Are the newcomers/virgins/burgins/birgins wimpier this year?

[lemur]

maybe it is just my noticing it for the first time.. maybe the ticket situation this year has brought a lot of people to the online communities that normally would have stayed away...

but it seems to me that many newcomers/virgins/burgins/birgins are some sort of extra wimpy/delicate/cutesy/"something" this year....well i dunno if the wimpy/delicate/cutesy thing is the right word..

but ..something feels a bit off... it feels like there is an abnormal amount of people who i feel like may be in for a shock out there in the dust.. you know, the ones who are looking for a disney world life changing once in a lifetime event.. only to find out that its hot, they have the shits and the dust storms destroyed their camp..

it's like some dont "get it" ...whether it be the "snark" or the whole "yeah really, 70mph winds" thing.... of course, they havnt been so its easy to not get it.. but i dont feel that ive seen it so much in the past

and then theres this whole "i will let fate do as it may! its out of my control" thing i see from some folks

what is it ? did burning man become wimpier ? is it attracting more people who leave during a duststorm on tuesday? am i the only one seeing this? maybe i am just seeing more people who always came to the event but now decided to show up in the online communities for whatever reason this year.....they have died off now ..but the ticket threads really were a big bastion of this type of feeling im getting

maybe in some way this is related to the stuff that some person wrote in this burning man blog post: http://blog.burningman.com/2011/11/cult ... ve-energy/ 'is there too much positive energy at burning man?'

this whole 'dont rain on the parade!!' 'we're having fun here!! dont ruin it with realism!' stuff.. seems really pervasive this year.... all this positive energy shit ..i think its making me cranky.

what the fuck?!

wheres the fkoism and the fuck yer days and the yer doin it wrongs and the harsh reality of shit in the 'dont rain on the parade' mindset?...maybe im crazy.. maybe its only me.. .

oh and uhh.. fuck yer day.. yer doin it wrong, asshole

[Simon of the Playa]

it's real.

it's palpable.

what used to be Outlier became early adopter and now Walmart is selling Top-siders and Madras....


well, i for one


AM GOING TO RIP THEIR HEADS OFF AND SHIT DOWN THEIR THROATS.


because i love them.

welcome to fucking Burning Man, Suckers.

[catinthefunnyhat]

I'm too new in this community to know how it was in previous years.

A couple of things, though:

(1) I think the sample size here is pretty small. A few vocal people (i.e. frequent posters, or people who consistently and intensely express the attitudes you're talking about) might be giving the impression that they're a horde.

(2) You might -- might! -- be conflating optimism/sentimentality with a lack of preparation and/or fortitude. I don't think they're necessarily correlates. You know how people who complain about the snark here are always being reminded that this is the internet? Well, it's possible that the same caveat could apply to those who are bothered the Kumbaya here.

Don't judge people for "leaving during a duststorm on Tuesday" when their actual offense was being too sissy or prissy for your taste in an internet forum. Judge them for leaving during a duststorm on Tuesday when (and if!) they leave during a duststorm on Tuesday.

[Roberto Dobbisano]

ARRRRRRGH....

calm compassionate reason and practical logic......compromise and moderation.....



sometimes i just wanna bitch slap the canadian out of you...

[catinthefunnyhat]

sometimes i just wanna bitch slap the canadian out of you...

Many years ago, some random old lady on the approached me on the street and told me that if she put a nail in my forehead, I'd bleed maple syrup*. If you could bitch-slap some maple syrup out of me, we'd be rich!

*Actually, first she told me that her breasts were engorged with milk and asked me to suck them. When I declined, she asked me if I thought she needed to be bled. I asked her how one would know, and then she said the bit about the maple syrup. At that, I took my leave of her.

[trilobyte]

The trend isn't new, you're just starting to notice it now. It's a combination of factors. First, the heyday of the internet message board was more than a decade ago - as we get further and further away from those days, there are fewer and fewer people on the internet that are familiar with the protocols and behaviors on a message board. As a result, they're understandably surprised and shocked when some complete stranger whom they haven't caused any harm to jumps down their throat.

Then there's the issue of the seasoned veterans often becoming bigger jerks, as well as encouraging others to be jerks in an effort to fit in. Good natured teasing/ribbing is one thing, but there's an awful lot that gets pretty mean. Some people do alright while others get increasingly worse, probably because they're losing patience with new people who don't know what they're doing. That's kind of understandable, after answering the same basic questions thousands of times even the nicest of people can get short-tempered.

