Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
- GenghisComm
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:27 pm
- Location: Boulder, CO
- Contact:
Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
Cronyism is partiality to long-standing friends and is contrary in practice and principle to meritocracy. The current Burning Man culture is a prime example; if you have insider connections and know the “right” people, then you’ve already cronied a ticket. In today’s Burning Man, you can enjoy “Radical Inclusion” (the first principle of BM) only if you’re popular or very very lucky. Another principle of Burning Man is gifting, whereby the value of the gift is unconditional and there is no expectation of an exchange for something of equal value. While this may appear to be an admirable principle, it is the root of corruption.
The core principle of Capitalism, on the other hand, is represented by a transaction in which both parties benefit. The exchange is not for something of equal value, but for something of greater value, i.e., each party receives something of greater value for themselves in exchange for giving something of lesser value.
So why is the Burning Man community so vehemently against commodification, and, specifically, scalping? Because today’s Burning Man community has degenerated into an elitist social clique, an exclusive country club for self-righteous popular brats who resent the idea that unpopular kids with enough money might buy their way into their privileged social circle. Ewww! Gag me with a spoon!!!
The fact that the Burning Man community resents scalping shows it’s hypocrisy with regard to its first principle, radical inclusion. The success of the Burning Man event has made it a commodity. Therefore, people who lack the social capital to crony a ticket (but have sufficient financial capital) should not be discouraged from experiencing the event.
Unfortunately, success has ruined the magic of the Burning Man event while its organizers laugh all the way to the bank. Like the dirty Wall Street bankers, has the Burning Man community become elitist insiders who subvert Capitalism for their own benefit?
The core principle of Capitalism, on the other hand, is represented by a transaction in which both parties benefit. The exchange is not for something of equal value, but for something of greater value, i.e., each party receives something of greater value for themselves in exchange for giving something of lesser value.
So why is the Burning Man community so vehemently against commodification, and, specifically, scalping? Because today’s Burning Man community has degenerated into an elitist social clique, an exclusive country club for self-righteous popular brats who resent the idea that unpopular kids with enough money might buy their way into their privileged social circle. Ewww! Gag me with a spoon!!!
The fact that the Burning Man community resents scalping shows it’s hypocrisy with regard to its first principle, radical inclusion. The success of the Burning Man event has made it a commodity. Therefore, people who lack the social capital to crony a ticket (but have sufficient financial capital) should not be discouraged from experiencing the event.
Unfortunately, success has ruined the magic of the Burning Man event while its organizers laugh all the way to the bank. Like the dirty Wall Street bankers, has the Burning Man community become elitist insiders who subvert Capitalism for their own benefit?
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
Is that a qualifier to engage in discourse? Or are you proving his point for him?lemur wrote:did you get a ticket ?
- Lonesomebri
- Posts: 2890
- Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:54 pm
- Burning Since: 2024
- Camp Name: CAMP THREAT
- Location: NorCal
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
Sure, Capitalism would fix this……. But, you know of course that cronyism is what successful capitalism uses? They aren't mutually exclusive. Everything is elitist, if you aren’t in on it, you are out. So is the nature of life. Guys who are better looking than me get more chicks, boo hoo. If I don't know when the deadlines for ticket purchase are, I'm out. But to miss that capitalism is elitist,…..that takes some convoluting. And the core principle of capitalism is that both parties gain? Is that the core principle of the Capitalist? Do they know this? Hell, for less than $5 you can get a happy meal, celebrate commodities, really, all it takes is the money; you don’t need to know anyone. Everyone wins. (Or some folks get heart disease while others get rich). Sure, with pure capitalism I could just whore out my girlfriend and buy a ticket from some scalper on ebay, no problem. All those constraints put on pure capitalism getting in my way. Of course the tickets flow to those in the know, but pure capitalism would not suddenly make the tickets go to the deserving. The ticket sales were a mess; canceled sales, directed tickets, scalpers, the sell-out, etc. Life is messy, except for that clean running pure capitalism I hear so much about. I don’t have a ticket but if I get one I will camp with my cronies.
The response to elitism and cronyism isn’t to sell-out more.
The response to elitism and cronyism isn’t to sell-out more.
Camp THREAT founder. BRCCP core disgruntled member. Burner. Setting fires since 1974. https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id ... tid=ZbWKwL
"If this is the best of all possible worlds, what are the others?"
- Voltaire
"If this is the best of all possible worlds, what are the others?"
