Burning man is dead

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:22 am

Exactly. Some would sell them to third parties that way ... but it would be very simple to tell where they originated since they are basically serial numbered. Like I said, it isnt exactly right, but it is headed in the right direction. I think there needs to be a way to foster community involvement and the regional/local thing is a way to do that. The exact mechanics ... I dunno.

poodle · Post by **poodle** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:01 am

Forget your rules. Your idea about what BM should be is only your idea. Not mine, not the yahoo's you ridicule. You have no idea what any person might contribute or when. You have no idea what they might take away. There is a place for everyone on the playa. BM is a virus and it infects everyone on the playa. It's my hope that the infection will spread across the land when we all go back to where we came from.

You want to make a difference? Take care of your shit. Live the way you would have everyone else live. Lead by example.

Think there are too many people at the burning of the Man? Don't go out Saturday night. Skip the burn.

This event will run its course. It will not last forever. All things come to an end. What will you make of the ashes?

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:21 am

Here is what is really bothering me. This year there were around 35, 000 people. Last year it was around 31,000. This year I hear that 50% were first-timers. That means that a good number of last year's first timers didn't come back this year. It also means that a large percentage (as in MOST) of experianced burners didn't either.

SOMETHING should change.

chineseobelisk · Post by **chineseobelisk** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:35 am

I wouldn't trust e-bay. They would probably arrive scratched, dented and/or with the integral flux capacitor malfunctioning thus rendering them non redeemable.

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:15 am

I'm in the don't limit the inclusion change Burning Man by the kind of burner you are camp. Poodle is right, you can't say what someone else might contribute or what they might take away from there experience so let them all come.

This was my first year and I told myself it was ok to spend this year just becoming familiar with things and not doing much. This was a mistake I should have made more of an effort to volunteer, I think it would have made for an even better burn. Even so around Thursday I found myself becoming disturbed at the people who seemed to be tourists showing up... after a little consideration I had to admit there wasn't a lot of difference between them and myself, other than I'd been a part of the community 4 days longer.

I really didn't have any problems with yahoos because I didn't frequent the bars or dance clubs much. As for the lines of people wanting something like ice-cream cones or what ever, the problem could be salved by more people giving them away. And that’s kind of my point here, If more of us made more art, helped others make there's, create an art car, gave away coffee in the morning, were more concerned about our fellow burners experience we could change the negative things.

The reputation of an anything goes party would eventually be replaced by one about the community and the art and fewer undesirable would show up. Exclusionary rules would kill Burning Man by turning it into an ever dwindling club of hardcores till no one was left. That's what happened to the Shakers.

Gees this turning into a sermon, might as wall take it over the top..........

So you say to me, "Zulegoona, but that a lot of work. Couldn't we just make some more rules to keep the evil yahoos out of the gates of paradise?

And I say to you, "Fellow Burners, is there one among us that hasn't felt the pain of exclusion? Were any of us made better people because we couldn't be a part of something good? Does anyone learn not to be an asshole, and that others are to be respected by not allowing them into the environment were these values along with the values of creativity and cooperation are held in high regard."

No,.. No people benefit, The community of Burning Man benefits, and the greater world benefits from inclusion of all. I'm not saying it's the easy way. The easy way would be to party with your camp friends in your backyard and burn some art in the barbeque. No it's going to be hard. But isn't worth the effort we put into it.

Brothers and sisters can I here a A-burningMan .................

Mowgli_Khan · Post by **Mowgli_Khan** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:46 am

The best thing about BRC is that you do what you fucking want. Quit your bitching!!!!!!!!! Dont like tourists? Snatch em up and blow their fucking minds. Dont like laser pointers or standers at the burns? Then yell at each other and destroy all this false peice and reverence that peeps try to claim.
The temple burn is not a sacred movement. Its a slap in the face for all those who think there should be any rhyme or reason to what we do or why we create. Fucking chaotic harmony at its best. I personally think we should just blow the fucking man up with dynamite next year. Or maybe not. If the burning man isnt dead, lets kill the whole fucking thing and rebuild it from the fucking ashes. Fuckin whiners!!!