Part of the reason we created the Overview section of the board was to help new folks get up to speed and fill in the blanks on the ways of message boards or how things work on eplaya. Hopefully as they poke around and explore the site they discover it on their own, but feel free to point people to that section or a particular post if you think it'll help them. If you can think of something that ought to be in there that isn't there, PM one of the mods to bring it up (and if you're interested in writing an article, even better). Beyond that, take deep breaths and have patience.

[Simon of the Playa]

sometimes i just wanna bitch slap the canadian out of you...

Many years ago, some random old lady on the approached me on the street and told me that if she put a nail in my forehead, I'd bleed maple syrup*.

now THATS FUNNY


OMG....


sniff.....


you just made a crotchety old american cry a tear of joy....

[Roberto Dobbisano]

Then there's the issue of the seasoned veterans often becoming bigger jerks, as well as encouraging others to be jerks in an effort to fit in. Good natured teasing/ribbing is one thing, but there's an awful lot that gets pretty mean.

guilty as charged, however, i refuse to pussyfoot here, just as i refuse to do so elsewhere.


if someone does not understand my obtuse twisted and shape-shifting sense of humor they can go fuck themselves.

and plonk me.

for the rest of you, i'm just getting warmed up....

Hellzapoppin...

[AntiM]

sometimes i just wanna bitch slap the canadian out of you...

Many years ago, some random old lady on the approached me on the street and told me that if she put a nail in my forehead, I'd bleed maple syrup*.

now THATS FUNNY


OMG....


sniff.....


you just made a crotchety old american cry a tear of joy....

But does she keep bacon in her underpants?

[lemur]

oh yeah.. and uhh..... this shocking problem goes beyond eplaya... well beyond... so enough with the eplayacentric thinking folks!!!

THIS IS GROWING.

beyond the message boards of eplaya!!!! into the larger burning man community!!! BEYOND THE INTERNET.


YEP.. beyond places where some guy was 'snarking' you!

for real.

[wh..sh]

oh yeah.. and uhh..... this shocking problem goes beyond eplaya...

Based on my experience, this is a cultural thing and it certainly goes beyond eplaya and playa.
Society here in the US is generally a friendly, "be nice to each other" kind of a society.
Sadly, people go from "lets be nice to each other" to "I am entitled to it" attitude.
People get offended if you don't say "please" and "thanks". Over all, its a sensitive society. So, I am not surprised.

[Simon of the Playa]

LOS ANGELES IS THE PROBLEM!!!



seriously.

[FeetOfClay]

(2) You might -- might! -- be conflating optimism/sentimentality with a lack of preparation and/or fortitude. I don't think they're necessarily correlates. [....] Don't judge people for "leaving during a duststorm on Tuesday" when their actual offense was being too sissy or prissy for your taste in an internet forum. Judge them for leaving during a duststorm on Tuesday when (and if!) they leave during a duststorm on Tuesday.

As a burgin who would probably be considered "wimpy" based on the attributes described in this thread, I like that Cat pointed out the fact that this "wimpy-ness" does not mean that we optimistic burgins cannot handle our shit out on the Playa. Admittedly, I have not been out there yet, so only time will tell for sure, but I can assure all of you that I am putting HOURS each day into gathering provisions, preparing lists, and doing constant research on how to stay alive and hydrated out there, how to participate, the 10 principles, etc etc.

I choose to be optimistic about most things in my life. I also choose to abstain from calling other people names, or being overly critical of others, in all situations (whether online or face-to-face). Of all the reasons one could have for being not-liked, I would be proud and honored to be hated for being "nice" "wimpy" "optimistic"...that is no problem at all. Hate away

I recognize, and respect, the years of experience many of you have in surviving the desert, participating, volunteering, etc. I can, and do, learn from all of you. But please do not think I will be some dehydrated sparkly pony out there. I am putting up lots of my time and money (both scarce commodities in my life right now) to ensure that I am fully prepared and radically self-reliant.

I will certainly be bringing more water, dried foods, and gifts than "costumes".

[trilobyte]

The newbies/oldbies issue does go beyond eplaya - it can be found on most online forums. Anything with an active community that's been around for a little while, there's some animosity towards the new people who seem to not know the first thing about how to do stuff, or how to take a joke, etc.

