Politics and religion ........

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:44 pm

I took this from another thread and thought it might make a decent thread.

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 4329#84329

So here it is......

What amazes me about Politics and religion is how the followers of both will quote for each.......... and not realize or cannot figure out how to understand the paraphrase.......... “for lack of better words”........ Will quote from each.......... and take literally……well….take for example…..”you gotta “fight for your right”………and not figure out that maybe.............. you don’t need to physically fight ..........but mentally “fight for your right”………

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:09 pm

And not hurt anybody.........

and............

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:43 am

it is okay to disagree, but you don't have to be disagreeable when you do it...

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:47 am

and as a side note, i don't believe your original point on this thread, as well as others, was well developed... please keep trying.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:43 am

Simply Joel wrote:and as a side note, i don't believe your original point on this thread, as well as others, was well developed... please keep trying.

It's been thought about....so much so that I wanted to get the whole concept/idea/thought up there so I would'nt forget it.

You gotta figure it out.

If you can't .......oh well.

I'll expand later.

I'm working now.

(check time.)

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:14 am

DVD Burner wrote:I'll expand later.

will you contract as well?

expand/contract/expand/contract, repeat process

primate · Post by **primate** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:32 am

Maybe what DVD meant to say, but had such a hard time putting into words. Although I certainly don't want to speak for him. Is that what is so disturbing especially lately about politics and religion is that the two have become so incestuos that it is difficult to see where the line that seperates them exists.
Another ugly trend is that our fearless (and ignorant) leader has stopped saying what he believes in when he makes stump speeches, but instead uses key words to "signal" his beliefs. So he will say things like " I beleive in a culture of life" thus signalling to the anti-choice movement that he is on their side. But, in this way he does not alienate those members of his party who don't necessarily agree with him on that point.

Of course he isn't the only politician that is courting the "christian right".
He is however very adamant about his belief that he is doing the work that God told him to do.
Although, I have no problem with people speaking to God, I do have a problem when God starts talking back. Usually those people are on 14th street in D.C. collecting change, not living in the Whitehouse.

Finally, there seems to be this feeling that we must fight everything. During the 80's it was a "war on drugs". There always has to be some war or battle. I think the book " The hand maids tale" addressed the dynamic between controlling people with fear and having an on going war. And I think most politicians (Clinton exempted) have used it to their advantage. Bush however has taken that to new extremes, by userhing in harmful and poorly thought out and worded legislation, like the patriot act. The problem with this is that ultimately it is more difficult to have poor legislation removed once it is in place than it is to keep it from being enacted in the first place. Sadly it will take more than 4 years once Bush is gone to undo the damage that he has done to the psyche of our country, our relationship with our allies, and to rebuild our economy after his misguided and irresponsible tax cuts.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:52 am

i must concur and comment on your statement; "Finally, there seems to be this feeling that we must fight everything."

Amen, brother (irony intended)

Prior to losing the war on drugs,
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lib ... sicfax.htm

there was the war on inflation
http://www.muhammadspeaks.com/Waroninflationtoon.html
http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/cent ... _rs_05.htm
http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/ ... g00142.htm
http://www.worldbank.org/research/inter ... /posen.pdf
http://www.imes.boj.or.jp/english/publi ... 4-E-15.pdf

in the sixties, the war on poverty, if my memory serves me correctly…
http://www.lexisnexis.com/academic/2upa ... overty.asp
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1964 ... verty.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Poverty

and I don’t believe there was a truce ever signed for any of these wars.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:35 pm

I'm back for a few days and eloquently put primate.

Both of you are close to what I was trying to state.

To clarify and most likely repeat what I stated above:

How is it that politicians and the religious or just people in general feel that fighting for your rights or fighting for what you believe in or just fighting for whatever; feel that the only way to fight is with fists/guns or bombs and not with their brains?

In so many of the readings/littérateur that both politicians, religious individuals and the militants read and use as guidelines,
they always choose the most physical and violent ways as a solution or instructions given by their "book" of choice says to do,
instead of thinking that maybe what their "Bible" meant in saying: "you have to fight" is meaning, mentally or as in "using your head" to get what it is you want.

My grammar might not be up to snuff but does what I just wrote explain what I mean any better? Can anyone explain this any better?

I was just thinking that if a few intelligent minds here on eplaya can put in words what I've been trying to say in a better phrase, that simpler minds could understand, I dont know....maybe there could be better explanations of why it is man needs to physically fight at all.

Grant you this is not an easy thread to decipher ( maybe it's just my writing.

) but hey, eplaya is Burningman and I have hope for BRC to be an excellent example/model for the rest of the world. I know it sounds far fetched but……
Not only that, I was thinking that since DM started going in this direction with his thread : Anything, everything & more........................ this thread just might be a good place to start before going back to posting on his thread and taking his thread to another level.

Plus.....what the heck.....the title of this thread can go any direction anyone wants to take it within the context.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:38 pm

I meant to elaborate more on primate's point on "the way words are used" just for Joel's amusment but that will take some more thought wich I dont quite have the time for right now. I want to catch up with the rest of the threads I've missed this week.

calsur · Post by **calsur** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:26 am

Weekend release from jail? To give the other prisoners some time off?

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 1:43 am

Sometimes I wish.

With some of the problems clients can come up with......and then I really should'nt complain. I'm working.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 4:43 am

DVD Burner wrote:I meant to elaborate more on primate's point on "the way words are used" just for Joel's amusment but that will take some more thought wich I dont quite have the time for right now. I want to catch up with the rest of the threads I've missed this week.

www.ask.com for all your spelling and definition needs...

