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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:52 am

cowboyangel wrote:ah well.... I'm for worker solidarity...WE are all workers.....if we unite there isn't anything we can't do......the people united will never be defeated...so find a union join it and reform it to be more democratically organized
That's a very easy Brainwash.

That's what's going on now and it is'nt working.
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Post by cowboyangel » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:57 am

million worker march mid-Oct DV it is happening, it will take time but it is happening brother
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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:59 am

Yeah!

Million worker walk fired also. :lol:
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Post by cowboyangel » Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:03 am

philosophy time......life is a balance between positive and negative always, which way the scale tips, depends upon the thought & actions of good people, with good information, following their convictions, same is true for the negative with reverse adjectives. Which side are you on? (meant as rhetorical)
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:05 am

I like both positive and negative.

The good bad and ugly.

I enjoy taking a negative and beating it into a positive because thats the only way it happens.
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Post by samtzu » Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:42 am

Joel wrote:
i actually believe all the previous administrations... Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson and Kennedy are all guilty of not addressing terrorism correctly
Ditto... and that all administrations, all the way back to the J. Adams the First, were riddled with corruption and needed to get trimed back from time to time.

The system is a good system (agreeing with Joel) but the people who scramble and fight to get into the heart of it generally have a shark mentality (eat or be eaten). And the tyranny of human over human can be traced back into pre-history, so I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Only in primitive cultures, based on total equality of the members, can you find justice coming close to prevailing. Sigh...
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:48 am

samtzu wrote:Joel wrote:
i actually believe all the previous administrations... Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson and Kennedy are all guilty of not addressing terrorism correctly
Ditto... and that all administrations, all the way back to the J. Adams the First, were riddled with corruption and needed to get trimed back from time to time.

The system is a good system (agreeing with Joel) but the people who scramble and fight to get into the heart of it generally have a shark mentality (eat or be eaten). And the tyranny of human over human can be traced back into pre-history, so I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Only in primitive cultures, based on total equality of the members, can you find justice coming close to prevailing. Sigh...
Too bad you guys fell for all of this stuff.

Terrorist were created and funded by the CIA. This is a fact told on this board over and over again.
Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson and Kennedy most likely did'nt know what was going on because the Bush Klan have been doing the directing for the past 4 generations.

Once again, the Bush's created Hitler.

You guys should do your research. ( and if anyone says "cites" you are a Lazy Mofo. All the research is on this thread. Yes the entire history.)
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Post by samtzu » Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:58 am

DVD Burner wrote:
( and if anyone says "cites" you are a Lazy Mofo. All the research is on this thread. Yes the entire history.)
Cites?
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by samtzu » Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:58 am

Sorry, couldn't help myself...
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:07 am

samtzu wrote:Sorry, couldn't help myself...
Oh shit dood.

The site has been pulled offline.

I have to go through my personal archive but that will take some time.


I'm at current working on 2 of my servers so who knows how long.


Bummer. I should have known that would'nt stay there forever.
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Post by samtzu » Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:16 am

It's okay... I was just tryin' to tweek ya'...

But I disagree on the conspiracy thing only on this one point: any conspiracy would be better planned that what has been going on for the last seventy years, and after looking at the Presidential IQ chart, it doesn't seem like the Bush gene pool has enough depth for wading, let alone paddling around around in deep shit like this.

Not that it couldn't happen... I just don't see how it could be sustained for three generations like this...

UNLESS... there are some smarter people behind them pulling the strings... Like, say, the Illuminati?
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:20 am

samtzu wrote:It's okay... I was just tryin' to tweek ya'...

But I disagree on the conspiracy thing only on this one point: any conspiracy would be better planned that what has been going on for the last seventy years, and after looking at the Presidential IQ chart, it doesn't seem like the Bush gene pool has enough depth for wading, let alone paddling around around in deep shit like this.

Not that it couldn't happen... I just don't see how it could be sustained for three generations like this...

UNLESS... there are some smarter people behind them pulling the strings... Like, say, the Illuminati?
No consiracy. It's in the nature of the Bush klan to do what they have done.

As far as George W......he is at the bottom of the gene pool. It's from too much inbreeding. That's what happens from generations of family fucking. By the time the British found out with the British bull dog it was too late.
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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:22 am

conspiracy conspiracy..... damn. I gotta install "word" quick.
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Post by DVD Burner » Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:26 am

Just to clear up something,

As soo as everyone agrees that the war was not due to "faulty intelligence" and agrees that it was lieing, will we agree then about conspiracy theories?

