanted to talk about issues of sexual assault in Mayberry, I might call that thread "Mayberry's Rape Problem." It would not be an attack on the town, but rather a discussion of OUR rape problem vs. that of other towns.

And I realize you are using hyperbole, but having less rapes than the Yale Frat Row is not really a goal I can embrace. I think a better goal would be ZERO assaults at BRC.

Personally, I don't think it's going to kill or even signifigantly hurt the event if a sexual assault that occurs in BRC is made public and prosecuted fully. If anything, I hope it would improve safety at the event, by discouraging would-be predators and warning women that it's as likely there as anywhere else. I don't ever recall any statements by the LLC saying that Burning Man was the safest place on earth, nor do I recall anything in the Survival Guide that says not to worry about sexual assault. And I do not believe for one tenth of a second that anyone in the LLC would pressure a woman to not report an assualt, press charges, or whatever to "protect the event".

Although I don't know either way, I suspect you are correct that the BMOrg does not purposefully cover up the issue. But I think there is a lot of room for more openness on the topic, especially after having read some of the comments on the topic here and in other threads.

As a virgin this year, I would never have expected this to be an issue AT ALL. Since it is, I would hope that it got specifically addressed in the Survival Guide. Of course they would not say it isn't a problem, and it may happen statistically less than the national average. But if newbies come thinking they are perfectly safe due to their perceptions of community, then a warning might prove helpful.

Lastly, trollboy's eagerness to encourage victims to sue the LLC shows his purpose is much more anti-event than pro-victim's rights. Does he really think a woman could win a lawsuit against the LLC for not saying "Beware of sexual predators"? What are they supposed to do, have a thousand Rangers peeking inside every tent on the half hour to make sure everything's OK? You think someone could sue the city of New Orleans if they were attacked during Mardi Gras? Should they sue a nightclub because someone slipped something into their drink there? Get real

Sadly, the kind of lawsuits you mention DO happen all the time.

As to what SHOULD be done...I'm not sure. I'm still trying to get my arms around the nature of the BMOrg and where their responsibilies begin and end. But I am pretty clear about MY responsibilities as a BRC citizen. I need to do what I can to prevent this from happening. Encouraging open discussion about it is, I think, a good start - even if the discussion enters into volitile areas, such as lawsuits against the LLC. IMHO, the sanctity of BMOrg should take a back seat to the sanctity of a woman's body.

This is not to say that original poster was not trolling - I don't know. But I have learned a few things from this thread, so I'm glad he did it.

[/quote]

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:04 pm

I seem to remember that she did report what happened to her. Heck, her boyfriend raised high holy hell over it, I can't remember anyone so pissed off and at the same time so determined to play by the rules and have all their t's crossed and i's dotted. They went around the Esplanade the next day, telling people to watch out for this guy and help them catch him but apparently he'd already fled.

The victim's boyfriend was on several Internet fora with their story and pleas for help, and he made a point of working in concert with local LEOs in every community they searched in. Specifically, the boyfriend was saying that he didn't want to screw this up, he was that passionate about it. They both reported back to everyone they made contact with with regular progress reports, including the corroboration of the other victim, Romeo's arrest and that damnable plea bargain.

If I sound vague on some of the points, I apologize and please keep in mind that this incident went down in 2000. The day after the attack her boyfriend was hanging out at the Point Arena camp on the Esplanade, trying to get his head together and work through the trauma and depression that set in.

Before we get any shouts of "Innocent until proven guilty," let me just say that Romeo was proven guilty and his sentence was reduced via plea bargain. I'm not out to slander anyone, I'm spreading the word on a sexual predator and blowing the whistle on justice system corruption. It didn't happen to me but it did happen to a friend and that's my motivation, loyalty to her. And as far as I'm concerned, it's being talked about. It's in the community consciousness. That if nothing else is good!

Aside to Geekster: I'd cheer the shutdown of WalMart for lots of reasons; them lying about parking lot rapes being just one of them

Sensei · Post by **Sensei** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:33 pm

I'd like to thank samtzu, diane o'thirst and KellY for their intellingent and thought provoking responses to troll-boy's thread. Amazing, really. He takes a shit and you guys plant trees.

See, with me it's that title of the thread - "BMORG LIES about Burningman's Rape Problem". Like Larry(tm) and Co. are conspiring on how to keep the lid on all this... That, and the other threads that troll-boy started ("Has the IRS ever audited BM?" "Which has more black people: BM or ..." and "Did BMORG kill the golden goose". And these were within minutes of each other, and troll-boy's "first" posts. Uh-huh.)