DavidR. · Post by **DavidR.** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:21 pm

The ticket scalping could be solved by having all of the tickets be Will Call. Yes it would be a HELL of a will call system and it would have to be big, but the have lots of space out there. You would have to have the credit card you used to buy the tix and a picture ID. There would still be some fraud, but would YOU give you Visa over to some guy for a week? The lines would be long, but they would pass, you would get in eventually and start to enjoy the week.

As far a growth goes. There is a practical limit to the amount of people that are willing to go out into a harsh environment for a week and be (mostly) self-reliant. The event will reach that practical limit at some point. There are just not an unlimited amount of people that are willing to do this. Out of my entire close social circle of about 30 people, I am the only one who goes to the burn even thought ALL of them come to my annual post-burn slide show/dinner and we have a really good time.

I would say that the major reason that first timers don't come back is not the quality of the community, but rather the shot-to-the-head of the environment out there.

I have no problem with the event after 5 years of going. It will evolve and change until it finally disappears. Burning Man will not last forever. During the time that it is here, we should all make every effort to participate while we are there, spread the good feelings and messages as far and wide as possible when we are not, and do all that we can to educate people before they get to the playa about the history, mission, and aspirations that are Burning Man.

I am already looking forward to next year. every year has been better than the last for me and I have no reason to believe that 2005 will be better yet.

d6 · Post by d6 » Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:53 am

"MICKEY MOUSE IS DEAD, GOT KICKED IN THE HEAD, BECAUSE HE TOOK HIMSELF TO SERIOUSLY............."

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:21 pm

JezebelinHell wrote:How much do you think those vouchers would go for on ebay?

the BMllc could contact Ebay to prevent sales. Also, the voucher sounds like it would be traceable - those who abuse the system could get excluded the next year...etc.

What about a "contract" you have to sign to buy the ticket? Something like "I will clean up, not put stuff in toilets, etc, etc" - maybe not legally enforceable, but it might wake some people up who otherwise are asleep.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:49 pm

I thought as I looked at the title of this thread .... you know, he better be, becuse I am not sure I could stand to see him burned alive.

jellibee · Post by **jellibee** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:33 pm

Nope not dead, in fact permitted for '05 already.

amazon · Post by **amazon** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:22 am

<I>You want to make a difference? Take care of your shit. Live the way you would have everyone else live. Lead by example.

Think there are too many people at the burning of the Man? Don't go out Saturday night. Skip the burn.

This event will run its course. It will not last forever. All things come to an end. What will you make of the ashes?</I>

Thank you for your wise words indeed.
xox
Amazon

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:40 am

My favorite counter culture event changed to a frat gawkers event. So I moved on to Burning Man. Just hoping that BM is still the event for me for a few more years. Don't need guns and wild shit. Just the creations that people come up with to wear, build or ride in. People are the key that make the event. Quityourbitchen, have a costume for each 24, create new art, build MVs to gawk at and get off your collective asses and party

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:18 am

Those of you who have such great ideas about how to engineer people or things you don't like or understand out of the event are the first people I'd send elsewhere. If (ugh) radical self-whatever means anything, it means being responsible for yourself, your own experience, and those you can directly affect. It was a word-of-mouth project to begin with, after all.

Alternatively, we could limit ticket sales to newcomers only, and avoid all the it was better last year whining.

sparkletarte · Post by **sparkletarte** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:03 pm

...long live burning man.

thinkcooper · Post by **thinkcooper** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:08 pm

I was expecting this year's event to be a letdown in comparison to my burns in the past, my most recent prior to '04 was '00, my first was '96 - that expectation was goofily formed mostly from posts I read here. That'll teach me.

My spin on '04? Awesome. Far from dead. Even though I had to leave some toys at home, they weren't missed. I'm in love with burningman all over again.

Bitterman · Post by **Bitterman** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:55 pm

BURNING MAN IS DEAD!!!!!!!
LONG LIVE THE MAN!!!!!!!

Burning man is dead

Huh? What?

poodle wrote

Burning man is dead...