I dont belive in them. eithe dumb dumbs do something or they dont.

Lieing does'nt make it a conspiracy.
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Post by cowboyangel » Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:27 am

It's pure folly not to look at our government and discover when where and how it has lent assistance to tyranny, terror and global weaponization. To place ourselves on a pedestal of righteousness is a mean excercise in self-dellusion.. The Nation has an excellent article by James Carroll on a comparison of the Bush war and the first Crusades, to illustrate this point.
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040920&s=carroll


the film "What the Bleep Do We Know" provides a powerful tool to social activists everywhere and delivers a powerful message of hope. I do sincerely urge you all, if you haven't done so, to check it out. The film is taken from the perspective of scientists and stays in the realm of science. Science and metaphysics do indeed have a meeting ground, and that ground is haloed turf.
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Post by Simply Joel » Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:49 pm

DVD Burner wrote:
samtzu wrote:Joel wrote:
i actually believe all the previous administrations... Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson and Kennedy are all guilty of not addressing terrorism correctly
Ditto... and that all administrations, all the way back to the J. Adams the First, were riddled with corruption and needed to get trimed back from time to time.

The system is a good system (agreeing with Joel) but the people who scramble and fight to get into the heart of it generally have a shark mentality (eat or be eaten). And the tyranny of human over human can be traced back into pre-history, so I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Only in primitive cultures, based on total equality of the members, can you find justice coming close to prevailing. Sigh...
Too bad you guys fell for all of this stuff.
DVD Burner wrote: Terrorist were created and funded by the CIA. This is a fact told on this board over and over again.
"facts" stated over and over, yet unsubstantiated by a credible source, in my opinion...
DVD Burner wrote: Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson and Kennedy most likely did'nt know what was going on because the Bush Klan have been doing the directing for the past 4 generations.

Once again, the Bush's created Hitler.
speculation on your part.
DVD Burner wrote:You guys should do your research. ( and if anyone says "cites" you are a Lazy Mofo. All the research is on this thread. Yes the entire history.)
just because you don't accept what i post, or type... doesn't mean i haven't done my research. if what you call your cites (which i don't consider credible) is research... we apparently were taught different research techniques in school.

the whole bush/hitler is like flagellating a one dead equine... in my humble opinion.

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Post by samtzu » Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:15 pm

Remember--- a dead equine in the hand is worth two of the Bushes...
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:17 pm

Germany's neo-Nazis gain in Saxony elections

20.09.2004
1.00pm - By TONY PATERSON in Berlin

Germany's neo-Nazi, National Democratic Party made sweeping gains in key elections in the eastern state of Saxony yesterday in a shock protest vote that reflected the widespread unpopularity of Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's economic reform programme.

In the conservative-controlled state, the, National Democrats (NPD) won seats in a regional state parliament for the first time in 36 years after first exit poll results showed that party had won nine per cent of the vote.

The extreme right Deutsche Volks Union also retained seats in Brandenburg state elections.

However, Mr Schroeder's Social Democrats remained the strongest party in the state despite substantial gains by the reform communist, Party for Democratic Socialism (PDS.)

In Saxony, Mr Schroeder's party suffered humiliating losses and emerged only half a percentage point ahead of the neo-Nazi NPD with 9.5 per cent of the vote.

The state's conservative party lost its absolute majority and was expected to form a coalition with the liberal Free Democrats.

The NPD, which last entered a German state parliament in 1968, campaigned on a "German money for German interests" platform, which included vigorous opposition to EU enlargement, foreign immigration, and government plans to cut benefits for the long-term unemployed.

Both far-right parties and the communist PDS have played a prominent role in nationwide protests against the Schroeder government's Agenda 2010 programme that aims to reform the German economy through cuts to welfare and unemployment benefits.

The far-right gains followed warnings by Chancellor Schroeder and business leaders that they would deter investment in eastern Germany where unemployment is currently at 20 per cent.

"The rise of the far-right will also damage Germany's image abroad," Mr Schroeder said.

The German government attempted to impose a constitutional ban on the NPD last year because of the party's links to violent skinhead organisations that have been responsible for the deaths of more than 100 foreign immigrants since German unification in 1990.

However, judges rejected the move after declaring that the government-backed intelligence services had used agents provocateurs to gather incriminating evidence against the NPD.

Ottto Schily, the German Interior Minister, provoked a row at the weekend after he blamed constitutional court judges for failing to outlaw the party.

He claimed that the far-right would not have made political gains if the ban had been imposed.

NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF GERMANY (NPD)

- The government has likened it to Hitler's embryonic Nazis of the 1920s and tried to ban it, but the legal case collapsed.

- Among voters under 30 in Saxony, the NPD got 17 per cent.

- Founded in 1964, the party, headed by Udo Voigt, has around 5,000 members.

- It scored the far right's biggest general election success with 4.3 per cent nationwide share of the vote in 1969, when it was represented in seven state parliaments.

- Viewed as more radical than other right-wing parties and organises periodic marches, often joined by skinheads.

- Manifesto talks of "multi-cultural excesses" and the need to revise Germany's borders.

- Domestic intelligence says party members seek to lie about the Nazis' responsibility for the outbreak of World War Two and to deny the uniqueness of the Holocaust.

- Currently the only party to hold seats in a state assembly, that of Brandenburg.

- Formed in 1971 under millionaire publisher Gerhard Frey, it became a political party in 1987. It has 11,500 members.

- DVU scored the far right's best result in a state election in Saxony-Anhalt in 1998, winning 12.9 per cent of the vote. It also won assembly seats in western Bremen and Schleswig-Holstein in the early 1990s, although it was thrown out after one term.

- Founded in 1983, with around 8,000 members.

- Won seats in assembly in southwestern Baden-Wuerttemberg, with 10.9 per cent of the vote in 1992, then retained some seats in the 1996 election, although fell under five per cent in 2001. The party also won seats in the Berlin state parliament in 1989.

- Little in evidence outside election time.

- The number of violent acts is three times higher per capita in the east than in the west.

- More than 100 people have been killed in racist violence in Germany since unification in 1990. Most of the attacks are opportunistic -- skinheads picking on foreigners in the street.

- Attacks on property include swastikas daubed on Jewish gravestones and firebombs at asylum hostels.

- In 2003, the domestic intelligence service recorded 759 cases of violent crime "with right-wing political motivation".

- INDEPENDENT and REUTERS
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Post by Ducky » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:23 pm

keep them hurricanes coming!! only a couple months left!!

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Post by Simply Joel » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:02 am

DVD Burner wrote:Germany's neo-Nazis gain in Saxony elections

20.09.2004
1.00pm - By TONY PATERSON in Berlin

Germany's neo-Nazi, National Democratic Party made sweeping gains in key elections in the eastern state of Saxony yesterday in a shock protest vote that reflected the widespread unpopularity of Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's economic reform programme.

In the conservative-controlled state, the, National Democrats (NPD) won seats in a regional state parliament for the first time in 36 years after first exit poll results showed that party had won nine per cent of the vote.

The extreme right Deutsche Volks Union also retained seats in Brandenburg state elections.

However, Mr Schroeder's Social Democrats remained the strongest party in the state despite substantial gains by the reform communist, Party for Democratic Socialism (PDS.)

In Saxony, Mr Schroeder's party suffered humiliating losses and emerged only half a percentage point ahead of the neo-Nazi NPD with 9.5 per cent of the vote.

The state's conservative party lost its absolute majority and was expected to form a coalition with the liberal Free Democrats.

The NPD, which last entered a German state parliament in 1968, campaigned on a "German money for German interests" platform, which included vigorous opposition to EU enlargement, foreign immigration, and government plans to cut benefits for the long-term unemployed.

Both far-right parties and the communist PDS have played a prominent role in nationwide protests against the Schroeder government's Agenda 2010 programme that aims to reform the German economy through cuts to welfare and unemployment benefits.

The far-right gains followed warnings by Chancellor Schroeder and business leaders that they would deter investment in eastern Germany where unemployment is currently at 20 per cent.

"The rise of the far-right will also damage Germany's image abroad," Mr Schroeder said.

The German government attempted to impose a constitutional ban on the NPD last year because of the party's links to violent skinhead organisations that have been responsible for the deaths of more than 100 foreign immigrants since German unification in 1990.

However, judges rejected the move after declaring that the government-backed intelligence services had used agents provocateurs to gather incriminating evidence against the NPD.

Ottto Schily, the German Interior Minister, provoked a row at the weekend after he blamed constitutional court judges for failing to outlaw the party.

He claimed that the far-right would not have made political gains if the ban had been imposed.

NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF GERMANY (NPD)

- The government has likened it to Hitler's embryonic Nazis of the 1920s and tried to ban it, but the legal case collapsed.

- Among voters under 30 in Saxony, the NPD got 17 per cent.

- Founded in 1964, the party, headed by Udo Voigt, has around 5,000 members.