- Voltaire
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
Real capitalism is different than the bastardized modern version you're describing. But then ideals are never truly perfect in real life, which is why we can't really apply Adam Smith's thoughts to OP's question. True capitalism is like true communism: totally incompatible with human nature.Lonesomebri wrote:Sure, Capitalism would fix this……. But, you know of course that cronyism is what successful capitalism uses? They aren't mutually exclusive......But to miss that capitalism is elitist,…..that takes some convoluting. And the core principle of capitalism is that both parties gain? Is that the core principle of the Capitalist? Do they know this?
- theCryptofishist
- Posts: 40312
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
- Burning Since: 2017
- Location: In Exile
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
"Cronyism" also called "nepotism" has been a feature of economic, and governmental, systems for a long, long time. In fact, the sort of "anglo-saxon" virtues as exemplafied by the States, the UK (and associated commonwealths like Australia, Canada), and (West) Germany, almost certainly exist against the tide of experience of most humans since the neolithic revolution. There is a natural tendency (cue evolutionary psychiatry, if you like, here) to favor one's own bloodline. (It is not universal with humans, just saying.)
At any rate, I do wonder at the interjection of current claims in the media into this discussion. What "weight" does this have in the mind of the op and how does it effect the rest of us.
At any rate, I do wonder at the interjection of current claims in the media into this discussion. What "weight" does this have in the mind of the op and how does it effect the rest of us.
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
- BBadger
- Posts: 6073
- Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
- Burning Since: 2010
- Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
Grade: C-
- Claims of cronyism/nepotism are not supported by evidence, either in the post, or on the ground. If referring to directed distribution, that was mostly based on camp merit with respect to past MOOP records (mostly), past playa interactivity, volunteering, involvement, etc.. How such camps distributed tickets was another matter, but the purpose was to fill in the ranks of those specific camps who showed past community benefit. Other people receiving tickets have volunteered many times in the past, or are involved with projects. What was that about "meritocracies" again?
- Author does not understand concepts of value beyond material value, and therefore assumes that gifting is merely about material exchange. LIFE FAIL.
This is more evidence that whole ticket sell-out thing did us another favor.
- Claims of cronyism/nepotism are not supported by evidence, either in the post, or on the ground. If referring to directed distribution, that was mostly based on camp merit with respect to past MOOP records (mostly), past playa interactivity, volunteering, involvement, etc.. How such camps distributed tickets was another matter, but the purpose was to fill in the ranks of those specific camps who showed past community benefit. Other people receiving tickets have volunteered many times in the past, or are involved with projects. What was that about "meritocracies" again?
- Author does not understand concepts of value beyond material value, and therefore assumes that gifting is merely about material exchange. LIFE FAIL.
This is more evidence that whole ticket sell-out thing did us another favor.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens
Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.
Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
For an event allegedly suffering from cronyism, there sure are a @#$%-ton of virgins. (Burning Blog estimates 40%).
*** The Burning Man Survival Guide ***
"I must've lost it when I was twerking at the trash fence." -- BBadger
"Snark away, ePlaya, you magnificent bastards." -- McStrangle
"I must've lost it when I was twerking at the trash fence." -- BBadger
"Snark away, ePlaya, you magnificent bastards." -- McStrangle
- Lonesomebri
- Posts: 2890
- Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:54 pm
- Burning Since: 2024
- Camp Name: CAMP THREAT
- Location: NorCal
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
Gifting as material exchange-
When I was handed my first ice cold drink by some stranger on the playa, it was more than a commodity, it was love.
I'll never have the cash to compensate for just the smiles I've gotten.
When I was handed my first ice cold drink by some stranger on the playa, it was more than a commodity, it was love.
I'll never have the cash to compensate for just the smiles I've gotten.
- theCryptofishist
- Posts: 40312
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
- Burning Since: 2017
- Location: In Exile
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
Both of you are doing it wrong! Especially that cute little satanic sock...No, actually, the satanic sock is so darned cute, that anything it does is automatically right...
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
- BBadger
- Posts: 6073
- Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
- Burning Since: 2010
- Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
They're just the entourage of the kakistocracy that lords over Burning Man.Savannah wrote:For an event allegedly suffering from cronyism, there sure are a @#$%-ton of virgins. (Burning Blog estimates 40%).
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens
Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.
Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
Why have I no minion, then?BBadger wrote:They're just the entourage of the kakistocracy that lords over Burning Man.Savannah wrote:For an event allegedly suffering from cronyism, there sure are a @#$%-ton of virgins. (Burning Blog estimates 40%).