[Simon of the Playa]

Ready...Serious Face.


you make the burn what it is.....don't let anyone tell you how to do it, don't let anyone fuck with your burn unless you want them to, myself especially included.

don't worry so much about being burny, just be yourself, that is as burny as it gets....

read that a few times, it's profound, even if i do say so myself.

be prepared......to meet wonderful people, and maybe a few you dont think are so wonderful, but either way, it's ok.

i represent only one small aspect of burning man, and yes, there are plenty of Fucko's out there...we're not REALLY all that bad...

there are clowns, and ravers, ponies and mules, cats and dogs, ninjas and pirates, monkeys and robots all kinds of freaks and normals straights and gays and in betweens, black skin yellow skin pink and blue.

all of us together make the city what it is, so stop second guessing yourself, say what you want when you want to, don't be afraid, i may bark but my teeth have all fallen out, and you'll find that sometimes people say "mean" things in order to help those people avoid mistakes they have already made.

you've come to the right place, there is more info on the ole eplaya about burningman (and other crap too) than most news sources, libraries or any other single reference i can think of, so, put on your waders, dig thru the horseshit, and i promise, you will find the nuggets you are looking for.

this goes for everyone out there.

You Love It, or you would'nt be here, now would ya....


ok....back to my Jerky Self, their gonna dock my pay if i keep this up for too long....

[wh..sh]

Damn you Simon, you are tempting me to click on that small facebook, irreversible, regrettable icon.

[lemur]

please do not think I will be some dehydrated sparkly pony out there. I am putting up lots of my time and money (both scarce commodities in my life right now) to ensure that I am fully prepared and radically self-reliant.

i think you might be missing something.. if you didnt already, take a read of the blog post mentioned above

there might have been made mention of folks leaving on tuesday but im not really thinking 'OMG THESE NOOBS ARE DOOMED!!!' ..this isnt about people being underprepared and not memorizing the survival guide.

theres plenty of people who were prepared physically and camp-wise who totally sucked otherwise at the burn..

..whether they be slackerfucks who couldnt pull themselves away from the party and "[THEIR] BURN" long enough to get the unpleasant shit done (like cleaning up after themselves).. people who drank enough water and had enough rebar but totally couldnt deal with the personalities, the noise and other people not focusing on their wants...who get pissy when nobody gives a crap...... or people who felt like it was all about them, ..your trash can was theirs to use, your stuff was theirs to use, and it was totally negative of you to say NO!!!


i think some people might see this as a THE UNPREPARED NOOBS ARE DOOMED thread... it aint... i think wh..sh probably got the closest to it when they spoke of it as a cultural thing.

[MyDearFriend]

don't worry so much about being burny, just be yourself, that is as burny as it gets....

I love you, Simon.

[theCryptofishist]

Ah, but did you love him when you were a trembling burgin flower, just daring to bud?

[JStep]

You're right, it's going to suck, stay away!






Simon nailed it, as usual. Last year this time I was a burgin, doing what they do, reading, planning, figuring it all out, asking dumb questions. Now I'm the regional contact for my state, participating in the CORE project, helping other burgins figure this shit out... This isn't a brag (half the people here have been to TTITD more times and have more experience and connections than I do), just a reminder that any of us could be the next regional contact, mega art builder, theme camp host, Black Rock Ranger, etc. We all had a first year, and those of us who are blessed with the opportunity to make a slightly larger contribution than just attending started out not knowing the first thing about what it was going to take to do this right and add to the magic.

I have a theory that this could possibly be an amazing tipping point for the event. We're hearing that it's going to be more duney than '08 this year. That means more dust storms and whiteout potential... And with the potential influx of a LOT of first timers (more than the 50% estimated first timers any given year) I think this year might be a real tipping point. If we have a whole lot of noobs, and a bunch of them are unprepared or think BM is some kind of hippy music and art festival... I am thinking we could see a lot of people come out the other side in one of two groups: The one's who really got it, had their shit together and think it's the best damn thing they ever did, and a larger group who didn't have their shit together and will never go back and tell all their friends how much it sucks. I think if this happens, we could be clearing the way for an even more amazing 2013 burn, with fewer tourists, sparkleponies and clueless raver types and a lot more die hard DIY creative survivalists who will bring a lot of new blood and creativity to the mix...