- It scored the far right's biggest general election success with 4.3 per cent nationwide share of the vote in 1969, when it was represented in seven state parliaments.

- Viewed as more radical than other right-wing parties and organises periodic marches, often joined by skinheads.

- Manifesto talks of "multi-cultural excesses" and the need to revise Germany's borders.

- Domestic intelligence says party members seek to lie about the Nazis' responsibility for the outbreak of World War Two and to deny the uniqueness of the Holocaust.

- Currently the only party to hold seats in a state assembly, that of Brandenburg.

- Formed in 1971 under millionaire publisher Gerhard Frey, it became a political party in 1987. It has 11,500 members.

- DVU scored the far right's best result in a state election in Saxony-Anhalt in 1998, winning 12.9 per cent of the vote. It also won assembly seats in western Bremen and Schleswig-Holstein in the early 1990s, although it was thrown out after one term.

- Founded in 1983, with around 8,000 members.

- Won seats in assembly in southwestern Baden-Wuerttemberg, with 10.9 per cent of the vote in 1992, then retained some seats in the 1996 election, although fell under five per cent in 2001. The party also won seats in the Berlin state parliament in 1989.

- Little in evidence outside election time.

- The number of violent acts is three times higher per capita in the east than in the west.

- More than 100 people have been killed in racist violence in Germany since unification in 1990. Most of the attacks are opportunistic -- skinheads picking on foreigners in the street.

- Attacks on property include swastikas daubed on Jewish gravestones and firebombs at asylum hostels.

- In 2003, the domestic intelligence service recorded 759 cases of violent crime "with right-wing political motivation".

- INDEPENDENT and REUTERS
DVD, so would you say the Neo-NAZI's are isolationist? something akin to Pat Buchanan's ilk?

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Post by lurker » Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:02 am

Anarchy is the ultimate in self rule. It is the apex of individualism. And, once attained, it leads back to government, as the strong try to maintain the state in which they are happy...and, in so doing, create the state...

Granted, should a truly anarchic situation come into being, the path by which it is attained will determine what type of person is 'strong' and thereby determine what type of state will grow.

There are anarchists....who live, as best they can, in an anarchic state already, and there are the rabble, who apend modifiers to the idea of anarchy without ever understanding that such modifiers destroy the idea of anarchy. Thus anarcho-socialists. anarcho-syndicalists, and anarcho-capitalists are, respectively socialists, syndicalists, and capitalists....but they are not anarchists.

Why am I going on, one might wonder? DVD, you seem to accept quite a lot as true that is dogmatised. Party lines, talking points. Modifiers. These are elements of control-someone else's control--over you.

There is an old saying, 'Question Authority'. But there is something much more important that must be done as well, question those who seek to become authority more harshly than those in power. Those in power are a known quantity...those who seek it are not.

The media, all of it--mainstream and alternate, establishment and opposition, seeks power. The power to shape your thoughts, your arguements. The power to rule without responsibility.

Don't listen to them without always knowing that.

There is no 'illegal'--or 'legal' war. There is only war. The important thing about war is to make sure that the side that wins will maximise your personal freedom.

That is the question that looms before us. More freedom or less? Which side offers more?
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Post by Simply Joel » Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:34 am

Lurker... you have made some pretty interesting observations.

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Post by DVD Burner » Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:31 pm

lurker,

That was pretty good, but as I've said a million times on this board: Religion and politics is bullshit.
All of them are full of shit and made for suckers.

As far as the media, I dont belive them nor do I defend them. I look at all of them as a great source of entertainment.
Joel wrote:DVD, so would you say the Neo-NAZI's are isolationist? something akin to Pat Buchanan's ilk?
You know something scarey, I've been agreeing withPat Buchanan lately. :shock:
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Post by lurker » Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:22 pm

And yet you quote the media and take what appears to be a very political stance....
"Life is like a box of razor blades. Sharp, shiny, and good for removing unwanted body hair"

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Post by DVD Burner » Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:24 pm

lurker wrote:And yet you quote the media and take what appears to be a very political stance....
Ok please be specific.

You seem to be a nubie here.
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Post by Simply Joel » Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:30 pm

DVD Burner wrote:You know something scarey, I've been agreeing with Pat Buchanan lately. :shock:
yes, that scares me as well.