*** The Burning Man Survival Guide ***
"I must've lost it when I was twerking at the trash fence." -- BBadger
"Snark away, ePlaya, you magnificent bastards." -- McStrangle
"I must've lost it when I was twerking at the trash fence." -- BBadger
"Snark away, ePlaya, you magnificent bastards." -- McStrangle
- ygmir
- Posts: 30403
- Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
- Burning Since: 2007
- Camp Name: qqqq
- Location: nevada county
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
Savannah wrote:Why have I no minion, then?BBadger wrote:They're just the entourage of the kakistocracy that lords over Burning Man.Savannah wrote:For an event allegedly suffering from cronyism, there sure are a @#$%-ton of virgins. (Burning Blog estimates 40%).

YGMIR
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
Your non-virginal status is a well-known and oft-lamented fact of playa lore.
(That said, you can pick up your minion badge & orientation materials after 16:00 on 2012-08-24).
(That said, you can pick up your minion badge & orientation materials after 16:00 on 2012-08-24).
- Lonesomebri
- Posts: 2890
- Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:54 pm
- Burning Since: 2024
- Camp Name: CAMP THREAT
- Location: NorCal
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
I really would make a great running dog lackey, comrades. My loyalty can be bought with a snowcone.
- Simon of the Playa
- Posts: 22823
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
- Burning Since: 1996
- Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins
- Location: BRC, Nevada.
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
GenghisComm wrote:Cronyism is partiality to long-standing friends and is contrary in practice and principle to meritocracy. The current Burning Man culture is a prime example; if you have insider connections and know the “right” people, then you’ve already cronied a ticket. In today’s Burning Man, you can enjoy “Radical Inclusion” (the first principle of BM) only if you’re popular or very very lucky. Another principle of Burning Man is gifting, whereby the value of the gift is unconditional and there is no expectation of an exchange for something of equal value. While this may appear to be an admirable principle, it is the root of corruption.
The core principle of Capitalism, on the other hand, is represented by a transaction in which both parties benefit. The exchange is not for something of equal value, but for something of greater value, i.e., each party receives something of greater value for themselves in exchange for giving something of lesser value.
So why is the Burning Man community so vehemently against commodification, and, specifically, scalping? Because today’s Burning Man community has degenerated into an elitist social clique, an exclusive country club for self-righteous popular brats who resent the idea that unpopular kids with enough money might buy their way into their privileged social circle. Ewww! Gag me with a spoon!!!
The fact that the Burning Man community resents scalping shows it’s hypocrisy with regard to its first principle, radical inclusion. The success of the Burning Man event has made it a commodity. Therefore, people who lack the social capital to crony a ticket (but have sufficient financial capital) should not be discouraged from experiencing the event.
Unfortunately, success has ruined the magic of the Burning Man event while its organizers laugh all the way to the bank. Like the dirty Wall Street bankers, has the Burning Man community become elitist insiders who subvert Capitalism for their own benefit?
you're obviously not Annunkhaki.
why don't you and your inferior DNA go fuck yourself.
Frida Be You & Me
- theCryptofishist
- Posts: 40312
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
- Burning Since: 2017
- Location: In Exile
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
Wait a minute... Where's the "radical inclusion" if only the rich can go. They have their own event, anyway. Bohemian Grove.GenghisComm wrote:The fact that the Burning Man community resents scalping shows it’s hypocrisy with regard to its first principle, radical inclusion. The success of the Burning Man event has made it a commodity. Therefore, people who lack the social capital to crony a ticket (but have sufficient financial capital) should not be discouraged from experiencing the event.
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
- Lonesomebri
- Posts: 2890
- Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:54 pm
- Burning Since: 2024
- Camp Name: CAMP THREAT
- Location: NorCal
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
"subvert Capitalism for their own benefit"
Almost missed this line the first dozen times around, classic.........
Almost missed this line the first dozen times around, classic.........
Camp THREAT founder. BRCCP core disgruntled member. Burner. Setting fires since 1974. https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id ... tid=ZbWKwL
"If this is the best of all possible worlds, what are the others?"
- Voltaire
"If this is the best of all possible worlds, what are the others?"
- Voltaire
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
Pure Capitalism = Somali Piracy
-
LegendZero
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 pm
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
Is this a volunteering opportunity?Savannah wrote:Why have I no minion, then?BBadger wrote:They're just the entourage of the kakistocracy that lords over Burning Man.Savannah wrote:For an event allegedly suffering from cronyism, there sure are a @#$%-ton of virgins. (Burning Blog estimates 40%).