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 4:44 am

DVD Burner wrote:I'm back for a few days and eloquently put primate.

Both of you are close to what I was trying to state.

To clarify and most likely repeat what I stated above:

How is it that politicians and the religious or just people in general feel that fighting for your rights or fighting for what you believe in or just fighting for whatever; feel that the only way to fight is with fists/guns or bombs and not with their brains?

In so many of the readings/littérateur that both politicians, religious individuals and the militants read and use as guidelines,
they always choose the most physical and violent ways as a solution or instructions given by their "book" of choice says to do,
instead of thinking that maybe what their "Bible" meant in saying: "you have to fight" is meaning, mentally or as in "using your head" to get what it is you want.

My grammar might not be up to snuff but does what I just wrote explain what I mean any better? Can anyone explain this any better?

I was just thinking that if a few intelligent minds here on eplaya can put in words what I've been trying to say in a better phrase, that simpler minds could understand, I dont know....maybe there could be better explanations of why it is man needs to physically fight at all.

Grant you this is not an easy thread to decipher ( maybe it's just my writing. ) but hey, eplaya is Burningman and I have hope for BRC to be an excellent example/model for the rest of the world. I know it sounds far fetched but……
Not only that, I was thinking that since DM started going in this direction with his thread : Anything, everything & more........................ this thread just might be a good place to start before going back to posting on his thread and taking his thread to another level.

Plus.....what the heck.....the title of this thread can go any direction anyone wants to take it within the context.

and just for argument sake, how about questioning Islamist and the use of the Koran as a religious as well as political tool.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:24 am

Simply Joel wrote: and just for argument sake, how about questioning Islamist and the use of the Koran as a religious as well as political tool.

All religion needs to be questioned. I exclude none.

They all should be held accountable for the atrocities they’ve done over the centuries. Mostly out of ignorance but in addition mostly due to a hefty "GREED" of money and power.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:32 pm

http://www.brightpathvideo.com/Lakoff.ram

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:40 am

The war metaphor, the fight metaphor. Only rarely do these signify a resort to actual violence.

To 'fight' the 'war' on poverty, they threw money at the problem. Not fists.

To fight the 'war on illiteracy, they used TV ads and awareness programs...and they threw money at it.

The 'war on drugs' is fought with laws, information campaigns, money

Where is the recouse to violence? There is no actual 'war'

The 'war' metaphor has been used in the hope of garnering the kind of support for the effort shown in WW2. It's used to get you to show group support and morale. It's used to try to re-incarnate that national spirit that defeated nazism.

Needless to say, for not a small part of the population, the ploy hasn't worked.

But to leap from the use of those terms, to thinking that the politicians and religious leaders who use them are advocating actual violence is just silly.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:54 am

lurker wrote:The 'war' metaphor has been used in the hope of garnering the kind of support for the effort shown in WW2. It's used to get you to show group support and morale. It's used to try to re-incarnate that national spirit that defeated nazism.

I agree with this point... and unfortunately... the "war" metaphor is over-used to the point of flaccidity

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:39 am

... many things have been overused to the point of flaccidity...

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:46 am

samtzu wrote:... many things have been overused to the point of flaccidity...

speaking for thyself, i see...

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:38 pm

lurker wrote:The war metaphor, the fight metaphor. Only rarely do these signify a resort to actual violence.

To 'fight' the 'war' on poverty, they threw money at the problem. Not fists.

To fight the 'war on illiteracy, they used TV ads and awareness programs...and they threw money at it.

The 'war on drugs' is fought with laws, information campaigns, money

Where is the recouse to violence? There is no actual 'war'.

Proof, Just because one has money doe'nt mean they are smart.

(which is kinda sorta my point.)

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:55 pm

So Like......does anyone still feel that the elections have nothing to do with Politics and religion ?

TheMuse · Post by **TheMuse** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:30 pm

http://notmypresident.tribe.net/

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:24 am

TheMuse wrote:http://notmypresident.tribe.net/

you are welcome to leave and live in any country of your choice...

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:37 am

Simply Joel wrote:
TheMuse wrote:http://notmypresident.tribe.net/
you are welcome to leave and live in any country of your choice...

What does any of this have to do with Politics and religion ........

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:51 am

Yeah I kinda figured that Joel would'nt be smart enough to respond to my question. Yeah I saw Joel online and disapear like he always does and go to another topic/thread so he would not have to confront the reality of what my OP was. And to top it off it would have to be that it would be a topic that I brought up awhile ago that would be true.

As usual.

Cali.....Boy....You are not much of anything........Just thought I would add that in for added measure.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:52 am

DVD Burner wrote:Yeah I kinda figured that Joel would'nt be smart enough to respond to my question. Yeah I saw Joel online and disapear like he always does and go to another topic/thread so he would not have to confront the reality of what my OP was. And to top it off it would have to be that it would be a topic that I brought up awhile ago that would be true.

As usual.

Cali.....Boy....You are not much of anything........Just thought I would add that in for added measure.

DVD Burner wrote:After all I did post on eplaya that politics and religion was bullshit.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:53 am

Let me guess....All Joel will have is my grammar.

Weak. As always.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:54 am

Oh ....Joel is awake.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:56 am

So let me guess.......Joel is into lots of bombs...(unless it's comming his way) and fear of God.