Or maybe not, your mileage may vary, not valid with other offers, terms and conditions may apply...

[trilobyte]

Was 2008 even a bad year?

[Bob]

Are the newcomers/virgins/burgins/birgins wimpier this year?

No.

[AntiM]

Was 2008 even a bad year?

That's the year a guy put a cigarette out on Larry's forehead when asked not to smoke next to the fuel cart. We had to pull it close to the perimeter because they cancelled the fire conclave performances. So yeah, but my measurement, that was a "bad" year. First time I saw people pack up and leave Hushville early in the week. And I got a little stir crazy hunkering down in the long whiteouts with extraneous friends of friends sheltering in our shade... it isn't that big, and it gets damn small as time and dust accumulate.

[maryanimal]

it's real.

it's palpable.

what used to be Outlier became early adopter and now Walmart is selling Top-siders and Madras....


well, i for one


AM GOING TO RIP THEIR HEADS OFF AND SHIT DOWN THEIR THROATS.


because i love them.

welcome to fucking Burning Man, Suckers.

*swoon*

[Foxfur]

(2) You might -- might! -- be conflating optimism/sentimentality with a lack of preparation and/or fortitude. I don't think they're necessarily correlates. [....] Don't judge people for "leaving during a duststorm on Tuesday" when their actual offense was being too sissy or prissy for your taste in an internet forum. Judge them for leaving during a duststorm on Tuesday when (and if!) they leave during a duststorm on Tuesday.

As a burgin who would probably be considered "wimpy" based on the attributes described in this thread, I like that Cat pointed out the fact that this "wimpy-ness" does not mean that we optimistic burgins cannot handle our shit out on the Playa. Admittedly, I have not been out there yet, so only time will tell for sure, but I can assure all of you that I am putting HOURS each day into gathering provisions, preparing lists, and doing constant research on how to stay alive and hydrated out there, how to participate, the 10 principles, etc etc.

I choose to be optimistic about most things in my life. I also choose to abstain from calling other people names, or being overly critical of others, in all situations (whether online or face-to-face). Of all the reasons one could have for being not-liked, I would be proud and honored to be hated for being "nice" "wimpy" "optimistic"...that is no problem at all. Hate away

I recognize, and respect, the years of experience many of you have in surviving the desert, participating, volunteering, etc. I can, and do, learn from all of you. But please do not think I will be some dehydrated sparkly pony out there. I am putting up lots of my time and money (both scarce commodities in my life right now) to ensure that I am fully prepared and radically self-reliant.

I will certainly be bringing more water, dried foods, and gifts than "costumes".

That is the secret. I predict that you're gonna do just fine.

Last year I did the same and was all the better for it. There's a huge difference between walking into something all starry eyed with a sense of wonder that's really naive cluelessness. These people are shocked, SHOCKED, that shit goes awry when they assumed that the organizers would never let that kind of thing go down...

Having been sent to deserts involuntarily (but very willingly) I was pretty pre-prepared. That said, the prep, studying the suggested materials, soliciting and accepting the advice offered, and learning from others mistakes made all the difference. Proper preparation precludes the potential of becoming a burden on others.

Welcome to the most hellish fucking joyful adventure of your life!
Come to the meet n greet (Thursday night @ The Barbie Death Camp) and complete your playa experience. Don't believe the hype about the CORE burns that night. The MnG is WAAAY better and there's no admission fee whatsoever. Except a shared dish or treat if you can bring one...

[stinkyfoot]

As a burgin who would probably be considered "wimpy" based on the attributes described in this thread, I like that Cat pointed out the fact that this "wimpy-ness" does not mean that we optimistic burgins cannot handle our shit out on the Playa.

Ah yes, an overly positive attitude combined with physical fortitude just makes you one of those people that others get a little annoyed at for existing. 'God damn you and your muscles and your appropriate desert gear and your ever-loving sunny disposition.' Nothing to worry about, though.

[Ugly Dougly]

Just an average picture of one of these wimpy newbs:

[catinthefunnyhat]

Just an average picture of one of these wimpy newbs:

I could take him.

If he came along willingly, I mean.

[TomServo]

I think it's a non-issue... Laziness is the real issue. And that only applies to a small group, most of whom I have NOT seen on eplaya....and NOT limited to burgins...you know?....that other thread!?

[theCryptofishist]

Let me blame whomever I choose! I have a right to scapegoat!