- GenghisComm
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:27 pm
- Location: Boulder, CO
- Contact:
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
You can buy a ticket for less than $650. That's hardly rich. For those on limited budgets, it just means organizing your life and being a little more useful to others so you can earn some extra cash. Mow a few lawns, pick up a part-time job, or invest in an oil company that pays big dividends. Oooh. There's that evil Capitalism again.theCryptofishist wrote:Wait a minute... Where's the "radical inclusion" if only the rich can go. They have their own event, anyway. Bohemian Grove.GenghisComm wrote:The fact that the Burning Man community resents scalping shows it’s hypocrisy with regard to its first principle, radical inclusion. The success of the Burning Man event has made it a commodity. Therefore, people who lack the social capital to crony a ticket (but have sufficient financial capital) should not be discouraged from experiencing the event.
- BBadger
- Posts: 6073
- Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
- Burning Since: 2010
- Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
Weren't you the one saying that after 10 years you've finally gotten your life's shit together with the means to attend? Well then go buy your $650 ticket and be done with it. After all it's such a paltry premium in your eyes. Then you can witness first-hand all the rampant "cronyism" that you claim exists, despite having no proof or experience in the matter. Or don't. I don't think we'd miss you. Make 10 years into forever.
Anyway, we're intimately aware of how capitalism works. Tickets will sell at what the market will bear. The main goal of not buying from scalpers is to undermine the market for scalped tickets especially since it's in its infancy. This is no affront to capitalism; we're just leveraging our own resources to ensure our event continues to operate in the way we want it to. But of course you're too bitter to realize that, and think it's some vast elitist conspiracy.
Anyway, we're intimately aware of how capitalism works. Tickets will sell at what the market will bear. The main goal of not buying from scalpers is to undermine the market for scalped tickets especially since it's in its infancy. This is no affront to capitalism; we're just leveraging our own resources to ensure our event continues to operate in the way we want it to. But of course you're too bitter to realize that, and think it's some vast elitist conspiracy.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens
Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.
Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.
- Lonesomebri
- Posts: 2890
- Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:54 pm
- Burning Since: 2024
- Camp Name: CAMP THREAT
- Location: NorCal
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
Poor people need to organize their lives better... and you don't even realize how elitist (uncaring, unrealistic, petty, derogatory, belittling, offensive) that suggestion is, do you? No one here is paying for your input, go make yourself useful to somebody.GenghisComm wrote:You can buy a ticket for less than $650. That's hardly rich. For those on limited budgets, it just means organizing your life and being a little more useful to others so you can earn some extra cash. Mow a few lawns, pick up a part-time job, or invest in an oil company that pays big dividends. Oooh. There's that evil Capitalism again.
Camp THREAT founder. BRCCP core disgruntled member. Burner. Setting fires since 1974. https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id ... tid=ZbWKwL
"If this is the best of all possible worlds, what are the others?"
- Voltaire
"If this is the best of all possible worlds, what are the others?"
- Voltaire
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
The fuck are you talking about? Investing for dividends? What are you, some kind of retiree? Clearly you aren't an actual investment specialist, not with that kind of garbage coming out of your mouth.GenghisComm wrote: You can buy a ticket for less than $650. That's hardly rich. For those on limited budgets, it just means organizing your life and being a little more useful to others so you can earn some extra cash. Mow a few lawns, pick up a part-time job, or invest in an oil company that pays big dividends. Oooh. There's that evil Capitalism again.
BBadger wrote: Anyway, we're intimately aware of how capitalism works. Tickets will sell at what the market will bear. The main goal of not buying from scalpers is to undermine the market for scalped tickets especially since it's in its infancy. This is no affront to capitalism; we're just leveraging our own resources to ensure our event continues to operate in the way we want it to.
Agreed, capitalism works both ways; there is a producer and a consumer side.
- Ugly Dougly
- Posts: 17612
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:31 am
- Burning Since: 1996
- Location: เชียงใหม่
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
If you have a ticket to Burning Man, aren't you truly rich? And if you miss it, aren't you indeed poor?GenghisComm wrote:You can buy a ticket for less than $650. That's hardly rich.
-
pink
- Posts: 1376
- Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:30 am
- Burning Since: 2005
- Camp Name: Retrofrolic
- Location: Stagecoach, NV
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
+1000Ugly Dougly wrote:If you have a ticket to Burning Man, aren't you truly rich? And if you miss it, aren't you indeed poor?GenghisComm wrote:You can buy a ticket for less than $650. That's hardly rich.
I'm not a slut, I'm good time floozy!
Re: Is Cronyism really better than Capitalism?
I'm rich! I'm rich!
I'm the MAN in a truck, burner who is stuck, you're in luck! I'll whip out my BIG tow chain and not charge you, not even one lousy buck!