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Post by DVD Burner » Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:32 pm

:lol:
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Post by Rian Jackson » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:51 pm

Checkpoint behavior

By Amira Hass

Haaretz

September 2, 2004

Israel Defense Forces officers were among the first to understand the moral
danger involved in checkpoints, way before the general public in Israel was
prepared to hear about rude or even abusive behavior on the part of the soldiers.
Those in the field reported that there were instances of so-called checks
that took hours, threats, bullying of women, slaps in the face, confiscation of
books and CDs, gas grenades thrown into waiting cars, slashing tires, breaking
car windows and shooting for purposes of intimidation and deterence. This type
of behavior is not necessary from the point of view of security; on the
contrary, it simply fuels the feelings of vengeance that the Palestinians have.


That is why the officers decided to introduce seminars on how to behave at
the checkpoints. They even praise the work of the women who take part in
"Machsom Watch." But as a result, there are those who delude themselves that, if
there is correct education, it will be possible to make the checkpoints humane.


This is the same type of illusion as that held by those who in the 1970s
believed that the settlements in the territories were indeed set up for security
purposes. Those who delude themselves today like to forget that the checkpoints
are not located on the border of a sovereign state, but rather deep in the
occupied territory of the West Bank. How much military manpower - which would be
able to protect the civilian hinterland much better from the actual border -
is required for these roadblocks? Those who prefer to delude themselves that a
checkpoint can be humane ignore its role in maintaining the settlement
enterprise.


There are checkpoints where the soldiers are particularly polite, for example
at Beit El. That is where the diplomats and the various Palestinian
dignitaries, the ambulance teams and the journalists, pass through in their vehicles.
The delays there are relatively rare. Perhaps it is the sight of the polished
cars and the diplomatic passes that arouses feelings of respect on the part of
the soldiers, unlike the feeling generated by standing opposite a sweating,
unruly and dusty crowd of people.


This checkpoint - through which "regular" Palestinians like the thousands of
residents of the nearby villages cannot pass - is meant to ensure the
wellbeing of the settlers of Beit El, Ofra and Psagot and the outposts of Givat Assaf
and Migron. It is also meant to ensure the ability of the government offices
to continue expanding the settlements to create Jewish territorial contiguity
in the West Bank. That is the task of all the checkpoints deep inside the West
bank.


On the other hand, Qalandiyah is a roadblock designed to anchor, in peoples'
consciousness and on the ground, the annexation to Israel of a large area east
of the Green Line. Stuck between a-Ram, a densely populated Palestinian
suburb and the villages to its west, and the area of Ramallah, it creates two
isolated Bantustans. Other roadblocks of annexation that are located a distance
from the Green Line - and become fixed in consciousness as "a border line" - were
set up, for example, east of the Triangle town of Taibe, south of Qalqilyah
at the the "fruit junction," on the Givat Ze'ev-Modi'in road (the Harbata
roadblock) or at Houssan (to serve Upper Betar).


The soldiers can study appropriate behavior at dozens of seminars, but their
objective will not change: to ensure the regime of excessive rights for the
Jews - basically the sole right of the Jews to move from Tel Aviv and to live in
the West Bank while the Palestinians are not permitted to move and live in
Tel Aviv.


In order to challenge the immoral principles of this reality, the soldiers
have to deal with the conventions, explanations and excuses of Israeli society.


This is a difficult task for 50-year-olds, so why should it be possible for
those who were born 17 years after the occupation of the territories? If the
soldiers were to treat those passing through the roadblocks like equal human
beings, they might be forced to ask questions about their own service.


In a society where to be "nuts about the army" is a positive phrase, only a
handful dare to translate the moral questions into refusal that entails
imprisonment. Numerous others avoid service in less publicized ways. The majority,
who continue to serve at the raodblocks, young and old, can not help but
internalize the psychology of superiority of the regime of excessive rights. In other
words, they consider the thousands of Palestinians who pass by as being
entitled to less than the Jews, that is to say, as being inferior - and therefore
the address for all types of degradation.
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Post by DVD Burner » Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:28 pm

Hum!!!

I'm wonering. Does anyone know what mussel on the end of this riffle/gun is?

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Is it American issue?
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samtzu
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Post by samtzu » Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:11 pm

DVD Burner wrote:
Hum!!!

I'm wonering. Does anyone know what mussel on the end of this riffle/gun is?

Is it American issue?
It appears to be the flash surpressor for an M-16-- Standard American issue. Of course, I used to carry an AK-47... but the didn't make me a VC, it just gave me a weapon that wouldn't jam at the wrong time... well, until they took it away from me...

This could just be a 'captured' weapon.

Read anything you like into it... we all do.
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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