Samtzu wrote: Rape, on the other hand, is a serious issue and needs to be dealt with seriously, as it has been in the "Rape does occur at Burning Man" thread. That is a serious discussion where real people are looking for real answers. This shit disturber is just trying to get people riled up and angry. That doesn't solve anything. The troll doesn't want answers, just chaos. They are just trying to take a huge dump in the middle of the Burning Man community.

Thanks again, especially to diane o'thirst for making something positive out of troll-boy's dump. And tell your friend (and her boyfriend) that they are truly heroic. I'm left wondering how many women were spared because of their diligence. Heroic, indeed.

skypilot · Post by **skypilot** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:15 pm

lie?? you got any proof of that, you shit-slingin' dog? you have NO proof that perez or harvey is lying. you need to be careful of this shit, usually if you accuse somebody of a lie in nevada frontier justice takes over, and your dental work might get re-arrainged, free of charge. bugger off, you cockroach. :x

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:50 pm

Skypilot wrote:

lie?? you got any proof of that, you shit-slingin' dog? you have NO proof that perez or harvey is lying. you need to be careful of this shit, usually if you accuse somebody of a lie in nevada frontier justice takes over, and your dental work might get re-arrainged, free of charge. bugger off, you cockroach. :x

Rape is a crime of violence and you don't stop violence with more violence... although my internal primate reaction is the same as this one, and, although I truly believe that I would enjoy beating the hell out of nignog, it wouldn't solve anything, plus I would then be facing a felony rap. Naw, let Shit-for-a-conscience stew in his/her own bile. That's vengence enough. After all, all s/he slung was words, not a tire iron.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:53 pm

It's shades (**again!!!**) of LarryHarvey'sHat and such characters.

These people are seriously not worth our time folks...

skypilot · Post by **skypilot** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:36 pm

:x i do have problems with certain people in the org, but i tell them to their face. there is enough rumor, lies, and innuendo to go around. how many people here know of someone who's life was screwed over by a careless, spiteful rumor? being in police work, the slightest hint of wrongdoing due to a slander or mistruth lands someone behind a desk until their good name is cleared. and the rats that spread these rumors are like this cockroach who started this crap about perez and harvey. I worked closely with perez at fly ranch and he seemed pretty good to me-not the kind to pass off something as serious as rape. do you have the stones to say that to his face, you rumor mongering toad? that's my .05 cents worth.

Post by **actiongrl** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:58 pm

Diane - Ask your friend whether anyone at Burning Man tried to help her case; I think you might be surprised.

And please, tell her I said hi; we haven't talked since the last development in the case (the SF stuff) but I do wonder about her often.

turtlemind · Post by **turtlemind** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:15 pm

In a lot of ways BRC culture increases the risk for rapes. How? Well, first of all many of us are more likely to be trusting of people on the playa. We expect or hope for good Karma before bad. Secondly, there's an air of 'anything goes' at BRC. For a person that would commit such a crime they may not see the parenthetical 'within good Karma read: that doesn't hurt someone else'. Third, some people simply have bad safety habits. Please don't read this as 'they deserve it'. What I'm saying is there are precautions we can all take especially if we know we are going to be in an altered state...like using the buddy system, always having someone to look out for you as well as looking out for your buddy.

The utopian blind eye is not the answer. It's a scary world out there, and even though it might feel like it at the time, BRC is not in a utopian bubble.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:25 pm

Turtle
We touch on some of those things in this thread
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=6937
maybe you can read it and get add anything else that you think needs to be added.
I prefer that thread, because thus far the level of discourse is the best of the three rape threads that have arisen after this year's event.
I hate to say this, but nignog seems like a troll to me. (SEEMS) This board grows trolls like RtW grows back hair and we get touchy. (4 major trolls in a year and they do seem to crawl out just before and just after the event.)

bigpurple · Post by **bigpurple** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:00 am

Rape is a crime of violence and you don't stop violence with more violence

A truly noble sentiment, but wrong - dead wrong. In fact, one of the best uses of violence is to stop rape and other crimes of violence.

DangerMouse · Post by **DangerMouse** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:00 am

Which includes being aware of your surroundings and making wise decisions regarding your safety. Which is not to say that someone who has been raped is at fault at all, ever. Simply that many of the circumstances surrounding such events if you are aware of your surroundings and alert. When drugs are involved, it gets more difficult though.

Rape can happen anywhere, it is not something unique to BM.

Granted this thread is indeed merely a troll thread. But if anything it underlines that while we are not responsible for others while there, it doesn't help to look after their safety if you can.

I could see why BMORG wouldn't want to discuss it. The press that they get is already tenuous at best. They don't need the whole event being declared a drug-riddled rape-fest on Faux News.

And now back to your regularly scheduled trolling.

BMORG lies about Burning Man's Rape Problem

BMORG lies about Burning Man's Rape Problem

Things to consider